Centrist Dem Leader: Has Committee Votes To Block Health Bill

[Oddball]

Screw you with your something for nothing. The insurance companies found a way to get me out of the system. I was able to afford the $6000 to $7000 per year for my healthcare, but no, I can't afford the $14,000 to $16,000 it will cost me now. So if I get really sick now, I'll lose any assets I do have, and then I'll end up on Medicaid and your stupid ass will help pay the bill. Just brilliant, isn't it?

But hey, in ten to twenty years, when half the God Damn country is without insurance, you can bet your ass, the government will take over completely. Then you can kiss your options goodbye, because people like you don't want to deal with the problem now.

And screw you with your attitude of entitlement to a third party picking up the tab for your bills.....THAT is what the real problem is here.

You whine and cry about the possibility of having to go on Medicaid, yet have no qualms about forcing everyone else into that same fucked up program so you can spread the misery around.

TFB for you...Life's tough, shit happens, wear a fucking helmet.

 

[elvis]

Great post and article. I think their projections are a bit high too soon, but this is exactly where we are headed without some major changes, and it will bankrupt this entire country.

but what they are planing will bankrupt us also
so why do it?

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

and this action obama is trying won't bankrupt us? christ, he's spending like it's monopoly money.

 

[DiveCon]

Great post and article. I think their projections are a bit high too soon, but this is exactly where we are headed without some major changes, and it will bankrupt this entire country.

but what they are planing will bankrupt us also
so why do it?

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

but you are talking about it taking DECADES to bankrupt us, where as what they are planning now will do it much faster

 

[auditor0007]

They cost so much more than projected because people are living so much longer and needing care for a much longer period of time, at least that is the case with Medicare. You want us to believe Medicare is over budget because it is poorly run, which is not the case. But nice try.

Bullshit.

It costs more because there's no market mechanism to contain costs.

Make all the lame assed excuses you want, the simple fact remains that you cannot name just one bloated federal program that has ever come in under budget and delivered a superior product.

Tell me, has private healthcare come in under budget? Oh that's right, in the private sector the budget is as much as the market can bare. Well, the market can't bare much more.

And in case you haven't researched it, the CBO estimates show Medicare costs to continue rising as a percentage of GDP, but the biggest rise in healthcare costs as part of GDP will come in the private sector. Their estimates project that healthcare spending will hit 49% of GDP by 2082, and that is with some drastic cuts in spending. If they stuck with the rate of growth in healthcare spending over the last thirty years, total GDP for healthcare spending would go beyond 100% of GDP by 2082.

So the private sector under the current situation creates a much worse scenario than the public option.

 

[auditor0007]

Screw you with your something for nothing. The insurance companies found a way to get me out of the system. I was able to afford the $6000 to $7000 per year for my healthcare, but no, I can't afford the $14,000 to $16,000 it will cost me now. So if I get really sick now, I'll lose any assets I do have, and then I'll end up on Medicaid and your stupid ass will help pay the bill. Just brilliant, isn't it?

But hey, in ten to twenty years, when half the God Damn country is without insurance, you can bet your ass, the government will take over completely. Then you can kiss your options goodbye, because people like you don't want to deal with the problem now.

And screw you with your attitude of entitlement to a third party picking up the tab for your bills.....THAT is what the real problem is here.

You whine and cry about the possibility of having to go on Medicaid, yet have no qualms about forcing everyone else into that same fucked up program so you can spread the misery around.

TFB for you...Life's tough, shit happens, wear a fucking helmet.

Well TFB for you when this system collapses and your arrogance leads you to a system that offers you no options whatsoever. And guess what, you will be forced into that fucked up system because you can't see past today. Talk about having your head in the sand.

 

[auditor0007]

Who cares what my ideas are??....You sure as hell don't. You're just all about getting something for nothing.

So I say fuck it...I'll just play the role you freeloaders assume is the default "let 'em die in the streets" position, and be done with it.

Screw you with your something for nothing. The insurance companies found a way to get me out of the system. I was able to afford the $6000 to $7000 per year for my healthcare, but no, I can't afford the $14,000 to $16,000 it will cost me now. So if I get really sick now, I'll lose any assets I do have, and then I'll end up on Medicaid and your stupid ass will help pay the bill. Just brilliant, isn't it?

But hey, in ten to twenty years, when half the God Damn country is without insurance, you can bet your ass, the government will take over completely. Then you can kiss your options goodbye, because people like you don't want to deal with the problem now.

i'd rather wait those 20 years than to do it NOW

Good luck. Along with all those not having insurance, you can bet unemployment will be higher than you can even fathom. Our economy will completely crash and burn. Think about it; how many companies would be viable today if they had to foot a bill of $24,000 per year to cover their employees health insurance?

 

[DiveCon]

Screw you with your something for nothing. The insurance companies found a way to get me out of the system. I was able to afford the $6000 to $7000 per year for my healthcare, but no, I can't afford the $14,000 to $16,000 it will cost me now. So if I get really sick now, I'll lose any assets I do have, and then I'll end up on Medicaid and your stupid ass will help pay the bill. Just brilliant, isn't it?

But hey, in ten to twenty years, when half the God Damn country is without insurance, you can bet your ass, the government will take over completely. Then you can kiss your options goodbye, because people like you don't want to deal with the problem now.

i'd rather wait those 20 years than to do it NOW

Good luck. Along with all those not having insurance, you can bet unemployment will be higher than you can even fathom. Our economy will completely crash and burn. Think about it; how many companies would be viable today if they had to foot a bill of $24,000 per year to cover their employees health insurance?

and yyou think it wont by adding $2 TRILLION more debt per year?

 

[auditor0007]

but what they are planing will bankrupt us also
so why do it?

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

and this action obama is trying won't bankrupt us? christ, he's spending like it's monopoly money.

Bush bailed out the banks. Obama just followed through, so they're both at fault there. They needed to do something with the banks, but the way they did it was a mess and way too expensive. The stimulus was a joke and unnecessary as was bailing out the car companies. They should have forced the car companies into bankruptcy first rather then doling out all that money up front.

But healthcare is another story. Should the government be running the show? Maybe, maybe not. What I do know is that the current situation is unsustainable and the Republicans have only fought to keep things the way they are, and that will not work. What it will do is completely destroy our economy.

 

[auditor0007]

but what they are planing will bankrupt us also
so why do it?

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

but you are talking about it taking DECADES to bankrupt us, where as what they are planning now will do it much faster

Finding a way to control longterm cost now will not bankrupt us later. Putting this off until our kids need to deal with it will.

 

[DiveCon]

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

but you are talking about it taking DECADES to bankrupt us, where as what they are planning now will do it much faster

Finding a way to control longterm cost now will not bankrupt us later. Putting this off until our kids need to deal with it will.

the plan they are proposing the CBO says is unsustainable
how does that fix anything?

 

[auditor0007]

i'd rather wait those 20 years than to do it NOW

Good luck. Along with all those not having insurance, you can bet unemployment will be higher than you can even fathom. Our economy will completely crash and burn. Think about it; how many companies would be viable today if they had to foot a bill of $24,000 per year to cover their employees health insurance?

and yyou think it wont by adding $2 TRILLION more debt per year?

Please show me anywhere that states this healthcare plan will put us in debt by $2 trillion per year. You are using the current debt that includes stimulus spending, the bailout of the banks, and everything else.

Again, I'm still willing to listen to reasonable options, and I've even made some of my own. But we can't leave it as it is, and there are going to be changes. And for those who don't want the government running the entire show, you better start coming up with some real good ideas that address both costs and coverage, because as the costs continue to rise, the liklihood of the government taking it over completely will increase exponentially as more and more become uninsured.

 

[DiveCon]

Good luck. Along with all those not having insurance, you can bet unemployment will be higher than you can even fathom. Our economy will completely crash and burn. Think about it; how many companies would be viable today if they had to foot a bill of $24,000 per year to cover their employees health insurance?

and yyou think it wont by adding $2 TRILLION more debt per year?

Please show me anywhere that states this healthcare plan will put us in debt by $2 trillion per year. You are using the current debt that includes stimulus spending, the bailout of the banks, and everything else.

Again, I'm still willing to listen to reasonable options, and I've even made some of my own. But we can't leave it as it is, and there are going to be changes. And for those who don't want the government running the entire show, you better start coming up with some real good ideas that address both costs and coverage, because as the costs continue to rise, the liklihood of the government taking it over completely will increase exponentially as more and more become uninsured.

since when do government programs ever only cost what they project?
and they are already projecting $1.4(or more) trillion for this plan

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Again, I wanna throw this out there, just to see if anybody responds: In every developed country IN THE WORLD besides America there are health care plans; almost everybody is insured IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES; LIKE THE US, you know, not shitty ass backwater shiteholes, I'm talking about Europe and East Asian economic giants throughout history. Almost universally; these countries manage to cover their entire population with even less money than the US; you know, like they insure EVERYBODY and each person's (per capita) health coverage is WAYYYY lower than in the US: So my question is, besides ideological jokes like "America is a rugged inidvidualist nation" can these things be reconciled?

I mean, the libertarians out there like to claim that either 1) the free market will cover everyone or that 2) well, health care is something you gotta work for, and if you didn't, you deserve to die or steal from the taxpayers, becuase you just don't deserve it, you didn't plan for the future. I personally think this is a silly thing to argue for: if everybody is covered that eliminates a huge hurdle for most people who simply can't afford it: whose ancestors won't be able to afford it either. If you cover everyone that elmiminates the continuum that if one is not insured the rest won't; and it allows everybody to follow their career choices without having to worry about whether it has health benefits or not; because everybody is covered.

I would also like to pre-empt the argument that without these non-national health insurances there is no competition to make new drugs. This is a complete distortion of the truth. The fact is that medicine-innovating companies have nothing to do with national health plans. Dozens of the most successful medical R&D firms are European, or Indian, or even Chinese, and from all over. Health R&D has nothing to do with private coverage; they are separate, and they actually BENEFIT from government-funded plans, linkages and connections between national and private univerisities and such; there is NO SUCH WAY TO LINK IT. EVEN in National Health Care Plans; i.e. Costa Rica's for example. the NHP [National Heath Plan] is constitutionally mandated to buy even the most expensive brand-name drugs to treat patients' illnesses. And these drugs are produced and bought from from any and every sort of company in the world. These are separate issues; and whoever tries to defend private health coverage through R&D justifications does not understand the issue.

The main problem left is really waiting lines; which are experienced in many countries with NHPs. I mean, in Costa Rica this is a gigantic problem; and in actually rich countries these are problems; but we have to remember that America is the RICHEST country. Per capita GDP [nominal] is 10 times what it is in Costa Rica; and there are tons of doctors [more than in Costa Rica, which I'm using because I'm from there and because it's an underdeveloped country with which I'm familiar with], how can you guys simply not afford to make an affordable plan with less waiting lines when it is SO much cheapre elsewhere? I know that Americans like to think of themselves as innovators and "mavericks" and "rugged individualists"; but surely there must be some things that you can learn from other places that work; like other places have learnt from America things that have worked, right?? That's not such a far-fetched idea.

Maybe the current health bill isn't the answer; but Americans have to realize that it will take money and it will take some sacrifices; but that at the same time 1/6 (50 million) of their people can't afford HEALTH CARE; which is a RIGHT in most DEVELOPED [read: not 'socialist' backwarer shitholes, but THE happiest, most advanced, equal, and tolerant societies in the world] countries. There is such a wide menu and ways to do it, you guys have to find a way to reconcile these different ways and adapt it to your own: it's the only way to truly take advantage of that huge chunk that remains less-than-productive and less-than-healthy than what should be the NORM in developed countries such as your own.

 

[Bfgrn]

Great post and article. I think their projections are a bit high too soon, but this is exactly where we are headed without some major changes, and it will bankrupt this entire country.

but what they are planing will bankrupt us also
so why do it?

This is what I love. Rather than addressing the problem, you want to leave it alone, knowing it will bankrupt us all. Everyone saw this coming ten years ago, yet nobody wanted to address this. Now that someone is trying to, the answer is that we better leave it the way it is? Come on, use some common sense here. At least offer a better solution.

Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.

By Lee Iacocca

Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.

Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.

I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.

http://www.leeiacocca.net/thoughts-on-leadership/health-care.aspx

 

[editec]

Toomuchtime believes that:

If you are uninsured for any reason, you can get fairly comprehensive routine medical and dental care, even for mild to moderate chronic condition like diabetes, at a variety of free clinics located throughout the US.

News to me. I am aware that people can show up at some ERs to get some services.

As to dental care?

That's pretty rare.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Yay! Everything's going to stay the same! 50 Million People still won't have healthcare! And insurance companies are going to keep fucking you in the ass! Isn't that awesome?

Good job, guys. *thumbs up*

ASS oon, errr, as soon as you use the term "50 million people" it proves you are more interested in propaganda and arent interested in the truth and an honest discussion on the topic.

It falls right in with:
10 % of the population is homosexual
the world is flat, etc

 

[Harry Dresden]

They should've just put it off for next year.

Your right, they should have. But, Obama has his shove it in your face attitude with all these bills. If done right a good healthcare bill could work, but not on a time frame that has been laid for it. There are ways that it could work, but not in it's current wording. The government needs to step back, and not bully it through. Obama knows he has a short window of opportunity before he really loses major support, and possibly seats in the House and Senate. This is what's driving his timetable.

and to put 300 million people on it is no easy undertaking....and not one of these pro-NHC fuckers are talking about the frigging mountains that may have to be scaled to get it done....this is something that may take awhile....not just sign on the dotted line and WHOOSH its done like they are making it out to be.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

No one is cheering for the status quo. What Obama doesn't seem to get yet, is that it isn't enough to just to something, anything about it. It needs to be the right solution and as a lefty his first idea for a solution for a problem is going to be let goverment handle it.

And do you know how they will fuck it up? The lobbyists will be involved in writing up the bill.

And you know this is true.

how much is boss paying you to fuck around on the internet at work?

our boy is the top salesman there El.....he can be afforded a little slack....plus that,he and the manager teabag each other at lunch...

 

[toomuchtime_]

Toomuchtime believes that:

If you are uninsured for any reason, you can get fairly comprehensive routine medical and dental care, even for mild to moderate chronic condition like diabetes, at a variety of free clinics located throughout the US.

News to me. I am aware that people can show up at some ERs to get some services.

As to dental care?

That's pretty rare.

Then this should be an educational experience for you. Check out free clinics that exist almost everywhere in the US and are already being paid for by your tax dollars:

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

Federally-funded health centers care for you, even if you have no health insurance. You pay what you can afford, based on your income. Health centers provide:

checkups when you're well

treatment when you're sick

complete care when you're pregnant

immunizations and checkups for your children

dental care and prescription drugs for your family

mental health and substance abuse care if you need it

Health centers are in most cities and many rural areas. Type in your address and click the 'Find Health Centers' button to find health centers near you.

Next try googling "free clinic (city name)" to get a list of other free clinics. For example "free clinic nyc" gave this list.

free clinic nyc - Google Search

In addition, virtually every medical, dental or podiatry school in the country, as well as most large teaching hospitals, runs a clinic that provides services for free or on a sliding scale basis depending on your income.

Clearly these resources put affordable routine medical and dental care within reach of every American, including all low income uninsured Americans. And no one in America need go into debt, let alone go bankrupt, to get these services. All that is lacking in our present system is coverage for diagnostic and therapeutic procedures that cannot be provided through these clinics, and that can be fixed, relatively inexpensively, with catastrophic coverage that kicks in only for services the clinics cannot provide.

Clearly, when Pelosi, Rangel, Frank, Kennedy, Dodd, etc., and most especially Obama, paint dire pictures of low income families taking their sick children to ER's because no other health care is available to them, they are lying, and this whole drive to insanely mortgage our economy with an unneeded overhaul of our health insurance system is driven by ideological and political ambitions and not by any concern for health outcomes for the uninsured.

The fastest and cheapest way to provide comprehensive health care for those not presently insured is to provide tax incentives for individuals and corporations to increase charitable giving to free clinics not affiliated with the government, along with government grants where necessary, and sliding scale subsidies for catastrophic coverage for those services the clinics cannot provide.

 

[Harry Dresden]

But you gotta love Dude's ideas. He thinks we shouldn't have insurance at all, just pay cash for your healthcare. Then those who can't afford it should be denied any treatment. Now that's a great plan, don't you think?

show us where Dude said this....i think YOU are saying this to make it seem like Dude wants this....you know a spin on what he said....