Christians attempt to silence non-religious messages at Christmas

[Father Time]

Interesting to see the comments about Christians playing "victim" here when in fact the title of the article is "Atheists TAKE AIM at Christmas". Does that suggest to you that it is actually Christians attacking atheism in your mind? Never see atheists do that with regard to the religious days of ANY other religion -which I also find interesting.

By take aim they mean they're insulting it, something perfectly covered under free speech.
And how the hell did you got 'they're only attacking Christians' from the article? You'll notice the sign says "religion is myth and superstition", that covers ALL religions not just Christians.

The second ad says "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness sake."

Again this covers pretty much every religion not just Christianity.

(amazing what actually reading the article can do).

Atheists act as if Christians should constantly apologize for the fact the majority of Americans are Christians.

Really? I've never met any atheists like that.

How is this one then: Sorry you atheists are such a frigging tiny minority you actually believe that makes you "oppressed" just because the vast majority of other people don't share your atheistic beliefs. Deal with it. Gee, I manage to deal with the fact that atheists are some of the most intolerant, hypocritical, bigoted people I have ever met in my life.

And with that you get the award for the most ironic use of bigotry and baseless blanket statements.

This is a special day in Christianity -and rather than show the tolerance they falsely claim to have for others, the article says "atheists take aim at Christmas" instead.

Read the article. And just because it's Christmas doesn't mean they lose their free speech.

Which nutcases like you think is another fine opportunity to show your own intolerance of others by once again pretending when atheists attack Christmas and Christianity -it isn't really Christianity being attacked yet again. It is just Christians PRETENDING like it is.

Gee it almost sounds like you're pretending that if your faith is being insulted then you're being persecuted and personally attacked. Sorry but nothing is immune from insults and criticisms.

Gee, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you don't want to hear Christians complaining about the lack of tolerance from these kinds of people -then they should just quit being so blatanting intolerant then, huh?

And again if you had read the article you'd realize they weren't singling out Christians.

Instead of people like you demanding that Christians stop complaining about the intolerance shown by others. Pretending Christmas was made a federal holiday for the purpose of inviting others to slam and insult it -is ridiculous.

The 1st amendment allows the people to slam and insult anything they wish, if you want to make something insulting atheism that would also be protected. Free speech protection doesn't temporarily stop around Christmas time.

Would never happen with the religious days of any other religion here. The intolerance of the left even as they spew their hypocritical bs about how they are supposedly SOOO much more tolerant than Christians -is mindboggling. Hard to imagine any have an IQ in triple digits frankly.

There's a difference between insulting something and showing tolerance of something. You can do both.

YOU don't want to celebrate Christmas -then don't. I don't give a crap, I'm not going to insult anyone who does not, its your choice -and THAT is true tolerance. But because I do celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ -do me the same favor and keep your offensive comments about what you think about my religion, religious beliefs and special days within my religion -to yourself.

Why should people stifle their thoughts and speech just because you don't like it?

"Don't you dare say anything I don't like" isn't exactly tolerance by either of our definitions.

 

[KittenKoder]

By take aim they mean they're insulting it, something perfectly covered under free speech.
And how the hell did you got 'they're only attacking Christians' from the article? You'll notice the sign says "religion is myth and superstition", that covers ALL religions not just Christians.

The second ad says "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness sake."

Again this covers pretty much every religion not just Christianity.

(amazing what actually reading the article can do).


Really? I've never met any atheists like that.



And with that you get the award for the most ironic use of bigotry and baseless blanket statements.



Read the article. And just because it's Christmas doesn't mean they lose their free speech.



Gee it almost sounds like you're pretending that if your faith is being insulted then you're being persecuted and personally attacked. Sorry but nothing is immune from insults and criticisms.




And again if you had read the article you'd realize they weren't singling out Christians.



The 1st amendment allows the people to slam and insult anything they wish, if you want to make something insulting atheism that would also be protected. Free speech protection doesn't temporarily stop around Christmas time.



There's a difference between insulting something and showing tolerance of something. You can do both.



Why should people stifle their thoughts and speech just because you don't like it?

"Don't you dare say anything I don't like" isn't exactly tolerance by either of our definitions.

 

[Father Time]

As a side note the title of the article is really called
"Missing atheist sign found in Washington state "

Don't know why the original poster linked to it as
"Atheists take aim at Christmas"

In the article it actually does describe a Christian coalition that is trying to remove the "un-Godly campaign".

 

[KittenKoder]

As a side note the title of the article is really called
"Missing atheist sign found in Washington state "

Don't know why the original poster linked to it as
"Atheists take aim at Christmas"

In the article it actually does describe a Christian coalition that is trying to remove the "un-Godly campaign".

Again it's putting more into it so they can make something from nothing. In another thread they already proved (funny that it's one who claimed there was) that there is no 'war on christmas.'

 

[frazzledgear]

By take aim they mean they're insulting it, something perfectly covered under free speech.
And how the hell did you got 'they're only attacking Christians' from the article? You'll notice the sign says "religion is myth and superstition", that covers ALL religions not just Christians.

The second ad says "Why believe in a God? Just be good for goodness sake."

Again this covers pretty much every religion not just Christianity.

(amazing what actually reading the article can do).


Really? I've never met any atheists like that.


And with that you get the award for the most ironic use of bigotry and baseless blanket statements.



Read the article. And just because it's Christmas doesn't mean they lose their free speech.



Gee it almost sounds like you're pretending that if your faith is being insulted then you're being persecuted and personally attacked. Sorry but nothing is immune from insults and criticisms.




And again if you had read the article you'd realize they weren't singling out Christians.



The 1st amendment allows the people to slam and insult anything they wish, if you want to make something insulting atheism that would also be protected. Free speech protection doesn't temporarily stop around Christmas time.



There's a difference between insulting something and showing tolerance of something.



Why should people stifle their thoughts and speech just because you don't like it?

"Don't you dare say anything I don't like" isn't exactly tolerance by either of our definitions.

1. I didn't say it wasn't covered by "free speech". But are you under the impression that just because you can say something -you actually should? Never suffered any criticism yourself for opening your mouth when keeping it shut might have been the wiser course? If not, I suggest at your next family gathering you tell every family member what you REALLY think of them -boring, stupid, lazy slug, asshole, whatever -and see how that goes over. And tell anyone who gets upset about it that its "free speech" and all, so what are they complaining about? The criticism from Christians about how such people chose to use their free speech rights -is ALSO free speech. Got a problem with that? I have the exact same right to criticize what someone else has said as the person who said it -I hope you aren't under the impression that I don't. This is the most pathetic response you made -because MY free speech rights are never limited by the fact someone else chose to say something I disagreed with. But your response sure seems to imply that I have no right to express my own opinion here -by saying it was "free speech" -as if that meant I MUST keep my mouth shut about it! Where is that limitation on my free speech in the Bill of Rights?

2. The problem with pretending the atheists' message covers all religions -it was in direct response to just one. It is ALWAYS directed at just one. Ever see atheists set up public displays saying the same thing when it comes to any special days of Judaism? Islam? Even Wiccan?

3. You must not know many atheists then. I've met and known quite a few over the years and to a one, they are THE most intolerant and bigoted people I have ever met. But some mental defect makes them think that attacking the religious beliefs of others -for no other reason than the fact they don't share them -is a sign of just how "tolerant" they really are. In case you really didn't know this -it is the exact opposite.

4. Are you under the impression that I have lost my free speech rights? I have every right to criticize how someone else has chosen to exercise their free speech rights -just as you exercised your own to criticize me for what I said. I wasn't talking about whether they actually had the right to say it -I was talking about whether they SHOULD have said it. Totally different things. In case you still don't understand that one -reread number 1.

The difference is -you seem to be under the impression that I actually have no RIGHT to express my own opinion when the most intolerant in society decide to pretend that attacking my religion, my religious beliefs and the special days within my religion somehow shows THEIR "tolerance" -and also want to pretend that the fact I object to it, is actually showing my "intolerance".

I won't repeat myself about how such people are not likely to have IQs in the triple digits. This isn't a "free speech" issue -unless you are under some weird impression that if someone else says something I disagree with, I have no right to disagree. This is about TOLERANCE which has not been shown here and the fact that some dumb asses seem to think that Christians should just keep their mouths shut when their religion, religious beliefs and special days within their religion are ridiculed and attacked. Just like them -you apparently are under the delusion that if I object to it, I am actually being "intolerant". A rather irrational position to take you know. If atheists want to really portray themselves as "tolerant" -then they wouldn't show just how intolerant they really with such statements. I don't care if they don't share my beliefs -but they are really upset and can get really hostile about the fact that I don't share theirs. Which is INTOLERANCE.

 

[Father Time]

"Instead of people like you demanding that Christians stop complaining about the intolerance shown by others. Pretending Christmas was made a federal holiday for the purpose of inviting others to slam and insult it -is ridiculous."

"Christ -do me the same favor and keep your offensive comments about what you think about my religion, religious beliefs and special days within my religion -to yourself."

Those statements made me think that you wished to censor the attacks. If that was not your intention I apologize.

Yes I know the difference between can and should, no I'm not mean enough to insult my family, but if you think they shouldn't put up the sign that's fine with me. If you think they shouldn't be allowed to put up the sign that's where I get testy. I'm also fine with you criticizing them for it.

Anyway the signs are probably going to stay up during Hanukkah, but Islam, Wiccan etc. aren't really mainstream religions (at least not in the U.S.) so if they go after them in public with signs like that most people would just be confused. Much more effective to use broad strokes.

"You must not know many atheists then. I've met and known quite a few over the years and to a one, they are THE most intolerant and bigoted people I have ever met."

I know a lot, a lot of them don't even talk about religion till you bring it up (in fact I didn't even know what some of them believed till I asked). You shouldn't base your judgments of an entire group of people based off a few loudmouth crazies. There are crazy, judgmental jerks in pretty much every major group out there. And unfortunately they're also usually the loudest.

I have absolutely no problem with you criticizing people who attack your religion that's the beauty and double edge of free speech. I was under the impression you wanted those statements forcefully removed. Again if I was mistaken I do apologize.

To summarise:
Criticism is free speech
Counter criticism of the crtics/criticism is also free speech
Continued criticism of the counter critics from the original criticis is free speech
And it keeps going to infinity.

 

[frazzledgear]

"Instead of people like you demanding that Christians stop complaining about the intolerance shown by others. Pretending Christmas was made a federal holiday for the purpose of inviting others to slam and insult it -is ridiculous."

"Christ -do me the same favor and keep your offensive comments about what you think about my religion, religious beliefs and special days within my religion -to yourself."

Those statements made me think that you wished to censor the attacks. If that was not your intention I apologize.

Yes I know the difference between can and should, no I'm not mean enough to insult my family, but if you think they shouldn't put up the sign that's fine with me. If you think they shouldn't be allowed to put up the sign that's where I get testy. I'm also fine with you criticizing them for it.

Anyway the signs are probably going to stay up during Hanukkah, but Islam, Wiccan etc. aren't really mainstream religions (at least not in the U.S.) so if they go after them in public with signs like that most people would just be confused. Much more effective to use broad strokes.

"You must not know many atheists then. I've met and known quite a few over the years and to a one, they are THE most intolerant and bigoted people I have ever met."

I know a lot, a lot of them don't even talk about religion till you bring it up (in fact I didn't even know what some of them believed till I asked). You shouldn't base your judgments of an entire group of people based off a few loudmouth crazies. There are crazy, judgmental jerks in pretty much every major group out there. And unfortunately they're also usually the loudest.

I have absolutely no problem with you criticizing people who attack your religion that's the beauty and double edge of free speech. I was under the impression you wanted those statements forcefully removed. Again if I was mistaken I do apologize.

To summarise:
Criticism is free speech
Counter criticism of the crtics/criticism is also free speech
Continued criticism of the counter critics from the original criticis is free speech
And it keeps going to infinity.

Sheesh. Who cares if it is free speech when that isn't the point of the discussion at all? Does that somehow totally negate my own argument in your feeble mind or what? LOL People who counter something another person has said with the "free speech" crap have no better argument and resort to it BECAUSE they have no better argument -and pretend the fact it is all free speech somehow renders the whole thing meaningless. Only in the minds of someone with an IQ in double digits, sorry. Free speech was never related to a damn thing I said.

In what way have you actually addressed the real discussion here with your silly "summary"?

 

[frazzledgear]

Again it's putting more into it so they can make something from nothing. In another thread they already proved (funny that it's one who claimed there was) that there is no 'war on christmas.'

Proved it to your satisfaction when you've already made it quite clear your standards are near non-existent, huh? Are you under the impression that I must subscribe to your pitiful standards then? There is NO reason for any group to come out with attacks on ANY religion during the special or holy days of that religion -except to attack it and reveal their INTOLERANCE of those with different beliefs. The fact that Christmas still exists doesn't mean the attacks aren't happening. The fact that Christmas is still a special day for the majority in this country doesn't mean it isn't happening either. How many believe and still celebrate it in spite of the attacks isn't the issue here.

I grew up without EVER hearing any public attacks on ANY religion, the religious beliefs or the special days of ANY religion. For any reason. No one who was truly tolerant would even think of such a thing. Which is why THAT is actually quite typical of TOLERANT people. Tolerant people don't CARE what someone else believes as long as they are left in peace to believe what they choose. Intolerant people are not satisfied with that and HATE the fact others don't believe as they do. So who is doing the real attacking here at Christmas? DUH.

Maybe if you grew up during a time when attacking one religion, in particular attacking just one on one of the most special days of their religion was actually typical and people figured since it was the religion of the majority it didn't matter much -you might actually have different standards, huh? Apparently you really do.

Christians don't spend the Christmas season attacking atheists for their lack of belief. That you think the fact atheists respond by targeting one religion on one of their holiest days to denounce and ridicule it -is what? Business as usual about how "intolerant" those nasty Christians are? I would be no less outraged if atheists had put up this identical public display in response to Ramadan. Tolerant people just don't do that!

I have to tell you and while I'm not trying to insult you, I know it will -but some of the statements on this thread, including yours -with the real lack of rational and logical thinking -only justifies my comment about the double digit IQs. This really isn't rocket science -if you don't want to hear Christians (or those of any other religion) complain, then quit attacking their religion, religious beliefs and holy days! DUH again.

I'm not talking about whether atheists have the right to do so or not -of course they do. I am only talking about what is meant by real "tolerance" and whether you want to hear Christians respond to it or not. You can't attack the religious beliefs of one group and then complain when they respond -and then hypocritically pretend the fact they don't just take it in the shorts isn't "fair" somehow. Deciding to NOT to target others because they don't believe what you do is the REAL sign of TOLERANCE. Coming out and criticizing those who believe differently -is intolerance. Turning around and insisting when those attacked complain about it is somehow a sign of THEIR intolerance -is a mental illness. The fact that Christians object to hearing their religion, religious beliefs and special days of their religion come under attack -is NOT a sign of their intolerance. It is a sign of the intolerance being shown to them by others only.

Just because people have a right to say something -doesn't mean they SHOULD. A lesson I learned the hard way when I was all of FOUR YEARS OLD. Apparently one that a few on this thread have yet to learn.

 

[Father Time]

What was the original discussion?

It's gone off topic so many times I lost count.

Let's see the topic was about an atheist sign and an attempt by some Christian organization to get it removed (well that's what it seems).

Or are you referring to your point about tolerance?

Insulting ideas is not intolerance. Criticism is not intolerance.

I can think your idea or philosophy is idiotic and tell you that. Intolerance would be trying to stop you from practicing your belief.

This isn't disrupting a church service or anything like that, it's just a sign.

They're not targeting the people who are religious, they're attacking their beliefs, their philosophies etc. you see this as a bad thing but it's not intolerance.

I know this may seem like a very offensive comparison so forgive me for that, attacking the idea that there are UFOs is not intolerant to the people who believe they exist. Even if it's on the anniversary of the Roswell crash.

As said before some atheists believe religion is a bad thing and so they're expressing it.

 

[frazzledgear]

What was the original discussion?

It's gone off topic so many times I lost count.

Let's see the topic was about an atheist sign and an attempt by some Christian organization to get it removed (well that's what it seems).

Or are you referring to your point about tolerance?

Uh, is this a "special" time for atheists and the day has the same kind of importance in their lack of religious beliefs as it has for Christians? If so, I would have no problem here at all. But since atheists have no religious beliefs at all, it appears they have simply tried to exploit the religious beliefs and the special day of a specific religion in order to do nothing more than display their own lack of tolerance for those with different beliefs.

Would you be outraged if Christians put up a sign denouncing Islam as a false and demonic religion and had it placed right next to a display intended to respect those of Muslim beliefs, particularly at a time that held special meaning for Muslims but none for Christians at all? I would. Very much so. I'm not talking about whether they have the right to do so. It just isn't an appropiate forum for that. Which makes me wonder about your lack of outrage in this instance. The special days of a particular religion are not the appropiate forums for expressing your own different beliefs about a day that has no special significance to you at all. Tolerant people just don't do that. The fact you still insist on defending this -is an expression of your intolerance only.

 

[Father Time]

I don't think it's intolerance, I think it's stupid and akin to shooting themselves in the foot to display it right next a nativity scene.

I'm not outraged because I don't let minor things like this get to me.

It definitely qualifies as rude and unnecessary, but apparently we have different definitions of the word intolerance (which I think is a word that has lost a lot of meaning through mangling and overuse from both right and left).

 

[YWN666]

The reason the season is jolly is because of Christmas. The fact that this time period occupies the month of December is mere happenstance.

What about Hannukah or the other religious holidays in December?

 

[catzmeow]

Who said anything about being an expert? I've been around long enough to read plenty of paranoid and hysterical posts by you just on this thread alone.

Lighten up. 'Tis the season to be jolly.

Merry Christmas, High Dancer. God bless us, everyone.

 

[Amanda]

Insulting ideas is not intolerance. Criticism is not intolerance.

I can't wait to see you at the next "Christians are intolerant bigots because they don't embrace homosexuality" weenie roast.

 

[Frolicking Dino]

I don't see why a lighted tree doesn't become the universal symbol of the holiday season. The lighted tree has it roots in the pagan celebration adopted by Christians as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ (Constantine set this up after he converted to Christianity and missed his old pagan festival....) The tree as a symbol could celebrate several of the major religions that have holidays on December 25 or near that time.

 

[sky dancer]

Merry Christmas High Dancer. God bless us, everyone.

Same to you, Cactus-ow, Merry Christmas. God bless you. Peace on earth, and genuine good will to all.

 

[AllieBaba]

As a side note the title of the article is really called
"Missing atheist sign found in Washington state "

Don't know why the original poster linked to it as
"Atheists take aim at Christmas"

In the article it actually does describe a Christian coalition that is trying to remove the "un-Godly campaign".

No, it's a Christian coalition defending their own right to free speech. Which is what the atheists are trying to intimidate them into giving up.

 

[sky dancer]

No, it's a Christian coalition defending their own right to free speech. Which is what the atheists are trying to intimidate them into giving up.

Please point to the HUGE numbers of atheists intimidating Christians. How many atheists are there in the US? How many Christians? How are atheists organized? How are Christians organized?

Where in America can Christmas celebrations and greetings not be found?

Can an atheist be elected as President of the United States in this day and age?

Do atheists have the right to free speech?

 

[FistyTheBadger]

What about Hannukah or the other religious holidays in December?

Hanukkah is not the reason December is jolly.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

I don't see why a lighted tree doesn't become the universal symbol of the holiday season. The lighted tree has it roots in the pagan celebration adopted by Christians as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ (Constantine set this up after he converted to Christianity and missed his old pagan festival....) The tree as a symbol could celebrate several of the major religions that have holidays on December 25 or near that time.

No it fucking ****...I mean can't. That tree is only used for Christmas. It is a Christmas Tree. Find your own fucking symbols.