Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[SherriMunnerlyn]

This is what I am reading UNICEF is saying about child marriages:



A complex issue with deep roots

Child marriage, which has existed for centuries, is a complex issue, routed deeply in gender inequality, tradition and poverty. The practice is most common in rural and impoverished areas, where prospects for girls can be limited. In many cases, parents arrange these marriages and young girls have no choice.Poor families marry off young daughters to reduce the number of children they need to feed, clothe and educate. In some cultures, a major incentive is the price prospective husbands will pay for young brides.Social pressures within a community can lead families to wed young children. For example, some cultures believe marrying girls before they reach puberty will bring blessings on families. Some societies believe that early marriage will protect young girls from sexual attacks and violence and see it as a way to insure that their daughter will not become pregnant out of wedlock and bring dishonour to the family.Too, many families marry their daughters simply because early marriage is the only option they know.“

Many faith leaders and their communities are already working to end child marriage and other forms of violence against children. Changing stubborn behavior is immensely challenging, so we must go further to positively influence beliefs and actions,” says Tim Costello, Chief Executive of World Vision Australia."

UNICEF - Press centre - Child Marriages: 39,000 Every Day

 

[irosie91]

Muslims lead the world in child brides, regardless of the ethnical makeup of the countries they live in. If a country is 55% Christian and 45% muslim, and all of the child bride cases are muslims, it's still muslims who are the offenders even though technically it's a "Christian country". You are failing in your attempt to dismiss muslim pedophilia.

That really is retarded.

How do you explain Nicaraqua - also in the top twenty? Not a single Muslim to blame that on. Third highest - Central African Republic - 80% Christian, Dominican Republic 95% Roman Catholic, no percentage listed for Muslim. Perhaps you have some data to show it's "all Muslims" who are the offenders but somehow I doubt it.

Your attempt to claim it's all Muslims is truly pathetic.

Your attempt to claim that anyone said "its all muslim" is infinitely pathetic----the above claim is that muslims do it "more" -----I will help you----in general the person of at least
average intelligence would interpret that statement to mean that the phenomenon exists
a bit more amongst muslims than other "groups" -----proportionately. In any case----"child marriage" is not even the topic of this thread-----the topic is a 40 year old "husband" Pounding a 8 year old to death.
Your analysis which is that if a country had a christian majority and a muslim minority------than any child marriage statistic MUST be equally shared
by the two groups proportionately is about the most absurd idea I have encountered this week------besices sherri's contention that the shiites and sunnis hate each other because
JOOOOOOS tell them to.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Muslims lead the world in child brides, regardless of the ethnical makeup of the countries they live in. If a country is 55% Christian and 45% muslim, and all of the child bride cases are muslims, it's still muslims who are the offenders even though technically it's a "Christian country". You are failing in your attempt to dismiss muslim pedophilia.

That really is retarded.

How do you explain Nicaraqua - also in the top twenty? Not a single Muslim to blame that on. Third highest - Central African Republic - 80% Christian, Dominican Republic 95% Roman Catholic, no percentage listed for Muslim. Perhaps you have some data to show it's "all Muslims" who are the offenders but somehow I doubt it.

Your attempt to claim it's all Muslims is truly pathetic.

Your attempt to claim that anyone said "its all muslim" is infinitely pathetic----the above claim is that muslims do it "more" -----I will help you----in general the person of at least
average intelligence would interpret that statement to mean that the phenomenon exists
a bit more amongst muslims than other "groups" -----proportionately. In any case----"child marriage" is not even the topic of this thread-----the topic is a 40 year old "husband" to death. Your analysis which is that if a country had a christian majority and a muslim minority------than any child marriage statistic MUST be equally shared
by the two groups proportionately is about the most absurd idea I have encountered this week------besices sherri's contention that the shiites and sunnis hate each other because
JOOOOOOS tell them to.

That is a baseless claim, Muslims do it more.

The country where the largest numbers of child marriages occur is India.

 

[Roudy]

That really is retarded.

How do you explain Nicaraqua - also in the top twenty? Not a single Muslim to blame that on. Third highest - Central African Republic - 80% Christian, Dominican Republic 95% Roman Catholic, no percentage listed for Muslim. Perhaps you have some data to show it's "all Muslims" who are the offenders but somehow I doubt it.

Your attempt to claim it's all Muslims is truly pathetic.

Your attempt to claim that anyone said "its all muslim" is infinitely pathetic----the above claim is that muslims do it "more" -----I will help you----in general the person of at least
average intelligence would interpret that statement to mean that the phenomenon exists
a bit more amongst muslims than other "groups" -----proportionately. In any case----"child marriage" is not even the topic of this thread-----the topic is a 40 year old "husband" to death. Your analysis which is that if a country had a christian majority and a muslim minority------than any child marriage statistic MUST be equally shared
by the two groups proportionately is about the most absurd idea I have encountered this week------besices sherri's contention that the shiites and sunnis hate each other because
JOOOOOOS tell them to.

That is a baseless claim, Muslims do it more.

The country where the largest numbers of child marriages occur is India.

I love it how you people just love to stick your hoofs into your own mouths!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage

The Child Marriage Restraint Act, 1929 was passed during the tenure of British rule on pre-partition India. It forbade the marriage of a male younger than 21 or a female younger than 18 for Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and most people of India. However, this law did not and currently does not apply to India's 165 million Muslim population, and only applies to India's Hindu, Christian, Jain, Sikh and other religious minorities. This link of law and religion was formalized by the British colonial rule with the Muslim personal laws codified in the Indian Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act of 1937. The age at which India's Muslim girl can legally marry, according to this Muslim Personal Law, is 9 years, and can be lower if her guardian (wali) decides she is sexually mature.[70][71] Over the last 25 years, All India Muslim Personal Law Board and other Muslim civil organizations have actively opposed India-wide laws and enforcement action against child marriages; they have argued that Indian Muslim families have a religious right to marry a girl when her age is 15 or even 12.[72] Several states of India claim specially high child marriage rates in their Muslim and tribal communities.

Checkmate.

"NO MORE QUESTIONS YOUR HONOR"

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Junior high schools in the US do not even accept Wikipedia as a source for students to use.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

And your own Jewish biased source does not even support the erroneous claim that most child marriages in India are by Muslims.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Hindu Child Marriage (scriptures)

According to the Parashar Smitri and Sheeghrabodha the marriageable girls were divided into five categories:1) Nagnika or naked. A girl seven years old or younger. This was regarded as best age for marriage.2) Gauri. A girl eight years old.3) Rohini. A girl of nine years old.4) Kanya. A ten years old girl.5) Rajaswala. A girl above ten years old.According to Vaikhnasa, a Brahmin should marry a Nagnika since that is the best match. According to Marici the best age of marriage for a girl is five years old. Brahmapurana also prescribes marriage in childhood. Failure to do this will condemn the parents or gaurdian to utmost degradation.img src="http://www.anusha.com/childmar.jpg"

Hindu Child Marriage (scriptures)

Look at that, a belief a part of Hinduism that says failure to follow rules prescribed for child marriage will result in degradation.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Can even one poster say they have no ancestors who married before the age of 18?

My own parents eloped their senior year of high school, marrying at age 17.

 

[MHunterB]

So now the l'il sherriliar has pimped the anti-Semitic canard of 'Jews control the media' in support of her efforts to delegitimate 'Wiki' as a source, citing a shameful hate video from YouTube as though THAT souce is any more objective.

And then the sherriKKKins follows up with some anecdotal nonsense apparently in support of child marriage - whereas she previously insisted she didn't approve of same....

Perhaps if the blattoid shrew didn't slither down past the 'David Duke' level of irrelevancy in her desire to 'defend Islam' (which isn't desired OR required here!) - she might have retained an iota of credibility.

As it is, she has committed herself to opposing ANY citation or information from Wikipedia on ANY topic ever......

Need I point out the obvious, that Wiki readers are constantly 'fact-checking' its articles - and that the YouTube videos like the one the sherrifilthmonger prefers as a 'source' have no such oversight?

 

[Coyote]

And your own Jewish biased source does not even support the erroneous claim that most child marriages in India are by Muslims.

Wikipedia is not a Jewish based source.

But it's true - it doesn't. And Roudy's shouting is not going to change that.

Roudy ignores the fact that India is one of the top ranking nations for child marriage and even in the states specifically listed as worst in India the demographics are still 80-99% Hindu. He also ignores the fact that the Hindu religion endorses child marriage and even has a festival to promote it. Of course, in India like in many of these countries poverty is a huge driver. Even Roudy's UNICEF sources state that while religion can be a factor - poverty is the first one listed. Address poverty, education, religion - enforce national laws - and it will go a long ways towards resolving the problem.

 

[MHunterB]

So who is the 'author' of that YouTube video, l'il sherriKKKins?
Some anonymous hater who has an avvie of US/UK/Israeli flags titled 'Axis of Evil'.

I guess that pretty well describes your own view, then? You are promoting and endorsing such hatred against the American people as a whole by pimping that hate speech here.

 

[MHunterB]

Has anyone found any information which would explain the presence of Nicaragua in the 'top 20'?

It appears to be an anomaly - geographically and culturally. I don't see in the literature any suggestion that the indigenous peoples of Nicaragua OR their European-descended OR African-descended neighbors are culturally unique in any way which would promote child marriage.....

Admittedly, as I noted before, the reporting is surely incomplete and flawed - but it's what there is available.

 

[Coyote]

Has anyone found any information which would explain the presence of Nicaragua in the 'top 20'?

It appears to be an anomaly - geographically and culturally. I don't see in the literature any suggestion that the indigenous peoples of Nicaragua OR their European-descended OR African-descended neighbors are culturally unique in any way which would promote child marriage.....

Admittedly, as I noted before, the reporting is surely incomplete and flawed - but it's what there is available.

It's not really such an anomaly - people assume it's just Africa/ME but it's not. Latin America has a good bit of it. Mexico has minimum age for marriage at 12. Dominican Republic is also high on the list.

At a guess - poverty, lack of education, traditional cultures where virginity is prized?

Edited to add: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#Latin_America
Child marriage is common in Latin America and the Caribbean island nations. About 29% of girls are married before age 18.[111] The child marriage incidence rates varies between the countries, with Dominican Republic, Honduras, Brazil, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Haiti and Ecuador reporting some of the highest rates in the Americas.[112] Bolivia and Guyana have shown the sharpest decline in child marriage rates in recent times.[113] Poverty and lack of laws mandating minimum age for marriage have been cited as reasons of child marriage in Latin America.[114][115]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Nicaragua is the second poorest country in Latin America after Haiti.*Poverty is largely a rural problem in Nicaragua, although there are pockets of poverty in the capital, Managua, and in other urban areas. Close to half (43 per cent) of the people in Nicaragua live in rural areas. Two out of three of them (68 per cent) struggle to survive on little more than US$1 per day.Households headed by women, young people under 15 years of age and indigenous people are among the poorest and most disadvantaged groups in rural Nicaragua . About 17 per cent of rural households are managed by women, but only 15 per cent of women hold title to land under their own names, and they receive only 11 per cent of loans. Most rural women cultivate land that is not theirs.*

home - Rural Poverty Portal

 

[Coyote]

I think the issue of child marriage is a complex one around the world, and I agree - religion is a factor (at least Muslim and Hindu). But in almost all of those regions you also have a great deal of poverty, traditional cultures and tribal councils or Sharia courts that work against national, secular law. You also have societies where educating girls (thus increasing their worth) is not considered worthwhile so girls are a drain on their family and their value is in their bride price. It would be nice to discuss this without generic and total bashing of an entire religion since where religion plays a role in the problem it will also need to play a role in fixing it. Marge, I appreciate your ability to do that

So what are the solutions?

Setting and enforcing minimum age laws for one. More and more countries have set a minimum age varying from 15 (with consent of family) to 18 but some still as young as 9, 12, 13 or nothing.

Educating women and increasing their value for another.

Confronting religious and cultural traditions that condone early marriage.

This is where modern religious leaders need to step up and promote religous values and interpretations that are in line with modern human rights standards. It's not necessarily contradictory in either Hindu or Muslim faiths - the material is there, it just needs to be enforced.

I think, ultimately though - you also need a heavy hand in enforcing minimum age because traditional cultures are very slow to change particularly when poverty is a huge factor. In India, the only way to stop the practice of Sati was a ban by the British, that was militarily enforced. It still occurs, but it's rare and modern Hindu doctrine now forbids it.

 

[Moonglow]

When the average life span of humans was around 32 years of age I can see why cultures adopted the policy of child brides and grooms.

 

[Hossfly]

When the average life span of humans was around 32 years of age I can see why cultures adopted the policy of child brides and grooms.

That's the most logical reason brought up so far in this thread. You win a seegar!

 

[irosie91]

Has anyone found any information which would explain the presence of Nicaragua in the 'top 20'?

It appears to be an anomaly - geographically and culturally. I don't see in the literature any suggestion that the indigenous peoples of Nicaragua OR their European-descended OR African-descended neighbors are culturally unique in any way which would promote child marriage.....

Admittedly, as I noted before, the reporting is surely incomplete and flawed - but it's what there is available.

It's not really such an anomaly - people assume it's just Africa/ME but it's not. Latin America has a good bit of it. Mexico has minimum age for marriage at 12. Dominican Republic is also high on the list.

At a guess - poverty, lack of education, traditional cultures where virginity is prized?

Edited to add: Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Child marriage is common in Latin America and the Caribbean island nations. About 29% of girls are married before age 18.[111] The child marriage incidence rates varies between the countries, with Dominican Republic, Honduras, Brazil, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Haiti and Ecuador reporting some of the highest rates in the Americas.[112] Bolivia and Guyana have shown the sharpest decline in child marriage rates in recent times.[113] Poverty and lack of laws mandating minimum age for marriage have been cited as reasons of child marriage in Latin America.[114][115]

re "poverty, lack of edcuation, traditional cultures" the first lesson in LOGICAL
ANALYSIS OF DATA is

****CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION*******

Now for that which some cynical rude people call "lies" ----I have had lots
of inteaction with lots of people from LOTS OF CULTURES -----try to focus
Coyote. The big time symbol of FEMININITY and WOMANHOOD
amongst many many south american hispanics I have known well is

HAVING A BABY (in fact----married or not----however in lands
without social welfare------a husband is a must for obvious reasons)

Even in the USA-----baby care is in the hands of the grandma------the mother is often
too young.. The good news is that both grandma's often participate---whether
the couple is married or not, WORLD HEALTH STATS are created by---collecting
counry stats-------they do not have to match actual marriage registry stats. In fact---
even in the USA they don't. If you say you are married to someone-----you show
up as "married" -----I will summarize------Having a baby among lots and lots of
south american girls -----PROVES SHE CAN DO IT (I am familiar with this social
phenomenon in the USA---it has been described to me-----by girls of south
american background----my best information came to me from a very bright
girl in her early 20s whose parents nagged her to "HAVE A BABY----DON'T
WORRY, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IT" The young lady answered my query
"do you ever consider the idea of marrying and having the standard kind
of family life of married couple with kids"?

Her answer was----"NO ONE IN MY FAMILY EVER DID IT THAT WAY-----NOT
MY MOTHER OR AUNTS OR GRANDPARENTS----WHY SHOULD I STICK MYSELF
WITH A HUSBAND"??

If a woman claims she is married on the maternity ward-----that information
shows up on the birth certificate of the baby------and the stats. at least in
the USA------and probably more likely so in south america. Did you have to
present a marriage license to your Obstetrician? You just answered on
the dotted line

Getting back to islamic societies-----girls are kept in seclusion -----they have
no opportunity to go out and PROVE THEIR WOMANHOOD by getting
pregnant------they go from the kitchen of their mother to the kitchen of their
mother-in-law. They go to the stream to get water in GROUPS and VEILED.
and to the market place ONLY IN THE COMPANY OF FATHER OR BROTHERS

btw---that "anything under 18 is child marriage" thing is screwing up
anything approaching a reasonable perspective. It is lumping lots of
consensual love marriages up with forced marriage and an eight year
old being pounded to death by a 40 year old. Anyone got stats on eight
year old girls ---handed over IN HOLY MATRIMONY----complete with
three days of community celebration -----and religious ritual?. The
answer to the cultural and ethical view in the classically shariah society of
Yemen to this event will be elucidated later. My guess is that the man
will be "forgiven" by the parents and forego the small sum which would
be the blood money. He might demand the mahr back

 

[Coyote]

Has anyone found any information which would explain the presence of Nicaragua in the 'top 20'?

It appears to be an anomaly - geographically and culturally. I don't see in the literature any suggestion that the indigenous peoples of Nicaragua OR their European-descended OR African-descended neighbors are culturally unique in any way which would promote child marriage.....

Admittedly, as I noted before, the reporting is surely incomplete and flawed - but it's what there is available.

It's not really such an anomaly - people assume it's just Africa/ME but it's not. Latin America has a good bit of it. Mexico has minimum age for marriage at 12. Dominican Republic is also high on the list.

At a guess - poverty, lack of education, traditional cultures where virginity is prized?

Edited to add: Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Child marriage is common in Latin America and the Caribbean island nations. About 29% of girls are married before age 18.[111] The child marriage incidence rates varies between the countries, with Dominican Republic, Honduras, Brazil, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Haiti and Ecuador reporting some of the highest rates in the Americas.[112] Bolivia and Guyana have shown the sharpest decline in child marriage rates in recent times.[113] Poverty and lack of laws mandating minimum age for marriage have been cited as reasons of child marriage in Latin America.[114][115]

re "poverty, lack of edcuation, traditional cultures" the first lesson in LOGICAL
ANALYSIS OF DATA is

****CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION*******

I absolutely agree - correlation is not (necessarily) causation - it can be, but you need to look at the data.

I think however a pretty good case can be made to poverty in conjunction with the relative value of girls in those societies. There is income to be had in a daughters bride price and unlike a son, who is expected to go out and work and bring money in, the daughter is a drain on family resourcese.

Now for that which some cynical rude people call "lies" ----I have had lots
of inteaction with lots of people from LOTS OF CULTURES -----try to focus
Coyote. The big time symbol of FEMININITY and WOMANHOOD
amongst many many south american hispanics I have known well is

HAVING A BABY (in fact----married or not----however in lands
without social welfare------a husband is a must for obvious reasons)

Even in the USA-----baby care is in the hands of the grandma------the mother is often
too young.. The good news is that both grandma's often participate---whether
the couple is married or not, WORLD HEALTH STATS are created by---collecting
counry stats-------they do not have to match actual marriage registry stats. In fact---
even in the USA they don't. If you say you are married to someone-----you show
up as "married" -----I will summarize------Having a baby among lots and lots of
south american girls -----PROVES SHE CAN DO IT (I am familiar with this social
phenomenon in the USA---it has been described to me-----by girls of south
american background----my best information came to me from a very bright
girl in her early 20s whose parents nagged her to "HAVE A BABY----DON'T
WORRY, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IT" The young lady answered my query
"do you ever consider the idea of marrying and having the standard kind
of family life of married couple with kids"?

Her answer was----"NO ONE IN MY FAMILY EVER DID IT THAT WAY-----NOT
MY MOTHER OR AUNTS OR GRANDPARENTS----WHY SHOULD I STICK MYSELF
WITH A HUSBAND"??

If a woman claims she is married on the maternity ward-----that information
shows up on the birth certificate of the baby------and the stats. at least in
the USA------and probably more likely so in south america. Did you have to
present a marriage license to your Obstetrician? You just answered on
the dotted line

Interesting. I do not know much about Latin American societies.

Getting back to islamic societies-----girls are kept in seclusion -----they have
no opportunity to go out and PROVE THEIR WOMANHOOD by getting
pregnant------they go from the kitchen of their mother to the kitchen of their
mother-in-law. They go to the stream to get water in GROUPS and VEILED.
and to the market place ONLY IN THE COMPANY OF FATHER OR BROTHERS

Agree - though the degree of restriction depends upon the society.

btw---that "anything under 18 is child marriage" thing is screwing up
anything approaching a reasonable perspective. It is lumping lots of
consensual love marriages up with forced marriage and an eight year
old being pounded to death by a 40 year old. Anyone got stats on eight
year old girls ---handed over IN HOLY MATRIMONY----complete with
three days of community celebration -----and religious ritual?. The
answer to the cultural and ethical view in the classically shariah society of
Yemen to this event will be elucidated later. My guess is that the man
will be "forgiven" by the parents and forego the small sum which would
be the blood money. He might demand the mahr back

I agree with that. In terms of health issues, maturity, and ability to get out of poverty - marriage below 16 is probably most critical. However, UNICEF and the other sources do make distinctions based on age.