China drops 'peaceful reunification' reference to Taiwan

[JoeB131]

Also Joe

You miss my point. (Also kind of weird you are archiving my past statements)

Gaza isn't part of Israel and has no desire to be.

Ukraine is not part of Russia and has no desire to be. Incidentally, I have no problem with the Donbas and Crimea becoming part of Russia if that is the wish of the majority, but what Putin did was unacceptable. I also blame Zelensky for not holding to the Minsk Accords to resolve the Donbas issue.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is part of China and is recognized by the international community as such. 97% of the population is Han Chinese; they speak Mandarin and write Hanzi. Oh, yeah, and here's the big one: It calls itself "The Republic of China" and held China's vote in the UN from 1949 to 1971.

So, ultimately, the conflict between Taipei and Beijing is an internal conflict within China.

We shouldn't be involved.

Sure, it's easy to cheer for Taiwan in that it converted from Chiang's fascist dictatorship to a functioning democracy.

But we need to appreciate that from China's perspective, Taiwan is another example of outside powers interfering in their internal affairs, going all the way back to the Opium wars.

Now, yes, I have a bit of a pro-Chinese bias. My wife is a Chinese national and I get a very different perspective on this issue.

But is Taiwan worth WWIII? Absolutely not.

 

[shockedcanadian]

You miss my point. (Also kind of weird you are archiving my past statements)

Gaza isn't part of Israel and has no desire to be.

Ukraine is not part of Russia and has no desire to be. Incidentally, I have no problem with the Donbas and Crimea becoming part of Russia if that is the wish of the majority, but what Putin did was unacceptable. I also blame Zelensky for not holding to the Minsk Accords to resolve the Donbas issue.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is part of China and is recognized by the international community as such. 97% of the population is Han Chinese; they speak Mandarin and write Hanzi. Oh, yeah, and here's the big one: It calls itself "The Republic of China" and held China's vote in the UN from 1949 to 1971.

So, ultimately, the conflict between Taipei and Beijing is an internal conflict within China.

We shouldn't be involved.

Sure, it's easy to cheer for Taiwan in that it converted from Chiang's fascist dictatorship to a functioning democracy.

But we need to appreciate that from China's perspective, Taiwan is another example of outside powers interfering in their internal affairs, going all the way back to the Opium wars.

Now, yes, I have a bit of a pro-Chinese bias. My wife is a Chinese national and I get a very different perspective on this issue.

But is Taiwan worth WWIII? Absolutely not.

Then why not just have a referendum of the Taiwanese people and let them decide?

China wouldn't allow that because they intend to absorb Taiwan whether they want to or not.

The Taiwanese people should decide their fate, they are the true Chinese NOT the Communists who were supported by the Russians when they won the war.

 

[dblack]

China needs to come up with an economic/political agreement with Taiwan.

If they attempt a military invasion, Taiwan will kick their ass

China could wipe out Taiwan if they wanted to. But they want Taiwan for it's economic engine. Even as an independent nation, Taiwan is incredibly important to China's economy. Destroying it would be cutting off a foot to settle a grudge.

 

[shockedcanadian]

China could wipe out Taiwan if they wanted to. But they want Taiwan for it's economic engine. Even as an independent nation, Taiwan is incredibly important to China's economy. Destroying it would be cutting off a foot to settle a grudge.

He who controls TMSC controls the world.

 

[JoeB131]

Who are "you guys"?

You truly are naive, by design or circumstance.

Did you know that China shipped over some nice windmills to help with Americas wind energy "climate change" goals? The hardware was nice and clean, but the software installed was used to access U.S systems. America had to outsource their own domestic company to replace the software that their good friends from China shipped over.

Can anyone imagine buying "Made in Russia" computers or cars during the 1970s?

Wake up, MSS has hoodwinked the world and it is only now, decades later after China has built a formidable military that the world seems to notice. Even slow, foolish Europe seems to now care, only AFTER their own political careers are in peril as the continent in moving far right, and fast. Convenient timing.

How many foreign spies from China are in the U.S today thanks to your border? How many accessing sensitive U.S mainframe government computers? How many sleeper cells?

As I feared the move of influence East after 2020 I suspect WWIII is far closer than most believe. All of the signs are there. Once again, we choose to repeat history all because many elites believe they will be safe and secure, similar to the Crown in England wanting to agree to surrender terms with Germany as long as they remained the monarchy.

The joke will be on them, not long after all of us. Everyone appeasing the crocodile hoping they are eaten last.

The need to shift gears dramatically is now, there is no tomorrow. I give Americas enemies credit, they not only gained immense ground but also convinced many of their allies to not trust the U.S.

Wake up...please....

Again, please point out to me where China sent a military force halfway around the world to invade a foreign country over what turned out to be a lie?

When did China spend 20 years occupying countries they knew would vote out our puppet government in a heartbeat given a chance (Vietnam, Afghanistan)

Comparing China to WWII Germany is silly.

Now, at the end of the day, I doubt China will invade Taiwan because it would disrupt it's economy.

 

[JoeB131]

Then why not just have a referendum of the Taiwanese people and let them decide?

China wouldn't allow that because they intend to absorb Taiwan whether they want to or not.

The Taiwanese people should decide their fate, they are the true Chinese NOT the Communists who were supported by the Russians when they won the war.

Taiwan has consistently voted for the fantasy that they are the Republic of China.

I don't think the rest of Canada would take it that well if Quebec became its own country.

The US has fought a civil war to keep states in that no longer were that into it.

But China is supposed to bend over and take it when a province declares independence?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Again, please point out to me where China sent a military force halfway around the world to invade a foreign country over what turned out to be a lie?

When did China spend 20 years occupying countries they knew would vote out our puppet government in a heartbeat given a chance (Vietnam, Afghanistan)

Comparing China to WWII Germany is silly.

Now, at the end of the day, I doubt China will invade Taiwan because it would disrupt it's economy.

Answer my question please,

If China is so convinced that Taiwan is a part of China, first, they should be able to land their fighter jets in Taiwan since, after all, it is "their country".

Second, why not ask the Taiwanese people themselves via a referendum?

Otherwise, America never colonized any nation they went to war with.

 

[rightwinger]

Taiwan has consistently voted for the fantasy that they are the Republic of China.

I don't think the rest of Canada would take it that well if Quebec became its own country.

The US has fought a civil war to keep states in that no longer were that into it.

But China is supposed to bend over and take it when a province declares independence?

They declared independence almost 80 years ago

 

[JoeB131]

Answer my question please,

If China is so convinced that Taiwan is a part of China, first, they should be able to land their fighter jets in Taiwan since, after all, it is "their country".

I am sure they'll be able to do that right after they secure it from renegade factions.

Second, why not ask the Taiwanese people themselves via a referendum?

They do. they keep voting for the Republic of China fantasy.

Otherwise, America never colonized any nation they went to war with.

Um, except for Puerto Rico, the Panama Canal Zone, the Philippines, the islands in the pacific we took from Japan, We could also throw Hawaii in there, as a sovereign nation we annexed.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I am sure they'll be able to do that right after they secure it from renegade factions.




They do. they keep voting for the Republic of China fantasy.




Um, except for Puerto Rico, the Panama Canal Zone, the Philippines, the islands in the pacific we took from Japan, We could also throw Hawaii in there, as a sovereign nation we annexed.

Oh, we are going to skew history. Go WAY back then, long before America was founded. China was born on war, Qin Shi Huang the original conquering emperor who annexed multiple territories to create the modern day China.

Should we roll back history to hundreds of years before Christ was even born and break China back up into its independent territories? This is what they are stating about Taiwan today.

Like a scorned lover "you can't leave me! I won't allow it!"

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, we are going to skew history. Go WAY back then, long before America was founded. China was born on war, Qin Shi Huang the original conquering emperor who annexed multiple territories to create the modern day China.

Should we roll back history to hundreds of years before Christ was even born and break China back up into its independent territories? This is what they are stating about Taiwan today.

Like a scorned lover "you can't leave me! I won't allow it!"

I don't think you need to go back that far. All Qin Shi Huang did was unify the kingdoms that were previously under the Zhou dynasty.

(I just spent months watching a Chinese mini-series about the Warring States period with my wife.)

China has fragmented and reunified many times in her history. She has also been subject to invasions by foreigners - The Jurgens, the Mongols, the Manchu, the European Powers and finally, Japan.

So while we see a scrappy bunch of kindred spirits on Taiwan, the Chinese see a territory the Japanese stole from them and the Nationalists took over.

Because I don't really want to see World War III happen, we should at least TRY to understand the Chinese point of view on this.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I don't think you need to go back that far. All Qin Shi Huang did was unify the kingdoms that were previously under the Zhou dynasty.

(I just spent months watching a Chinese mini-series about the Warring States period with my wife.)

China has fragmented and reunified many times in her history. She has also been subject to invasions by foreigners - The Jurgens, the Mongols, the Manchu, the European Powers and finally, Japan.

So while we see a scrappy bunch of kindred spirits on Taiwan, the Chinese see a territory the Japanese stole from them and the Nationalists took over.

Because I don't really want to see World War III happen, we should at least TRY to understand the Chinese point of view on this.

Right, I understand their real reasons for wanting Taiwan, you see the nostalgic, emotional reasons which are very low on the list.

They want Taiwan for the capitalism economic engine that made them invaluable on the global stage due to their specialization on microchips.

They also want Taiwan for their geographical strategical location on top of them not liking a U.S ally so close to their land mass.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

You miss my point.

You clearly missed mine.

Ukraine is not part of Russia and has no desire to be.

Ah, but they were.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is part of China

I imagine the Taiwanese will tell you differently.

and is recognized by the international community as such.

Because largely they don't want to rankle Beijing and threaten trade. So, it's your opinion that that Taiwanese have no say that they are their own country, but the Ukranians did? Why? Because we acknowledged it? Because France did? Because Germany did? Another country's existence is based on what we think and not what the people who live there think?

Taiwan has been its own entity for as long as I've been alive and the threat of war with China has been the only reason why they've stopped short of openly declaring themselves so, but everyone knows they are and operates as such. We just won't say it because President Winnie the Pooh will get butthurt.

97% of the population is Han Chinese; they speak Mandarin and write Hanzi.

Everyone in North and South Korea speaks Korean. Does that make them one country? Everyone in Austria speaks German. Are they one country? Are we part of the United Kingdom because we speak English?

Oh, yeah, and here's the big one: It calls itself "The Republic of China" and held China's vote in the UN from 1949 to 1971.

North Korea calls itself The Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Are they a democratic republic?

So, ultimately, the conflict between Taipei and Beijing is an internal conflict within China.

We shouldn't be involved.

I never argued we should.

 

[JoeB131]

Ah, but they were.

They were part of the Soviet Union. In theory, at least, the Ukrainian SSR was equal to the Russian FSSR. Ukraine even had its own vote in the UN, separate from the rest of the USSR (as did Belarus).

In any event, when the USSR Split up in 1991, Russia recognized Ukrainian independence and their borders. China has never recognized Taiwan as it's own entity.

I imagine the Taiwanese will tell you differently.

One of my good friends is a lady from Taiwan, and yes, she has. It doesn't really change the legal, international standing of Taiwan as a province of China.

Because largely they don't want to rankle Beijing and threaten trade. So, it's your opinion that that Taiwanese have no say that they are their own country, but the Ukranians did? Why? Because we acknowledged it? Because France did? Because Germany did? Another country's existence is based on what we think and not what the people who live there think?

Yes, international recognition is important. There are currently 12 countries that recognize Taiwan as the legitimate government of China, and not Beijing. As such- everyone agrees that Taiwan and China are the same country.

Currently Taiwan has 12 diplomatic allies that recognise Taiwan as the ROC (and thus do not have official relations with Beijing): Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Marshall Islands, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Eswatini and Tuvalu.

Taiwan has been its own entity for as long as I've been alive and the threat of war with China has been the only reason why they've stopped short of openly declaring themselves so, but everyone knows they are and operates as such. We just won't say it because President Winnie the Pooh will get butthurt.

You are working on the assumption that this is President Xi's whim, and not the opinion of most Chinese.

Everyone in North and South Korea speaks Korean. Does that make them one country? Everyone in Austria speaks German. Are they one country? Are we part of the United Kingdom because we speak English?

North and South Korea both claim to be the legitimate government of Korea - so they are both Korea.

Austria's relationship with "Germany" is too long and complicated to go into here... but it is recognized as an independent state. In fact, the world INSISTED on it over those who would like to be part of Germany.

North Korea calls itself The Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Are they a democratic republic?

No, but they do have a legitimate claim to be the Government of at least part of Korea.

I never argued we should.

I'm not sure what you are arguing exactly. Unless you just want to contradict me, which by all means, knock yourself out.

 

[JoeB131]

Right, I understand their real reasons for wanting Taiwan, you see the nostalgic, emotional reasons which are very low on the list.

They want Taiwan for the capitalism economic engine that made them invaluable on the global stage due to their specialization on microchips.

They also want Taiwan for their geographical strategical location on top of them not liking a U.S ally so close to their land mass.

I think you are missing the importance of national sovereignty to China. China has been mostly peaceful in their attempts to express sovereignty. They didn't take Macao or Hong Kong by force, even though Portugul and the UK couldn't have done much about it if they decided to. They waited for the leases to run out and retook those territories. Yes, they absolutely invaded Tibet but still allowed it some autonomy. Tibet had very little value to Beijing, but the regime set up by the Lamas under British help was an affront to their sovereignty.

Conversely, even though they could easily sweep Outer Mongolia into their territory, they haven't even tried that. It's not like Russia would object at this point. Mongolia has a long history of its own. (even though Inner Mongolia is a province of China.)

 

[konradv]

Like clockwork, every time the world sees American weakness and division. Is the world ready for WWIII?

China can even rightfully tell the world "we told you what we were going to do".

I thought we were supposed to learn from history, not repeat it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-drops-peaceful-reunification-reference-taiwan-raises-defence-spending-by-2024-03-05/

BEIJING, March 5 (Reuters) - China will boost its defence spending by 7.2% this year, fuelling a military budget that has more than doubled under President Xi Jinping's 11 years in office as Beijing hardens its stance on Taiwan, according to official reports on Tuesday.
The increase mirrors the rate presented in last year's budget and again comes in well above the government's economic growth forecast for this year.
China also officially adopted tougher language against Taiwan as it released the budget figures, dropping the mention of "peaceful reunification" in a government report delivered by Premier Li Qiang at the opening of the National People's Congress (NPC), China's rubber-stamp parliament, on Tuesday.

Chins doesn’t have the navy to invade Taiwan. You’ve been taken in by empty bluster on Xi’s part and shameless echoes by MAGA fellow travelers.

#CCP=FASCISM=MAGA

 

[frigidweirdo]

Like clockwork, every time the world sees American weakness and division. Is the world ready for WWIII?

China can even rightfully tell the world "we told you what we were going to do".

I thought we were supposed to learn from history, not repeat it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-drops-peaceful-reunification-reference-taiwan-raises-defence-spending-by-2024-03-05/

BEIJING, March 5 (Reuters) - China will boost its defence spending by 7.2% this year, fuelling a military budget that has more than doubled under President Xi Jinping's 11 years in office as Beijing hardens its stance on Taiwan, according to official reports on Tuesday.
The increase mirrors the rate presented in last year's budget and again comes in well above the government's economic growth forecast for this year.
China also officially adopted tougher language against Taiwan as it released the budget figures, dropping the mention of "peaceful reunification" in a government report delivered by Premier Li Qiang at the opening of the National People's Congress (NPC), China's rubber-stamp parliament, on Tuesday.

What's your point? China hasn't changed anything in a long time. And suddenly you're making this about America. What does this have to do with America?

 

[Unkotare]

China could wipe out Taiwan if they wanted to. But they want Taiwan for it's economic engine. Even as an independent nation, Taiwan is incredibly important to China's economy. Destroying it would be cutting off a foot to settle a grudge.

Grudges are very important to China.

 

[Unkotare]

Taiwan has consistently voted for the fantasy that they are the Republic of China.

I don't think the rest of Canada would take it that well if Quebec became its own country.

The US has fought a civil war to keep states in that no longer were that into it.

But China is supposed to bend over and take it when a province declares independence?

You're sure bending over and begging. You could not be more transparent, bigot.

 

[shockedcanadian]

What's your point? China hasn't changed anything in a long time. And suddenly you're making this about America. What does this have to do with America?

Everything.

You should educate yourself on how important microchips are to your everyday life and the economy. Not to speak of the specialized and advanced chips that China requires for their military.