Christianity no longer a religion, says Turkish minister

[Sally]

The Muslim Turks must be very afraid of Christianity deep down if they believe in what this guy is saying. One would think that the Turks would remember that Istanbul was once called Constantinople where the Christians were in charge.

Christianity no longer a religion, says Turkish minister
ISTANBUL - Doğan News Agency

Erdoğan Bayraktar. AA Photo



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Christianity has ceased to be a religion but has become a culture of its own, Turkish Environment and Urbanism Minister Erdoğan Bayraktar said at a recent conference hosted by the ruling Justice and Development Party's (AKP) Women's Group.

"The biggest three countries in the world are not Muslim countries. China, India – only the U.S. believes in a single God. Spirituality and religious feelings are weakening," Bayraktar said.

"There are 2.5 billion Christians in the world," Bayraktar said. "Christianity is no longer a religion. It's a culture now. But that is not what a religion is like. A religion teaches; it is a form of life that gives one peace and happiness. That is what they want to turn [Islam] into as well."

Continue reading at:

Christianity no longer a religion says Turkish minister - RELIGION

 

[TheOldSchool]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

 

[irosie91]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

why?

 

[TheOldSchool]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

why?

Because I don't believe in tickling Obama's wiener like the traitor libertards

 

[irosie91]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

why?

Because I don't believe in tickling Obama's wiener like the traitor libertards

I do not see the connection.. A logical response to the
prouncements in turkey regarding Christianity would be
comparable disenfranchisement of "islam" in civilized
nations----such as the USA, France, Great Britain and
India. I am, certainly IN FAVOR of declaring islam
NOT A RELIGION-------

 

[Mojo2]

This version of the story helps us to better understand what's going on.

Turkish minister: Christianity no longer a religion

Robert Spencer Sep 3, 2014 at 4:35pm

Bayraktar“There are 2.5 billion Christians in the world,” Bayraktar said. “Christianity is no longer a religion. It’s a culture now. But that is not what a religion is like. A religion teaches; it is a form of life that gives one peace and happiness. That is what they want to turn [Islam] into as well.” In other words, he is telling his audience to be on guard against those who try to water down, or should we say moderate, the teachings of Islam.

Those teachings, including, presumably, the teachings of jihad warfare against unbelievers and their subjugation under the rule of Islamic law. Coming from an official of the ostensibly secular regime in Turkey, this is a noteworthy statement: he is essentially saying that Turkish secularism, which restricts key aspects of Islam, must be opposed.

You are being redirected...

He's saying the fundamentalists have the correct interpretation of the Koran.

 

[Machaut]

The Muslim Turks must be very afraid of Christianity deep down if they believe in what this guy is saying. One would think that the Turks would remember that Istanbul was once called Constantinople where the Christians were in charge.

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

I'm not sure either of you understand his point.

Christianity is no longer a religion. It's a culture now. But that is not what a religion is like. A religion teaches; it is a form of life that gives one peace and happiness. That is what they want to turn [Islam] into as well.

Every time you see some whore like Snooki running around with a crucifix necklace, every time major retail chains put out their Christmas decorations and start their Christmas sales before Thanksgiving, and every time you see a mall Santa or special "Christmas episode" of a TV show, you're witnessing the complete validation of what Bayraktar said. Religion is something to be taken seriously and believed in honestly, not devalued by commercialization and meaningless repetition of verses.

This version of the story helps us to better understand what's going on.

Turkish minister: Christianity no longer a religion

Robert Spencer Sep 3, 2014 at 4:35pm

Bayraktar“There are 2.5 billion Christians in the world,” Bayraktar said. “Christianity is no longer a religion. It’s a culture now. But that is not what a religion is like. A religion teaches; it is a form of life that gives one peace and happiness. That is what they want to turn [Islam] into as well.” In other words, he is telling his audience to be on guard against those who try to water down, or should we say moderate, the teachings of Islam.

Those teachings, including, presumably, the teachings of jihad warfare against unbelievers and their subjugation under the rule of Islamic law. Coming from an official of the ostensibly secular regime in Turkey, this is a noteworthy statement: he is essentially saying that Turkish secularism, which restricts key aspects of Islam, must be opposed.

You are being redirected...

He's saying the fundamentalists have the correct interpretation of the Koran.

I didn't take this away from it at all, and I'm wondering how even Robert "Islamofascism Everywhere" Spencer could warp the Minister's words into such a message. Bayraktar's fear is that Islam will devolve into a culture of premarital sex, abortion on demand, broken families, low mosque attendance, lack of devotion among remaining mosque-goers, and a disconnect from the deeper, more meaningful nature of religion while clinging to a few trivial platitudes one either doesn't actually believe in or chooses not to practice due to some inconvenience it would cause. These are all things that have been plaguing Christianity for years.

Bayraktar clarifies what all religion, including Christianity, should be: "A religion teaches; it is a form of life that gives one peace and happiness." Religion is a personal affair--not in the sense that religious practices must be kept private, but that they must be sincere and relevant to the practicing individual. Christianity has shifted away from being that personal choice to accept God into one's life and is quickly becoming nothing more than a marketing ploy for both social and economic purposes. Dating websites like Christian Mingle, along with movies like God is Not Dead and Expelled, are what Bayraktar is talking about when he says Christianity is a culture rather than a religion. Much like how Disney may stamp a set of Mickey Mouse ears on something and instantly charge more for it, the "Christian" label is being misapplied to many people, things, and events that are in no way Christian, but are promoted as such to ensure their success among those who identify as Christians.

Nowhere in the statements we have read from Bayraktar did he criticize Christian theology. What he did comment on was the degradation of Christian teachings by pop culture, and expressed concern that the same would happen to his own religion.

 

[irosie91]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

 

[TheOldSchool]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

Beautiful prose!

 

[Machaut]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

He issued a wake-up call to Christians and Muslims everywhere. Do you want premarital sex to continue to be common amongst self-proclaimed Christians? Do you honestly believe that Jesus would approved of the broken families that are on the rise in the "culturally Christian" West? Is all of our sin somehow justified because we put up a tree for Christmas and eat chocolate rabbits on Easter?

 

[irosie91]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

He issued a wake-up call to Christians and Muslims everywhere. Do you want premarital sex to continue to be common amongst self-proclaimed Christians? Do you honestly believe that Jesus would approved of the broken families that are on the rise in the "culturally Christian" West? Is all of our sin somehow justified because we put up a tree for Christmas and eat chocolate rabbits on Easter?

if you imagine that pre-marital sex does not exist in the Islamic world------you are really clueless. In fact pre-marital
sex by devout muslims----is not at all uncommon---------not for the girls of course-----but for the boys? the double standard is alive and well in mecca and the gutters of every shariah cesspit-------and -----thruout the world of the UMMAH. Rape of kaffirahs is actually a DEED PLEASING to the pig king of jannah and then there are those girls owned by the family in shariah cesspits like Saudi Arabia---

 

[Sunni Man]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

He issued a wake-up call to Christians and Muslims everywhere. Do you want premarital sex to continue to be common amongst self-proclaimed Christians? Do you honestly believe that Jesus would approved of the broken families that are on the rise in the "culturally Christian" West? Is all of our sin somehow justified because we put up a tree for Christmas and eat chocolate rabbits on Easter?

You are 100% correct Machaut.

Many people in the West say that Islam needs to thru a Reformation like Christianity did a few centuries ago.

But when muslims see the devoution and secularization of Christianity into nothing but a hollow shell of it's former glory and place in society.

They say, no way Jose, we will keep Islam and our culture just like it has always been. ...

 

[Kondor3]

Turkey has been going slowly Militant Islamist over the past several years.

If it completes the process it will be kicked out of NATO and have zero chance of prospering alongside the EU.

Its' best hope is the Turkish Army, which has been the Guardian of the Secular Republic for several decades.

If the Army steps-in and removes the budding Islamists from power, Turkey can still be saved.

If not, the Islamists may win.

Not the end of the world, but it's going to create some major headaches for a while in that part of the world.

Interesting times.

 

[bodecea]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

Why? They are a NATO ally and secular like the U.S.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

Why? They are a NATO ally and secular like the U.S.

Because I'm a reactionary conservative lunatic now. I THOUGHT I MADE THAT CLEAR WITH THE AVIE DAMMIT BODE!!!!!!!

 

[bodecea]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

Tissue?

 

[bodecea]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

Why? They are a NATO ally and secular like the U.S.

Because I'm a reactionary conservative lunatic now. I THOUGHT I MADE THAT CLEAR WITH THE AVIE DAMMIT BODE!!!!!!!

Fascinating.

 

[Kondor3]

I would support a full on nuclear assault on the country of Turkey.

Why? They are a NATO ally and secular like the U.S.

Not for long, if they keep going in the direction they've been turning towards in recent years.

 

[Machaut]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

He issued a wake-up call to Christians and Muslims everywhere. Do you want premarital sex to continue to be common amongst self-proclaimed Christians? Do you honestly believe that Jesus would approved of the broken families that are on the rise in the "culturally Christian" West? Is all of our sin somehow justified because we put up a tree for Christmas and eat chocolate rabbits on Easter?

You are 100% correct Machaut.

Many people in the West say that Islam needs to thru a Reformation like Christianity did a few centuries ago.

But when muslims see the devoution and secularization of Christianity into nothing but a hollow shell of it's former glory and place in society.

They say, no way Jose, we will keep Islam and our culture just like it has always been. ...

But then this presents a problem as well, as culture in Muslim countries has changed drastically. During the Golden Age of Islam--the period from the time of Muhammad through at least the mid 13th Century--women had more rights than they had in even the West until very recently, and thanks to their location at the crossroads of three major continents, they experienced an explosion of knowledge in science, math, technology, and the arts. More recently, however, Muslim countries have been hit by a wave of control freak rulers, both among their clergy and their secular leaders. Rape victims are stoned to death for their "crime" of being raped, acid attacks are rampant (and even spreading into the West as these so-called "Muslims" immigrate there), honor killings are considered acceptable under the law, and religious dissent is banned in the country Islam originated from. A relevant quote from Sir Ahmed Hussain:

I firmly believe that Islam is the best religion in the world—I mean, Islam rightly understood and interpreted and not the Muhammadanism of some of our formularist Maulavies, who say that a man goes to Hell or Heaven according as he wears his trousers lower or higher than his ankles! They have degraded our religion by paying undue attention to formulas and forms to the exclusion and neglect of its living spirit and reality. The poet Hafiz rightly stigmatised their vain controversies when he said that چون نديدند حقيقت ره افسانه زدند "since they did not see the fact, they ran after fiction."

None of these things would've flown under Muhammad. The culture of Muslim countries has already begun to be corrupted, and looking at the Muslim populace of literally any Muslim-minority country with a significant Muslim immigrant population, you can see that their religion has largely been corrupted into a mere culture as well. They drink, engage in acts of violence, and commit other crimes at a rate disproportionate to their percentage of the general population. Even before them, however, came the Ottoman Empire and other "Muslim" governments who waged unprovoked war and performed forced conversions in clear defiance of the mandate in verse 2:256 of the Qur'an to "Let there be no compulsion in religion". We see such activities continuing under ISIS, al-Qaeda, and other terror groups.

So, with "our culture" having changed so wildly over the centuries, I cannot accept the idea of keeping it "just like it always has been" since the only constant over time has been the name, which is exactly what Minister Bayraktar was talking about.

 

[Machaut]

machaut----your comment justifying the filth of the Turkish pig ----EXCEEDS all expectations of the filth of Islamic depravity----the pig degraded Christianity from the POV of a depraved lump of excrement scimitar swinging rapist

He issued a wake-up call to Christians and Muslims everywhere. Do you want premarital sex to continue to be common amongst self-proclaimed Christians? Do you honestly believe that Jesus would approved of the broken families that are on the rise in the "culturally Christian" West? Is all of our sin somehow justified because we put up a tree for Christmas and eat chocolate rabbits on Easter?

if you imagine that pre-marital sex does not exist in the Islamic world------you are really clueless. In fact pre-marital
sex by devout muslims----is not at all uncommon---------not for the girls of course-----but for the boys? the double standard is alive and well in mecca and the gutters of every shariah cesspit-------and -----thruout the world of the UMMAH. Rape of kaffirahs is actually a DEED PLEASING to the pig king of jannah and then there are those girls owned by the family in shariah cesspits like Saudi Arabia---

I did not state that "pre-marital sex does not exist in the Islamic world". Such immediate topic changing only weakens your position, which is also severely undercut by the appearance of your position merely being limited to the opposite of what I've said.

Premarital sex isn't as much of a problem in the Muslim world as it is outside of it, although it is still a concern that needs addressing. Particularly, Muslims living in non-Muslim countries tend to commit rape at an unconscionably high rate, and also seem to get acquitted or otherwise set free more often. And no, the rape of non-Muslim women (I assume that's who you're referring to when you say "kaffirahs") is not pleasing to God or to anyone else with a shred of morality. I must wonder why you are going out of your way to promote a completely unsupported view of Islam that is similar to the views expressed by ISIS, the Taliban, and other terrorist organizations who treat non-Muslims as less than human.