🌟 Exclusive 2024 Prime Day Deals! 🌟

Unlock unbeatable offers today. Shop here: https://amzn.to/4cEkqYs 🎁

Central planning & command economies

oldfart

Older than dirt
Nov 5, 2009
2,411
477
140
Redneck Riviera
Without realizing it, most folks treat central planning and command economies as the same thing when they are not. This sloppy thinking leads to a lot of epic fails.

I’ll start with the terms. “Central planning” is system where organizations like a government, industry, or firm tries to gauge economic conditions that pertain to it, and adjust its behavior to achieve its objectives. The bigger the entity, the more central the planning will be. At the smaller end is your average firm with a business plan and projections (which we normally don’t think of as central planning, but it’s just a matter of degree) and the other end are entire governments/economies such as the US government or the old Soviet Union. In this broader sense, all governments and trade associations in developed economies engage in central planning; they gather statistics, generate reports, plan future actions and budgets, and try to forecast the future. That’s central planning.

The key to microeconomics is how information is transmitted to households and firms that they use to make economic decisions. There are a few methods that work for very small economies like a village (barter, village communalism, and so forth) but for larger economies there are basically two mechanism, commands and markets. You can be for one or the other mechanism in any given situation, but you can’t be against both.

Command mechanisms take a number of forms. One form is direct orders, as in Soviet style “War Communism”. In that case a factory was told what inputs it would receive and given a “quota” it was expected to meet. People who met quotas generally got a Hero of Labor medal and depending on the times an extra ration of vodka or two weeks at a Black Sea resort. People who failed in the early days were shot as saboteurs, later they merely were transferred to Siberia. This system works pretty well in desperate times during war, and not so well all other times. But the significant fact is that information is not being transmitted through prices, it is transmitted through orders.

In one sense, regulations and laws regulating commerce are commands. We pass a law saying that it is illegal to use false weights and measures in commerce, and this is a command. Without it, much of commerce would be very dicey, so it is to almost everyone’s benefit to enforce such commands. Regulations can command that anyone using the term “organic” must spend thousands of dollars on testing to prove no “non-organic” method was used. This kind of regulation functions primarily as a barrier to entry and is useful mainly to large agribusiness as a way to create and maintain monopoly power.

Of course the second method of transmitting information, markets, does so by utilizing prices. In one sense commands and markets are complementary. It is hard to argue that markets are not more efficient with good regulation of things like weights and measures, a system of commercial law, defined property rights, and so forth; as argued by Milton Friedman. But on a more detailed level command solutions and market solutions often compete. Is it better to control pollution with direct commands (regulations setting absolute limits) or a market for pollution “credits”? Can we reduce the personal and social costs of drug abuse better by criminalizing drug use (command solution) or by economic disincentives like taxes? Obviously society needs to use both and adjust the mix based on objectives and experience situation by situation.

So the choices are commands vs prices, and the proper mix of the two. Where does central planning come in? It doesn’t. By historical accident, central planning and extreme command methods came together in the Soviet period and became linked in the minds of many people. In the ‘60s the French developed a system of “indicative planning” which was a method whereby the government gathered statistics and made predictions based on them without any extraordinary measures to intervene in the economy. The idea was that if there model worked well, households and industry would rely on their predictions, uncertainty would be reduced, decisions of constituent business would automatically be coordinated, and the predictions would become self-fulfilling. It sounds quaint now only because everybody does it. Markets rise and fall on publication of the Fed OMC minutes and CBO forecasts.

The purpose of this little exercise is to demonstrate that everybody uses central planning; that is not the issue. The issue is what combination of price and command mechanisms will work best in a given situation, and that is going to vary from one situation to another.

All of the ideologues are now free to go back to debating “capitalism” and “socialism” (terms you will note I have not used) and hopefully a few have learned something and will be less sloppy in their language and reasoning on economic matters.

All the best, Jamie
 
Without realizing it, most folks treat central planning and command economies as the same thing when they are not. This sloppy thinking leads to a lot of epic fails.

I’ll start with the terms. “Central planning” is system where organizations like a government, industry, or firm tries to gauge economic conditions that pertain to it, and adjust its behavior to achieve its objectives. The bigger the entity, the more central the planning will be. At the smaller end is your average firm with a business plan and projections (which we normally don’t think of as central planning, but it’s just a matter of degree) and the other end are entire governments/economies such as the US government or the old Soviet Union. In this broader sense, all governments and trade associations in developed economies engage in central planning; they gather statistics, generate reports, plan future actions and budgets, and try to forecast the future. That’s central planning.

The key to microeconomics is how information is transmitted to households and firms that they use to make economic decisions. There are a few methods that work for very small economies like a village (barter, village communalism, and so forth) but for larger economies there are basically two mechanism, commands and markets. You can be for one or the other mechanism in any given situation, but you can’t be against both.

Command mechanisms take a number of forms. One form is direct orders, as in Soviet style “War Communism”. In that case a factory was told what inputs it would receive and given a “quota” it was expected to meet. People who met quotas generally got a Hero of Labor medal and depending on the times an extra ration of vodka or two weeks at a Black Sea resort. People who failed in the early days were shot as saboteurs, later they merely were transferred to Siberia. This system works pretty well in desperate times during war, and not so well all other times. But the significant fact is that information is not being transmitted through prices, it is transmitted through orders.

In one sense, regulations and laws regulating commerce are commands. We pass a law saying that it is illegal to use false weights and measures in commerce, and this is a command. Without it, much of commerce would be very dicey, so it is to almost everyone’s benefit to enforce such commands. Regulations can command that anyone using the term “organic” must spend thousands of dollars on testing to prove no “non-organic” method was used. This kind of regulation functions primarily as a barrier to entry and is useful mainly to large agribusiness as a way to create and maintain monopoly power.

Of course the second method of transmitting information, markets, does so by utilizing prices. In one sense commands and markets are complementary. It is hard to argue that markets are not more efficient with good regulation of things like weights and measures, a system of commercial law, defined property rights, and so forth; as argued by Milton Friedman. But on a more detailed level command solutions and market solutions often compete. Is it better to control pollution with direct commands (regulations setting absolute limits) or a market for pollution “credits”? Can we reduce the personal and social costs of drug abuse better by criminalizing drug use (command solution) or by economic disincentives like taxes? Obviously society needs to use both and adjust the mix based on objectives and experience situation by situation.

So the choices are commands vs prices, and the proper mix of the two. Where does central planning come in? It doesn’t. By historical accident, central planning and extreme command methods came together in the Soviet period and became linked in the minds of many people. In the ‘60s the French developed a system of “indicative planning” which was a method whereby the government gathered statistics and made predictions based on them without any extraordinary measures to intervene in the economy. The idea was that if there model worked well, households and industry would rely on their predictions, uncertainty would be reduced, decisions of constituent business would automatically be coordinated, and the predictions would become self-fulfilling. It sounds quaint now only because everybody does it. Markets rise and fall on publication of the Fed OMC minutes and CBO forecasts.

The purpose of this little exercise is to demonstrate that everybody uses central planning; that is not the issue. The issue is what combination of price and command mechanisms will work best in a given situation, and that is going to vary from one situation to another.

All of the ideologues are now free to go back to debating “capitalism” and “socialism” (terms you will note I have not used) and hopefully a few have learned something and will be less sloppy in their language and reasoning on economic matters.

All the best, Jamie
Excellent effort at getting back to the basics. And it has been true forever, or something close to it. Problem is, it assumes people want to know. Which, based on this board, they do not.
The important thing is, however, for those that do want truth, based on facts, this "little exercise" helps one get some space from the ideologues who love posting ignorance, about loaded words like marxists, communists, liberals on one side and capitalists, market systems, and so forth on the other. And, for those who have libertarian leanings, concepts that they want to say do not exist, like monopoly power.

I tried a simple subject for a thread I titled something like "what would you like your economy to accomplish for you" which turned out like throwing chum to the sharks. But that is the question many do not want to admit is what we need to understand.
 
Last edited:
command economy -- Encyclopedia Britannica

command economy

command economy, economic system in which the means of production are publicly owned and economic activity is controlled by a central authority that assigns quantitative production goals and allots raw materials to productive enterprises. In such a system, determining the proportion of total product used for investment rather than consumption becomes a centrally made political decision. After this decision has been made, the central planners work out the assortment of goods to be produced and the quotas for each enterprise. Consumers may influence the planners’ decisions indirectly if the planners take into consideration the surpluses and shortages that have developed in the market. The only direct choice made by consumers, however, is among the commodities already produced.

Prices are also set by the central planners, but they do not serve, as in a market economy, as signals to producers of goods to increase or decrease production. Instead, they are used mainly as instruments of the central planners in their efforts to reconcile the total demand for consumer goods with the supply available, allowing also for revenues to the state.

The central authority in a command economy assigns production goals in terms of physical units and allocates physical quantities of raw materials to enterprises. The process for a large economy with millions of products is extremely complex and has encountered a number of difficulties in practice.

Central planning of this kind is not without apparent advantages,

You're crossing semantics into the same idea. Central planning, no matter the degree, requires command mechanisms. The difference is, of course, like you said, in degree. Intra-firm planning is not the same when referring to governmental central planning. As this should be obvious.
 
Economic planning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Economic planning refers to a coordinating mechanism outside the mechanisms of the market. There are various types of planning procedures and different ways of conducting economic planning. As a coordinating mechanism for socialism and an alternative to the market, planning is defined as a direct allocation of resources; contrasted to the indirect allocation of the market.


I think what you were really after is the difference between direct and indirect allocation.
 
command economy -- Encyclopedia Britannica

command economy

command economy, economic system in which the means of production are publicly owned and economic activity is controlled by a central authority that assigns quantitative production goals and allots raw materials to productive enterprises. In such a system, determining the proportion of total product used for investment rather than consumption becomes a centrally made political decision. After this decision has been made, the central planners work out the assortment of goods to be produced and the quotas for each enterprise. Consumers may influence the planners’ decisions indirectly if the planners take into consideration the surpluses and shortages that have developed in the market. The only direct choice made by consumers, however, is among the commodities already produced.

Prices are also set by the central planners, but they do not serve, as in a market economy, as signals to producers of goods to increase or decrease production. Instead, they are used mainly as instruments of the central planners in their efforts to reconcile the total demand for consumer goods with the supply available, allowing also for revenues to the state.

The central authority in a command economy assigns production goals in terms of physical units and allocates physical quantities of raw materials to enterprises. The process for a large economy with millions of products is extremely complex and has encountered a number of difficulties in practice.

Central planning of this kind is not without apparent advantages,

You're crossing semantics into the same idea. Central planning, no matter the degree, requires command mechanisms. The difference is, of course, like you said, in degree. Intra-firm planning is not the same when referring to governmental central planning. As this should be obvious.

I owe you a thousand "gotcha points"! When I wrote the OP I considered an explanation of the difference between commands as a mode of economic communication and a "command economy" where such mechanisms dominate the economy as opposed to using market prices. I didn't do it for sake of brevity. What distinguishes the Soviet period is not central planning, but the attempt to replace prices with commands entirely. In this sense the command economy has proven to be an unmitigated disaster and with the exception of certain extreme situations in time of war should never be contemplated.

It's hard for me to make much distinction between governmental central planning and firm planning because they are so intermingled. Just watch any new program on business news and there is a seamless discussion that moves from Federal Reserve intentions to quarterly profit reports to Congressional budget battles, all with a comments on what each means for the broader economy. The most watched housing report (Schiller, who just won his Nobel) is a private number, as is the second most watched employment number (ADP). If you don't like the CBO projections Wharton Econometrics will be happy to sell you a subscription. The macroeconomic data collection and reporting industry is part government and part private and the two parts are sometimes hard to distinguish. The incidence of taxation paper currently all the rage is a couple of professors who had access to SOI raw tax data to process.
 
Economic planning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Economic planning refers to a coordinating mechanism outside the mechanisms of the market. There are various types of planning procedures and different ways of conducting economic planning. As a coordinating mechanism for socialism and an alternative to the market, planning is defined as a direct allocation of resources; contrasted to the indirect allocation of the market.


I think what you were really after is the difference between direct and indirect allocation.

"Direct allocation" is an euphemism for "command". In my day the usual term was command and the drift to other phrases has been gradual, but I still prefer the more evocative term. When the director of Tractor Plant #5 gets his annual quota from Gosplan, it seems a little silly to me to call it a "direct allocation" when the consequences of failure included a bullet. I guess this is a result of studying the Soviet economy rather than the French.
 

Forum List

Back
Top