Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Jos]

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

Yeshiva University in New York City is the latest Jewish educational institution to be rocked by accusations of extensive pedophilia by rabbis and teachers. Yeshiva, including an elite high school, the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, the Benjamin N. Cardoza School of Law, and an endowment of nearly 1.3 billion dollars is the Harvard of Orthodox Judaism in America. But now 31 former high school and Yeshiva affiliate students allege sexual abuse by two highly respected Yeshiva rabbis during 1969-1989. They are suing Yeshiva U. for 380 million dollars. “Yeshiva University High School held itself out as an exemplary Jewish secondary school when in fact it was allowing known sexual predators to roam the school at will seeking other victims,” said attorney for the plaintiffs, Kevin Mulhearn. Mulhearn asserts that hundreds of boys were sexually molested or sodomized.

Typically, as with other Jewish child abuse scandals in Brooklyn, Sydney, Melbourne, Jerusalem, etc., Yeshiva's administration is evasive. As a result, AIG (American Insurance Group) may not continue insuring it.

Why do Jewish authority figures continue to be accused of pedophilia against primarily Jewish children?

The Talmud, highest authority for modern Talmudic Judaism, endorses pedophilia. It calls it "Halachah" or binding Jewish law!

The Talmudic rabbi most instrumental in persuading rabbis today to indulge in pedophilia is 2nd century A.D. Simeon ben Yohai. It's hard to imagine a rabbinic sage more esteemed than ben Yohai. He is credited by Ultra-Orthodox Jews as the author of the Zohar, or Kabbalah. Every year in Meron in Israel (where ben Yohai died), more than 10,000 Hasidic Jews gather for a week of singing, dancing, and praising ben Yohai, who may well be Kabbalist Judaism's most venerated authority.

In Orthodox Judaism, the most ancient first and second A.D. rabbis, the "Tannaim," are considered most authoritative. This is largely because they lived in Palestine closest in time to the Pharisees, who, originating in Babylon, created the Mishnah (oral law), which later became written down as the Babylonian Talmud. Some “Tanna” receive greater respect from Orthodox Jews than does Moses. Jesus accused the oral law of "making the law of God of none effect."

The Talmud is the greatest religious authority for observant Jews today. It teaches that when sages of ben Yohai’s stature pronounced new laws, they did so out of the memory of what God had taught them in heaven. The Talmud says such memory was imparted to ben Yohai's teacher, Rabbi Akiba: when Moses died he went to heaven and beheld Rabbi Akiba “expounding wondrously on the Torah.” Thus, when ben Yohai authorizes pedophilia in the Talmud, such permission becomes law for Orthodox Jews for all time.

In Yebamoth 60b the Talmud says:

It was taught: R. Simeon ben Yohai stated: ‘A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest. For it is said, But all the women children that have not known men by lying with them, keep for yourselves; and Phinehas surely was with them.’

Ben Yohai’s interpretation comes from Numbers 31:18. The Hebrews, after defeating the Midianites, were allowed to keep virginal females of all ages as wives or potential wives when they sexually matured. Ben Yohai exploited this verse to claim God gives Jews rights to sexual use of females of virtually any age, although he puts the lower bar at three years and a day. Further, he says that because the righteous Phinehas was among the Hebrew congregation who accepted the Midianite women, it means that Phinehas endorsed child sex.

Footnote 5 to this passage says ben Yohai's permission for sex with 3-year-old girls stands for all time.The footnote asks, “How could they [any other rabbi in history], contrary to the opinions of R. Simeon ben Yohai, which has scriptural support, forbid the marriage of the young proselytes?” Clearly, they can't. (The full text of this footnote and the entire passage from the Soncino edition of the Talmud are at the end of this article.)

Thus, the question posed by the Talmud footnote is extremely significant and timely. It says that just as no rabbinic authority can defy ben Yohai’s halachic permission for sex with 3-year-old girls, so no rabbinic authority in any Jewish organization, synagogue, Yeshiva high school, college, or seminary today is empowered to declare that pedophilia for the Jew is wrong!

NPN Article: Judaism's Pedophilia Begins with Rabbi ben Yohai

 

[irosie91]

It seems that a basic element of the issue surrounding child marriage is the unholy allowance for it in islamist ideology.

Education and improving economies can be a solution in non-islamist nations and cultures. Not necessarily so in islamism. In Islam, muhammud (swish), is the central authority, king, Fuhrer and unquestionable figurehead. As the role model for humanity, his words and actions serve as the example not only for moslems but for all humankind.

If you earnestly believe that something is "perfect" as claimed by a 7th century warlord who claims he heard voices from the gods, most of us would dismiss it as irrelevant. When you are raised in an environment that bestows godhead on that man, you won't endeavor to "fix" it. You won't alter it to accommodate changing times and differing values—you will instead demand that the times and values adapt to accommodate your perfect, divinely decreed way of life. And if anyone dares to challenge your convictions in this regard, you try to kill them. With God's imprimatur.

This is precisely what we see taking place across the islamist world.

Actually, it already has an effect on child marriages in Islamic countries.

quite a vague comment there....... The FACT is that even amongst immigrant
groups in the USA and in Great Britain ------FORCED MARRIAGES amongst muslims
are quite common. I should add that the term "child marriage" is very vague and
not really descriptive of an abusive situation In Maryland, USA -----two 14 year old
kids can marry. For me abuse of----mostly women ---but even of boys ---includes
FORCED MARRIAGE and for muslim girls that often includes age disparate marriage
and marriage related to business deals or "compensation" for some alleged crime.
Another issue is family supported abuse of women------a personal observation-----
amongst muslim women in abusive relationships----the last persons a girl can
depends on are her own parents and brothers. I do believe that amongst very
impoverished Hindus in India----the same may be true-----but also (on personal
observation) find hindu families in the USA and among affluent hindus----very
supportive (you can go right ahead and snarl-----"so you know every hindu and
every muslim in the world"----since you like to prove yourself not so bright)

MOST muslims of the world are both illiterate and impoverished-----a bad prognosis
for improvement based on your personally generated criteria. Illiterate impoverished
muslims tend to be very much into conservative islam-------that is how the Ayatoilets
got into power------if the voting were restricted to TEHERAN-----they would not have
had a chance.

Osama bin laden was highly educated -----he had a university degree in Engineering.
Pakistani informants have told me that the TALIBAN ----are derived from the University
Campuses of Pakistan-----the cream of PROPEROUS AND EDUCATED PAKISTANI
YOUTH. In the early 90s----young docs even bragged about the relatives and
classmates who went "noble taliban"

but then again-----who cares----this entire thread is idiotic especially the prevalent
rule that anyone marrying under the age of 18 is engaged in a barbaric 'child
marriage'

 

[Hossfly]

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

Yeshiva University in New York City is the latest Jewish educational institution to be rocked by accusations of extensive pedophilia by rabbis and teachers. Yeshiva, including an elite high school, the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, the Benjamin N. Cardoza School of Law, and an endowment of nearly 1.3 billion dollars is the Harvard of Orthodox Judaism in America. But now 31 former high school and Yeshiva affiliate students allege sexual abuse by two highly respected Yeshiva rabbis during 1969-1989. They are suing Yeshiva U. for 380 million dollars. “Yeshiva University High School held itself out as an exemplary Jewish secondary school when in fact it was allowing known sexual predators to roam the school at will seeking other victims,” said attorney for the plaintiffs, Kevin Mulhearn. Mulhearn asserts that hundreds of boys were sexually molested or sodomized.

Typically, as with other Jewish child abuse scandals in Brooklyn, Sydney, Melbourne, Jerusalem, etc., Yeshiva's administration is evasive. As a result, AIG (American Insurance Group) may not continue insuring it.

Why do Jewish authority figures continue to be accused of pedophilia against primarily Jewish children?

The Talmud, highest authority for modern Talmudic Judaism, endorses pedophilia. It calls it "Halachah" or binding Jewish law!

The Talmudic rabbi most instrumental in persuading rabbis today to indulge in pedophilia is 2nd century A.D. Simeon ben Yohai. It's hard to imagine a rabbinic sage more esteemed than ben Yohai. He is credited by Ultra-Orthodox Jews as the author of the Zohar, or Kabbalah. Every year in Meron in Israel (where ben Yohai died), more than 10,000 Hasidic Jews gather for a week of singing, dancing, and praising ben Yohai, who may well be Kabbalist Judaism's most venerated authority.

In Orthodox Judaism, the most ancient first and second A.D. rabbis, the "Tannaim," are considered most authoritative. This is largely because they lived in Palestine closest in time to the Pharisees, who, originating in Babylon, created the Mishnah (oral law), which later became written down as the Babylonian Talmud. Some “Tanna” receive greater respect from Orthodox Jews than does Moses. Jesus accused the oral law of "making the law of God of none effect."

The Talmud is the greatest religious authority for observant Jews today. It teaches that when sages of ben Yohai’s stature pronounced new laws, they did so out of the memory of what God had taught them in heaven. The Talmud says such memory was imparted to ben Yohai's teacher, Rabbi Akiba: when Moses died he went to heaven and beheld Rabbi Akiba “expounding wondrously on the Torah.” Thus, when ben Yohai authorizes pedophilia in the Talmud, such permission becomes law for Orthodox Jews for all time.

In Yebamoth 60b the Talmud says:

It was taught: R. Simeon ben Yohai stated: ‘A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest. For it is said, But all the women children that have not known men by lying with them, keep for yourselves; and Phinehas surely was with them.’

Ben Yohai’s interpretation comes from Numbers 31:18. The Hebrews, after defeating the Midianites, were allowed to keep virginal females of all ages as wives or potential wives when they sexually matured. Ben Yohai exploited this verse to claim God gives Jews rights to sexual use of females of virtually any age, although he puts the lower bar at three years and a day. Further, he says that because the righteous Phinehas was among the Hebrew congregation who accepted the Midianite women, it means that Phinehas endorsed child sex.

Footnote 5 to this passage says ben Yohai's permission for sex with 3-year-old girls stands for all time.The footnote asks, “How could they [any other rabbi in history], contrary to the opinions of R. Simeon ben Yohai, which has scriptural support, forbid the marriage of the young proselytes?” Clearly, they can't. (The full text of this footnote and the entire passage from the Soncino edition of the Talmud are at the end of this article.)

Thus, the question posed by the Talmud footnote is extremely significant and timely. It says that just as no rabbinic authority can defy ben Yohai’s halachic permission for sex with 3-year-old girls, so no rabbinic authority in any Jewish organization, synagogue, Yeshiva high school, college, or seminary today is empowered to declare that pedophilia for the Jew is wrong!

NPN Article: Judaism's Pedophilia Begins with Rabbi ben Yohai

I'll defer to some of the Judaic Studies scholars here. Tale it away, Irosie.

 

[Hossfly]

Are you concerned about child abuse and child marriages? Or does it only concern you when it's Muslims?

The countries where the highest number of child marriages occur span religions. Hindu's even have a festival celebrating child brides as business transactions. Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews in western countries and educated affluent regions seldom approve of child marriages.

There was considerable public outrage in other Muslim countries over the situation in the OP forcing the Yemeni government to make a change in it's laws. This seems indicative of change at the public level regarding child marriage in Muslim countries. I'm not sure how much effect it will have - Yemen is desperately poor and that is a major driver in child marriages around the world. They are rare in affluent well educated countries and communities regardless of religion. It's a shame people can't notice things like that and instead focus on demonizing Islam as a whole.

The OP here is promoting an excellent discussion - a much needed discussion. it's also seperating out those who simply want to demonize Islam and those are concerned with child abuse and child marriages.

Interestingly, few seem to want to remark on child abuse or the abuse of women outside of Muslim countries or explore reasons beyond religion. No one is saying religion is not a factor at all (I predict someone is going to claim that is what is being said) - but it is not the primary factor.

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

Well, you do seem to be kicking mightily against the pricks.

 

[Coyote]

Islamic law does not sanction child marriage - The Hindu

It is well known that insofar as its legality is concerned, marriage in Islam is a written covenant between two individuals and as such both have to be adults to understand the responsibilities and intricacies of such an agreement. This prescript, that strikes at the root of the concept of child marriage, is supported by verse 4:6 of the Quran which equates the age of marriage (balaghun nikah) with the age of intellectual maturity (rushd), a stage that comes after the age of puberty. Yet traditions are cited by the jurists to justify child marriage as if to suggest the Prophet allowed what the Koran clearly did not encourage. For instance, Sunni law, without any Koranic or Prophetic basis, empowers the father, granting him the status of wali (guardian), to impose marriage on his minor children in their “best interests.”

In fact, Sec. 2(vii) of the DMMA itself appears to be based on an archaic, sectarian law which states that the marriage contracted on behalf of a minor by any guardian other than the father and paternal grandfather can be revoked by the minor on attaining the age of puberty. This doctrine, which also finds a mention in the Delhi HC ruling, is known as khiyar al-buloogh or, option of puberty. It is based on a report in Abu Dawood's hadess collection, wherein the Prophet is supposed to have given a minor girl the option to repudiate her marriage when she informed him that her father had married her off against her will. But a reading of this hadees shows that the girl in question was not a minor because the word used to describe her is bikran which means a grown-up, virgin. Also, there is no mention of puberty in the report and hence, the Prophet could not have advised her to wait until puberty to exercise her right to divorce.

Even if it is hypothetically assumed that bikran refers to a minor, the wordings of the Abu Dawood hadees clearly indicate that the Prophet had the marriage annulled immediately on knowing from the girl that her consent was not obtained. In a similar narrative mentioned in Sahih Bukhari, the Prophet annulled the marriage of Khansa'a bint-e-Khizaam when she complained to him that her father had forced her into a marriage which was not to her liking. The only inference that could be drawn from these reports is that child or forced marriage has no legal validity in Islam. This conclusion is supported by another hadees, found in both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, in which the Prophet is quoted as saying, “An ayyim (a widow or divorcee) shall not be married till she gives her consent, and nor a bikr (a virgin) be married till her consent is sought.” Therefore, the concept of khiyar-al buloogh is bad in law as it is based on an erroneous premise.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

Well, you do seem to be kicking mightily against the pricks.

I don't like pricks or dicks

 

[Hossfly]

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

Well, you do seem to be kicking mightily against the pricks.

I don't like pricks or dicks

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[irosie91]

regarding the statement ---in sum and substance "child marriage is found
in impoverished countries"------wrong again-----it is a huge problem in Saudi
Arabia------to clarify-----my definition of "child marriage'----is a kid not able to
be on her own ----or simply dependent who is forced to marry someone she does
not like or who is much older-----it does not include two fourteen year olds
who run away to marry One of the problems in AFFLUENT islamic countries
is the custom of MAHR ----which is money paid to the guardian of the girl ----
for getting her 'hand'--------where there is affluence---there is always someone
with a LOT OF MONEY-----and others in need or simply wants more. MAHR is
the basis of lots of forced marriages. There are lots of cases of dead girls---who
refused the man-----thus risking the MAHR -----once mahr is paid and a girl says no----
the "DISHONOR" ----is horrific-----dead girl is better

 

[Roudy]

Islamic law does not sanction child marriage - The Hindu

It is well known that insofar as its legality is concerned, marriage in Islam is a written covenant between two individuals and as such both have to be adults to understand the responsibilities and intricacies of such an agreement. This prescript, that strikes at the root of the concept of child marriage, is supported by verse 4:6 of the Quran which equates the age of marriage (balaghun nikah) with the age of intellectual maturity (rushd), a stage that comes after the age of puberty. Yet traditions are cited by the jurists to justify child marriage as if to suggest the Prophet allowed what the Koran clearly did not encourage. For instance, Sunni law, without any Koranic or Prophetic basis, empowers the father, granting him the status of wali (guardian), to impose marriage on his minor children in their “best interests.”

In fact, Sec. 2(vii) of the DMMA itself appears to be based on an archaic, sectarian law which states that the marriage contracted on behalf of a minor by any guardian other than the father and paternal grandfather can be revoked by the minor on attaining the age of puberty. This doctrine, which also finds a mention in the Delhi HC ruling, is known as khiyar al-buloogh or, option of puberty. It is based on a report in Abu Dawood's hadess collection, wherein the Prophet is supposed to have given a minor girl the option to repudiate her marriage when she informed him that her father had married her off against her will. But a reading of this hadees shows that the girl in question was not a minor because the word used to describe her is bikran which means a grown-up, virgin. Also, there is no mention of puberty in the report and hence, the Prophet could not have advised her to wait until puberty to exercise her right to divorce.

Even if it is hypothetically assumed that bikran refers to a minor, the wordings of the Abu Dawood hadees clearly indicate that the Prophet had the marriage annulled immediately on knowing from the girl that her consent was not obtained. In a similar narrative mentioned in Sahih Bukhari, the Prophet annulled the marriage of Khansa'a bint-e-Khizaam when she complained to him that her father had forced her into a marriage which was not to her liking. The only inference that could be drawn from these reports is that child or forced marriage has no legal validity in Islam. This conclusion is supported by another hadees, found in both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, in which the Prophet is quoted as saying, “An ayyim (a widow or divorcee) shall not be married till she gives her consent, and nor a bikr (a virgin) be married till her consent is sought.” Therefore, the concept of khiyar-al buloogh is bad in law as it is based on an erroneous premise.

Not according to the Muslim clerics and those legislating Shariah and Islamic laws in many Muslim countries.

 

[Roudy]

Are you concerned about child abuse and child marriages? Or does it only concern you when it's Muslims?

The countries where the highest number of child marriages occur span religions. Hindu's even have a festival celebrating child brides as business transactions. Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews in western countries and educated affluent regions seldom approve of child marriages.

There was considerable public outrage in other Muslim countries over the situation in the OP forcing the Yemeni government to make a change in it's laws. This seems indicative of change at the public level regarding child marriage in Muslim countries. I'm not sure how much effect it will have - Yemen is desperately poor and that is a major driver in child marriages around the world. They are rare in affluent well educated countries and communities regardless of religion. It's a shame people can't notice things like that and instead focus on demonizing Islam as a whole.

The OP here is promoting an excellent discussion - a much needed discussion. it's also seperating out those who simply want to demonize Islam and those are concerned with child abuse and child marriages.

Interestingly, few seem to want to remark on child abuse or the abuse of women outside of Muslim countries or explore reasons beyond religion. No one is saying religion is not a factor at all (I predict someone is going to claim that is what is being said) - but it is not the primary factor.

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

You keep SAYING that religion isn't, and we keep pointing that it is, with evidence The fact that you wish to remain stubbornly in denial, doesn't change anything.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

You keep SAYING that religion isn't, and we keep pointing that it is, with evidence The fact that you wish to remain stubbornly in denial, doesn't change anything.

You have not provided evidence for relgion being the PRIMARY factor for child marriage in Muslim dominant countries. All the Muslim countries with high rates are very poor and/or the highest rates occur in the rural and poor sections.

 

[Jos]

I'm not concerned only because it involves Muslims. What concerns me is the fact that Islam incorporates paedophilia into it's religion and the other major religions don't. And what's odd is the impression that you seem to be defending the sickening practice.

Yeshiva University in New York City is the latest Jewish educational institution to be rocked by accusations of extensive pedophilia by rabbis and teachers. Yeshiva, including an elite high school, the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, the Benjamin N. Cardoza School of Law, and an endowment of nearly 1.3 billion dollars is the Harvard of Orthodox Judaism in America. But now 31 former high school and Yeshiva affiliate students allege sexual abuse by two highly respected Yeshiva rabbis during 1969-1989. They are suing Yeshiva U. for 380 million dollars. “Yeshiva University High School held itself out as an exemplary Jewish secondary school when in fact it was allowing known sexual predators to roam the school at will seeking other victims,” said attorney for the plaintiffs, Kevin Mulhearn. Mulhearn asserts that hundreds of boys were sexually molested or sodomized.

Typically, as with other Jewish child abuse scandals in Brooklyn, Sydney, Melbourne, Jerusalem, etc., Yeshiva's administration is evasive. As a result, AIG (American Insurance Group) may not continue insuring it.

Why do Jewish authority figures continue to be accused of pedophilia against primarily Jewish children?

The Talmud, highest authority for modern Talmudic Judaism, endorses pedophilia. It calls it "Halachah" or binding Jewish law!

The Talmudic rabbi most instrumental in persuading rabbis today to indulge in pedophilia is 2nd century A.D. Simeon ben Yohai. It's hard to imagine a rabbinic sage more esteemed than ben Yohai. He is credited by Ultra-Orthodox Jews as the author of the Zohar, or Kabbalah. Every year in Meron in Israel (where ben Yohai died), more than 10,000 Hasidic Jews gather for a week of singing, dancing, and praising ben Yohai, who may well be Kabbalist Judaism's most venerated authority.

In Orthodox Judaism, the most ancient first and second A.D. rabbis, the "Tannaim," are considered most authoritative. This is largely because they lived in Palestine closest in time to the Pharisees, who, originating in Babylon, created the Mishnah (oral law), which later became written down as the Babylonian Talmud. Some “Tanna” receive greater respect from Orthodox Jews than does Moses. Jesus accused the oral law of "making the law of God of none effect."

The Talmud is the greatest religious authority for observant Jews today. It teaches that when sages of ben Yohai’s stature pronounced new laws, they did so out of the memory of what God had taught them in heaven. The Talmud says such memory was imparted to ben Yohai's teacher, Rabbi Akiba: when Moses died he went to heaven and beheld Rabbi Akiba “expounding wondrously on the Torah.” Thus, when ben Yohai authorizes pedophilia in the Talmud, such permission becomes law for Orthodox Jews for all time.

In Yebamoth 60b the Talmud says:

It was taught: R. Simeon ben Yohai stated: ‘A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest. For it is said, But all the women children that have not known men by lying with them, keep for yourselves; and Phinehas surely was with them.’

Ben Yohai’s interpretation comes from Numbers 31:18. The Hebrews, after defeating the Midianites, were allowed to keep virginal females of all ages as wives or potential wives when they sexually matured. Ben Yohai exploited this verse to claim God gives Jews rights to sexual use of females of virtually any age, although he puts the lower bar at three years and a day. Further, he says that because the righteous Phinehas was among the Hebrew congregation who accepted the Midianite women, it means that Phinehas endorsed child sex.

Footnote 5 to this passage says ben Yohai's permission for sex with 3-year-old girls stands for all time.The footnote asks, “How could they [any other rabbi in history], contrary to the opinions of R. Simeon ben Yohai, which has scriptural support, forbid the marriage of the young proselytes?” Clearly, they can't. (The full text of this footnote and the entire passage from the Soncino edition of the Talmud are at the end of this article.)

Thus, the question posed by the Talmud footnote is extremely significant and timely. It says that just as no rabbinic authority can defy ben Yohai’s halachic permission for sex with 3-year-old girls, so no rabbinic authority in any Jewish organization, synagogue, Yeshiva high school, college, or seminary today is empowered to declare that pedophilia for the Jew is wrong!

NPN Article: Judaism's Pedophilia Begins with Rabbi ben Yohai

I'll defer to some of the Judaic Studies scholars here. Tale it away, Irosie.

They will not "tale it away" they will ignore it, as they always ignore the truth

 

[S.J.]

So let's say the muslim parent sells the child because they're poor and they need money. What about the muslim who BUYS the child? The poverty excuse doesn't cut it, it's still primarily a muslim practice that exists because of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha (if it's ok for the "prophet", it's ok for the rest of them).

 

[Coyote]

So let's say the muslim parent sells the child because they're poor and they need money. What about the muslim who BUYS the child? The poverty excuse doesn't cut it, it's still primarily a muslim practice that exists because of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha (if it's ok for the "prophet", it's ok for the rest of them).

What about the Christian that buys the child?
What about the Hindu that buys the child?

What about the man who buys the child? A pedophile.

According to the statistics by human rights organizations, the biggest offenders are distributed across the spectrum with slightly more being Christian majority countries.

 

[Coyote]

Child Marriage - Facts Causes and Consequences of Child Marriage and Sexual Abuse of Children

Causes of Child Marriage

Child marriage has many causes: cultural, social, economic and religious. In many cases, a mixture of these causes results in the imprisonment of children in marriages without their consent.

Poverty: Poor families sell their children into marriage either to settle debts or to make some money and escape the cycle of poverty. Child marriage fosters poverty, however, as it ensures that girls who marry young will not be properly educated or take part in the workforce.

"Protecting" the girl's sexuality: In certain cultures, marrying a girl young presumes that the girl's sexuality, therefore the girl's family's honor, will be "protected" but ensuring that the girl marries as a virgin. The imposition of family honor on a girl's individuality, in essence robbing the girl of her honor and dignity, undermines the credibility of family honor and instead underscores the presumed protection's actual aim: to control the girl.

Gender discrimination: Child marriage is a product of cultures that devalue women and girls and discriminate against them. "The discrimination," according to a UNICEF report on "Child Marriage and the Law," "often manifests itself in the form of domestic violence, marital rape, and deprivation of food, lack of access to information, education, healthcare, and general impediments to mobility."

Inadequate laws: Many countries such as Pakistan have laws against child marriage. The laws are not enforced. In Afghanistan, a new law was written into the country's code enabling Shiite, or Hazara, communities to impose their own form of family law--including permitting child marriage.

Trafficking: Poor families are tempted to sell their girls not just into marriage, but into prostitution, as the transaction enables large sums of money to change hands.

Child marriages in the Middle East - multiple issues including religion, but what is listed first? Poverty.

 

[Coyote]

Top Ten Facts About Child Brides

1. Worldwide, an estimated 51 million girls younger than 18 are child brides.


2. The majority of child marriages occur in West and East Africa and South Asia.

3. Over the next decade, another 100 million girls will become child brides.

4. Child marriage endangers girls. Child brides experience a higher incidence of domestic violence, marital abuse (including physical, sexual or psychological abuse) and abandonment.

5. Child marriage increases maternal mortality and infant mortality rates.

6. Many child brides are well below 15. Although the median age of marriage for child brides is 15, some as young as 7 or 8 are forced into marriage.

7. Risk factors for young teen girls who give birth are greatly increased. Girls who become pregnant under age 15 are five times more likely to die in childbirth than women who give birth in their 20s.

8. Sexual disparity in child marriages increases risk of AIDS.
Because many often marry older men with more sexual experience, child brides face a higher risk of contracting HIV.

 

[S.J.]

Muslims lead the world in child brides, regardless of the ethnical makeup of the countries they live in. If a country is 55% Christian and 45% muslim, and all of the child bride cases are muslims, it's still muslims who are the offenders even though technically it's a "Christian country". You are failing in your attempt to dismiss muslim pedophilia.

 

[Roudy]

No. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that religion isn't the primary factor that drives child marriages in those countries and it's by far not universally accepted amongst Muslims. I've linked to sources like UNICEF that support that and I've linked to sources that show it's also intertwined with religion in Hindu dominant countries.

I have NEVER defended the practice and if you are going to say that then please show me where I defended it even by implication!

You keep SAYING that religion isn't, and we keep pointing that it is, with evidence The fact that you wish to remain stubbornly in denial, doesn't change anything.

You have not provided evidence for relgion being the PRIMARY factor for child marriage in Muslim dominant countries. All the Muslim countries with high rates are very poor and/or the highest rates occur in the rural and poor sections.

Sure I have. I have shown you Muslim states that justify child brides due to Islamic law, head Muslim clerics and imams that have sanctioned it and therefore codified into state laws at times, and Muslims disobey civil laws banning such marriages (as in 150 million Muslims in India) due to religious rights. Not my problem you refuse to accept the truth.

 

[Roudy]

Muslims lead the world in child brides, regardless of the ethnical makeup of the countries they live in. If a country is 55% Christian and 45% muslim, and all of the child bride cases are muslims, it's still muslims who are the offenders even though technically it's a "Christian country". You are failing in your attempt to dismiss muslim pedophilia.

Yet despite Muslims leading the world in child brides and etc. Our local Islam defenders sit here and repeat: "It has nothing to do with Islam, it has nothing to do with Islam, it has nothing to do with Islam..."

 

[Roudy]

Top Ten Facts About Child Brides

1. Worldwide, an estimated 51 million girls younger than 18 are child brides.


2. The majority of child marriages occur in West and East Africa and South Asia.

3. Over the next decade, another 100 million girls will become child brides.

4. Child marriage endangers girls. Child brides experience a higher incidence of domestic violence, marital abuse (including physical, sexual or psychological abuse) and abandonment.

5. Child marriage increases maternal mortality and infant mortality rates.

6. Many child brides are well below 15. Although the median age of marriage for child brides is 15, some as young as 7 or 8 are forced into marriage.

7. Risk factors for young teen girls who give birth are greatly increased. Girls who become pregnant under age 15 are five times more likely to die in childbirth than women who give birth in their 20s.

8. Sexual disparity in child marriages increases risk of AIDS.
Because many often marry older men with more sexual experience, child brides face a higher risk of contracting HIV.

Been there done that about 10 times so far. The evidence that Islam is the main cause of child brides among Muslims is overwhelming and factual. Get over it and move on.