Christian baker not backing down after Gov't punishes him for refusing to make gay wedding cake

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Smoking is less deadly than Faggotry...fags die 20 years earlier than non fags. Smokers live longer than fags.

 

[bodecea]

The problem with public accommodations laws is taking PRIVATE beliefs and practices
and injecting and mixing them with public laws and govt.

Since private religious and personal decisions are involved, if I were govt officials,
I would require that businesses and clients sign WAIVERS in advance to resolve
all such conflicts by consensus satisfactory to both parties and respecting their beliefs equally.
And if no such agreement can be reached, BOTH SIDES are barred from doing business together.

That way the govt isn't blaming one sides' beliefs more than the other, but the fact
they can't resolve them is nobody's fault. They should just agree not to do business together,
so nobody's rights or beliefs are violated, and nobody feels compelled to change their beliefs against their will.

That's what I recommend to protect equal rights and beliefs of both sides and all parties.
Either agree how to conduct business together, or refrain and go find more compatible business partners and customers!!

But we already have religious freedom enumerated in the Constitution. Jews should not be forced to bake Muslim cakes. The problem is the government IS getting involved between two private parties. More government is not the solution.

I think few people would have a problem with PA laws protecting race and religion for food and housing. Every citizen has to eat and have a place to stay. But it's become a political bludgeon to forward an agenda.

Totally agree Iceweasel
if businesses affected by this start requiring waivers to be signed in advance,
then legally they can require that customers abide by arbitration or mediation
TO RESOLVE CONFLICTS WITHOUT LEGAL ACTION OR EXPENSE.
And if they don't meet that requirement, they don't do business together at all.
That would keep govt out of it, don't you agree?

Well arbitration with no legal clout seems meaningless to me. Someone goes away unsatisfied. I've been in businesses that didn't seem to care for my money or company. I just left and didn't go back. I never felt the need to voice a complaint or get government involved. But that's just me.

They look around and find Christian businesses to target with their fascist crap. There probably isn't even a wedding scheduled in the first place.

You obviously have not familiarized yourself with the particulars of this story.

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Homosexuality More Dangerous Than Smoking - Christian Newswire

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

'Smoking healthier than gay marriage'

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Expert Research Finds Homosexuality More Dangerous Than Smoking

 

[OffensivelyOpenMinded]

Fags are trash.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Bake the cake, but tell them to go elsewhere if they want a same gender couple hood ornament for the cake because you don't sell that kind of hood ornament for a cake.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. At the end of the day, it is just a food, and once it becomes the property of the buyer, they are then free to bring whatever meaning it is that they want the product to have. Selling someone a knife is no different. The seller doesn't know then if its going to be used to kill anyone or not.

 

[martybegan]

You can't label hate for others, that in itself is hateful. Nobody says it's hateful but leftists. Your congregation is not god, it's filled with flawed humans.

Christians, oddly enough, get the idea from the bible. It labels certain things as sinful so forcing a Christian to accommodate a sinful relationship is wrongheaded and a disgrace to our system of justice. Leftists are trying to destroy individual freedoms every where they can.

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Odd...no mention of guns in the post you are replying to. Not following the topic?

it's a comparison, and an apt one.

 

[martybegan]

What if health laws were passed that banned Kosher or halal slaughter?

Then those laws would be fought and REPEALED or else a Kosher or halal baker/restaurant would not get such a business license. See how easy that is?

You don't like a PA law, REPEAL IT....don't get a business license and think you can just ignore the laws/regs you pretend are against your "religion".

or like I have said repeatedly, apply PA laws to actual PA's, and not to every transaction where money changes hands.

If a business license is involved, follow the business laws and regulations.....or work to get them changed.

Do you ever discuss anything but "fuh fuh fuh change the law, fuh fuh fuh I have the debating skill of a dead lemming"....

Did you not know that that is how we actually solve such problems? It's way more CONSTRUCTIVE than whining on a message board only.

Who say the two are mutually exclusive?

 

[martybegan]

Yes...what would be next? Refusing to follow safety or health standards for "religious" reasons?

What if health laws were passed that banned Kosher or halal slaughter?

Then those laws would be fought and REPEALED or else a Kosher or halal baker/restaurant would not get such a business license. See how easy that is?

You don't like a PA law, REPEAL IT....don't get a business license and think you can just ignore the laws/regs you pretend are against your "religion".

The big difference between kosher and haall restaurants is the menu. Kosher and halaal dishes are served. In the bakeries, wedding cakes are on the menu.

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

 

[martybegan]

You can't label hate for others, that in itself is hateful. Nobody says it's hateful but leftists. Your congregation is not god, it's filled with flawed humans.

Christians, oddly enough, get the idea from the bible. It labels certain things as sinful so forcing a Christian to accommodate a sinful relationship is wrongheaded and a disgrace to our system of justice. Leftists are trying to destroy individual freedoms every where they can.

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

 

[JoeMoma]

Here is my solution for the baker. Put up a plaque with Leviticus 18:22 on it:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

If a customer requests to order a cake decorated for a same sex wedding, point to the plaque and ask, are you sure you want me to make that cake, if I do it will be under protest.

If the customer insists, then make the cake. Maybe have the least skilled employee bake it and decorate it.

People, use some common sense. If a baker doesn't want to make a cake for your event, they you probably don't want that baker to make that cake for your event.

 

[martybegan]

Since antifa can get away with terrorism, I hope to see an antifaggot movement that beats the soddies back into the closet.

Dear OffensivelyOpenMinded and martybegan
While I totally agree with you that the liberal LGBT advocates are abusing govt unconstitutionally
to take sides and defend one belief while penalizing another, which to me is clearly unlawful,
both of your delivery merely ADDS fuel to the fire -- and is the reason these liberals cry VICTIM
and use that MEANNESS to scream they need govt protection.

You risk fueling and backing their whole argument of "SEE we are threatened and abused.
We suffer harassment if govt doesn't step in like they did to address BLACK discrimination"

The more you and others LAY OFF the attacks, and just stick to Constitutional arguments THOSE MIGHT WIN.

But the more you harass and abuse, that's the very justification behind asking govt help to intervene.
"Because of the need of protection from abuse, harassment and discrimination against LGBT"

QUIT FEEDING THE VICTIMS!
QUIT GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT which is proof of abuse and need for govt protections!

By all means, OOM and MB, keep fighting the good fight by enforcing CONSTITUTIONAL principles at stake here. That way we all win where equal protections are enforced to stop abuses.

But direct the arguments and attention THERE where we can WIN.
Don't flame the flamers or you get us all burned.

But attacks are fun, and mine are generic attacks against a specific poster, not generalized attacks against their orientation or sex.

 

[martybegan]

jake doesn't realize that PA does not mean "any time money changes hands", which is how idiots like him want to define it.

The scope of Public Accommodation laws though is defined by the State Legislature and what businesses (typically for profit) to which it applies. That you may not agree with how the Legislature defines Public Accommodation laws does not change the application of the law within the jurisdiction of that State law.


>>>>

PA laws don't trump 1st Amendment religious freedom laws at all; that's just some sociopath judge pandering to his political cronies and no 'law' can abridge it legally. If you want everyone to make up their own laws and how and when they should be enforced then don't be whining when the tables turn and you get tossed off a building because some Muslim judge declared it legal.

Take it up with the state lege, boyo. The legislature passes those laws, and, yes, they are constitutional.

What priests, pastors, ministers, reverends, etc., say "don't do business with homos?"

Really, are there any clergy who do that?

wrong laws and wrong applications are still wrong.

And it isn't up to me or government to say how a person practices their religion unless it actually harms me in some way, and butthurt isn't harm.

 

[IsaacNewton]

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

"Well except for gays, you can judge the holly hell out of them. I mean all these things I say are just me talking off the top of my head, you and I both know I really don't mean any of it, that's why it's written in the bible. And good lord nobody thinks they should follow the bible or what I say. They should just do what they want and then claim the bible says it's ok."

Except at the end of the bible you have...


Revelation 22:12-21

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have been a Christian for 60 years and never has my minister ever admonished the congregation to avoid commerce with homosexuals. Where did this hatful dogma come from? Are these 'Christian' bakers just twisting a beautiful loving and forgiving faith to serve a vile purpose? And seeking legal cover for their vile purpose, aren't they twisting an open and inclusive set of laws?

You can't label hate for others, that in itself is hateful. Nobody says it's hateful but leftists. Your congregation is not god, it's filled with flawed humans.

Christians, oddly enough, get the idea from the bible. It labels certain things as sinful so forcing a Christian to accommodate a sinful relationship is wrongheaded and a disgrace to our system of justice. Leftists are trying to destroy individual freedoms every where they can.

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Marty, you seem to be losing it. Muslim extremists stone homosexuals to death, Christian extremists discriminate against them; the distinction of manner matters not - both are vile.

You also seem to be obsessed with guns, for the record, guns kill people. The meme that people kill people, guns don't is childish: For want of a gun the victim was saved makes much more sense.

 

[JoeMoma]

You can't label hate for others, that in itself is hateful. Nobody says it's hateful but leftists. Your congregation is not god, it's filled with flawed humans.

Christians, oddly enough, get the idea from the bible. It labels certain things as sinful so forcing a Christian to accommodate a sinful relationship is wrongheaded and a disgrace to our system of justice. Leftists are trying to destroy individual freedoms every where they can.

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Marty, you seem to be losing it. Muslim extremists stone homosexuals to death, Christian extremists discriminate against them; the distinction of manner matters not - both are vile.

You also seem to be obsessed with guns, for the record, guns kill people. The meme that people kill people, guns don't is childish: For want of a gun the victim was saved makes much more sense.

How 'bout, for want of a gun the victim got mowed down by a truck instead! Oops... off topic. On topic, should I be able to order a cake decorated with "guns" if the baker is antigun?

 

[martybegan]

You can't label hate for others, that in itself is hateful. Nobody says it's hateful but leftists. Your congregation is not god, it's filled with flawed humans.

Christians, oddly enough, get the idea from the bible. It labels certain things as sinful so forcing a Christian to accommodate a sinful relationship is wrongheaded and a disgrace to our system of justice. Leftists are trying to destroy individual freedoms every where they can.

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Marty, you seem to be losing it. Muslim extremists stone homosexuals to death, Christian extremists discriminate against them; the distinction of manner matters not - both are vile.

You also seem to be obsessed with guns, for the record, guns kill people. The meme that people kill people, guns don't is childish: For want of a gun the victim was saved makes much more sense.

There is a huge difference between wanting to stone homosexuals and not wanting to make their wedding cake. that you have to equivocate them shows the shallowness of your position.

It was a comparison, and again an apt one.

And your penchant for disarming law abiding people in the hopes law breaking ones will stay disarmed is comical and really really stupid.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Amid the religious liberty cases increasingly heading to the courts, there’s one prominent legal battle that could potentially have some sweeping ramifications: Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission. It’s a case that surrounds baker Jack Phillips and his Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, Colorado. Phillips, much like Oregon bakers Aaron and Melissa Klein and numerous other wedding venders across the U.S.,


Christian Baker Not Backing Down After Gov’t Punishes Him for Refusing to Make Gay Wedding Cake

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well good for them standing their grounds on their beliefs..................
Go to another cake maker who doesn't give a rats ass would have been much simpler.
If I were to believe as they do because it was against my religion to do so I'd do the same dam thing I sure in the hell wouldn't cower down to some BS LAWS where just because some moron made it a law etc doesn't mean it is a fair nor right law.

Do onto others as you would have them do onto you is the value I learned in Catechism from the Nuns. It seems the baker in this situation and Hobby Lobby owners for example, are faux Christians - they go to church, wear the cross of Christianity but have been infected with hate, not the love of Christ's Gospel.

So when you leftist filth bags push to punish those who don't follow your line...YOU should expect the same when the tables are turned? Glad to hear that.

Dear OffensivelyOpenMinded and Wry Catcher
Sadly that's exactly what has been happening.
both sides persecute, harass and politically hang and punish each other over differences in beliefs.
Two wrongs don't make anything right.
At some point we will learn a better way, but both sides have to suffer the same consequences
to learn this approach doesn't work. Retribution feeds on itself and becomes self-destructive
to both sides that both lose. Just like war, it's a phase people go through to defend
their turf. Until we learn to manage conflicts and diverse groups more civilly. We will learn, eventually, but at what cost?

There is nothing civil about discrimination, and discrimination creates conflict. We should have learned from the labor movement and the civil rights movement but have not. The new Populism is an example of what is wrong when people are singled out because of their demand for equal rights, or their color, ethnicity or sexual orientation . Bakers who do discriminate are rewarded by other bigots, may lose customers (I'll never go to Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-a for example, or even Wal-Mart because I do not believe they reflect Traditional American Values).

That's my opinion, but I will never tell you or others not to frequent those who I believe foster discontent.

 

[Nosmo King]

What if health laws were passed that banned Kosher or halal slaughter?

Then those laws would be fought and REPEALED or else a Kosher or halal baker/restaurant would not get such a business license. See how easy that is?

You don't like a PA law, REPEAL IT....don't get a business license and think you can just ignore the laws/regs you pretend are against your "religion".

The big difference between kosher and haall restaurants is the menu. Kosher and halaal dishes are served. In the bakeries, wedding cakes are on the menu.

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

Departments of Health or Building Codes may do so only if there is an infraction of existing codes.

Kosher butchers perform ritual procedures assuring their products are, in fact, kosher.

A baker bakes wedding cakes as part of their business. A same sex couple is not asking for a product that exceeds the normal menu of services provided. A same sex wedding cake looks, incredibly, just like any other wedding cake. Or, to put it another way, a same sex wedding cake is indistinguishable from any other wedding cake. What's the problem?