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And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.
And they don't exclude the LEO, they can't. Every time a copy draws his or gun, hopefully, it is in self defense.
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.
Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....
the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......
again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......
Suicides don't count...suicides don't countAnd Americans are 7,000 times more likely to drive, so your figures are out the window. Run along, silly boy.
Doesn't matter how much more they drive.....pile up the bodies....cars....35,369 guns 505....
You gun grabbers never say....criminals are more likely to murder innocent people so focus on them....no...you say grab all guns...make it more difficult for normal law abiding people to own guns even though they aren't the ones killing people.....
it isn't about criminals, it isn't about gun deaths....you guys have an irrational fear of guns....this post demonstrates that....
your energy would be put to better use stopping accidental auto deaths...you would save more lives...but no.....
You just want to get rid of guns...
And you are a fucking liar.
FastStats - Injuries
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
All firearm deaths
- Number of deaths: 33,804
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7
American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015 - Bloomberg Business
- Number of deaths: 33,636
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6
While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.
Not a liar fuck head....the stats are the stats.....Bloomberg is lying he is a gun grabber.....
And fuck head..suicides don't count...Japan and South Korea,have absolute gun control and their people commit suicide at 2 times our rate...
But gun grabbers lie....they lie in order to beef up the bodies they can exploit to go after guns so they have to use suicides to beef up their numbers....
Since accidental gun deaths are going down...only 505 in 2013 and gun murders are going down even as more Americans than ever are buying and carrying guns...only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.... The gun grabbers have to lie....otherwise reality doesn't help their agenda...
I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....
too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........
CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.
That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.
Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.
Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.
So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....
There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.
And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.
Cars have
Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance
Time to do the same with guns
Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......
All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.
Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....
the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......
again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......
I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.
And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.
No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.
I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....
too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........
CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.
That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.
Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.
Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.
So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....
There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.
And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.
Cars have
Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance
Time to do the same with guns
Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......
All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......
None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them
I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....
too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........
CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.
That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.
Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.
Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.
So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....
There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.
And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.
Cars have
Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance
Time to do the same with guns
Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......
All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......
None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them
So yet again the OCD horse goes to town....
Since guns are Right, and not a priveldge, any attempt at those things are equal to poll taxes and literacy tests for voting....and therefore are unconstitutional......
Suicides don't count...suicides don't countAnd Americans are 7,000 times more likely to drive, so your figures are out the window. Run along, silly boy.
Doesn't matter how much more they drive.....pile up the bodies....cars....35,369 guns 505....
You gun grabbers never say....criminals are more likely to murder innocent people so focus on them....no...you say grab all guns...make it more difficult for normal law abiding people to own guns even though they aren't the ones killing people.....
it isn't about criminals, it isn't about gun deaths....you guys have an irrational fear of guns....this post demonstrates that....
your energy would be put to better use stopping accidental auto deaths...you would save more lives...but no.....
You just want to get rid of guns...
And you are a fucking liar.
FastStats - Injuries
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
All firearm deaths
- Number of deaths: 33,804
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7
American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015 - Bloomberg Business
- Number of deaths: 33,636
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6
While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.
Not a liar fuck head....the stats are the stats.....Bloomberg is lying he is a gun grabber.....
And fuck head..suicides don't count...Japan and South Korea,have absolute gun control and their people commit suicide at 2 times our rate...
But gun grabbers lie....they lie in order to beef up the bodies they can exploit to go after guns so they have to use suicides to beef up their numbers....
Since accidental gun deaths are going down...only 505 in 2013 and gun murders are going down even as more Americans than ever are buying and carrying guns...only 8,454 gun murders in 2013.... The gun grabbers have to lie....otherwise reality doesn't help their agenda...
Of course they count. Somebody pulled a trigger and is dead
Korea and Japan don't count. They are a different culture. Our culture kills itself because of depression. Their culture kills itself because of depression and loss of honor
Not a valid comparison
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.
Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....
the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......
again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......
I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.
And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.
No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.
avg spams his own thread, loses a false comparison fallacy, and tells the biggest lie: no one is coming for his guns.
Jake....on the basis of your posts...I took the 16 studies cited by Kleck and with his took out all the studies that included military and police defensive gun use.....and the average is now 2 million times a year........that guns are used by non millitary, non police to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....
You can run the numbers yourself...don't forget to add in Kleck's 2.5 million......and that isn't all the studies I usually list, only the ones that I can confirm did not use military or police.....
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.
Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....
So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.
Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....
the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......
again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......
I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.
And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.
No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.
avg spams his own thread, loses a false comparison fallacy, and tells the biggest lie: no one is coming for his guns.
I was getting ready to ask him if his lover is his left, or his right hand....
Reasonable fees are not constitutional infringements on 2dA rights.