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Quote- Note, this is not directed at you, but rather some of the dumbfucks on this thread who think that denying an albuterol inhaler or salumeterol or adviar or whatever to a child with severe asthma is something you can mess around with. I guess you can make the argument that this mother could have prostituted herself out to get her son's meds. QUOTE
Fron the article-
"Her son's asthma worsened after several months of being off the anti-inflammatory drug Advair, which kept the disease manageable".
No mention of the other drugs. here is a quote from another article about the same thing.
After two weeks, his benefits were reinstated.
"I did get it worked out, finally," Tafoya said. "But it's because I called every day and I know what I'm doing."
Paperwork maze endangering Colorado Medicaid patients - The Denver Post
the difference between the two is one got the meds in two weeks after the problem was solved. The reoccurring theme here is the government system failed. This is an example of how it will go under Obama care.
And more on Zumante from the article above-.
"The boy still had an inhaler and nebulizer, but being without Advair was creating a life-threatening situation that his mother didn't recognize until it was too late."
Again, it's kind of tough to compare two different patient situations. One person was more aggressive because she "Knew what she was doing". The other obviously wasn't as adept at navigating the nightmare of Medicaid.
Comparing this to Obama care is like apples and footballs. This happened under medicaid.
As for the last: Of course. The kid most likely had moderate asthma. Albuterol isn't going to cut it for that. You can look at the chart and then read the stepwise treatment plan. You can't treat moderate asthma with albuterol and a nebulizer. You need the inhaled corticosteroids and long acting B2 agonist, which are combined in advair.
Obviously this mother didn't realize her son was reaching a crisis. She could have been more proactive, but it's not reasonable to expect her to have the knowledge of a health care provider or how to work the medicaid system.
[
The child isn't dead because of a clerical error. The child is dead because the mother didn't have the sense to pursue treatment if it wasn't handed to her with a "thank you for taking this free medicine" comment from the pharmacy.
So the child is dead because he #1, had asthma, and #2, had a stupid or lazy mother.
Really, you think that is what they put on the autopsy report?
Cause of Death: Respiratory failure due to acute asthmatic exacerbation. Mode of death: Stupid/lazy mother.
You are a real gem.
I think thees days they have more on hand. I have SVT and high blood pressure. I take this crap called nebivolol, now I have superb insurance, and my Dr. still tries to send me out with it. Maybe there are legal issues ib thr state that prevents it, I dont know, Im just a bindelstiff on a message board with an opinion, and you know what they sat about those ! Regardless, it is sad.
Are you able to vagal yourself down or have you ever gotten the adenosine bolus?
That looks particularly miserable.
Dont know what any of that is, the drugs keep it under control pretty good. When it happens my Dr told me to bear down as if taking a dump, try drinking a very cold glass of water, or massaging the artery in the neck. If all of that fails, then I get a shot. If the meds dont, or stop helping then they will burn the nerve that controls the electrical impulse that tells my heart to beat, as the nerve in my heart is deformed. After that, at some point it means a pace maker will be needed.
You think? Last time I was at my doctor's office they had a sign hanging on the wall, "We are no longer calling prescriptions in to Walgreens. If they're your pharmacy we will write out a prescription for you to carry."Thanks, Geaux, for cutting to the chase and delivering an accurate diagnosis of where the fault lies. It's so important that people who do clerical work in human clinical health issues have some semblance of knowledge on the seriousness of the illness represented on paper and a little pharmacology knowledge as well. Competency in the healthcare field is paramount, no matter which rung of the ladder one may find him- or herself. Private of public health care? I can't say, but if it can't deliver competence from top to bottom, it may not be the best system, and that is for another thread.Status asthmaticus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RSV =/= Asthma.
So, let's go down the basics of ACLS with the ABCDE, Airway, Breathing, Circulation, Displacement, Exposure stepwise approach.
We can stop at the first, and most important step A: Airway. Asthma causes bronchoconstriction of the airway which is why people get all wheezy. When people have to fight to breath, eventually their diaphraghms fatigue out, they go into respiratory failure and die.
If you come into the ER and are struggling for air and can't speak in full sentences, you just earned yourself an intubation and possible time on the ventaltor.
So, yes, asthma kills people. It's part of that whole breathing and airway thing.
That's why albuterol is called a "rescue inhaler" and asthma is graded from mild, to moderate, to severe (and therapy is changed) based on how many times a person has to use their inhaler.
Note, this is not directed at you, but rather some of the dumbfucks on this thread who think that denying an albuterol inhaler or salumeterol or adviar or whatever to a child with severe asthma is something you can mess around with. I guess you can make the argument that this mother could have prostituted herself out to get her son's meds.
But pragmatically, someone fucked up. Our civil litigation service exists to punish non-criminal fuck ups.
Some woman's child is dead due to a clerical error. I hope someone pays appropriately for it.
This thread is about the one boy who died, his mother's loss, and who caused the loss. I think Geaux and a couple of others came to the correct conclusion.
The entire situation is sad. I can't see how pharmaceutical companies are responsible, but I think the paper pushers are. I am sure the mother could have been more proactive but I don't think she is 100% at fault. Her son was on advair which is a inhaled steroid and salmeterol so he most likely had moderate persistent asthma.
With asthma patients, a crucial question to ask is always "Have you ever been intubated? How many times?" as this is an indication of prognosis and acuity. However, this kid might have never had respiratory failure. It just takes once. Perhaps the mother didn't realize that with something like asthma an exacerbation could come at any time and she needed to beg, borrow, or steal to get the meds. It's not reasonable to expect her to possess the fund of knowledge of a medical professional.
Considering some of the dumb-fuck statements on this thread, it's obvious she's on par with several posters who have commented on it.
The situation is sad. The kid should have gotten his advair, he didn't due to pure clerical error.
Someone is legally negligent (not criminally negligent). It doesn't sound like the Dr. and it's probably not the pharmacy, though you'd think the assholes at the pharmacy would have done more to get to the bottom of a situation like this. I watch my mentors pull all sorts of wazoo schemes to get people the meds they need.
Are you able to vagal yourself down or have you ever gotten the adenosine bolus?
That looks particularly miserable.
Dont know what any of that is, the drugs keep it under control pretty good. When it happens my Dr told me to bear down as if taking a dump, try drinking a very cold glass of water, or massaging the artery in the neck. If all of that fails, then I get a shot. If the meds dont, or stop helping then they will burn the nerve that controls the electrical impulse that tells my heart to beat, as the nerve in my heart is deformed. After that, at some point it means a pace maker will be needed.
Yeah, those are vagal manuevers. SVT is one of the few arrhythmia that you can convert without medications or electric cardioversion. If that fails, you have to get to a hospital and get an adenosine bolus, which basically stops your heart for a split second and apparently feels like shit.
Glad to hear the meds work. I would have guessed you had Wolff-Parkison-White Syndrome, but it sounds like you have some sort of vagal nerve pathology.
You think? Last time I was at my doctor's office they had a sign hanging on the wall, "We are no longer calling prescriptions in to Walgreens. If they're your pharmacy we will write out a prescription for you to carry."Thanks, Geaux, for cutting to the chase and delivering an accurate diagnosis of where the fault lies. It's so important that people who do clerical work in human clinical health issues have some semblance of knowledge on the seriousness of the illness represented on paper and a little pharmacology knowledge as well. Competency in the healthcare field is paramount, no matter which rung of the ladder one may find him- or herself. Private of public health care? I can't say, but if it can't deliver competence from top to bottom, it may not be the best system, and that is for another thread.
This thread is about the one boy who died, his mother's loss, and who caused the loss. I think Geaux and a couple of others came to the correct conclusion.
The entire situation is sad. I can't see how pharmaceutical companies are responsible, but I think the paper pushers are. I am sure the mother could have been more proactive but I don't think she is 100% at fault. Her son was on advair which is a inhaled steroid and salmeterol so he most likely had moderate persistent asthma.
With asthma patients, a crucial question to ask is always "Have you ever been intubated? How many times?" as this is an indication of prognosis and acuity. However, this kid might have never had respiratory failure. It just takes once. Perhaps the mother didn't realize that with something like asthma an exacerbation could come at any time and she needed to beg, borrow, or steal to get the meds. It's not reasonable to expect her to possess the fund of knowledge of a medical professional.
Considering some of the dumb-fuck statements on this thread, it's obvious she's on par with several posters who have commented on it.
The situation is sad. The kid should have gotten his advair, he didn't due to pure clerical error.
Someone is legally negligent (not criminally negligent). It doesn't sound like the Dr. and it's probably not the pharmacy, though you'd think the assholes at the pharmacy would have done more to get to the bottom of a situation like this. I watch my mentors pull all sorts of wazoo schemes to get people the meds they need.
So apparently this case is not the first in which a patient encountered a non-professional person at the pharmaceutical counter. Even the lawyer isn't touching the pharmacy, but imho, they need a reminder from someone someday who does have written proof they better either get in the public health service business or get out of it, one or the other.
Dont know what any of that is, the drugs keep it under control pretty good. When it happens my Dr told me to bear down as if taking a dump, try drinking a very cold glass of water, or massaging the artery in the neck. If all of that fails, then I get a shot. If the meds dont, or stop helping then they will burn the nerve that controls the electrical impulse that tells my heart to beat, as the nerve in my heart is deformed. After that, at some point it means a pace maker will be needed.
Yeah, those are vagal manuevers. SVT is one of the few arrhythmia that you can convert without medications or electric cardioversion. If that fails, you have to get to a hospital and get an adenosine bolus, which basically stops your heart for a split second and apparently feels like shit.
Glad to hear the meds work. I would have guessed you had Wolff-Parkison-White Syndrome, but it sounds like you have some sort of vagal nerve pathology.
Now you see, I was hoping to remain in ignorant bliss about all that.
And she absolutely knew an asthma attack could KILL HIM -because every doctor ALWAYS makes sure parents know that asthma can kill their child if not treated or if the child is without an emergency inhaler!
Are you positive about that? My son had RSV and I have asthma..my doctor never once told me asthma could kill me...in fact, he told me it very rarely does cause life threatening illness. So they don't always do what you say and asthma medicine is EXPENSIVE extremely so, it is also an approved medication through medicaid. If she was denied her medication because of an error at the medicaid office that is why they were named and not the pharmacy. If the pharmacy was too lazy to pick up the phone and find out then they are also neglectful and I am not their attorney so I don't know the details of why they are not being sued, perhaps they are witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff? Also, why should a woman be charged with neglect when she went to the pharmacy and she was denied that medication? She had the insurance..and while it was medicaid.being poor is not a crime and it is covered under medcaid so yeah I would say they were neglectful moreso than she was.
Status asthmaticus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RSV =/= Asthma.
So, let's go down the basics of ACLS with the ABCDE, Airway, Breathing, Circulation, Displacement, Exposure stepwise approach.
We can stop at the first, and most important step A: Airway. Asthma causes bronchoconstriction of the airway which is why people get all wheezy. When people have to fight to breath, eventually their diaphraghms fatigue out, they go into respiratory failure and die.
If you come into the ER and are struggling for air and can't speak in full sentences, you just earned yourself an intubation and possible time on the ventaltor.
So, yes, asthma kills people. It's part of that whole breathing and airway thing.
That's why albuterol is called a "rescue inhaler" and asthma is graded from mild, to moderate, to severe (and therapy is changed) based on how many times a person has to use their inhaler.
Note, this is not directed at you, but rather some of the dumbfucks on this thread who think that denying an albuterol inhaler or salumeterol or adviar or whatever to a child with severe asthma is something you can mess around with. I guess you can make the argument that this mother could have prostituted herself out to get her son's meds.
But pragmatically, someone fucked up. Our civil litigation service exists to punish non-criminal fuck ups.
Some woman's child is dead due to a clerical error. I hope someone pays appropriately for it.
Xchel, we have a thread on a new antiviral drug I remember that was around here a week or so ago. Here is the link. You may want your son on the list or not, except it may still be in the testing stage. It sounds promising. Oh, wouldn't it be good if there were a cure for your dear son?And she absolutely knew an asthma attack could KILL HIM -because every doctor ALWAYS makes sure parents know that asthma can kill their child if not treated or if the child is without an emergency inhaler!
Are you positive about that? My son had RSV and I have asthma..my doctor never once told me asthma could kill me...in fact, he told me it very rarely does cause life threatening illness. So they don't always do what you say and asthma medicine is EXPENSIVE extremely so, it is also an approved medication through medicaid. If she was denied her medication because of an error at the medicaid office that is why they were named and not the pharmacy. If the pharmacy was too lazy to pick up the phone and find out then they are also neglectful and I am not their attorney so I don't know the details of why they are not being sued, perhaps they are witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff? Also, why should a woman be charged with neglect when she went to the pharmacy and she was denied that medication? She had the insurance..and while it was medicaid.being poor is not a crime and it is covered under medcaid so yeah I would say they were neglectful moreso than she was.
Status asthmaticus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RSV =/= Asthma.
So, let's go down the basics of ACLS with the ABCDE, Airway, Breathing, Circulation, Displacement, Exposure stepwise approach.
We can stop at the first, and most important step A: Airway. Asthma causes bronchoconstriction of the airway which is why people get all wheezy. When people have to fight to breath, eventually their diaphraghms fatigue out, they go into respiratory failure and die.
If you come into the ER and are struggling for air and can't speak in full sentences, you just earned yourself an intubation and possible time on the ventaltor.
So, yes, asthma kills people. It's part of that whole breathing and airway thing.
That's why albuterol is called a "rescue inhaler" and asthma is graded from mild, to moderate, to severe (and therapy is changed) based on how many times a person has to use their inhaler.
Note, this is not directed at you, but rather some of the dumbfucks on this thread who think that denying an albuterol inhaler or salumeterol or adviar or whatever to a child with severe asthma is something you can mess around with. I guess you can make the argument that this mother could have prostituted herself out to get her son's meds.
But pragmatically, someone fucked up. Our civil litigation service exists to punish non-criminal fuck ups.
Some woman's child is dead due to a clerical error. I hope someone pays appropriately for it.
RSV does not equal asthma...RSV is a virus that attacks young children's lungs. It is called Respiratory Syncytial Virus. THERE IS NO CURE for RSV. 60% of children in the US become infected with RSV so clearly we know that RSV does not equal asthma. However, sometimes in rare instances where it progresses to bronchiolitis like my son's did and then pneumonia*his did not continue to pneumonia* it can lead to death but not often....
I take Advair, you know what Advair costs? Mine costs about $250 for one disc. Advair is a maintenence med not a prevention med..it won't stop an asthma attack. Albuteral or Salbutemol or Combivent are what you use for that. Costs for that run between $30 and $60 or more. So we are talking in excess of $300 for 2 medications for this child PER MONTH.
My prayers for your safety and health. There's some plant out there in the jungle that may be a cure. We just don't have enough scientists on it. I do know there are a number of new innovations on the front lines in bio cures for truly bad things.freedom, thanks but it wouldn't matter about that since we aren't in the US. I am an ex pat living in Honduras right now..our goal is returning to the US before the drug war gets anymore hot here, but that may not work out in the very near future..
What doesn't jive is some did not go to the link and read what actually little boy.
What happened to him was death by computer glitch at Walgreen's.
My heart goes out to that mother who, from all appearances, followed up over and over with the same result from Walgreen's each and every time--computer sez this and computer sez that.
She lost her beautiful young son, and there was no excuse for a pharmacy treating her so arrogantly as to not care about her and her little boy's life-threatening asthma.
Which you should be grateful forThe mother should have been indicted for child abuse since stupidity isn't a crime.
I guess you missed the part where she was calling human services several times a week. What was she supposed to do, hold them at gun point? Yes I would have gotten much more in people's face about this too, but hindsight is 20/20 and many people are very intimidated by authority/authority figures and feel powerless. She also may not have realized that his life was in danger. Again I agree she should have known, and could have done more, but it's easy to get self-righteous about this and rubbing salt in her wound is asinine in a wide variety of ways.
That aside, I hope with great passion that the SPECIFIC PEOPLE who blew her off end up in jail, and that point should be emphasized. But it won't. Incompetent employees hide behind their company and get off scott free while the best one can usually hope for is the company or state or whatever just throws some money at this and goes "oops our bad." That itself should be a crime. PEOPLE should be held accountable for shit like this.
She could have called her Dr.'s office and said " Hey, my stuff is all messed up.I cant get my kids meds". The receptionist would have passed the message on to the Dr. and the Dr. would have given the woman samples to hold the kid over until the issue was settled.
Thank you, Rat in the Hat. The thread parent opened this one with this link that I gathered a certain impression from and have based my responses on:How was the drug company in the middle of it? Nothing in the story said they were ever contacted. They probably didn't know anything about it until the story hit the media.
That's how I concluded the pharmacy was in the big middle of it and refused to provide the correct medications for the victim, her son. According to what this says, it was Walgreen's who told her that her son was ineligible for Medicaid. That makes Walgreen's a spokesperson in behalf of a government that screwed up big time.
The above link continues with the following assessment:
Her son's asthma worsened after several months of being off the anti-inflammatory drug Advair, which kept the disease manageable.
The boy died in July 2009. He fainted at his home after telling his mother he couldn't breathe and then died a few days later at Children's Hospital when he was taken off a ventilator.
State investigators later found the boy died of complications from his condition, which was covered by a state health plan that should have paid for the prescription medication he needed.
"I want this not to be the story of anyone else's family," Lucero-Mills said. "Something has to change."
That's why I'm on this poor woman's side. If you have ever seen a child suffering with mild wheezes and it becomes an issue of him not being able to do more than gasp for air, in spite of his young age, he can become the victim of a heart attack. My friend's son was on the verge of death, she was surprised to find out, when she took him to the hospital er with just such a complaint. Both she and her husband have above-average intelligence, and they had no idea how close to death he was, just a gut instinct.
This never should have come to an issue of why a child in America could not get care. He was eligible all along, and in spite of the mother's plea, the pharmacy told her at each time she visited he was ineligible.
That's why I think pharmacies if they are speaking in behalf of a government agency might consider going proactive in the behalf of a person could die if the government agency persisted in denying the child care.
And I think a whole lot more, but I have no proof.
People do not know what the hell they're dealing with the first time they see their child gasping for air. In actuality, a sane, highly intelligent person might think a good-natured child is pretending, but just as real, that kid is gasping for his very life.
Asthma can fool even a rocket scientist. That's what my friend's husband was.
Oh yes, the Walgreens pharmacy could have done more in this situation. But they are not the drug company who made the drug, only the middleman in selling it.
And I also wonder why mom's suit didn't include the pharmacy.
And she absolutely knew an asthma attack could KILL HIM -because every doctor ALWAYS makes sure parents know that asthma can kill their child if not treated or if the child is without an emergency inhaler!
Are you positive about that? My son had RSV and I have asthma..my doctor never once told me asthma could kill me...in fact, he told me it very rarely does cause life threatening illness. So they don't always do what you say and asthma medicine is EXPENSIVE extremely so, it is also an approved medication through medicaid. If she was denied her medication because of an error at the medicaid office that is why they were named and not the pharmacy. If the pharmacy was too lazy to pick up the phone and find out then they are also neglectful and I am not their attorney so I don't know the details of why they are not being sued, perhaps they are witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff? Also, why should a woman be charged with neglect when she went to the pharmacy and she was denied that medication? She had the insurance..and while it was medicaid.being poor is not a crime and it is covered under medcaid so yeah I would say they were neglectful moreso than she was.
And she absolutely knew an asthma attack could KILL HIM -because every doctor ALWAYS makes sure parents know that asthma can kill their child if not treated or if the child is without an emergency inhaler!
Are you positive about that? My son had RSV and I have asthma..my doctor never once told me asthma could kill me...in fact, he told me it very rarely does cause life threatening illness. So they don't always do what you say and asthma medicine is EXPENSIVE extremely so, it is also an approved medication through medicaid. If she was denied her medication because of an error at the medicaid office that is why they were named and not the pharmacy. If the pharmacy was too lazy to pick up the phone and find out then they are also neglectful and I am not their attorney so I don't know the details of why they are not being sued, perhaps they are witnesses on behalf of the plaintiff? Also, why should a woman be charged with neglect when she went to the pharmacy and she was denied that medication? She had the insurance..and while it was medicaid.being poor is not a crime and it is covered under medcaid so yeah I would say they were neglectful moreso than she was.
There are the "several months" in between. The pharmacy had to have been on the phone to make the determination that her meds weren't covered. The pharmacy would only have trouble if human services told them she was approved for the meds and they did not give them to her. And the law sute is a civel right case, not a wrongful death law suet.
civil rightsplural of civ·il rights
Noun: The rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality. More »
Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary
How were they violated ? we dont know. The article leaves allot out.
RSV does not equal asthma...RSV is a virus that attacks young children's lungs. It is called Respiratory Syncytial Virus. THERE IS NO CURE for RSV. 60% of children in the US become infected with RSV so clearly we know that RSV does not equal asthma. However, sometimes in rare instances where it progresses to bronchiolitis like my son's did and then pneumonia*his did not continue to pneumonia* it can lead to death but not often....
I take Advair, you know what Advair costs? Mine costs about $250 for one disc. Advair is a maintenence med not a prevention med..it won't stop an asthma attack. Albuteral or Salbutemol or Combivent are what you use for that. Costs for that run between $30 and $60 or more. So we are talking in excess of $300 for 2 medications for this child PER MONTH.
Doctors do not have any obligation to inform you of all of the symptoms of your illness..that is your job..their job is to dx you with your illness and treat you..not tell you what might happen to you. It does not make a dr incompetent to say oh asthma is going to kill you...especially if it isn't going to...as another poster pointed out...not all asthma is created equal...and btw, I spent 4 years pre med so I know what I am talking about. One of your first classes that you are given is MALPRACTICE LAW.
