Chains or Liberty?

[usfan]

..just a couple of quotes from early Americans.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~Samuel Adams

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death! ~Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775

Liberty is America's gift to the world. Before America's birth, there were only state centered regimes.. kings, emporers, caliphs, potentates, lords & rulers. America brought the idea of freedom for the common man into reality. It has grown & spread throughout the world. But now, the birth place of freedom is under attack. Power hungry men & movements want to take individual freedom, & run it through the state. This is not the America my ancestors died for. This is not the America the world looked to for a model of freedom. This is just another state run bureaucracy, taking the money & the freedoms of the people & corrupting the ideal of America.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How about Rights and Responsibilities, for a change.

 

[usfan]

How about Rights and Responsibilities, for a change.

Whose? The people? The state? The politicians? .. but any focus on rights & responsibility would certainly be a change, in this modern culture..

 

[whitehall]

What's the point? Is it about wealth? Taken it out of context the phrase "if you love wealth" sounds selfish but within the context of the American Revolution when the Founding Fathers risked both their lives and fortunes to achieve liberty it makes perfect sense.

 

[usfan]

What's the point? Is it about wealth? Taken it out of context the phrase "if you love wealth" sounds selfish but within the context of the American Revolution when the Founding Fathers risked both their lives and fortunes to achieve liberty it makes perfect sense.

Yes, freedom is never free. It does not keep, is not hereditary, & requires constant vigilance.

 

[Mr Natural]

The feds aren't the problem, all they do is take your money and leave you alone.

It's the locals who are the oppressors. I'm involved in a situation right now with the town building department who in addition to extorting money from me over meaningless details, are forcing me to jump through all kinds of time consuming and costly hoops while invading my privacy and violating my rights to private property.

Sometimes I think I can't decide whether I'm dealing with the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany.

And my elected officials are 100% useless.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What's the point? Is it about wealth? Taken it out of context the phrase "if you love wealth" sounds selfish but within the context of the American Revolution when the Founding Fathers risked both their lives and fortunes to achieve liberty it makes perfect sense.

Yes, freedom is never free. It does not keep, is not hereditary, & requires constant vigilance.

And fearful reactionaries are the greatest threat to our freedom, those hostile to change, diversity, and dissent; seeking to compel conformity through force of law.

 

[usfan]

And fearful reactionaries are the greatest threat to our freedom, those hostile to change, diversity, and dissent; seeking to compel conformity through force of law.

I don't see those 'fearful reactionaries'. I see mandating manipulators, using Law as an instrument of plunder, to further the Great Fiction. They are slowly stripping us of our freedoms, stealing the fruits of our labors, & furthering a system of corrupt cronyism, graft, & looting. They are the ones using Law to push their agenda. Any push back from constitutional Americans is to preserve our freedoms.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And fearful reactionaries are the greatest threat to our freedom, those hostile to change, diversity, and dissent; seeking to compel conformity through force of law.

I don't see those 'fearful reactionaries'. I see mandating manipulators, using Law as an instrument of plunder, to further the Great Fiction. They are slowly stripping us of our freedoms, stealing the fruits of our labors, & furthering a system of corrupt cronyism, graft, & looting. They are the ones using Law to push their agenda. Any push back from constitutional Americans is to preserve our freedoms.

Another taxes = slavery fan.

 

[usfan]

Another taxes = slavery fan.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is... legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay ... If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system. ~Frederic Bastiat

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Another taxes = slavery fan.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is... legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay ... If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system. ~Frederic Bastiat

Case in point.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Progressives are trying to progress us backwards towards Feudalism, look to black american for the future they desire.

 

[usfan]

Case in point.

No, its nothing new. Fleecing the working man has been popular for millennia. It never goes out of style. Those who loot the producers can always find useful tools to support their plundering.. for a price. they usually work cheap, too. The looters get rich, the moochers barely survive, & the worker gets screwed. I take it you're a fan of that system?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Case in point.

No, its nothing new. Fleecing the working man has been popular for millennia. It never goes out of style. Those who loot the producers can always find useful tools to support their plundering.. for a price. they usually work cheap, too. The looters get rich, the moochers barely survive, & the worker gets screwed. I take it you're a fan of that system?

I'm a fan of what works. Paying a fair rate of taxes on income works.

 

[occupied]

Progressives are trying to progress us backwards towards Feudalism, look to black american for the future they desire.

Feudalism was a system where the aristocracy owned everything and were untouchable by the rabble through any legal process and the aristocracy felt no particular responsibility towards the people they had total control over. Sounds like a libertarian wet dream to me.

 

[bripat9643]

Case in point.

No, its nothing new. Fleecing the working man has been popular for millennia. It never goes out of style. Those who loot the producers can always find useful tools to support their plundering.. for a price. they usually work cheap, too. The looters get rich, the moochers barely survive, & the worker gets screwed. I take it you're a fan of that system?

I'm a fan of what works. Paying a fair rate of taxes on income works.

There is no "fair rate" of theft.

 

[bripat9643]

Progressives are trying to progress us backwards towards Feudalism, look to black american for the future they desire.

Feudalism was a system where the aristocracy owned everything and were untouchable by the rabble through any legal process and the aristocracy felt no particular responsibility towards the people they had total control over. Sounds like a libertarian wet dream to me.

Really? I refer you to Hillary Clinton who fits your description to a 'T.'

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Case in point.

No, its nothing new. Fleecing the working man has been popular for millennia. It never goes out of style. Those who loot the producers can always find useful tools to support their plundering.. for a price. they usually work cheap, too. The looters get rich, the moochers barely survive, & the worker gets screwed. I take it you're a fan of that system?

I'm a fan of what works. Paying a fair rate of taxes on income works.

There is no "fair rate" of theft.

The fuck there isn't, Bripiss. 50% on everything over 500k. And don't piss your diapers about it, there's no free lunch.

 

[Clementine]

How about Rights and Responsibilities, for a change.

Take your message to the streets of Baltimore and start preaching.

 

[usfan]

I'm a fan of what works. Paying a fair rate of taxes on income works.

Yes, slavery & oppression works.. at least for a while. Taxing & plundering the working man also works, ..for a while. But using Law to fleece the producers is not a long term strategy for success. What works there is fair, reasonable, minimal demands on the working man. Constant plundering of the working man is a recipe for revolution. That works, too. But a more reasonable approach would be to modify the system.. reform it so it is more faithful to its mission statement of protecting life, liberty, & property, instead of being a tool of looters to plunder the working man & enslave him.