Capitalism Guarantees Rising Inequality

[P@triot]

The difference is the private sector has zero power over me. The government (unfortunately) now has nearly unlimited power over me. And that is the difference chief.

If I don't like the way McDonald's conducts their business, I can tell them to go fuck themselves. Think I can do that with the IRS? Why don't you try it and let me know how it works out...

I don't know why the rule of thumb is something doesn't have power over you if it doesn't hold a gun to your head.

Because it doesn't....

Apparently no one has studied forms of coercion. They can be entirely subtle and out of reach. Hence you think you're free from the private sector since they don't have a gun to your head but you're not.

No, weak-minded lap-dogs like you are prone to "coercion". Strong-willed, strong-minded people like myself and my fellow conservatives are not coerced.

You have given up your liberty for the private corporations to produce your food and chop your wood for the convenience of paying someone else to do it and even deliver it to your door step.

Uh, no I haven't. I've surrendered no liberty because I choose to purchase my firewood as oppose to chopping it myself. I know this because there have been times when I chose not to purchase my firewood and did in fact chop it myself. Can you choose not to pay the IRS junior?

You accept convenience in exchange for your utter dependence on them. HMMM. Doesn't sound very free to me. I know you can go buy a piece of land and create independence but you won't do that. Why? Because the private sector corporations have convinced you their authority over resources is convenient, too convenient to ever give up. So when you are in a downtown area what do you see? And endless sea of ads. If those ads weren't there do you think you'd buy those same products? This is a study that cannot be done since all areas of commerce are inundated with ads.

Sure, on weak-minded people like you. As far as the private sector, they haven't "convinced" me of shit and they have no "authority" over me junior. They might over you, but they don't over me. I have decided for myself what is convenient and at no time do I surrender my liberty for it. When I buy a cheeseburger from McDonald's, my liberty is not compromised. The fact that you think it is proves just what an unhinged wackadoo you are....

So you can say "I'm free" but you've never not depended 100% on their provisions. As for me I have lived in a barn outside corporate advertising influence for months at a time and you know what, I experienced a freedom that does not exist in your world (or my current world).

Yeah - it's called LSD junior. And it's not "freedom" - it's a terrible reaction to a powerful drug. You're the only one not free due to your addiction. Now smoke another one, maaaaaaaaan....

Do we really think companies would continue to spend trillions of dollars on advertising if it didn't work? The fact that you DO buy all those products advertised is sufficient reason to think it plays a coercive role in your life. Is there a gun to your head? NO. Does there need to be to get you to do something? Ever heard of peer pressure? Non-violent coercion? These are perhaps more effective than holding a gun to your head BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE FREE!

Hey junior, if a product is not advertised, how would I know about it? I never heard of an iPad until Apple created it and then advertised it.

How ironic that the LSD hippie thinks he's the only free one when in fact, he's the only one with a master (and sadly, the master is just a chemical).

 

[P@triot]

Quite the contrary, liberty can only exist where private property exists. I have no freedom when I'm standing on someone else's land. I'm only truly free when it's my land and nobody else has any rights to it.

You have justified private property to yourself and I give you that. But saying your standing on someone elses land ASSUMES private property is INHERENT. So I guess before John Locke wrote Two Treatises on Government people simply did not have freedom?

You are using tautology to justify your belief. Indeed, if we assume private property is real, it is indeed real. I'm not arguing for that. I know private property is "real" but you are committing the fallacy of reification if you think private property has always existed and exists independent of humanity. Private property depends on humans agreeing on private property.

Conclusion: you're a typical snake-oil salesman who thinks he can sell the people on communism through kumbaya. Sorry chief, America is not buying what you're sellling.

Let me refer you back to the disclaimer. I said this doesn't work for us today. I agree with you but you want to assert your dominance. So what do you do? Spray names and actually agree with me by saying you disagree. I know this won't work. why? Because of egos like yours. So instead we are stuck with government to defend against your gun touting megalomania.

Again, you're the one who is so arrogant, you're declaring what others need.

There is nothing "megalomania" about me. I'm simply not an LSD-dropping hippie like you. I realize that evil exists in this world and the way I defeat it is by having a gun on me. Why is that "arrogant"?

One last thing - I have no "dominance" over you to assert. You're sitting safely somewhere else in the world chief. Calling your bullshit out for the bullshit that it is is not "asserting dominance". You're telling me my children don't belong to me. Sorry, I'm going to speak up when someone as arrogant as you tells me that my children don't belong to me.

 

[gnarlylove]

Your ego is larger than I could imagine. You are unaffected by any external forces. My god I bet bullets can't hurt you either the way you talk. Boy IFF only I could be as strong and determined as you. Maybe if I believe your nonsense I too can pull the wool over my face and believe coercion only happens when guns are involved.

You keep saying I'm wrong when I had no intention of that post applying to our current circumstances. In fact, it was the very first thing I said. Can you read or do you just refuse to understand I agree with you?

 

[P@triot]

Federal Reserve Bank Ownership

You probably should have read it before posting it....

But the banks don’t necessarily run the show. Nationally, the Federal Reserve System is led by a Board of Governors whose seven members are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

It was created by an act of Congress, it's run by people appointed by the president (and confirmed by the Senate), and it's "central". This can't be anymore clear.

 

[Contumacious]

Stranger still, is the inability of any of you to explain, how your governmentless society can protect private property, or protect citizens from each other, or from other societies.

.

Even more stranger still, is your inability to explain, how is it that you can not buy a firearm and defend yourself and yours.

Even more more more stranger still, is your inability to explain, what you intend to do different in order to prevent the government from again becoming a continuing criminal enterprise.

.

I am fairly adequately prepared to defend myself and my family from normal threats, but I am not prepared to defend my property from organized crime, a gang of thugs, or an invading army.

Now that we have done away with the strawman, why don't you explain how your desired world would protect your private property from those who would not hesitate to kill you and your family to take it?

Government will always become just as corrupt as the society that puts it in power and keeps it in power. Fifty years ago, Obama would already have been impeached and removed from office. Today, few seem to really care that the administration is corrupt.

Government is like fire, necessary and beneficial when carefully controlled, but cruel and highly destructive when out of control. That does not mean that we can do without government, any more than we can do without fire.

As a welfare/warfare state , at least 50% of the electorate is dependent on government largesse and those folks will look the other way when government bureaucrats are victimizing as happened to the Davidians.

09/11 occurred because the government has been all over creation meddling in the internal affairs of other nations and subsidizing genocide.

So we need government like we need a heart attack.

.

 

[KNB]

What happens without government?

 

[gnarlylove]

We don't know. But if we ended gov't today tis likely new power structures would take its place and probably dominate us worse than before. We need steady transition.

 

[RKMBrown]

Federal Reserve Bank Ownership

You probably should have read it before posting it....

But the banks don’t necessarily run the show. Nationally, the Federal Reserve System is led by a Board of Governors whose seven members are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

It was created by an act of Congress, it's run by people appointed by the president (and confirmed by the Senate), and it's "central". This can't be anymore clear.

Not only did I read it, but I also recognize that it supports everything I said.

Again, your confusion is based the terms federal and system. Is there a "system" yes. Just as with our system of taxes, there's a system that's supposed to be managed by the federal government. In the case of our tax system the IRS collects, and enforces the system. In the case of our central banking system, the fed is a private (non-profit) company that leads/runs the system we call the federal reserve system. You'll note when they try to deny it's private they say it's not a for profit private company. But it is most certainly a private company, with profits that they distribute to themselves and sometimes to the U.S. Treasury.

Again note the word system. Just as you would not call the IRS a "system" the fed is not a system either. Members of the federal reserve system are all private. Every single one of them.

All banks are subject to regulations. The banks in the banking cartel, aka. central banking cartel, aka federal reserve banks, are again all private, and are partially subject to regulations regarding the federal reserve banking system. Which BTW we are not auditing at all. We audit bank loans but not federal reserve banking system loans.

The board of governors is nothing more than a good ole boy club that acts as dignitaries for the banking cartel.

 

[bripat9643]

Apparently, you don't have an answer to the question, so you punt to the question of whether, or not, our government is still constitutional.

I am no fan of big government, and would love to be able to put our federal government back into the box it climbed out of. However, that does not lead me to conclude that we would be better off without government. A limited government is necessary to protect private property, protect citizens from one another, and protect the society from other societies.

That is your position my man. The government has the most might, the most weapons, and the biggest weapons and they determine who gets what and how much of it they get. They also de facto own every single piece of property in the USA since I have to pay tribute to them in order to pseudo-own a piece of property.

Strange you advocate the same thing you cry as foul

Stranger still, is the inability of any of you to explain, how your governmentless society can protect private property, or protect citizens from each other, or from other societies.

As I stated, I am not fond of a lot of government, but are we really in a situation where we only have a choice between overpowering government, and no government at all?

Perhaps you should all learn Russian or Chinese before you put this no government idea to the test.

I already explained it. Try reading the thread before spewing your ignorance into the forum.

 

[P@triot]

What happens without government?

You know what is worse than no government? Unconstitutional government...

I've yet to meet a conservative who didn't want government. We just want constitutional government (or the complete opposite of the oppressive, wasteful monstrosity Dumbocrats have created)

 

[bripat9643]

What happens without government?

Freedom and prosperity.

 

[P@triot]

Your ego is larger than I could imagine. You are unaffected by any external forces. My god I bet bullets can't hurt you either the way you talk. Boy IFF only I could be as strong and determined as you. Maybe if I believe your nonsense I too can pull the wool over my face and believe coercion only happens when guns are involved.

You keep saying I'm wrong when I had no intention of that post applying to our current circumstances. In fact, it was the very first thing I said. Can you read or do you just refuse to understand I agree with you?

Again, how is it "arrogant" to recognize that evil exists in the world and take the proper precautions to protect one's self against it? How is it "arrogant" to tell you that you can't tell me my children don't belong to me?

Only one of us has had the appalling arrogance to stand up and tell the world in a long winded diatribe what the world "needs" and it sure as hell wasn't me chief.

I advocate freedom. You advocate a communist utopia where you get to take from everyone else. Now tell me again how I'm "asserting dominance" over you....

 

[RKMBrown]

What happens without government?

Freedom and prosperity.

ROFL Who's gonna force your neighbor to take care of his trash? Who's gonna put your neighbor on trial when he shoots you for trying to force him to take care of the trash?

 

[Indeependent]

What happens without government?

Freedom and prosperity.

ROFL Who's gonna force your neighbor to take care of his trash?

Ayn Rand comes back from the dead and everybody become noble.

 

[RKMBrown]

Freedom and prosperity.

ROFL Who's gonna force your neighbor to take care of his trash?

Ayn Rand comes back from the dead and everybody become noble.

Trust but verify... give authority to government, but keep a check on their authority that they don't exceed or abuse the authority provided. This is not hard.

 

[gnarlylove]

I advocate freedom. You advocate a communist utopia where you get to take from everyone else. Now tell me again how I'm "asserting dominance" over you....

The difference between us is I hold two degrees in social theory and you are some HS grad on a message board. I'm not on USMB to deal with tautologists like you, we were having a theoretical discussion about complete and genuine liberty in an ideal society. Though my degrees have nothing to do with whose a better person, when it comes to understanding the mechanisms of society I know what I'm talking about and you spout TV ads. Have you read John Locke? David Hume? Hegel? Kant? Rousseau? Max Webber? Durkheim? Marx? Anyone? Oh you get your info from TV? There's your problem.

There is yet another difference in what's possible in America and what's ideal. Apparently you cannot conceive of there being a difference since you are so sure of yourself.

If you want a debate about liberty, my sig is the official definition of genuine liberty:
I am a fanatic lover of liberty, considering it the condition under which intelligence, dignity & human happiness can develop; not the purely formal liberty conceded, measured out & regulated by the State, an eternal lie which represents the privilege of some founded on the slavery of the rest; not the individualistic, egoistic liberty extolled by Rousseau and bourgeois liberalism, which considers the would-be rights of all represented by the State, which limits the rights of each. No, I mean the only kind of liberty worthy of the name, liberty that consists in the full development of all the powers that are latent in each person; liberty that recognizes no restrictions other than those determined by the laws of our own individual nature, which cannot be regarded as restrictions since these laws are not imposed by any outside legislator above us, but are inherent, forming the basis of our material, intellectual & moral being—they are the real & immediate conditions of our freedom.

 

[P@triot]

What happens without government?

Freedom and prosperity.

ROFL Who's gonna force your neighbor to take care of his trash? Who's gonna put your neighbor on trial when he shoots you for trying to force him to take care of the trash?

Why do you feel the need to force you neighbor to take care of his trash? His trash is his trash. As long as it's not in your yard, what do you care?

 

[P@triot]

I advocate freedom. You advocate a communist utopia where you get to take from everyone else. Now tell me again how I'm "asserting dominance" over you....

The difference between us is I hold two degrees in social theory and you are some HS grad on a message board. I'm not on USMB to deal with tautologists like you, we were having a theoretical discussion about complete and genuine liberty in an ideal society. Though my degrees have nothing to do with whose a better person, when it comes to understanding the mechanisms of society I know what I'm talking about and you spout TV ads. Have you read John Locke? David Hume? Hegel? Kant? Rousseau? Max Webber? Durkheim? Marx? Anyone? Oh you get your info from TV? There's your problem.

There is yet another difference in what's possible in America and what's ideal. Apparently you cannot conceive of there being a difference since you are so sure of yourself.

If you want a debate about liberty, my sig is the official definition of genuine liberty:
I am a fanatic lover of liberty, considering it the condition under which intelligence, dignity & human happiness can develop; not the purely formal liberty conceded, measured out & regulated by the State, an eternal lie which represents the privilege of some founded on the slavery of the rest; not the individualistic, egoistic liberty extolled by Rousseau and bourgeois liberalism, which considers the would-be rights of all represented by the State, which limits the rights of each. No, I mean the only kind of liberty worthy of the name, liberty that consists in the full development of all the powers that are latent in each person; liberty that recognizes no restrictions other than those determined by the laws of our own individual nature, which cannot be regarded as restrictions since these laws are not imposed by any outside legislator above us, but are inherent, forming the basis of our material, intellectual & moral being—they are the real & immediate conditions of our freedom.

First of all, I graduated from college junior.

Second, you continue to display your appalling arrogance. So you paid some institution to hand you a piece of paper. You really believe that makes you authorized to tell the world what it needs and what it doesn't need? Really?

Third, I'd be willing to bet I've read significantly more than you have in your life time junior.

Fourth, I do enjoy tv. Are you so arrogant in your liberal ideology that you believe there is no accurate and valuable information on television? Really? Because I've seen tons of very accurate documentaries, new "shows" (like 60 Minutes), and interviews which were chocked full of accurate information.

But hey, you smoked pot on a liberal campus with a bunch of other immature asshats and discussed the two pages you read of Karl Marx, so you are clearly qualified to rule the world....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

By your "logic", if we end outsourcing then American corporations will have to hire Americans again at a real wage, too, right? Because that option of exploiting cheap labor won't be available, right?

Oh, but companies outsource because of the HUGE tax burden, right? The MASSIVELY HUGE TAXES that corporations have to pay force those poor international conglomerates to pay foreign workers slave wages in order to make those record-breaking quarterly profits, right? Those poor, poor multibillion-dollar multinational corporations.

They're the real victims in all of this, right?

By your "logic", if we end outsourcing then American corporations will have to hire Americans again at a real wage, too, right?

How do you stop Ford from building a factory in Ireland or Kuwait?

Oh, but companies outsource because of the HUGE tax burden, right?

We do have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. And regulations continue to cost jobs.

But you keep supporting importing competition for our workers, cause that'll help.

You should try reading an interview with a CEO once in a while.
The entire interview.
Companies off-shore due to wages.
But that would be presuming you can read an article as opposed to simply shooting off your virtual mouth.

Wages are a part, just as taxes and idiotic (Obamacare-type) regulations are a part.

 

[RKMBrown]

Freedom and prosperity.

ROFL Who's gonna force your neighbor to take care of his trash? Who's gonna put your neighbor on trial when he shoots you for trying to force him to take care of the trash?

Why do you feel the need to force you neighbor to take care of his trash? His trash is his trash. As long as it's not in your yard, what do you care?

Glad you asked.

One of my neighbors sets off dynamite to dig for Austin stone. If he gets close to my creek he will fracture the creek bed. Too close and the rock frags could kill my kids. Govco limits his use of explosives.

If one of my neighbors decides to become a trash collector my property value will go to shit based on the view and smell.

We have contracts called property agreements regarding use of land. Throw out government and all property agreements are moot. There would be no point in buying property. You would just take what you can defend.