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"And I am still waiting for a cite to that Yemeni decree that allegedly forces conversions to Islam on Jewish children in the event a child becomes an orphan."
L'il sherrithing, I has a sad about your extreme lack of comprehension. The AUTHOR of the book you quoted gave the citation you are insisting upon: that was at the very end of his footnote.
"And I am still waiting for a cite to that Yemeni decree that allegedly forces conversions to Islam on Jewish children in the event a child becomes an orphan."
L'il sherrithing, I has a sad about your extreme lack of comprehension. The AUTHOR of the book you quoted gave the citation you are insisting upon: that was at the very end of his footnote.
The author cites a book, there is no reference to a Yemeni Statute. And there is no link to the book, so I have no idea how to evaluate the claim. I have no access to that book. A decree addresses an alleged law.
Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.If it's cultural why was it not practiced in Iran during the Shah's time, but when Islamists took over, it became totally legal and acceptable?Child marriage is cultural and it is the culture present where it is practiced that leads to the practice.
There is no law forcing child marriage on people.
That is why in countries where it is common, you see the practice among people of different religions in those countries. Like Yemen, we have seen Muslims and Jews arrange child marriages for their children.
An inconvenient truth.
The Shah was a dictator and had the ability to force social change on a medievil culture in much the same way the British ended the practice of sati in India. That didn't necessarily stop it in the provinces and rural districts where it most likely continued quietly. As to why it resurfaced - because Iranian Islamists represent the most fundamentalist cult of Islam and child marriage is in accordance with that fundamentalist approach.
The photo below shows two little girls, recent immigrants from Yemen to Israel. The girl on the left is said to be married, the girl on the right is not. They look about age 8 or 9.
"The Yemenite girl was often engaged to be married before she was twelve years old, and she was not able to choose her future husband. When young children were orphaned, there was a danger that the Yemenis might force their conversion to Islam and remove them from the Jewish community. Thus, marriages of very young people were often arranged to prevent this tragedy. However, it appears that young girls lived with their husbands only after they matured. Marriage to older men was not unknown, and neither was polygamy. The major circumstance leading to polygamy was the practice of*levirate marriage*(a religious obligation to marry the wife of a brother who died without issue), which was encouraged among Yemenite Jews even into the twentieth century. Following her wedding, the bride moved to her mother-in-laws house where she joined the pool of female workers, continuing the same arduous tasks that she had been trained for by her own mother."
Yemen and the Yishuv | Jewish Women's Archive
But it is interesting reading also how the Jews of Yemen followed the practice of levirate marriage, that is discussed in the Mishnah verses I cited earlier, in addition to having their daughters enter into child marriages.
Was it culture or religion that primarily explained child marriage among the Jews of Yemen?
I think it was primarily culture, but religion seems to have played a role, too.
Culture and religion are certainly intertwined and these regions are very tribal and not too different I would guess, from the cultures of biblical times. Those are interesting articles Sherri - good post.
The*Talmud*(/ˈtɑːlmʊd,*-məd,*ˈtæl-/;*Hebrew:*תַּלְמוּד*talmūd"instruction, learning", from a*root*lmd*"teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic*Judaism. It is also traditionally referred to as*Shas*(ש״ס, aHebrew*abbreviation of*shisha sedarim, the "six orders". The Talmud has two components. The first part is the*Mishnah*(Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the written compendium of Judaism's*Oral Torah*(Torah meaning "Instruction", "Teaching" in Hebrew). The second part is theGemara*(c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related*Tannaiticwritings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the*Jewish Bible.
Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And one more time, the story in the OP did not happen. You want to claim it happened, you prove it.
Sherry uses yet another thread to promote her insensate Jew hatreds
The islamist apologists continue to deflect accepting responsibility for what islamism allows in terms of child abuse. There are definite clues that there will be continuing abuse of female children in the Islamic Middle East as the very nature of islamist societies establish governments that are based upon religious affiliation to a 7th century Arab warlord. Lets not forget, radical and fundamentalist Islam is easily spread around this region because ideologically these folks believe that 1.) Their religion is right (and all religions believe this, but Judaism doesnt export and Christianity long ago stopped using Crusades and genocide to export Islam is still 7 th century in this regard) and 2.) Islamic ideology has achieved only the ability to keep its adherents shackled to third-world status.
The thread addresses a made up story about a child marriage in Yemen that we have seen no evidence to support it even happened.
Zionists, like you, have been using this story of unfortunate victims of child marriages in Yemen to attack Muslims and Islam.
A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).
You simply cant dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.
It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that somewhere is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.This is not about Islam, it is about the horrible plight of young children forced into marriages by customs in mostly poor countries like Yemen.
You have attempted to make it about Judaism.This is not about Jews.
.Get over yourself
Give me a moment....
Ok. I'm over myself.
It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.Everything is not about Jews and demonizing Muslims.
From the Wiki article:
The Orphans' Decree was introduced in Yemen and obligated the Zaydi state to take under its protection and to educate in Islamic ways any dhimmi (i.e. non-Muslim) child whose parents had died when he or she was a minor. First introduced or revived in the 17th century,[1] the Orphans' Decree was ignored during Ottoman rule (18721918), but was observed during the period of Imam Yahya (19181948).[2] According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".[3]
Although forced conversion is not widely recognized under Islamic laws, historian and Arabist Shelomo Dov Goitein believes that a forced conversion of orphans could have been justified by the revelation attributed to Muhammad that states: "Every person is born to the natural religion [Islam], and only his parents make a Jew or a Christian out of him." [1]
Sherry uses yet another thread to promote her insensate Jew hatreds
The islamist apologists continue to deflect accepting responsibility for what islamism allows in terms of child abuse. There are definite clues that there will be continuing abuse of female children in the Islamic Middle East as the very nature of islamist societies establish “governments” that are based upon religious affiliation to a 7th century Arab warlord. Let’s not forget, radical and fundamentalist Islam is easily spread around this region because ideologically these folks believe that 1.) Their religion is right (and all religions believe this, but Judaism doesn’t export and Christianity long ago stopped using Crusades and genocide to export– Islam is still 7 th century in this regard) and 2.) Islamic ideology has achieved only the ability to keep its adherents shackled to third-world status.
A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).
You simply can’t dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.
It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that “somewhere” is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.
You have attempted to make it about Judaism.
.
Give me a moment....
Ok. I'm over myself.
It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.Everything is not about Jews and demonizing Muslims.
I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.
What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.
It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.
I only brought up practices of nonMuslims outside Yemen with respect to child marriages to point out the Hypocrisy of posters in seeking to blame a religion, Islam, for child marriages. And in that context, I discussed child marriages among Mormons in America and among Jews in Israel.
A little frothy there, Sherry. There are legitimate concerns regarding Islamic ideology and how it is practiced in Islamic countries. There are allowances made for sexual abuse of female children (child marriage), because it is in concert with the "perfect example for humanity. Moslems' religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior. They are an integration of their politics and their religions and the traditions of Muhammud (swish).
You simply cant dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly), because the religions' inventor has established himself as the model for humanity.
It certainly is about Islam. Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs and practices. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that somewhere is the Koran and the example set by the religions inventor.
You have attempted to make it about Judaism.
.
Give me a moment....
Ok. I'm over myself.
It shouldn't be. But in your case, your OCD-like fascination with taking every opportunity to vilify Judaism has put you in a very dark place I'm happy not to be in.
I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.
What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.
It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.
As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.
I refuse to turn the misfortunes of children in Yemen into a Muslim Hate Fest.
What is happening in Yemen with child marriages is not about Islam.
It is about a human rights abuse primarily hurting young girls there.
As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.
The thread is not about Jews, it is about child marriage in Yemen.
Jimmy Carter and the Elders have been advocating against child marriages globally for many years now.
Child marriages are a problem in many developing countries.
So your claim is, the prevalence of child marriages in Muslim countries and societies (especially traditional, religious ones), has NOTHING to do with Islam, or the fact that Mohammad married a 9 year old?
Did you ask your Iranian friends why child marriage was allowed in Iran after the Islamists took over? Was it because the parents "needed the money"? <LOL>
Yep, these countries have been developing over 1400 years and can't seem to make it out of the 7th century. A pity.As you do in every thread you enter, you use it as a vehicle to promote your Jew-hating attitudes... just as you did in this thread.
The thread is not about Jews, it is about child marriage in Yemen.
Jimmy Carter and the Elders have been advocating against child marriages globally for many years now.
Child marriages are a problem in many developing countries.
Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.If it's cultural why was it not practiced in Iran during the Shah's time, but when Islamists took over, it became totally legal and acceptable?
An inconvenient truth.
The Shah was a dictator and had the ability to force social change on a medievil culture in much the same way the British ended the practice of sati in India. That didn't necessarily stop it in the provinces and rural districts where it most likely continued quietly. As to why it resurfaced - because Iranian Islamists represent the most fundamentalist cult of Islam and child marriage is in accordance with that fundamentalist approach.
From the Wiki article:
The Orphans' Decree was introduced in Yemen and obligated the Zaydi state to take under its protection and to educate in Islamic ways any dhimmi (i.e. non-Muslim) child whose parents had died when he or she was a minor. First introduced or revived in the 17th century,[1] the Orphans' Decree was ignored during Ottoman rule (1872–1918), but was observed during the period of Imam Yahya (1918–1948).[2] According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".[3]
Although forced conversion is not widely recognized under Islamic laws, historian and Arabist Shelomo Dov Goitein believes that a forced conversion of orphans could have been justified by the revelation attributed to Muhammad that states: "Every person is born to the natural religion [Islam], and only his parents make a Jew or a Christian out of him." [1]
You know what, a law in effect from 1918 to 1948 really does not add much to explaining a custom of child marriages in Yemen that goes back in time hundreds of years.
The fact is child marriages in Yemen occur and have been embraced by people there of different religions and the explanation for it is that it is cultural to Yemen society.
