child dies after workers refuse to fix his medicaid record

[geauxtohell]

]
I'm sorry to hear that your doctor is incompetent, but doctors are actually required by law to inform you of all the possible side effects, permutations, what-have-you of an illness and its treatment, however unlikely they are. I've had my doctor warn me about stuff, followed by the statement, "Not that there's ever been a single documented case of it happening, but it's still a theoretical possibility, so we have to tell you."

I don't think it takes a lot of brains to figure out that being unable to breathe = not good, though.

What law is that?

If that were the case, a doctors visit would take six hours. There is some common sense for certain things. I think a person should be told about angioedema before being put on an ACEI, but I would bet that most physicians don't tell them about it. I would lay odds that a significant number of people on this board are on lisinopril (or some other drug that ends in -pril) and don't know about angioedema or that a dry cough is a common side effect of these drugs but is not an "allergic reaction". There simply isn't enough time in the day to cover every single possible adverse effect with every drug. At best, they might get a handout that they most probably won't read. Hell, most of the population doesn't know the difference between a true allergy and a simple adverse effect.

Your doctor it sounds like is practicing good medicine. That doesn't mean it's a "standard of care" and in really busy clinics, you are struggling to simply get everyone seen/treated in time.

There is also a more cynical reason: reimbursement. Doctors are not reimbursed for practicing preventive medicine. And the second people bring up the notion of doing that, the right has conniption fits. The right expects a physician to give away their "product", which is their medical knowledge and expertise for free. It's bewildering. Maybe if we started reimbursing primary care physicians for their time in doing prevention, we'd have better outcomes.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Thank you, Rat in the Hat. The thread parent opened this one with this link that I gathered a certain impression from and have based my responses on:



That's how I concluded the pharmacy was in the big middle of it and refused to provide the correct medications for the victim, her son. According to what this says, it was Walgreen's who told her that her son was ineligible for Medicaid. That makes Walgreen's a spokesperson in behalf of a government that screwed up big time.

The above link continues with the following assessment:


That's why I'm on this poor woman's side. If you have ever seen a child suffering with mild wheezes and it becomes an issue of him not being able to do more than gasp for air, in spite of his young age, he can become the victim of a heart attack. My friend's son was on the verge of death, she was surprised to find out, when she took him to the hospital er with just such a complaint. Both she and her husband have above-average intelligence, and they had no idea how close to death he was, just a gut instinct.

This never should have come to an issue of why a child in America could not get care. He was eligible all along, and in spite of the mother's plea, the pharmacy told her at each time she visited he was ineligible.

That's why I think pharmacies if they are speaking in behalf of a government agency might consider going proactive in the behalf of a person could die if the government agency persisted in denying the child care.

And I think a whole lot more, but I have no proof.

People do not know what the hell they're dealing with the first time they see their child gasping for air. In actuality, a sane, highly intelligent person might think a good-natured child is pretending, but just as real, that kid is gasping for his very life.

Asthma can fool even a rocket scientist. That's what my friend's husband was.

Oh yes, the Walgreens pharmacy could have done more in this situation. But they are not the drug company who made the drug, only the middleman in selling it.

And I also wonder why mom's suit didn't include the pharmacy.

Why would they be? They didn't do anything wrong. All they can do is act on the information being conveyed to their computers. The glitch was apparently in the government's computer, not the Walgreen's computer.

What, precisely, did you expect Walgreen's to do?

How about picking up a phone and trying to call the Medicaid office to see if the child was covered? Doctors, pharmacies and hospitals probably have a different avenue they follow to find out about coverage that the average person does not.

When I got laid off, and my insurance switched to COBRA, there was a gap when we were not showing as being covered. My pharmacist called the insurance company, and didn't hang up until she was assured my wife's meds were being paid for.

 

[koshergrl]

Typically what happens is the CLIENT calls their caseworker, and the caseworker then talks to the pharmacy, then back to the client to tell them what they need to do and what resources are available.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the mother didn't do what could be reasonably expected of her.

 

[NGSamson]

Oh yes, the Walgreens pharmacy could have done more in this situation. But they are not the drug company who made the drug, only the middleman in selling it.

And I also wonder why mom's suit didn't include the pharmacy.

Why would they be? They didn't do anything wrong. All they can do is act on the information being conveyed to their computers. The glitch was apparently in the government's computer, not the Walgreen's computer.

What, precisely, did you expect Walgreen's to do?

How about picking up a phone and trying to call the Medicaid office to see if the child was covered? Doctors, pharmacies and hospitals probably have a different avenue they follow to find out about coverage that the average person does not.

When I got laid off, and my insurance switched to COBRA, there was a gap when we were not showing as being covered. My pharmacist called the insurance company, and didn't hang up until she was assured my wife's meds were being paid for.

COBRA sucks

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Why would they be? They didn't do anything wrong. All they can do is act on the information being conveyed to their computers. The glitch was apparently in the government's computer, not the Walgreen's computer.

What, precisely, did you expect Walgreen's to do?

How about picking up a phone and trying to call the Medicaid office to see if the child was covered? Doctors, pharmacies and hospitals probably have a different avenue they follow to find out about coverage that the average person does not.

When I got laid off, and my insurance switched to COBRA, there was a gap when we were not showing as being covered. My pharmacist called the insurance company, and didn't hang up until she was assured my wife's meds were being paid for.

COBRA sucks

Tell me about it. They didn't bother to send me their paperwork until 4 days before my insurance expired, so I had to overnight it back to make sure it got there on time. And there was still a one week gap in coverage.

 

[NGSamson]

How about picking up a phone and trying to call the Medicaid office to see if the child was covered? Doctors, pharmacies and hospitals probably have a different avenue they follow to find out about coverage that the average person does not.

When I got laid off, and my insurance switched to COBRA, there was a gap when we were not showing as being covered. My pharmacist called the insurance company, and didn't hang up until she was assured my wife's meds were being paid for.

COBRA sucks

Tell me about it. They didn't bother to send me their paperwork until 4 days before my insurance expired, so I had to overnight it back to make sure it got there on time. And there was still a one week gap in coverage.

And the money? ouch

 

[Xchel]

it is the thought that it isn't the responsibility of the doctor to tell you every side effect of your meds or every little thing about your illness...a person has their own responsibility. The doctor has the responsibility to diagnose and treat you period and to do so in an efficient and proper manner. You and I know doctors overbook patients on a regular basis for the simple fact some patients do not keep their appointments.

Now that said, I am surprised you didn't have one and you are right you don't learn it all in one semester but you get the semantics of what you can and cannot do in that class, especially if it is a mal prac attorney teaching you. I don't know what state you went to school in or are in school in but I went to a U in Georgia.

 

[geauxtohell]

it is the thought that it isn't the responsibility of the doctor to tell you every side effect of your meds or every little thing about your illness...a person has their own responsibility. The doctor has the responsibility to diagnose and treat you period and to do so in an efficient and proper manner. You and I know doctors overbook patients on a regular basis for the simple fact some patients do not keep their appointments.

Now that said, I am surprised you didn't have one and you are right you don't learn it all in one semester but you get the semantics of what you can and cannot do in that class, especially if it is a mal prac attorney teaching you. I don't know what state you went to school in or are in school in but I went to a U in Georgia.

Primary care providers overbook because Medicaid/Medicare reimbursements keeep going down and the demand is that high.

I don't really see the point in taking Med Mal classes before going to medical school. It's somewhat the cart before the horse.

It certainly isn't a requirement. I don't think the MSAR is free online, but the only non-science coursework that is typically required to get into med school is 1-2 semesters of English. There really isn't a "pre-med" degree or requirement. Basically you take the 8 or so classes that are generally required by most med schools, take the MCAT, major in what you want and apply.

I went to Tulane for undergrad and am at a state school in the Midwest for Medical School. Like I said, med mal isn't even required in med school.

 

[Xchel]

it is the thought that it isn't the responsibility of the doctor to tell you every side effect of your meds or every little thing about your illness...a person has their own responsibility. The doctor has the responsibility to diagnose and treat you period and to do so in an efficient and proper manner. You and I know doctors overbook patients on a regular basis for the simple fact some patients do not keep their appointments.

Now that said, I am surprised you didn't have one and you are right you don't learn it all in one semester but you get the semantics of what you can and cannot do in that class, especially if it is a mal prac attorney teaching you. I don't know what state you went to school in or are in school in but I went to a U in Georgia.

Primary care providers overbook because Medicaid/Medicare reimbursements keeep going down and the demand is that high.

I don't really see the point in taking Med Mal classes before going to medical school. It's somewhat the cart before the horse.

It certainly isn't a requirement. I don't think the MSAR is free online, but the only non-science coursework that is typically required to get into med school is 1-2 semesters of English. There really isn't a "pre-med" degree or requirement. Basically you take the 8 or so classes that are generally required by most med schools, take the MCAT, major in what you want and apply.

I went to Tulane for undergrad and am at a state school in the Midwest for Medical School. Like I said, med mal isn't even required in med school.

Depends on the state and what you are going to study. My intention was not to be a General prac or even specialized...my goal was Physician assistant, perhaps the difference as well as the state being Georgia...even their medical assistants have to take it which is pretty lame. That said, I couldn't afford med school so I had to start out with what I could afford which was the University of Georgia....I went back to school after my youngest grew some and was in school himself.

 

[Texanmike]

Seriously?
You're joking right?
So her son has asthma, they don't fill his meds because of a glitch in the government computer and the kid dies?
It gets better, she blames everyone in the situation but herself. For Christ's sake woman, you're his mom. Not only are you his mom, you're a shitty mom. Terrible mom. You win shitty mom of the year award. If your calls aren't being returned you go back to the case worker and you tell her. If that doesn't work you go to her boss. Hell you drive to the Governor's Mansion and you camp out to make a point.

Or you could wait on the government.

Holy crap, I'm actually pissed about this. First, this is a lesson of what happens to you when you depend on your neighbors to take care of you. Sometimes you fall through the cracks. When you do, you don't know how to handle the situation because you live a life that is provided for you by other people. You don't need to be able to... because everything comes from somewhere else.

I look at recipients of government assistance kind of like domesticated animals. Wait... slow down.... relax your anger... I'm not saying they are animals, this is an analogy. If you take a domesticated animal and put it in the wild it loses its ability to fend for itself. If you take a 4th or 5th generation animal they have virtually none of the instincts to survive. That is what happened here. Medicare DID kill this woman's baby. It did it because it contributed to creating a person who is now incapable of solving her own problems.

Mike

 

[Xchel]

Depending on the state you are in..some of them require that you only use one pharmacy if you get medicaid so she may have not been able to go to another pharmacy..and how is it her fault that they refused to fill her kid's meds?

 

[geauxtohell]

Depends on the state and what you are going to study. My intention was not to be a General prac or even specialized...my goal was Physician assistant, perhaps the difference as well as the state being Georgia...even their medical assistants have to take it which is pretty lame. That said, I couldn't afford med school so I had to start out with what I could afford which was the University of Georgia....I went back to school after my youngest grew some and was in school himself.

Maybe it is a state curriculum thing. It's the exception, and not the rule. And you don't get to Med School without going to undergrad first, so you would have had to have started out at UGA and done the undergrad work.

What did you intend to do as a PA? I am just curious, because by and large PAs are General Practitioners. Some NPs can specialize and focus on one area (i.e. pediatric cardiology) but for the most part PAs go to PA school to practice under the license of a physician.

 

[Xchel]

Depends on the state and what you are going to study. My intention was not to be a General prac or even specialized...my goal was Physician assistant, perhaps the difference as well as the state being Georgia...even their medical assistants have to take it which is pretty lame. That said, I couldn't afford med school so I had to start out with what I could afford which was the University of Georgia....I went back to school after my youngest grew some and was in school himself.

Maybe it is a state curriculum thing. It's the exception, and not the rule. And you don't get to Med School without going to undergrad first, so you would have had to have started out at UGA and done the undergrad work.

What did you intend to do as a PA? I am just curious, because by and large PAs are General Practitioners. Some NPs can specialize and focus on one area (i.e. pediatric cardiology) but for the most part PAs go to PA school to practice under the license of a physician.

I wanted to work in obstetrics and with Doctors without borders. I right now do not have the money to continue my education because I am going through a divorce so it is on hold for the time being.

 

[geauxtohell]

Depends on the state and what you are going to study. My intention was not to be a General prac or even specialized...my goal was Physician assistant, perhaps the difference as well as the state being Georgia...even their medical assistants have to take it which is pretty lame. That said, I couldn't afford med school so I had to start out with what I could afford which was the University of Georgia....I went back to school after my youngest grew some and was in school himself.

Maybe it is a state curriculum thing. It's the exception, and not the rule. And you don't get to Med School without going to undergrad first, so you would have had to have started out at UGA and done the undergrad work.

What did you intend to do as a PA? I am just curious, because by and large PAs are General Practitioners. Some NPs can specialize and focus on one area (i.e. pediatric cardiology) but for the most part PAs go to PA school to practice under the license of a physician.

I wanted to work in obstetrics and with Doctors without borders. I right now do not have the money to continue my education because I am going through a divorce so it is on hold for the time being.

Sorry for your troubles. When you get back on track, you might want to look at the BSN program, become a obstetrics nurse, and then a licensed NP that specializes in midwifery. I would think you'd have more practice latitude then a PA and you are employable out of college as a nurse and can work on your NP while you work. I have a couple of friends doing that.

That being said, I don't know much about the two fields, so take my advice for what it is worth.

 

[Xchel]

Maybe it is a state curriculum thing. It's the exception, and not the rule. And you don't get to Med School without going to undergrad first, so you would have had to have started out at UGA and done the undergrad work.

What did you intend to do as a PA? I am just curious, because by and large PAs are General Practitioners. Some NPs can specialize and focus on one area (i.e. pediatric cardiology) but for the most part PAs go to PA school to practice under the license of a physician.

I wanted to work in obstetrics and with Doctors without borders. I right now do not have the money to continue my education because I am going through a divorce so it is on hold for the time being.

Sorry for your troubles. When you get back on track, you might want to look at the BSN program, become a obstetrics nurse, and then a licensed NP that specializes in midwifery. I would think you'd have more practice latitude then a PA and you are employable out of college as a nurse and can work on your NP while you work. I have a couple of friends doing that.

That being said, I don't know much about the two fields, so take my advice for what it is worth.

Don't be sorry, while divorce is never fun and is always difficult it was the best decision I have ever made in my adult life leaving an abusive relationship is always positive even when financially and emotionally crushing. That said, you are right it is something to consider except I don't know how well an NP will help me when it comes to working with Doctors without Borders, but I will look into it. For the meantime I spend time with my youngest child and friends and neighbors that have truly been my strength. Leaving my dream of working in the medical field is temporary at 40 I am not getting younger, but I still am not old.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.

You're in Honduras, according to your profile. I have no idea what medical care is like there. Here, we have informed consent laws, meaning that a doctor is required to make sure a patient is fully informed about the risks and benefits of a treatment or procedure before he (the patient) can consent to it. Which would mean, of course, that if the illness that is being treated is life-threatening, the patient would need to know that.

 

[Xchel]

Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.

You're in Honduras, according to your profile. I have no idea what medical care is like there. Here, we have informed consent laws, meaning that a doctor is required to make sure a patient is fully informed about the risks and benefits of a treatment or procedure before he (the patient) can consent to it. Which would mean, of course, that if the illness that is being treated is life-threatening, the patient would need to know that.

Here we have universal health care...but I am from the USA..not Honduras, so I know what health care is like in the US and have a doctor in the US.

 

[geauxtohell]

Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.

You're in Honduras, according to your profile. I have no idea what medical care is like there. Here, we have informed consent laws, meaning that a doctor is required to make sure a patient is fully informed about the risks and benefits of a treatment or procedure before he (the patient) can consent to it. Which would mean, of course, that if the illness that is being treated is life-threatening, the patient would need to know that.

A procedure is not an illness and is not pharmacologic medical treatment. Informed concent in no way legally obligates a doctor to run down the risks and benefits of every medication they write a script for.

It also doesn't legally obligate a doctor to teach patients pathology. I am all for educating patients, but you are confusing the notion of "informed consent".

Informed consent means I can't do an invasive procedure on you without your permission. I has nothing to do with standard medical treatement.

Dear Lord, rounds would take forever if we had to obtain informed consent before we changed a patient's medication regimen.

The exception would be certain experimental drugs that are not FDA approved.

 

[Sunshine]

Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.

You're in Honduras, according to your profile. I have no idea what medical care is like there. Here, we have informed consent laws, meaning that a doctor is required to make sure a patient is fully informed about the risks and benefits of a treatment or procedure before he (the patient) can consent to it. Which would mean, of course, that if the illness that is being treated is life-threatening, the patient would need to know that.

A procedure is not an illness and is not pharmacologic medical treatment. Informed concent in no way legally obligates a doctor to run down the risks and benefits of every medication they write a script for.

It also doesn't legally obligate a doctor to teach patients pathology. I am all for educating patients, but you are confusing the notion of "informed consent".

Informed consent means I can't do an invasive procedure on you without your permission. I has nothing to do with standard medical treatement.

Dear Lord, rounds would take forever if we had to obtain informed consent before we changed a patient's medication regimen.

The exception would be certain experimental drugs that are not FDA approved.

If you believe any of that you need to Google informed consent + lawsuit. Informed consent is a BIG deal. If you work in an accredited facility your accrediting body will eat you alive for not obtaining it, yes, even for new scripts. I have been a prescriber for 16 years and you most certainly DO have to advise patients of the risks, benefits, and alternatives of every medication you prescribe. Unless, of course, your license and your livelihood mean nothing to you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.

You're in Honduras, according to your profile. I have no idea what medical care is like there. Here, we have informed consent laws, meaning that a doctor is required to make sure a patient is fully informed about the risks and benefits of a treatment or procedure before he (the patient) can consent to it. Which would mean, of course, that if the illness that is being treated is life-threatening, the patient would need to know that.

Here we have universal health care...but I am from the USA..not Honduras, so I know what health care is like in the US and have a doctor in the US.

Then you shouldn't be so bewildered about the concept of a doctor being required to tell you if your medical condition is potentially life-threatening.