Common Sense & Mass Murder

[M14 Shooter]

Notice, not one single post by those who oppose any and all gun controls have made mentioned of the victims, those shot, those killed; their family and friend....

Because rational, reasoned people aren't swayed by fallacious appeals to emotion .
For every gun used to commit murder yesterday, > 12.7 million were not.
Your knee-jerk reactionary response: SEE!!! WE --NEED-- TO RESTRICT THE RIGHTS OF THE LAW ABIDING!!!!

Yeah, god knows it's silly to get emotional about mass shootings like last weekend's, or like Newtown's, or like Las Vegas'.
Anyone who doesn't get emotional about that has something wrong with them.

As I said:
Because rational, reasoned people aren't swayed by fallacious appeals to emotion.
Your feelings do not create a sound argument for the restriction of my rights.

 

[rjs330]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

Exactly. They don't really want common sense regulations. They want all the guns. As we have seen over and over again these common sense regulations don't work. We have yet to see a proposal put forward that would have prevented these killings.

The Republicans get on board with legislation because they too are political. They don't want to be seen as "heartless" when kids are killed. So more dumb bills are passed that actually don't do anything.

Why post when you have nothing to offer? You begin with an echo, the damn lie that gun control = gun confiscation.

Your second borrowed opinion negates how other nations do not have gun violence anywhere near what we have here.

There is no law which prevents law breakers from breaking the law. Most citizens obey laws because they are common sense, such as not going through a red light. And when they do and get caught they are punished.

Okay then, my offer is to allow more law abiding people to have guns and carry them concealed or openly.

It's not a lie, it's what you want. Evidence? Your mentioning of other nations. In those nation's they have the strictest anti gun laws which prohibit their citizens from having guns. Which IS gun confiscation. You have not offered ANYTHING that would stop the issue at hand. Not one thing.

Give us the common sense gun legislation that would stop the situation. Please.

 

[rjs330]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.
.

A gun cannot murder anyone. People murder people. The gun is just the method. I'm sure that none of those 3 would have been any happier if they had been blown up to Kingdom Come with dynamite, or if they were decapitated with a scimitar.

Another stupid analogy by a thoughtless person.

• Dynamite requires a license to purchase, and the purchaser's identification is recorded.
• Using a knife or other device to decapitate someone require stealth, strength and likely a struggle
• Guns can be purchased on the black market, stolen or purchased; no record is kept on private sales purchases

So what your answer?

 

[rjs330]

So far the reasons - so to speak - of those who oppose any and all gun control is limited to:

• "Shall not be infringed"
• Gun don't kill, people kill
• It's my right
• Confiscation (slippery slope argument)
• attacks on Democrats, liberals and progressives.

Notice, not one single post by those who oppose any and all gun controls have made mentioned of the victims, those shot, those killed; their family and friend; the cost by LE to respond, EMT's to Respond, hospitals to respond; the disruption to life of those thousands of people who attended, or will attend functions anywhere in the United States do to their selfish and callous disregard for others.

Notice than NONE of you have actually offered a solution to the problem. What exactly is common sense regulations?

 

[Wry Catcher]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

Exactly. They don't really want common sense regulations. They want all the guns. As we have seen over and over again these common sense regulations don't work. We have yet to see a proposal put forward that would have prevented these killings.

The Republicans get on board with legislation because they too are political. They don't want to be seen as "heartless" when kids are killed. So more dumb bills are passed that actually don't do anything.

Why post when you have nothing to offer? You begin with an echo, the damn lie that gun control = gun confiscation.

Your second borrowed opinion negates how other nations do not have gun violence anywhere near what we have here.

There is no law which prevents law breakers from breaking the law. Most citizens obey laws because they are common sense, such as not going through a red light. And when they do and get caught they are punished.

Okay then, my offer is to allow more law abiding people to have guns and carry them concealed or openly.

It's not a lie, it's what you want. Evidence? Your mentioning of other nations. In those nation's they have the strictest anti gun laws which prohibit their citizens from having guns. Which IS gun confiscation. You have not offered ANYTHING that would stop the issue at hand. Not one thing.

Give us the common sense gun legislation that would stop the situation. Please.

What distinguishes a criminal from a law abiding citizen?

I know from experience, having a gun in one's possession can have some people act recklessly, when they should not have acted at all.

So far the reasons - so to speak - of those who oppose any and all gun control is limited to:

• "Shall not be infringed"
• Gun don't kill, people kill
• It's my right
• Confiscation (slippery slope argument)
• attacks on Democrats, liberals and progressives.

Notice, not one single post by those who oppose any and all gun controls have made mentioned of the victims, those shot, those killed; their family and friend; the cost by LE to respond, EMT's to Respond, hospitals to respond; the disruption to life of those thousands of people who attended, or will attend functions anywhere in the United States do to their selfish and callous disregard for others.

Notice than NONE of you have actually offered a solution to the problem. What exactly is common sense regulations?

Q. What are common sense regulations

A. Licensing & Registration

• Each individual state which wants to can pass legislation requiring anyone in their state, who wants to own, possess or have in their custody and control a firearm needs to:
  • Pass a gun safety course
  • Pass a background check
  • Register and insure their firearms
  • Have never been convicted of a crime of violence; detain as a danger to themselves or others, or been served with a protective order, to stay away from anyone.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So far the reasons - so to speak - of those who oppose any and all gun control is limited to:

• "Shall not be infringed"
• Gun don't kill, people kill
• It's my right
• Confiscation (slippery slope argument)
• attacks on Democrats, liberals and progressives.

Notice, not one single post by those who oppose any and all gun controls have made mentioned of the victims, those shot, those killed; their family and friend; the cost by LE to respond, EMT's to Respond, hospitals to respond; the disruption to life of those thousands of people who attended, or will attend functions anywhere in the United States do to their selfish and callous disregard for others.

The ‘reasons’ are also as ignorant as they are ridiculous.

The Second Amendment is not ‘unlimited’ – government has the authority to place regulations and restrictions on the possession and commercial sales of firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence – rendering ‘it’s my right’ and ‘shall not be infringed’ null and void.

‘Gun don't kill, people kill’ is inane sophistry.

‘Confiscation’ is not only a slippery slope fallacy, it’s also a red herring fallacy and strawman fallacy – given the fact no one advocates for ‘confiscation’ and that any measure authorizing ‘confiscation’ would be invalidated by the courts.

And attacks on Democrats, liberals, and progressives fail as ad hominem fallacies.

So much for conservatives’ ‘reasons’ to oppose firearm regulatory measures.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What distinguishes a criminal from a law abiding citizen?

Can't imagine. Tell us why you are not a law abiding citizen.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Second Amendment is not ‘unlimited’ – government has the authority to place regulations and restrictions on the possession and commercial sales of firearms consistent with Second Amendment jurisprudence –

Yes... just like it has the authority to place restrictions on the right to free speech and the right to an abortion, consistent with the relevant jurisprudence.
So... thanks, Captain Obvious.

rendering ‘it’s my right’ and ‘shall not be infringed’ null and void.

Except of course, in instances where "my right" IS infringed, such as in Heller, where the USSC struck down every single regulation put before it, and upheld none.

‘Gun don't kill, people kill’ is inane sophistry.

Just like forks and spoons didn't make you fat.

 

[KGB]

Why not reevaluate the 1st Amendment and the 5th Amendment for that matter? Hell, reevaluate the whole freaking Bill of Rights if you think you can get a couple of votes from ignorant Americans. It's a sad thing that three Americans were gunned down by a maniac but nobody seems to care about the hundreds of people murdered in Commings Baltimore.

Man, you guys get more stupid every post. How many people have been murdered because of the First Amendment; How many shot by the 5th Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment isn't the reason anyone has been killed either. It's the moral decay in society the past 50 years which caused this.....

Get real. The 2nd A. has been focused on "shall not be infringed" by the NRA, gunsmiths and salesmen who seek profits not healthy outcomes for their consumers.

Shall not be infringed is a myth, one which no longer (if it ever did) carry weight:

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4825&context=lcp

The Intro to this link:

In its important and controversial 2008 decision on the meaning of the Second Amendment, District of Columbia v. Heller,1 the Supreme Court ruled that average citizens have a constitutional right to possess handguns for personal selfprotection in the home.2 Yet in establishing this right, the Court also made clear that the right was by no means unlimited, and that it was subject to an array of legal restrictions, including: “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”3 The Court also said that certain types of especially powerful weapons might be subject to regulation,4 along with allowing laws regarding the safe storage of firearms.5 Further, the Court referred repeatedly to gun laws that had existed earlier in American history as a justification for allowing similar contemporary laws,6 even though the court, by its own admission, did not undertake its own “exhaustive historical analysis” of past laws.7

Gee thanks for the law review

Still doesn’t take away from the fact that the Amendment (the Right) itself isn’t to blame here, but the moral decay is the absolute reason.

 

[Blues Man]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

List the thousands and I'll get back to you.

How about just the federal I'm not going to list all the laws in all 50 states

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct.../guncard.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0zrwPq9mwOQBgUTkU4f3Q9

 

[Blues Man]

So far the reasons - so to speak - of those who oppose any and all gun control is limited to:

• "Shall not be infringed"
• Gun don't kill, people kill
• It's my right
• Confiscation (slippery slope argument)
• attacks on Democrats, liberals and progressives.

Notice, not one single post by those who oppose any and all gun controls have made mentioned of the victims, those shot, those killed; their family and friend; the cost by LE to respond, EMT's to Respond, hospitals to respond; the disruption to life of those thousands of people who attended, or will attend functions anywhere in the United States do to their selfish and callous disregard for others.

How about evidence that proves when gun laws are actually enforced that crime and murder rates see a statistically significant drop?
Virginia Project Exile
Study 1
Firearm Homicide Rates, Project Exile
Rosenfeld and colleagues (2005) found a statistically significant intervention effect for Project Exile. Firearm homicides in Richmond exhibited a 22 percent yearly decline, compared with the average reduction of about 10 percent per year for other large U.S. cities. The difference is statistically significant.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why not reevaluate the 1st Amendment and the 5th Amendment for that matter? Hell, reevaluate the whole freaking Bill of Rights if you think you can get a couple of votes from ignorant Americans. It's a sad thing that three Americans were gunned down by a maniac but nobody seems to care about the hundreds of people murdered in Commings Baltimore.

Man, you guys get more stupid every post. How many people have been murdered because of the First Amendment; How many shot by the 5th Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment isn't the reason anyone has been killed either. It's the moral decay in society the past 50 years which caused this.....

Get real. The 2nd A. has been focused on "shall not be infringed" by the NRA, gunsmiths and salesmen who seek profits not healthy outcomes for their consumers.

Shall not be infringed is a myth, one which no longer (if it ever did) carry weight:

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4825&context=lcp

The Intro to this link:

In its important and controversial 2008 decision on the meaning of the Second Amendment, District of Columbia v. Heller,1 the Supreme Court ruled that average citizens have a constitutional right to possess handguns for personal selfprotection in the home.2 Yet in establishing this right, the Court also made clear that the right was by no means unlimited, and that it was subject to an array of legal restrictions, including: “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”3 The Court also said that certain types of especially powerful weapons might be subject to regulation,4 along with allowing laws regarding the safe storage of firearms.5 Further, the Court referred repeatedly to gun laws that had existed earlier in American history as a justification for allowing similar contemporary laws,6 even though the court, by its own admission, did not undertake its own “exhaustive historical analysis” of past laws.7

Gee thanks for the law review

Still doesn’t take away from the fact that the Amendment (the Right) itself isn’t to blame here, but the moral decay is the absolute reason.

The moral decay? Explain exactly what you mean and who is responsible for the "moral decay".

If one reads the 2nd A. without bias, its ambiguity is obvious. And the amendment is not to blame, it is the propaganda which misleads the biddable that "arms" means guns, and gun ownership is not to be infringed. Yet it is.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Q. What are common sense regulations
A. Licensing & Registration

These are unnecessary and ineffective; as such the are infringements and violate the constitution.
Thus, there's no sense at all to them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If one reads the 2nd A. without bias, its ambiguity is obvious.

It might have been at one time, had the court not resolved said ambiguity:

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

What do you choose to not understand?

And the amendment is not to blame, it is the propaganda which misleads the biddable that "arms" means guns, and gun ownership is not to be infringed.

Propaganda... like the text of the amendment and current jurisprudence?

Yet it is.

How is the right to keep and bear arms infringed?

 

[Wry Catcher]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

List the thousands and I'll get back to you.

How about just the federal I'm not going to list all the laws in all 50 states

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=2ahUKEwicusjBjuTjAhURSK0KHUOpAxIQFjAZegQICRAC&url=https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0zrwPq9mwOQBgUTkU4f3Q9

I suppose they are enforced, even though they are violated every day. Common sense suggests that all guns be registered with both the state and federal government, and when sold or stolen the transaction include a bill of sale with both parties identified.

 

[Third Party]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

I'm not clear, did the gun kill these 3, or did the person holding the gun?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

If you get nothing else from this thread.......

It should be clear that these radical leftists definitely are wanting to take away your means of self defense.
No matter what other bullshit they candy coat their lies with.

Every one of their "common sense" suggestions is designed to give government more power to control your rights and also to identify gun owners. Wonder why?

 

[martybegan]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

List the thousands and I'll get back to you.

How about just the federal I'm not going to list all the laws in all 50 states

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=2ahUKEwicusjBjuTjAhURSK0KHUOpAxIQFjAZegQICRAC&url=https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0zrwPq9mwOQBgUTkU4f3Q9

I suppose they are enforced, even though they are violated every day. Common sense suggests that all guns be registered with both the state and federal government, and when sold or stolen the transaction include a bill of sale with both parties identified.

So Thieves will be leaving receipts now?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Common sense suggests that all guns be registered with both the state and federal government, and when sold or stolen the transaction include a bill of sale with both parties identified.

This is a lie - as this is an unnecessary and ineffective restriction on the rights of the law abiding, there's no sense in this whatsoever.

 

[Blues Man]

The 6 year old, 13 year old and a young man murdered by a gun lost their right to life, liberty and happiness.

Common sense gun regulations may not prevent a monster from getting a gun, but no regulations assure a monster will get a gun and kill innocent people.

It's past time to reevaluate the Second Amendment, and to face the reality that the majority of members of Congress put their job security first, in spite of the costs in blood and treasure that their inaction allows. There is enough ambiguity in the wording of the 2nd to allow Congress, and/or State Legislatures or City Councils to pass regulations which protect the people they represent.

Then let the NRA go broke defending their outdated policies.

We already have thousands of gun laws on the books that aren't enforced which ones of those are not "common sense"?

List the thousands and I'll get back to you.

How about just the federal I'm not going to list all the laws in all 50 states

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=26&ved=2ahUKEwicusjBjuTjAhURSK0KHUOpAxIQFjAZegQICRAC&url=https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ut/legacy/2013/06/03/guncard.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0zrwPq9mwOQBgUTkU4f3Q9

I suppose they are enforced, even though they are violated every day. Common sense suggests that all guns be registered with both the state and federal government, and when sold or stolen the transaction include a bill of sale with both parties identified.

But they aren't enforced

Every time someone is caught illegally possessing a firearm he has committed a federal crime but how often do gun charges get dropped in plea deals?

What would the most violent areas in the country look like if every person who was caught illegally possessing a firearm got 5 years in a federal prison?

There is no need to register guns in order to get the fucking criminals who illegally possess guns off the street.

It worked in Richmond VA when they did it but they stopped because no one had the balls to keep it up the minute someone said that the people being sent to federal prison were unproportionally minorities