CDC: Accidental car deaths 2013...35,369. Accidental gun deaths 2013...505.

[JakeStarkey]

avguy has failed from the OP: (1) a false comparison fallacy and (2) no one is coming for his guns

 

[2aguy]

avguy has failed from the OP: (1) a false comparison fallacy and (2) no one is coming for his guns

you are naive....and foolish...and they let you have a badge.....when do you go to trial.....someone like you obviously can't control themselves around prisoners.......

 

[Vandalshandle]

avguy has failed from the OP: (1) a false comparison fallacy and (2) no one is coming for his guns

Actually, Jake, we have his computer pinpointed. We plan on taking his guns within the month. I can't tell you exactly when on a public message board. If he resists, well, then, we know where his relatives live....

 

[rightwinger]

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....

too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........

CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.

That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.

Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.

Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.

So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Like a true NRA trained rodent you chant....that will not work, that won't work at every suggestion

Of course, most of the civilized world has shown.....IT DOES WORK

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avgguy, it has been decided.

Report to FEMA Camp 2 in your neighborhood by tomorrow, or we will send a girl scout to bring you in. One bad 2dA guy, one scout is the rule.

 

[Brain357]

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

I love posting this....it highlights how foolish the gun grabbers are....

too many average Americans who don't follow the issue think gun accidents are at an all time high...when in fact they are going down, not up........

CDC Report 35 369 Vehicle Accident Deaths 505 Gun Accident Deaths - Breitbart

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) final report on death statistics for 2013 shows there were 35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 deaths from the accidental discharge of firearms.

That is not a typo—35,369 versus 505. Americans are 70 times more likely to die in a vehicle accident than by the accidental discharge of a firearm.

Yet Michael Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and Everytown for Gun Safety have not uttered a peep about Ford, Dodge, or Toyota control. They are utterly consumed with a new gun control push framed around accidental firearm deaths.

Again—35,369 deaths from motor vehicle accidents versus 505 accidental deaths from firearms. Just reading that ratio creates a sinking feeling in your stomach that perhaps the pursuit of gun control is totally unfounded.

So...once you look at murders by hands and feet....more than by long guns in general and way more than AR-15s in particular...you see that the anti-gun nuts are not interested in people who are killed...they are interested in their fear of guns.....and that is what motivates them, not the death of innocents...their time could be better spent preventing car accidents, but because they have a phobia about guns...they want to deny all Americans their birth right......the right to self defense.....

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Explain why a crime survey that gets all the details of what happened wouldn't get DGUs.

Why is it you never try to explain how there could be 60 million DGUs the last 30 years yet gun owners with one are a minority?

 

[Brain357]

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

I know lots of people that were injured in car accidents... You must not be a very good driver btw. It's funny that you claim there are more DGUs than people injured in car accidents. A much higher percent of the gun owners I know should have a DGU than drivers injured. Yet I don't know anyone with a DGU, but know several who have been injured in car crashes.

 

[Brain357]

And crime has dropped like 30% from those studies. And they have all been debunked.

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

The NCVS is not a gun study.....again...it would be like asking people in a car study if they own a car, then what kind of car, and then if they answer they have a convertible asking them if they use any sort of protection from the sun for when the top is down....and then saying that this is a definitive study on the use of Sunscreen by Americans......and then you would be laughed out of what ever research group you belong to....

If you take the bus.....you would never get to the sunscreen question even if you use sunscreen because you are a construction worker or work outdoors......

that is why a gun study has to actually ask....did you use a gun as the main question...not a peripheral question that you sort of get around to after a bunch of other questions get the right result.....

You aren't making any sense. Every DGU should involve an attempted crime. If there is no attempted crime it is not a DGU. So a crime survey would capture all DGUs.

 

[2aguy]

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Explain why a crime survey that gets all the details of what happened wouldn't get DGUs.

Why is it you never try to explain how there could be 60 million DGUs the last 30 years yet gun owners with one are a minority?

Because it isn't designed to ask the basic question in a straightforward way..."Have you used a gun for self defense in the last year"....it doesn't even get to that question.....the NCVS asks have you been a victim of a crime.....and then as they respond to that question they get around to asking, "did you do anything to try to stop the crime" and even then it doesn't directly ask about gun use..........

these are the examples they miss directly...someone walks up to me and tries to rob me...I draw my gun and they run away...."Question...have you ever been a victim of a crime." I answer no, because I scared the guy off.....no further questions will be asked.......

Then you miss the answers of people who carried the gun without a permit...who are sitting across the table from a government agent with a badge.....asking if they did anything to stop the crime, knowing they used a gun but carried it illegally, having commiteed no crime but that one.....so they answer no, they ran away...instead of the truth.......

The example I gave about sun screen and cars is perfect........

 

[Brain357]

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Explain why a crime survey that gets all the details of what happened wouldn't get DGUs.

Why is it you never try to explain how there could be 60 million DGUs the last 30 years yet gun owners with one are a minority?

Because it isn't designed to ask the basic question in a straightforward way..."Have you used a gun for self defense in the last year"....it doesn't even get to that question.....the NCVS asks have you been a victim of a crime.....and then as they respond to that question they get around to asking, "did you do anything to try to stop the crime" and even then it doesn't directly ask about gun use..........

these are the examples they miss directly...someone walks up to me and tries to rob me...I draw my gun and they run away...."Question...have you ever been a victim of a crime." I answer no, because I scared the guy off.....no further questions will be asked.......

Then you miss the answers of people who carried the gun without a permit...who are sitting across the table from a government agent with a badge.....asking if they did anything to stop the crime, knowing they used a gun but carried it illegally, having commiteed no crime but that one.....so they answer no, they ran away...instead of the truth.......

The example I gave about sun screen and cars is perfect........

Going right to the gun question is probably why they get so many false positives. Every gun nut who has ever had one is immediately interested and gives his story whether it was 20 years ago or 3 months. Not going right to guns is actually good, not bad.

So yes did you do anything about the crime. Are you suggesting if someone used a gun to defend themselves they wouldn't mention that? The questions are pretty clear and I have no doubt they would capture any DGUs. And it's a survey of like 90,000 households. Far more accurate than your little gun surveys.

 

[2aguy]

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

I know lots of people that were injured in car accidents... You must not be a very good driver btw.

At this point I have never been injured and have never injured anyone else, I have managed to avoid collisions, at the expense of my vehicle...one time a woman didn't know she had a stop sign and turned into my path....I planted the car up the curb onto the parkway...she didn't realize she had done it..

Another one, driving my chevette, I was hit in the rear wheel by another woman ignoring a stop sign...she spun me around 180 degrees and I stopped the car before I rolled backwards into a telephone poll....

another one...making a right turn at a high school crossing my breaks failed in my cavalier last year.......I had no breaks....because I was turning and slowing down I was able to control the car and used my parking break to stop....

This last winter a girl just stopped in front of me...I thought there was plenty of space between us but it was snowing enough to ice the road and we were on an incline.....I pumped the break and realized I was still going to hit her....so I decided to just drive around her, the oncoming lane was clear....as I started to turn...her tail end started swerving across the oncoming lane blocking me...so I turned into the opposite parkway, putting my entire car up on a snow bank, all 4 wheels off the ground......

So....I have managed to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else.......and over 40 milllion injuries...not one by me......

 

[2aguy]

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

The NCVS is not a gun study.....again...it would be like asking people in a car study if they own a car, then what kind of car, and then if they answer they have a convertible asking them if they use any sort of protection from the sun for when the top is down....and then saying that this is a definitive study on the use of Sunscreen by Americans......and then you would be laughed out of what ever research group you belong to....

If you take the bus.....you would never get to the sunscreen question even if you use sunscreen because you are a construction worker or work outdoors......

that is why a gun study has to actually ask....did you use a gun as the main question...not a peripheral question that you sort of get around to after a bunch of other questions get the right result.....

You aren't making any sense. Every DGU should involve an attempted crime. If there is no attempted crime it is not a DGU. So a crime survey would capture all DGUs.

No...the question is were you a victim of a crime.....if you stop the crime with a gun you were not a victim of a crime......just like if you stopped a rape with a gun you were not raped....so wouldn't report you were a rape victim...

 

[2aguy]

Avgguy, it has been decided.

Report to FEMA Camp 2 in your neighborhood by tomorrow, or we will send a girl scout to bring you in. One bad 2dA guy, one scout is the rule.

Oh....that's it...why didn't I think of it sooner....you say you have a badge....you are Barney Fife...do they let you have a bullet for your gun.....

 

[Brain357]

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

I know lots of people that were injured in car accidents... You must not be a very good driver btw.

At this point I have never been injured and have never injured anyone else, I have managed to avoid collisions, at the expense of my vehicle...one time a woman didn't know she had a stop sign and turned into my path....I planted the car up the curb onto the parkway...she didn't realize she had done it..

Another one, driving my chevette, I was hit in the rear wheel by another woman ignoring a stop sign...she spun me around 180 degrees and I stopped the car before I rolled backwards into a telephone poll....

another one...making a right turn at a high school crossing my breaks failed in my cavalier last year.......I had no breaks....because I was turning and slowing down I was able to control the car and used my parking break to stop....

This last winter a girl just stopped in front of me...I thought there was plenty of space between us but it was snowing enough to ice the road and we were on an incline.....I pumped the break and realized I was still going to hit her....so I decided to just drive around her, the oncoming lane was clear....as I started to turn...her tail end started swerving across the oncoming lane blocking me...so I turned into the opposite parkway, putting my entire car up on a snow bank, all 4 wheels off the ground......

So....I have managed to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else.......and over 40 milllion injuries...not one by me......

You realize there are far fewer gun owners than car owners right? And you are claiming more DGUs than car injuries each year. So DGUs should be far more common among gun owners than car injuries among car owners. Think you debunked your own studies with this one.

 

[2aguy]

Again...saying they are debunked because you don't agree with them is not debunking them....and since they have stood the test of time and criticism by actual researchers and not anti gun agenda researchers they still stand.....

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

There are more car steering wheels in the hands of people every day of the year, than guns in the hands of people in a year - by the millions.

And industry is working on making cars safer, any effort to make guns safer is met with an outcry, a giant NO, lead by the terrorist organization, the NRA.

Cars have

Safety requirements
Registration
Licensed and trained drivers
Insurance

Time to do the same with guns

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Like a true NRA trained rodent you chant....that will not work, that won't work at every suggestion

Of course, most of the civilized world has shown.....IT DOES WORK

No....the civilized world also has gun crime...their criminals don't use guns as much but much like Suicide in Japan and South Korea it is cultural, not guns......Europe has always had a lower crime rate than us.....before they banned guns...so guns aren't the difference.....our criminal culture is different....

And again...FRance has stricter guns laws...and their criminals get fully automatic, military grade rifles when they want or need them...also hand grenades and rocket propelled grenades...so no...their gun laws don't work either...dittos Belgium...where the French guys got their guns, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Australia and Canada....

 

[Yurt]

You are being irrational yet once again.

No one is coming to take your guns. Believe me, if it were me coming as LEO, I would have you r guns, and you would be in jail or worse.

You are nothing but a yeller.

^loony left wing wacko^ wants to take your guns

 

[2aguy]

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

I know lots of people that were injured in car accidents... You must not be a very good driver btw.

At this point I have never been injured and have never injured anyone else, I have managed to avoid collisions, at the expense of my vehicle...one time a woman didn't know she had a stop sign and turned into my path....I planted the car up the curb onto the parkway...she didn't realize she had done it..

Another one, driving my chevette, I was hit in the rear wheel by another woman ignoring a stop sign...she spun me around 180 degrees and I stopped the car before I rolled backwards into a telephone poll....

another one...making a right turn at a high school crossing my breaks failed in my cavalier last year.......I had no breaks....because I was turning and slowing down I was able to control the car and used my parking break to stop....

This last winter a girl just stopped in front of me...I thought there was plenty of space between us but it was snowing enough to ice the road and we were on an incline.....I pumped the break and realized I was still going to hit her....so I decided to just drive around her, the oncoming lane was clear....as I started to turn...her tail end started swerving across the oncoming lane blocking me...so I turned into the opposite parkway, putting my entire car up on a snow bank, all 4 wheels off the ground......

So....I have managed to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else.......and over 40 milllion injuries...not one by me......

You realize there are far fewer gun owners than car owners right? And you are claiming more DGUs than car injuries each year. So DGUs should be far more common among gun owners than car injuries among car owners. Think you debunked your own studies with this one.

Brain...the studies are the studies and they show you are wrong......they were done over 40 years by experienced criminologists and economists and they used actual research methods.....you don't agree with what they found and so struggle with reality......

 

[2aguy]

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and yes they do ask if they used a firearm for defense. You have read it so stop lying. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

You take a non gun study and take it as the definitive answer on guns.......I guess you would also take a survey o

Ownership of guns is the same level of Right as voting....and poll taxes and literacy tests were just attempts to deny people the right to vote....all of the above are the same thing for the 2nd Amendment....since only 505 people out of 320 million people died from accidental gun deaths there is no rational reason for added crap....other than to make assholes like you feel better, and to add expense to punish people who want to own guns for self defense, competition and hunting......

All of the above are poll taxes and literacy tests for a Right...not a priveledge......

None of the things listed affect your second amendment rights. They do help insure those who do not have a right to own guns (wife beaters, criminals, crazies ) do not get them

that's not true....not one of those things does one thing to stop criminals from getting guns or stops them from comitting crimes with guns....they don't stop the 8-9,000 gun murders mostly committed in inner cities and they didn't stop any of the mass shooters...........the mass shooters in particular for the most part obeyed all of those laws...the Santa Barbara shooter who killed people with a knife, gun and car, passed a background check 3 times, and only used the legal 10 round magazines......

Not one thing you listed stops criminals or mass shooters....at all.....

they don't do the one thing you say you want them to do....

Explain why a crime survey that gets all the details of what happened wouldn't get DGUs.

Why is it you never try to explain how there could be 60 million DGUs the last 30 years yet gun owners with one are a minority?

Because it isn't designed to ask the basic question in a straightforward way..."Have you used a gun for self defense in the last year"....it doesn't even get to that question.....the NCVS asks have you been a victim of a crime.....and then as they respond to that question they get around to asking, "did you do anything to try to stop the crime" and even then it doesn't directly ask about gun use..........

these are the examples they miss directly...someone walks up to me and tries to rob me...I draw my gun and they run away...."Question...have you ever been a victim of a crime." I answer no, because I scared the guy off.....no further questions will be asked.......

Then you miss the answers of people who carried the gun without a permit...who are sitting across the table from a government agent with a badge.....asking if they did anything to stop the crime, knowing they used a gun but carried it illegally, having commiteed no crime but that one.....so they answer no, they ran away...instead of the truth.......

The example I gave about sun screen and cars is perfect........

Going right to the gun question is probably why they get so many false positives. Every gun nut who has ever had one is immediately interested and gives his story whether it was 20 years ago or 3 months. Not going right to guns is actually good, not bad.

So yes did you do anything about the crime. Are you suggesting if someone used a gun to defend themselves they wouldn't mention that? The questions are pretty clear and I have no doubt they would capture any DGUs. And it's a survey of like 90,000 households. Far more accurate than your little gun surveys.

Going right to the gun question is probably why they get so many false positives.

yes....a gun study that actually, directly asks..."Have you used a gun for self defense in the last year" would get more false positives than a study that isn't about guns and only asks the question "did you do anything to stop the attack".........does it hurt to contort reasoning so much.....

 

[Brain357]

So what number are you clinging to now? Did I see 2 million? So you think the last 30 years there have been 60 million defenses? That's enough that just about every gun owner should have one. Yet I don't know anyone who has one. When I ask on this board people claiming one are a minority. Sorry but they are debunked. They have not stood the test of time, you are one of the few people who take them seriously. And they can't stand the test of time because they don't even all agree. If you claim 2 million now well then 9 of your own surveys say it is lower. The MAJORITY of your own surveys say it is LOWER. The NCVS is far more accurate and it says 108k.

Blame starkey for the new number...he insisted the 16 studies had to include police and military...I checked again and he was partially right.....7 of the 16 included police and military us....so I took those out and only use the studies for civilians...and the number averaged to 2 million....which Kleck quotes often, even though his number was 2.5 million.....

the studies have not been debunked, again...saying... "I Debunk thee,"..... doesn't get the job done........you actually have to do the research....and whenever anti gunners do the research they lie....they purposefully ask the wrong questions, purposefully misquote other studies, and then when that doesn't get the job done, they lie.......that has been shown...over and over by people who did the research into hemenway, kellerman and donahue.......


again.....the NCVS is not a gun study.....it does not ask one person "Did you use a gun for self defense" it is not a gun study...it is "have you been a victim of crime" study.........so no matter what number they find, it doesn't matter since it wasn't studying gun use......

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

The NCVS is not a gun study.....again...it would be like asking people in a car study if they own a car, then what kind of car, and then if they answer they have a convertible asking them if they use any sort of protection from the sun for when the top is down....and then saying that this is a definitive study on the use of Sunscreen by Americans......and then you would be laughed out of what ever research group you belong to....

If you take the bus.....you would never get to the sunscreen question even if you use sunscreen because you are a construction worker or work outdoors......

that is why a gun study has to actually ask....did you use a gun as the main question...not a peripheral question that you sort of get around to after a bunch of other questions get the right result.....

You aren't making any sense. Every DGU should involve an attempted crime. If there is no attempted crime it is not a DGU. So a crime survey would capture all DGUs.

No...the question is were you a victim of a crime.....if you stop the crime with a gun you were not a victim of a crime......just like if you stopped a rape with a gun you were not raped....so wouldn't report you were a rape victim...

No that's not how it works. It includes attempted crimes and also crimes that were not reported to the police. There is no reason any DGU would not be in the survey.

For example:
Bureau of Justice Statistics BJS - Violent Crime
Aggravated assault An attack or attempted attack with a weapon, regardless of whether an injury occurred, and an attack without a weapon when serious injury results.

 

[Brain357]

I didn't just say they are debunked I gave you a reason. If you are claiming it is 2 million per year then that means 60 million defenses the last 30 years. Well that means pretty much every gun owner has had one. Yet me and you know only a small minority of gun owners has had them. So it is impossible. Debunked.

And again if you are now claiming 2 million well then I have 9 studies that say it is lower. The majority of studies say it is lower.

No it doesn't have to be a gun study. It is a crime study. I posted exactly what the NCVS asks and they would get answers if a firearm was used. You have read it and couldn't deny that. Also it surveys like 90,000 households. The bigger the survey the more accurate. Your surveys are 5,000 for the biggest and they take like 200 false positives and extrapolate that to 2.5 million. Again, you are about the only one still believing those crazy numbers. They are fantasy.

Brain...according to the stats over 2.31 million people were injured in car accidents in 2013...right....so over 20 years that is over 40 million people injured in car accidents...right...

Well....I have been involved in 3 car accidents, my brother one motorcycle accident , one cousin in 2 rear end collisions, my mother in one t-bone accident....

And only one of us was ever injured.......so I guess that 40 million number is debunked....right.......since according to you we all must be injured to get to that number......

I know lots of people that were injured in car accidents... You must not be a very good driver btw.

At this point I have never been injured and have never injured anyone else, I have managed to avoid collisions, at the expense of my vehicle...one time a woman didn't know she had a stop sign and turned into my path....I planted the car up the curb onto the parkway...she didn't realize she had done it..

Another one, driving my chevette, I was hit in the rear wheel by another woman ignoring a stop sign...she spun me around 180 degrees and I stopped the car before I rolled backwards into a telephone poll....

another one...making a right turn at a high school crossing my breaks failed in my cavalier last year.......I had no breaks....because I was turning and slowing down I was able to control the car and used my parking break to stop....

This last winter a girl just stopped in front of me...I thought there was plenty of space between us but it was snowing enough to ice the road and we were on an incline.....I pumped the break and realized I was still going to hit her....so I decided to just drive around her, the oncoming lane was clear....as I started to turn...her tail end started swerving across the oncoming lane blocking me...so I turned into the opposite parkway, putting my entire car up on a snow bank, all 4 wheels off the ground......

So....I have managed to avoid getting hurt or hurting anyone else.......and over 40 milllion injuries...not one by me......

You realize there are far fewer gun owners than car owners right? And you are claiming more DGUs than car injuries each year. So DGUs should be far more common among gun owners than car injuries among car owners. Think you debunked your own studies with this one.

Brain...the studies are the studies and they show you are wrong......they were done over 40 years by experienced criminologists and economists and they used actual research methods.....you don't agree with what they found and so struggle with reality......

How am I wrong exactly? If you say 2.5 million than 15 of the studies say you are wrong. You always act like they all support 2.5 million when in fact the majority say it is less.