Capitalistic greed is the main problem in the U.S.

[Slade3200]

Another cop out answer... I've said multiple times that the government owns a big part of the problem. But you keep painting me with that ignorant partisan brush... I'm about done with you

I've said nothing of party. You promote a Marxist view of how society should run, I take you to task for that.

You made the absurdly ignorant claim that only the FDA can protect our food and drugs. I pointed out that first off, the FDA does a shitty job. It's a government agency staffed by public union hacks who are looking to cruise on the public's dime until they retire at 50. U/L on the other hand does a sterling job, it is after all private, and MUST perform in order to get paid. Capitalism saves lives Comrade, because capitalists must provide value in order for others to PAY them. Not so with socialists. Government hacks get paid regardless. No matter how many die, the FDA is in no danger of "losing a contract."

That I recognize you as part of the parasite class has no relevance on party.

I don't promote a Marxist view and I never said that only the FDA can protect our food and drugs... you make this shit up

 

[Uncensored2008]

You're an idiot.
Drug patent 8,870,827 expiration and generic entry

That's for the Epipen - a trade mark, not Epinephrine, retard. Read for content, what Mylan has is a delivery system.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

I don't promote a Marxist view and I never said that only the FDA can protect our food and drugs... you make this shit up

You DO grasp that your posts stay on the board, right?

Capitalistic greed is the main problem in the U.S.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The effect that the seatbelt law has had on save human life in auto accidents:

One seat belts don't "save a life" it prolongs it

Two it's bull shit that seat belt use had any effect on people's lives. in fact it makes people more reckless drivers.


Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts



John Adams, risk expert and emeritus professor of geography at University College London, was an early skeptic of the seat belt safety mantra. Adams first began to look at the numbers more than 25 years ago. What he found was that contrary to conventional wisdom, mandating the use of seat belts in 18 countries resulted in either no change or actually a net increase in road accident deaths.

How can that be? Adams' interpretation of the data rests on the notion of risk compensation, the idea that individuals tend to adjust their behavior in response to what they perceive as changes in the level of risk. Imagine, explains Adams, a driver negotiating a curve in the road. Let's make him a young male. He is going to be influenced by his perceptions of both the risks and rewards of driving a car. The considerations could include getting to work or meeting a friend for dinner on time, impressing a companion with his driving skills, bolstering his image of himself as an accomplished driver. They could also include his concern for his own safety and desire to live to a ripe old age, his feelings of responsibility for a toddler with him in a car seat, the cost of banging up his shiny new car or losing his license. Nor will these possible concerns exist in a vacuum. He will be taking into account the weather and the condition of the road, the amount of traffic and the capabilities of the car he is driving. But crucially, says Adams, this driver will also be adjusting his behavior in response to what he perceives are changes in risks. If he is wearing a seat belt and his car has front and side air bags and anti-skid brakes to boot, he may in turn drive a bit more daringly.

A seat belt prolonged my life twice; once saving me from serious injury and a second time from certain death.

That said, I'm against mandatory seat belt and helmet laws because it goes against God's Law of Evolution.

IIRC, 68% of all traffic deaths in Texas are from lack of wearing a seat belt despite laws requiring them. As Ron White once said, "You can't fix stupid". I wish we'd stop trying to do so with silly laws.

OTOH, as far as pharmaceutical drugs go, if I follow the directions on a box of medicine and it seriously injures me or kills a family member, then I should have the right to shoot the motherfucking snake-oil salesman marketing it. Therefore, it's either best to let people serve vigilante justice to snake-oil salesmen or set laws preventing snake-oil salesmen from being in business.

Another reckless driver


Check.


No such thing as a "car accident" it takes two to tangle.

Wow, can't argue with stupid...

Then don't argue with yourself..



Again no such thing as a car accident

Either you drive defensively and no car crash...


Or dive offensively and get in a car crash

Not that complicated is it?

Yeah, tell that to the millions that have been rear ended while stopped in traffic or sideswiped while in their lane, or injured passengers sitting in a car that is in an accident... Time to reevaluate your thinking dude, you are dead wrong on this one.

Don't cry and play the victim with me toots,


They didn't leave room ahead of them and was not watching the rearview mirror when stopped.

Hence not driving defensively .

And please side swiped?

I drove in chicago traffic for 22 years, nope watch your lanes, watch other vehicles , don't drive in packs.

 

[Dana7360]

EpiPen can go to hell. My friend has a shellfish allergy that leads to an anaphylactic reaction... Her throat closes up. She can't afford to buy an EpiPen and her insurance doesn't cover it. Further more they expire after a year so she would have to drop $600 for a pen that expires and needs to get tossed after only a year. Instead she doesn't have one and takes a risk every time she eats out. In the mean time the EpiPen execs and laughing their way to the bank

Mylan executives gave themselves raises as they hiked EpiPen prices

The patent on the drug in an epi pen and the mechanism itself should have run out a long time ago. All the FDA has to do is promise fast track approval for anyone who wants to make an equivalent product, and the manufacturer's hold on the market would wither away.

Yes, the company is greedy, but government regulations that make it next to impossible to field an equal product shares part of the blame. It's what creates the bottleneck in the first place.

The patent on the drug has run out. The mechanism that delivers the drug is fairly new. Are you against patents? The price of the product needs to regulated by the government. Stop screwing yourself with misguided conservative ideology and support more government regulations

The original epi-pen patent is over 50 years old.

EpiPen gives doses of life-saving epinephrine for nearly 50 years - IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law

Again, how do you regulate the price of a foreign manufactured product?

If you tell them they can only sell it for $100, they WILL STOP SHIPPING IT YOU BLITHERING IDIOT.

Negotiate a better price on the bulk rate...

That can't happen right now, at least for the government, because of the prescription drug law the republicans wrote and the bush boy signed.

It specifically prohibits the government from negotiating lower prices for drugs. It also prohibits drugs that were made in America and sent to Canada to be reimported to America. Canada has proper regulations on drugs, like most developed nations, so their prices are cheaper which makes reimporting them to America cheaper.

This whole problem would be solved with a few very simple steps. First start enforcing the anti trust laws. Then go back to what we used to do before reagan and conservatives removed the regulations and gave most R&D monies to the drug companies in the form of block grants. That money should be used at universities and in the public domain to develop medications that are free to the customer because they own it by the drugs being developed with tax dollars.

For example, when I was a child in the 60s and 70s, children were mostly vaccinated in school. Everyone lined up at either the gym or cafeteria and only those who already had the vaccination could get out of it. The vaccinations were free because our parent's tax dollars paid for the R&D and everyone owned it.

The result, some diseases were eradicated. Polio, small pox, rubella and other diseases were a thing of the past.

Now, because conservatives believe that the rich should get much richer, us tax payers still pay for that R&D but we don't own the products developed and we pay through the nose for the product. Which in the case of epipens, will result in people dying.

 

[Dana7360]

The price of the Epipen just went up 500%. It costs a dollar to make, and big pharma is charging $500.00 to save a child's life.

The cost of all drugs in the U.S. are ten times more than any other country.

Health insurance is high because of greed. Doctors and hospitals are some of the greediest.

And it's not just big pharma, it's big oil too. When oil was $140.00 a barrel, gas cost $4.00 a gallon. Now oil is three times less at $47.00 a barrel, and we still pay over $2,20 a gallon.

But the real big greed is the military industrial contractors. $600.00 for toilet seats.....$500.00 for coffee makers....and that's just the cheap stuff.

Greed is why we have a $17 trillion national debt.

Greed is why most crimes are committed. Most in prison are there because of greed.

Lawyers are greedy. NO money, you're guilty.

Politicians work less than six months a year for over $200,000.00 plus healthcare, paid vacations, free transportation, and full retirement after four years.

Remember all you 20, 30 & 40 somethings, you're gonna be old in the blink of an eye....and you're gonna pay through the wazoo. Promise.

wrong....government interference in the market causes the problem.....more companies making the pen means the price comes down and you even get a better pen....

What specifically is the government doing to prevent that from happening?

Over regulation by the FDA......

What regulations are preventing other companies from making a competing pen? Specifically... I'm tired of just hearing the R word with no specifics... Just saying it is over regulated means nothing

The fact that there is a generic epipen on the market right now shows that the person you're replying to doesn't know what they're talking about.

I buy that generic epipen. I switched over a year ago because the price of the non generic epipen started to skyrocket.

I buy 6 pens at a time for 25 dollars. But that's with my insurance covering most of it. I don't know what the cost is without insurance.

 

[Tehon]

You're an idiot.
Drug patent 8,870,827 expiration and generic entry

That's for the Epipen - a trade mark, not Epinephrine, retard. Read for content, what Mylan has is a delivery system.

It is a patent on the delivery system dummy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You're an idiot.
Drug patent 8,870,827 expiration and generic entry

That's for the Epipen - a trade mark, not Epinephrine, retard. Read for content, what Mylan has is a delivery system.

It is a patent on the delivery system dummy.

Derp..

 

[LaDexter]

Monopolies are the result of unregulated capitalism. Which isn't socialism. The only result of unregulated capitalism is monopolies and oligarchies. Which we're very close to right now. Thanks to conservative deregulation starting in the reagan years.

I don't know who is dumber, the above or the Trump supporters who insist that legalizing marijuana will bring about Armageddon.

 

[Dana7360]

You don't think there is a difference between entertainment and medicine?

Y'all are crazy, consumer products are one thing, the health and well being of our citizens, of all human beings, is something that is completely different. Not everybody needs a new Porsche or pair of air Jordan's, but if somebody is sick and suffering and we have the resources and ability to ease the pain or save a life then we sure as hell better do it.

In what regard?

Entertainment doesn't take decades of research and development to create, medicine does.

You Communists are killing the goose laying the golden eggs. Yes, you can nationalize Epipens and all other life saving drugs. You can crow about how GLORIOUS PEOPLES STATE gives to all what the running dog capitalist pigs would charge for.

Oh but that cancer treatment that the "greedy" drug companies were working on? It will never come about - because the only reason that the creators wracked their brains to makes these life saving marvels was to make a buck.

You Communists can steal what exists, and it's clear that you will - but it all stops here. There will be no more progress, because those with the talent and brains won't create knowing you will just steal anything they create.

This happens every time you greedy fucks get power. You steal everything that isn't tied down and then wonder why people quit producing?

Your world, the kleptocracy you are building, will never stand. It never does.

The founders of our nation must be communists in your eyes.

They wrote the constitution. In that document, they gave the government the power to regulate business.

If you don't like it then YOU must be the communist.

 

[healthmyths]

The price of the Epipen just went up 500%. It costs a dollar to make, and big pharma is charging $500.00 to save a child's life.

The cost of all drugs in the U.S. are ten times more than any other country.

Health insurance is high because of greed. Doctors and hospitals are some of the greediest.

And it's not just big pharma, it's big oil too. When oil was $140.00 a barrel, gas cost $4.00 a gallon. Now oil is three times less at $47.00 a barrel, and we still pay over $2,20 a gallon.

But the real big greed is the military industrial contractors. $600.00 for toilet seats.....$500.00 for coffee makers....and that's just the cheap stuff.

Greed is why we have a $17 trillion national debt.

Greed is why most crimes are committed. Most in prison are there because of greed.

Lawyers are greedy. NO money, you're guilty.

Politicians work less than six months a year for over $200,000.00 plus healthcare, paid vacations, free transportation, and full retirement after four years.

Remember all you 20, 30 & 40 somethings, you're gonna be old in the blink of an eye....and you're gonna pay through the wazoo. Promise.

BULLSHIT




The Lack of EpiPen Competitors is the FDA's Fault

There’s a new bout of outrage over an expensive medicine or medical treatment. While the good in question changes each time, the blame always seems to fall on greedy corporations who just aren’t regulated enough. Free markets and capitalism are the scapegoat, even when nothing remotely resembling unhampered markets in health care is in place in the United States.

EpiPen is sold by Mylan, and the price for a pack of two has increased from about $100 in 2007 to over $600 as of May 2016. Mylan has tried to quell the storm by pointing out that many of their customers pay nothing for the drug because of insurance. Their deflection has been unsuccessful.

The economist looks for competitors in cases like this. A firm cannot just willy-nilly raise their prices without a competing firm leaping in to give consumers what they want at a lower price. As it turns out, Mylan has a great friend who keeps would-be competitors out of the market, or at least makes it so difficult for them that they eventually go out of business. That friend is the FDA.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.

A French pharmaceutical company offered an electronic device that actually talks people through the steps of administering the drug, but it was recalled because of concerns about it delivering the required dose. Just this year, Teva Pharmaceutical’s attempt at bringing a generic epinephrine injector to market in the US was blocked by the FDA. Adrenaclick and Twinject were unable to get insurance companies on board and so discontinuedtheir injectors in 2012.

______----------________


In conclusion fuck the socialists, the fascists, the FDA


.

tough to criticize without the details of why it was rejected. If it didn't pass safety standards and was a risk to our public then it makes sense, right?

Epinephrine - the medicine --is NOT the issue


Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.


The issue is how to get from here

to here

.ABOLISH THE FASCISTIC FDA


.

With no FDA how do we prevent dangerous drugs from flooding the market?

I'm not doubting the the FDA creates a long approval process and has much room for better efficiency but I haven't heard one person site specifically what "red tape" measures are erroneous, per this discussion.

What if the generic epipens were failing and dangerous?

Wow! "How do we prevent dangerous drugs"???
Evil capitalist drug CEO: "let's sell this drug that will kill our customers! Throw us in jail. Cost us billions! Yea that's what we'll do!
Brilliant!

 

[Slade3200]

[

I don't promote a Marxist view and I never said that only the FDA can protect our food and drugs... you make this shit up

You DO grasp that your posts stay on the board, right?

Capitalistic greed is the main problem in the U.S.

Try reading slower... I posed a question, I didn't make a statement that the FDA was the only way to protect our food and drugs. Trying being less defensive, aggressive and attacking and more objective and open to discussion... It may provoke better debate and progression

 

[paulitician]

Drug the Sheeple from cradle to grave. Your children are drugged from their births till their deaths. They all now have 'Autism', 'ADD', ADHD, or some other alphabet disease. They must be drugged.

That's the plan folks. And the plan is more successful than even imagined in their wildest dreams. The Pharmaceuticals own the Sheeple. And if you can't afford their drugs? Oh well, too bad for you. You die.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
The founders of our nation must be communists in your eyes.

I take it that your nation is North Korea?

They wrote the constitution. In that document, they gave the government the power to regulate business.

If you don't like it then YOU must be the communist.

The United States Constitution however, does not. I am not terribly concerned with the North Korean constitution that you abide by.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Try reading slower... I posed a question, I didn't make a statement that the FDA was the only way to protect our food and drugs. Trying being less defensive, aggressive and attacking and more objective and open to discussion... It may provoke better debate and progression

You posed a rhetorical question.

Seriously, own up to your own words.

 

[Slade3200]

A seat belt prolonged my life twice; once saving me from serious injury and a second time from certain death.

That said, I'm against mandatory seat belt and helmet laws because it goes against God's Law of Evolution.

IIRC, 68% of all traffic deaths in Texas are from lack of wearing a seat belt despite laws requiring them. As Ron White once said, "You can't fix stupid". I wish we'd stop trying to do so with silly laws.

OTOH, as far as pharmaceutical drugs go, if I follow the directions on a box of medicine and it seriously injures me or kills a family member, then I should have the right to shoot the motherfucking snake-oil salesman marketing it. Therefore, it's either best to let people serve vigilante justice to snake-oil salesmen or set laws preventing snake-oil salesmen from being in business.

Another reckless driver


Check.


No such thing as a "car accident" it takes two to tangle.

Wow, can't argue with stupid...

Then don't argue with yourself..



Again no such thing as a car accident

Either you drive defensively and no car crash...


Or dive offensively and get in a car crash

Not that complicated is it?

Yeah, tell that to the millions that have been rear ended while stopped in traffic or sideswiped while in their lane, or injured passengers sitting in a car that is in an accident... Time to reevaluate your thinking dude, you are dead wrong on this one.

Don't cry and play the victim with me toots,


They didn't leave room ahead of them and was not watching the rearview mirror when stopped.

Hence not driving defensively .

And please side swiped?

I drove in chicago traffic for 22 years, nope watch your lanes, watch other vehicles , don't drive in packs.

I'll restate... There is no arguing with stupid. Go to youtube and watch some car accident videos. Shit happens and sometimes it is unavoidable.

 

[Dragonlady]

Another cop out answer... I've said multiple times that the government owns a big part of the problem. But you keep painting me with that ignorant partisan brush... I'm about done with you

I've said nothing of party. You promote a Marxist view of how society should run, I take you to task for that.

You made the absurdly ignorant claim that only the FDA can protect our food and drugs. I pointed out that first off, the FDA does a shitty job. It's a government agency staffed by public union hacks who are looking to cruise on the public's dime until they retire at 50. U/L on the other hand does a sterling job, it is after all private, and MUST perform in order to get paid. Capitalism saves lives Comrade, because capitalists must provide value in order for others to PAY them. Not so with socialists. Government hacks get paid regardless. No matter how many die, the FDA is in no danger of "losing a contract."

That I recognize you as part of the parasite class has no relevance on party.

Underwriter's Laboratory is a liability insurance outfit, and yes they do good work, but they don't do drug approvals. They approve small applicances - product safety. Big difference.

Time after time when there's profits to be made, the corporate response is "We have insurance. It's a risk we're prepared to take", and they push for the drug to be released. Many drugs approved by the FDA are subsequently withdrawn because they proved not to be safe in the long term. If you want quicker approvals, give the FDA bigger space and more scientists to assist them.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Drug the Sheeple from cradle to grave. Your children are drugged from the very beginning straight up till their deaths. That's the plan folks. And the plan is more successful than even imagined in their wildest dreams. The Pharmaceuticals own the Sheeple. And if you can't afford their drugs? Oh well, too bad for you. You die.

Unfortunately, drugged sheeple tend to go on shooting rampages, which makes them less than pleasant to have around.

 

[Slade3200]

The price of the Epipen just went up 500%. It costs a dollar to make, and big pharma is charging $500.00 to save a child's life.

The cost of all drugs in the U.S. are ten times more than any other country.

Health insurance is high because of greed. Doctors and hospitals are some of the greediest.

And it's not just big pharma, it's big oil too. When oil was $140.00 a barrel, gas cost $4.00 a gallon. Now oil is three times less at $47.00 a barrel, and we still pay over $2,20 a gallon.

But the real big greed is the military industrial contractors. $600.00 for toilet seats.....$500.00 for coffee makers....and that's just the cheap stuff.

Greed is why we have a $17 trillion national debt.

Greed is why most crimes are committed. Most in prison are there because of greed.

Lawyers are greedy. NO money, you're guilty.

Politicians work less than six months a year for over $200,000.00 plus healthcare, paid vacations, free transportation, and full retirement after four years.

Remember all you 20, 30 & 40 somethings, you're gonna be old in the blink of an eye....and you're gonna pay through the wazoo. Promise.

BULLSHIT




The Lack of EpiPen Competitors is the FDA's Fault

There’s a new bout of outrage over an expensive medicine or medical treatment. While the good in question changes each time, the blame always seems to fall on greedy corporations who just aren’t regulated enough. Free markets and capitalism are the scapegoat, even when nothing remotely resembling unhampered markets in health care is in place in the United States.

EpiPen is sold by Mylan, and the price for a pack of two has increased from about $100 in 2007 to over $600 as of May 2016. Mylan has tried to quell the storm by pointing out that many of their customers pay nothing for the drug because of insurance. Their deflection has been unsuccessful.

The economist looks for competitors in cases like this. A firm cannot just willy-nilly raise their prices without a competing firm leaping in to give consumers what they want at a lower price. As it turns out, Mylan has a great friend who keeps would-be competitors out of the market, or at least makes it so difficult for them that they eventually go out of business. That friend is the FDA.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.

A French pharmaceutical company offered an electronic device that actually talks people through the steps of administering the drug, but it was recalled because of concerns about it delivering the required dose. Just this year, Teva Pharmaceutical’s attempt at bringing a generic epinephrine injector to market in the US was blocked by the FDA. Adrenaclick and Twinject were unable to get insurance companies on board and so discontinuedtheir injectors in 2012.

______----------________


In conclusion fuck the socialists, the fascists, the FDA


.

tough to criticize without the details of why it was rejected. If it didn't pass safety standards and was a risk to our public then it makes sense, right?

Epinephrine - the medicine --is NOT the issue


Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.


The issue is how to get from here

to here

.ABOLISH THE FASCISTIC FDA


.

With no FDA how do we prevent dangerous drugs from flooding the market?

I'm not doubting the the FDA creates a long approval process and has much room for better efficiency but I haven't heard one person site specifically what "red tape" measures are erroneous, per this discussion.

What if the generic epipens were failing and dangerous?

Wow! "How do we prevent dangerous drugs"???
Evil capitalist drug CEO: "let's sell this drug that will kill our customers! Throw us in jail. Cost us billions! Yea that's what we'll do!
Brilliant!

Did I ever imply that defective/dangerous drugs were a result of intention to kill from CEO's?

 

[Dana7360]

No, nothing like that... I never said anything about seizure or confiscation, or distribution by the state... You made that up to try and label me as a communist.
Do you have comprehension problems? I say one thing and then you try to restate it in a completely distorted way. Is that really how your brain works? Are you sincere or just trying to be an ass?

The owner of a good sets the price that the good will sell for, If the state sets the price for Epipens or any other good, then the state is the owner.

Mylan is gouging, people can be assholes and these people are. The reality of a market is that the greed of Mylan creates an opportunity for competitors to market an alternative product. Someone will, the market doesn't leave money on the table.

But of course you ARE a Communist and instead of allowing market mechanisms to correct the disequilibrium caused by the departure of Mylan's sole competitor, you demand that the state nationalize the entire industry and have bureaucrats with no stake set the prices that drugs will sell for.

Why do you keep putting words in my mouth. It just makes you look like even more of an idiot. I never said that I wanted the state to control the price of Mylans product. If the government and FDA is holding up the process of creating an affordable generic then they are part of the problem. If this is the case then Mylan and the gov are feeding the problem.

The government isn't holding up the process to create an affordable generic epipen.

It's already on the market. I started buying them about a year ago. Maybe more than a year but around the time when the non generic version started to skyrocket in price.