Capitalism: A Dish Best Served Cold

[hipeter924]

For the most part, the average capitalist is simply not interested in exploitation. Remember, he is capitalizing on a need and filling it to the satisfaction of himself and his customer. He wants his customer to be satisfied so they tell their friends, come to do business again, help him to grow as capitalist. The liberal considers all capitalism exploitation. Hence, the greedy capitalist meme.

Greed has no place in a capitalist operation. The emphasis is on profit. Liberals will argue since the emphasis is on profit there is certainly greed. However, this fails to acknowledge how capitalism works. Again, the capitalist is interested in a fair mutual exchange to the satisfaction of himself and his customer. He makes a profit, as much as possible, but the customer is satisfied as well. If his customer leaves the transaction feeling as if they didn't get a fair deal, it opens the door to other prospective capitalists who compete for the business. A greedy capitalist soon finds his customers being served by a less greedy capitalist.

Actually, exploitation is not seen as a negative in capitalism (rather a neutral act), that you actually concede exploitation is a negative is silly. Needs and wants are as a result of the physical and cultural environment, and differ from society to society, hence the need for advertising to promote products people then 'want' or 'need'.

Exploitation is an act of trade whereby one party takes advantage of the other, under capitalism essentially an individual/group holds lesser or greater value to a good or service - thus one party of the deal suffers 'exploitation' as according to their point of view their applied value to a good or service was lesser or greater than the other party held it to be. Under capitalism 'exploitation' is central to the system, as it allows the market to set the prices of goods and services (and labor). Under communism, 'exploitation' is deemed a negative, as all the benefits/consequences under that economic system must be shared rather than have extremes of economic loss or gain.

On greed, it is an inevitable consequence of human behavior. Every economic system prioritizes values, under capitalism the top value is wealth with secondary values like 'love', 'happiness', 'compassion', and so on, under ideal communism (where money is removed) it is utilitarian 'pleasure' or 'good'.

Capitalists seek monetary value on the premise that it can provide goods and services to improve themselves or others, as well as provide entertainment and health to their lives. Unfortunately, humans can prioritize a value too highly, hence you get people that value the benefit for themselves in a trade above the welfare of others - like Scrooge in A Christmas Carol.

Sometimes people have the choice in the market to pick another employer, or use another good or service provider, but we don't live under a true 'free market' so instead of true freedom of choice for the consumer the market is mostly made up of monopolies, and employees are rarely given the choice to negotiate working conditions (which led to unionization as conditions worsened in factories during the industrial revolution).

 

[Boss]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

 

[Bfgrn]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

 

[gipper]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm a lot better. Give me your best shot. You advocate a failed system. I advocate cleaning up the system that has raised the standard of living for all human beings. You advocate giving up liberty for a centralized state, which has failed everywhere and everytime.....I advocate the opposite. Bring it.....

Only failed system I see advocated here is Corporatism, one that can only exist with massive amounts of corporate welfare and public assistance and foolish free trade treaties.

Time for something better.

 

[JoeB131]

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Hmmm. Why do I think it's MY right? Last time I checked, I lived in a DEMOCRACY. If we vote to limit what kind of damage the Corporatists and Plutocrats do, guess what, they have to learn to deal.

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

I don't look at the Free Market with the religious awe you do. Nor do I wait for market forces to inflict some kind of economic Karma on the Capitalist AFTER he's fucked me over. Has that happened? Yup. A lot of the bad actors I've dealt with over the years had their companies go down in flames because they were assholes. Did that do me any good? Not really.

 

[Bfgrn]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

 

[JoeB131]

It has always bothered me that "Freedom" on the right wing has become "the right to use your wealth and power to abuse others" .

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalists seek monetary value on the premise that it can provide goods and services to improve themselves or others, as well as provide entertainment and health to their lives. Unfortunately, humans can prioritize a value too highly, hence you get people that value the benefit for themselves in a trade above the welfare of others - like Scrooge in A Christmas Carol.

That's true enough and having been in business now for 28 years I can say with certainty that the greediest people I've done business with are liberals. They are cheap beyond belief. They seem to think they are special and deserve price breaks and don't give a flying fuck about you making a decent living. It's all lip service. They love spending your money but hate spending their own.

 

[Youch]

I'm a lot better. Give me your best shot. You advocate a failed system. I advocate cleaning up the system that has raised the standard of living for all human beings. You advocate giving up liberty for a centralized state, which has failed everywhere and everytime.....I advocate the opposite. Bring it.....

Only failed system I see advocated here is Corporatism, one that can only exist with massive amounts of corporate welfare and public assistance and foolish free trade treaties.

Time for something better.

Shall I repeat myself, or did you understand the first time? Cuz we seem to be getting closer to an agreement.

 

[gipper]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

Can we agree that Obama has enriched the most wealthy people in our nation, with his economic policies, while harming the rest of the nation's people? He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites. He, like his predecessors, is owned by those wealthy elites, and must do their bidding.

 

[JoeB131]

[


Shall I repeat myself, or did you understand the first time? Cuz we seem to be getting closer to an agreement.

No, i understood you perfectly well. It's too bad the system you belive in with benevolent free markets doesn't exist.

Capitalism is the belief the worst people doing things for the worst reasons produces a good result.

 

[Bfgrn]

... I see a difference between profit and greed.

Profit is a reasonable return on your investment of time, ingenuity or resources.

Greed is taking far more than you need or deserve, usually by cheating the people who use your services or the people who actually did the hard work.

And seeing that as destructive isn't "insane". It's actually kind of rational, as no good ever comes of greed at that level.

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

Can we agree that Obama has enriched the most wealthy people in our nation, with his economic policies, while harming the rest of the nation's people? He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites. He, like his predecessors, is owned by those wealthy elites, and must do their bidding.

Enriched them by raising their taxes?

 

[gipper]

Again, I'll keep making the same simple point, a greedy capitalist soon finds himself replaced by a less greedy capitalist. You keep talking about what the capitalist needs or deserves at the cost of the consumer or employee as if the capitalist gets to determine that all on his own. Is someone forcing you to buy a product or service? Is someone forcing you to do a job you feel you are underpaid for?

Why is it that you think it's YOUR right to decide what is a "reasonable return?" Have you taken any of the risks? Did you make any sacrifices? And if you believe there is a more reasonable return achieved by paying higher wages or lowering cost to consumers, why haven't you gone into business to put the greedy capitalist out of business?

Again, in a free market capitalist system, the capitalist has the objective of making the most profit possible by providing a good or service to a willing, buying consumer, who is mutually satisfied with the transaction. If he attempts to charge too much, another capitalist competitor will charge less and get the business. If he doesn't pay employees well enough, they quit and go to work for the other capitalist who pays more.

You see, it is actually the forces of a free market capitalist system which counteracts "greed" for the most part. Are there still greedy people? Of course there are, there will always be, we can't ever eliminate all greed. It is actually when we move away from a free market system we see "greed" exacerbated. Power over the capitalist prompts greed in those who hold the power.

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

Can we agree that Obama has enriched the most wealthy people in our nation, with his economic policies, while harming the rest of the nation's people? He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites. He, like his predecessors, is owned by those wealthy elites, and must do their bidding.

Enriched them by raising their taxes?

As I feared. You are just another partisan hack.

 

[hipeter924]

He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites.

Can agree with that part. Though the Democratic Party email campaign was awful this year, makes you want the Democrats to lose the Senate so you don't get any invites to competitions to see Obama at BBQ's, Dinners and so on if you donate 'x' amount. I loved the fine print which stated you have to pay for the dinner/BBQ/food/transport when you get there, and are party slaves till they tell you that you can leave.

 

[Bfgrn]

Your understanding of capitalism is laced with fatal flaws. It is infantile, foolish and a fairy tale.

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilization and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community.

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realize that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

Under global capitalism the world is ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers, money managers, and hedge-fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality that sends exchange rates and stock prices into wild gyrations unrelated to any underlying economic reality. With reckless abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell corporations, and hire and fire corporate CEOs--holding the most powerful politicians and corporate managers hostage to their interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own. When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to make up their losses with cries that the financial skies will fall if they are forced to suffer the market's discipline.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism's relationship to democracy and the market economy is much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energies it expropriates. Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the cancerous cells deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the societies it infests.

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

Can we agree that Obama has enriched the most wealthy people in our nation, with his economic policies, while harming the rest of the nation's people? He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites. He, like his predecessors, is owned by those wealthy elites, and must do their bidding.

Enriched them by raising their taxes?

As I feared. You are just another partisan hack.

I'm not a huge fan of Obama. But the difference between today's Democratic Party and the GOP is very stark. The GOP and their conservative doctrinaire has destroyed this country and our economy over the last 45 years. I am a JFK liberal who is old enough to remember the country liberals and Democrats created from the New Deal through the Great Society. It is really sad how far we've fallen...

Hopefully Hayek is right...


"Conservatism, though a necessary element in any stable society, is not a social program; in its paternalistic, nationalistic and power adoring tendencies it is often closer to socialism than true liberalism; and with its traditionalistic, anti-intellectual, and often mystical propensities it will never, except in short periods of disillusionment, appeal to the young and all those others who believe that some changes are desirable if this world is to become a better place."
Friedrich August von Hayek-The Road to Serfdom

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm not a huge fan of Obama. But the difference between today's Democratic Party and the GOP is very stark. The GOP and their conservative doctrinaire has destroyed this country and our economy over the last 45 years.

LOL

 

[gipper]

You are confusing capitalism with fascism, corporatism, or crony capitalism.

The economic system you want, is what we have.

Stop your bitching.

The one who is confused is you. What we have is fascism, corporatism and crony capitalism, what we need is a TRUE free market economy. It is amazing just how brainwashed the Wall Street banksters have control of folks like you.

But what should we expect from a crowd like yours....

gipper and friends...

Can we agree that Obama has enriched the most wealthy people in our nation, with his economic policies, while harming the rest of the nation's people? He, like nearly all his recent predecessors, is all about obtaining huge sums of money to fund his campaigns and his political party from the wealthy elites. He, like his predecessors, is owned by those wealthy elites, and must do their bidding.

Enriched them by raising their taxes?

As I feared. You are just another partisan hack.

I'm not a huge fan of Obama. But the difference between today's Democratic Party and the GOP is very stark. The GOP and their conservative doctrinaire has destroyed this country and our economy over the last 45 years. I am a JFK liberal who is old enough to remember the country liberals and Democrats created from the New Deal through the Great Society. It is really sad how far we've fallen...

Hopefully Hayek is right...


"Conservatism, though a necessary element in any stable society, is not a social program; in its paternalistic, nationalistic and power adoring tendencies it is often closer to socialism than true liberalism; and with its traditionalistic, anti-intellectual, and often mystical propensities it will never, except in short periods of disillusionment, appeal to the young and all those others who believe that some changes are desirable if this world is to become a better place."
Friedrich August von Hayek-The Road to Serfdom

Then it is apparent you do not know what JFK believed and promoted or you are lying.

JFK cut taxes, was strong on defense, and believed in limited constitutional government. All things the D party no longer promotes and for that matter, neither does the R party.

 

[Dot Com]

[

You've yet to put up a cogent argument against his position.

And that you failed in corporate American does not equate to the necessity of the rest of us drowning is socialistic mire and misery and failure.

Your failure should not impact my family. Is that what you advocate? That I succumb to the failed philosophy of something-other-than-a-free-market?

S0rry, dude, after 2008, all discussions for "Capitalism" are over.

And frankly, as I've said, you guys already brought the socialism.

When the Waltons are the richest people in the country, but their employees are forced to go on food stamps, section 8 and Medicaid, the Socialism is already here.

or fascism where the corporations tell the gov't what laws to write & or enforce and there is a revolving door between *cough* finance & gov't

Wal-Mart s dependence on food stamps revealed - LA Times

 

[n0spam4me]

Part of the problem ( and this is NOT a "right" vs "left" issue)
is the fact that people somehow feel compelled to BUY STUFF,
even if you KNOW that your life would have only marginal ( if that ... )
incremental improvement by say purchasing the latest cell-phone or somekinda gadget, people rush out to the shops and BUY, BUY, BUY! because its what we do.
Consumerism is NOT sustainable! think about it!