Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[MHunterB]

I see I didn't exactly make myself clear. OK, 'fundamentalist' doesn't always mean 'raving wild-eyed lunatics out to force their ways on everyone else' - a very obvious example of this would be the Amish/Mennonite/Hutterite and associated communities. Or the super tiny community of Ebionites who live in South Jersey (NJ, USA). Or even the FLDS, who tend to leave everyone else alone and want to be left alone as well.

THAT's what I was trying to convey by stating that the Taliban and etc are not 'fundamentalists' - that 'fundamentalism' alone doesn't describe their views, it doesn't truly describe their behavior.

 

[irosie91]

From your source:

◾No one religious affiliation was associated with child marriage, according to a 2007 ICRW study. Rather, a variety of religions are associated with child marriage in countries throughout the world

Child Marriage Hot Spots


Rank Country Name % girls married before 18
1 Niger 75
2 Chad 68
3 Central African Republic 68
4 Bangladesh 66
5 Guinea 63
6 Mozambique 56
7 Mali 55
8 Burkina Faso 52
9 South Sudan 52
10 Malawi 50
11 Madagascar 48
12 Eritrea 47
13 India 47
14 Somalia 45
15 Sierra Leone 44
16 Zambia 42
17 Dominican Republic 41
18 Ethiopia 41
19 Nepal 41
20 Nicaragua 41

Yemen is not even in the top 20 countries in your list.

I think - Marge is not arguing against you here Sherri. Not totally. Her post, which you quoted from - talked about culture, including religion as part of that culture as being partly causative. You can't always seperate culture from religion.

The fact that so many non-Muslim countries factor into this list is indicative that religion isn't a primary factor though.

I am just trying to nail down what is actually set forth in this report, to be distinquished from Marge's commentary on the report.

you did not come close to "NAILING" anything-----you did not even define "child marriage"-----the subject of this thread is a 40 year old man banging an eight year old
to death-------not whether or not two sixteen year old kids can marry, A REAL study on
old mean banging babies to death would take LOTS MORE DATA than you have

 

[MHunterB]

Going back to 'Yemen isn't on the top 20 list':

That list depends on what is *reported* to those seeking to gather information. In quite a few nations, that is apt to be difficult - the least of problems is the difficulty of travel and 'locals' who are non-cooperative. In many 'tribal' areas where 'national' law doesn't operate, that lack of cooperation might be anything up to murder simply for being an 'outsider' and asking questions.

Anything which touches upon women's sexuality is apt to be distorted in such overly-patriarchal societies - researchers may not even be allowed to talk directly with women unless some adult male relative is present due to their societal rules. Not to mention that the men get annoyed about people being more interested in the activities of females than of themselves....

 

[irosie91]

Going back to 'Yemen isn't on the top 20 list':

That list depends on what is *reported* to those seeking to gather information. In quite a few nations, that is apt to be difficult - the least of problems is the difficulty of travel and 'locals' who are non-cooperative. In many 'tribal' areas where 'national' law doesn't operate, that lack of cooperation might be anything up to murder simply for being an 'outsider' and asking questions.

Anything which touches upon women's sexuality is apt to be distorted in such overly-patriarchal societies - researchers may not even be allowed to talk directly with women unless some adult male relative is present due to their societal rules. Not to mention that the men get annoyed about people being more interested in the activities of females than of themselves....

Marge----thanks------you DID IT FOR ME CANDID is simply not yemen.....
EVERYTHING is kept a mystery and everything is a lie. A story which ----cannot be found on the
internet. My own hubby was born in ADEN----which is just about the MOST
civilized city in Yemen -------his birth was registered. fast forward 20 + years---
he is a student in London---------Well ----he COULD legally demand British citizenship
based on being born in the "KINGDOM" He does have a few documents-----so
silly baby that he is he hands them to the Yemeni consulate requesting a confirmation
of his birth city----------guess what------they take the papers-----he never sees them
again and the country denies it EVER HEARD OF HIM

 

[irosie91]

getting back to "reporting" ---muslim countries tend to report -----
NO MENTAL ILLNESS and ---virtually no crime----and most of all NO or almost
no AIDS

Medical School graduates from Muslim countries I have known-----were taught that
"MENTAL ILLNESS IS DUE TO KUFR" (kufr is disbelief in the koran) Some of them
seem to want to believe it.

For years SAUDI ARABIA reported "NO HIV" ------lol ------when they finally
broke down and admitted the truth----they attributed the problem entirely
to "FOREIGN WORKERS"

 

[Roudy]

So your claim is, the prevalence of child marriages in Muslim countries and societies (especially traditional, religious ones), has NOTHING to do with Islam, or the fact that Mohammad married a 9 year old?

Did you ask your Iranian friends why child marriage was allowed in Iran after the Islamists took over? Was it because the parents "needed the money"? <LOL>

That is right, except I acknowledge conservative religious views may contribute to it, conservatism with respect to Islam, conservatism with respect to Hinduism, conservatism with respect to Christianity, conservatism with respect to Judaism.


Child marriages in Iran were an occurence before and after the Revolution.

No they weren't I lived in Iran before the revolution. It was a crime and you'd get punished severely for it, like execution or life imprisonment. You as usual are lying. It is almost NEVER a "cultural" matter with Muslims. They almost exclusively live by what their religion says. And their religion sanctions child marriage. The only thing in the way of religious laws are secular laws, which were implemented by the Shah.

 

[Roudy]

This is data reported on Wikipedia.


Percentage of women aged 20–24 who were married/in union before the age of 18 is listed in the table below. The data from ICRW, if traced all the way to the ultimate sources, is from surveys that are 10 to 20 years old. The UN data is between 10 to 15 years old.


Rank
per ICRW data

Country

% girls married
before 18
(ICRW data)[133]

% girls married
before 18
(UN data)[134]


1 Niger 75 62
2 Chad 72 49
3 Bangladesh 66 48
4 Guinea 63 46
5 Central African Republic 61 42
6 Mali 55 50
7 Mozambique 52 47
8 Malawi 50 37
9 Madagascar 48 34
10 Sierra Leone 48 47
11 Burkina Faso 48 35
12 India 47 30
13 Eritrea 47 38
14 Uganda 46 32
15 Somalia 45 38
16 Nicaragua 43 32
17 Zambia 42 24
18 Ethiopia 41 30
19 Nepal 41 40
20 Dominican Republic 40 29


Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Post the rest of what wikipedia says then, AFRAID OF THE TRUTH?

States with lower marriage age limits saw higher percentages of child marriages.[15] This correlation between higher age of marriage in civil law and observed frequency of child marriages breaks down in countries with Islam as the state religion. In Islamic nations, many countries do not allow child marriage of girls under their civil code of laws. But, the state recognized Sharia religious laws and courts in all these nations have the power to override the civil code, and often do. UNICEF reports that the top five nations in the world with highest observed child marriage rates - Niger (75%), Chad (72%), Mali (71%), Bangladesh (64%), Guinea (63%) - are all Islamic majority countries.[10]

The Child Marriage Restraint Act, 1929 was passed during the tenure of British rule on pre-partition India. It forbade the marriage of a male younger than 21 or a female younger than 18 for Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and most people of India. However, this law did not and currently does not apply to India's 165 million Muslim population, and only applies to India's Hindu, Christian, Jain, Sikh and other religious minorities. This link of law and religion was formalized by the British colonial rule with the Muslim personal laws codified in the Indian Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act of 1937. The age at which India's Muslim girl can legally marry, according to this Muslim Personal Law, is 9 years, and can be lower if her guardian (wali) decides she is sexually mature.[70][71] Over the last 25 years, All India Muslim Personal Law Board and other Muslim civil organizations have actively opposed India-wide laws and enforcement action against child marriages; they have argued that Indian Muslim families have a religious right to marry a girl when her age is 15 or even 12.[72] Several states of India claim specially high child marriage rates in their Muslim and tribal communities.[73] India, with a population of over 1.2 billion, has the world's highest total number of child marriages. It is a significant social issue.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

L.v

Going back to 'Yemen isn't on the top 20 list':

That list depends on what is *reported* to those seeking to gather information. In quite a few nations, that is apt to be difficult - the least of problems is the difficulty of travel and 'locals' who are non-cooperative. In many 'tribal' areas where 'national' law doesn't operate, that lack of cooperation might be anything up to murder simply for being an 'outsider' and asking questions.

Anything which touches upon women's sexuality is apt to be distorted in such overly-patriarchal societies - researchers may not even be allowed to talk directly with women unless some adult male relative is present due to their societal rules. Not to mention that the men get annoyed about people being more interested in the activities of females than of themselves....

Two lists were posted and neither shows Yemen in the top 20 nations for nations where child marriages are most commonly practiced.

 

[toastman]

Hahaha ! Nice one Roudy. You just owned Sherri !

What a biased %&$%%$^$ she is !

Notice how whenever something negative that a Muslim(s) did is presented here, she does whatever she can to defend them and when she gets desperate, she will involve Jews or Israel hahahaha.

 

[toastman]

Oh and Roudy, quote my post because Sherri has me on ignore and I want her to see what I wrote haha thanks

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

So your claim is, the prevalence of child marriages in Muslim countries and societies (especially traditional, religious ones), has NOTHING to do with Islam, or the fact that Mohammad married a 9 year old?

Did you ask your Iranian friends why child marriage was allowed in Iran after the Islamists took over? Was it because the parents "needed the money"? <LOL>

That is right, except I acknowledge conservative religious views may contribute to it, conservatism with respect to Islam, conservatism with respect to Hinduism, conservatism with respect to Christianity, conservatism with respect to Judaism.


Child marriages in Iran were an occurence before and after the Revolution.

No they weren't I lived in Iran before the revolution. It was a crime and you'd get punished severely for it, like execution or life imprisonment. You as usual are lying. It is almost NEVER a "cultural" matter with Muslims. They almost exclusively live by what their religion says. And their religion sanctions child marriage. The only thing in the way of religious laws are secular laws, which were implemented by the Shah.

My husband lived in Iran, too, he grew up there, in Broujerd. And he tells me child marriages occurred in villages in rural areas before the Revolution. They perhaps have increased since then, I have read invonsistent data on that question,.but the religion of the people has not changed, the majority remain Muslims.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Child Marriage in the Context of Shia Iran

"Early marriage, which has been traditionally practiced in Iran , is to a large extent also endorsed and encouraged by Sharia Law. In spite of a considerable reduction in the number of early marriages, they continue to be practiced under various guises. Policies devised to reduce these marriages often pose more questions than they answer, while their implications lead to unforeseen reactions and often result in even more undesirable consequences for all concerned. Early marriage, itself a relatively new concept, is associated with multiple pregnancies. International agencies regard it as harmful to the health, and especially reproductive health, of young women under the age of fifteen.The mortality rate of mothers under the age of fifteen is five times higher than those over twenty year olds. Girls under the age of eighteen are classified as children by international conventions. However, when the Iranian delegation to the Convention of the Rights of the Child (CRC 1998) signed the agreement that defined a child as &#8220;anybody under the age of eighteen&#8221;, it reserved the right not to implement the clauses which were considered against the Islamic ideology. Child marriage is one such area and its practice continues. In reality, the implementation of most of the clauses of the above Convention involves major difficulties and clashes with local laws, traditions and customs. At the same time, most studies concerned with early marriage only address its negative impact and focus on girls from the perspective of &#8216;human rights' and &#8216;violence against women'. Such an approach leaves out the wider social and cultural context within which these marriages take place, which also involves young boys and affects the larger family network; i.e. there is a general neglect to carry out a gender analysis of this trend."

Institute of Social and Cultural Anthropology: Child Marriage in the Context of Shia Iran

 

[Bloodrock44]

That is right, except I acknowledge conservative religious views may contribute to it, conservatism with respect to Islam, conservatism with respect to Hinduism, conservatism with respect to Christianity, conservatism with respect to Judaism.


Child marriages in Iran were an occurence before and after the Revolution.

No they weren't I lived in Iran before the revolution. It was a crime and you'd get punished severely for it, like execution or life imprisonment. You as usual are lying. It is almost NEVER a "cultural" matter with Muslims. They almost exclusively live by what their religion says. And their religion sanctions child marriage. The only thing in the way of religious laws are secular laws, which were implemented by the Shah.

My husband lived in Iran, too, he grew up there, in Broujerd. And he tells me child marriages occurred in villages in rural areas before the Revolution. They perhaps have increased since then, but the religion of the people has not changed, the majority remain Muslims.

Thanks for revealing this tidbit of information ShiaSherri. Now we know the real deal.

 

[Roudy]

The Shah was a dictator and had the ability to force social change on a medievil culture in much the same way the British ended the practice of sati in India. That didn't necessarily stop it in the provinces and rural districts where it most likely continued quietly. As to why it resurfaced - because Iranian Islamists represent the most fundamentalist cult of Islam and child marriage is in accordance with that fundamentalist approach.

Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.

Really? Care to support that statement? I suspect child marriages pre-date Islam in Persia.

I don't have to. I lived it, and previous generations did as well. Very Young girls would get married in the past, as was common, but never at the specific age of 9 coinciding with Aisha's age.

 

[Roudy]

No they weren't I lived in Iran before the revolution. It was a crime and you'd get punished severely for it, like execution or life imprisonment. You as usual are lying. It is almost NEVER a "cultural" matter with Muslims. They almost exclusively live by what their religion says. And their religion sanctions child marriage. The only thing in the way of religious laws are secular laws, which were implemented by the Shah.

My husband lived in Iran, too, he grew up there, in Broujerd. And he tells me child marriages occurred in villages in rural areas before the Revolution. They perhaps have increased since then, but the religion of the people has not changed, the majority remain Muslims.

Thanks for revealing this tidbit of information ShiaSherri. Now we know the real deal.

Still refuses to admit that Islam is the cause. LOL

 

[Roudy]

That is right, except I acknowledge conservative religious views may contribute to it, conservatism with respect to Islam, conservatism with respect to Hinduism, conservatism with respect to Christianity, conservatism with respect to Judaism.


Child marriages in Iran were an occurence before and after the Revolution.

No they weren't I lived in Iran before the revolution. It was a crime and you'd get punished severely for it, like execution or life imprisonment. You as usual are lying. It is almost NEVER a "cultural" matter with Muslims. They almost exclusively live by what their religion says. And their religion sanctions child marriage. The only thing in the way of religious laws are secular laws, which were implemented by the Shah.

My husband lived in Iran, too, he grew up there, in Broujerd. And he tells me child marriages occurred in villages in rural areas before the Revolution. They perhaps have increased since then, I have read invonsistent data on that question,.but the religion of the people has not changed, the majority remain Muslims.

You have child marriage, and then you have child marriage.

14 or 15 year old marriages, sure, they occurred all over the place, Even in the US.

But 9? Nah. These are Islamist trying to legislate what they believe is Islamic law which is based on Aisha's age. I prefer to listen to what the clerics themselves say rather than apologists and liars like yourself.

 

[Hollie]

getting back to "reporting" ---muslim countries tend to report -----
NO MENTAL ILLNESS and ---virtually no crime----and most of all NO or almost
no AIDS

Medical School graduates from Muslim countries I have known-----were taught that
"MENTAL ILLNESS IS DUE TO KUFR" (kufr is disbelief in the koran) Some of them
seem to want to believe it.

For years SAUDI ARABIA reported "NO HIV" ------lol ------when they finally
broke down and admitted the truth----they attributed the problem entirely
to "FOREIGN WORKERS"

You go girl!

That&#8217;s an important point. Reported crime statistics are virtually unobtainable in many parts of the islamist Middle East.

How many women in Pakistan are going to report domestic violence when the result of that reporting could mean their being murdered to preserve the family &#8220;honor&#8221;?

How many women in Afghanistan, Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, etc., are going to report crimes such as rape or the marriage of a child daughter to an older man when the result of that reporting could mean having their throat cut or acid thrown in their face for such betrayal?

 

[Coyote]

Yes, and when the Islamists came to power they allowed it, and cited Islamic reasons for it. Not "cultural". You never get it right. Child marriage was never a "cultural thing" before the Shah.

Really? Care to support that statement? I suspect child marriages pre-date Islam in Persia.

I don't have to. I lived it, and previous generations did as well. Very Young girls would get married in the past, as was common, but never at the specific age of 9 coinciding with Aisha's age.

In other words you can't prove anything about pre-Islamic Persia.

 

[Coyote]

I see I didn't exactly make myself clear. OK, 'fundamentalist' doesn't always mean 'raving wild-eyed lunatics out to force their ways on everyone else' - a very obvious example of this would be the Amish/Mennonite/Hutterite and associated communities. Or the super tiny community of Ebionites who live in South Jersey (NJ, USA). Or even the FLDS, who tend to leave everyone else alone and want to be left alone as well.

THAT's what I was trying to convey by stating that the Taliban and etc are not 'fundamentalists' - that 'fundamentalism' alone doesn't describe their views, it doesn't truly describe their behavior.

That clarifies it - thanks

 

[rhodescholar]

Islam is a cancer, and the sooner it is eradicated from this planet, the better.