Companies can't find Workers who can hold a Conversation or Show Up on Time

[G.T.]

ALL economic growth, and thus higher wages and living standards, comes from increases in productivity.

Yes, but...

Increases in productivity (and technology) can and do also create slack in workforce as fewer people are needed for those jobs.

And, since we are now a society of victims who cannot be expected to adapt and improve their skillset, that will leave many out.

We'll just let folks from other countries, those who aren't into being victims, take up the slack.

.

A quarter of all jobs today exist in government industry classifications that didn't exist 50 years ago.

Sure, the opportunity is there, but we have to make the effort to match our skillsets to the opportunity.

In this culture? Nope, not so far. Easier to point the finger and complain.

.

You mean going to school to get tech/computer degrees is not INCREASING, trend-wise??

THATS weird.

 

[G.T.]

Maybe it's violent crime that Mac's getting this impression from?

But.....it's downward trending since the 1980's.

How mass manipulated by the news ARE old people, mac?

Production is up. Degrees matching the modern tech boom are UP. Labor force participation is taking a part expected (baby boomer retirements) part recession driven down-trend, but it's not as low as it was in the 1950's.

United States Crime Rates1960 - 2013

Being old doesn't dismiss you from facts and data.

 

[G.T.]

Capitalism has driven this tech boom.
This tech boom has created a vastly different means of communication.
People magically communicate different.

Must mean the young whipper snappers have no manners and work ethic. Nothing to do with America's drive toward technological advancement since the Industrial Revolution. (before, even).

This thread is exactly the same trend as all of recorded history (look up socrates quotes on this).

Old people always think younger people are somehow worse. Facts, data, and understanding be damned.

 

[G.T.]

ALL economic growth, and thus higher wages and living standards, comes from increases in productivity.

Yes, but...

Increases in productivity (and technology) can and do also create slack in workforce as fewer people are needed for those jobs.

And, since we are now a society of victims who cannot be expected to adapt and improve their skillset, that will leave many out.

We'll just let folks from other countries, those who aren't into being victims, take up the slack.

.

A quarter of all jobs today exist in government industry classifications that didn't exist 50 years ago.

Sure, the opportunity is there, but we have to make the effort to match our skillsets to the opportunity.

In this culture? Nope, not so far. Easier to point the finger and complain.

.

Let me translate: toro was telling you that the effort WAS made to match the skillset - as evidenced by the fact the jobs didnt even previously EXIST but people magically qualified for and filled them.

 

[rightwinger]

Its not just punctuality

I see many businesses having dificulty finding workers who have not lost their license

 

[Skull Pilot]

It has nothing to do with that .

When you are at the job you agreed to work if you don't do that job to the best of your ability then you have no self respect.

It has nothing to do with how much time you work but what you do with the time you are at work.

I would have thought that concept needed no explanation but I see it does with you.

Guy, respect is a two way street. Usually, there aren't bad employees, there are just bad managers. People who never should have been made managers to start with but they are.

You pay people minimum wage and treat them like shit, and the government does more for them than you do, they are going to hve more loyalty to the government than you. That's how Obama got elected, dude. "I look like the guy you work with, Romney looks like the guy who lays you off."

Doesn't matter.

If you agree to due something then you should do it and do it well. Period.

If you agree to do something and half as it then you have no self worth.

It's called integrity

Get some

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah all that new technology is bad for the economy

It's been horrible for the economy, but the real problem is free trade. A bigger problem is that you have airlines making record profits while airline pilots are making $20,000 a year. That's fucking insane.

Yeah right

 

[Old Rocks]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

Yes, there are post secondary technical schools. Like Portland Community College. And it will cost you over $100 dollars per credit to go there. So try to hold a 40 hr. work week job at $10 per hr, put a roof over your head, and have something to eat, and go to that school, even part time. Now I see many students doing exactly that, but they are dead tired, and not learning anywhere near their abilities because of fatigue.

The first two years of college, or two years of technical education should be free to those that can qualify and get a C or better average. That would ease the present dearth of skilled people we need in industry.

 

[Old Rocks]

Capitalism has driven this tech boom.
This tech boom has created a vastly different means of communication.
People magically communicate different.

Must mean the young whipper snappers have no manners and work ethic. Nothing to do with America's drive toward technological advancement since the Industrial Revolution. (before, even).

This thread is exactly the same trend as all of recorded history (look up socrates quotes on this).

Old people always think younger people are somehow worse. Facts, data, and understanding be damned.

LOL. Yep. Been hearing about the feckless younger generation for 71 years. Now that I am back in school with them, I have to agree. Look at all the nice hair those damned kids have on top of their heads. Look how they can work all day, and party half the night, and all I do is crash at the end of the day. Look at how they don't bulge in all the wrong places. Yessireeeeeee................... Them young kids are worse than I ever was. LOL.

In truth, I find the young people today no differant than what I saw 50 years ago with my peers. Of course, they have grown up in a differant world. We did not have the communications then, nor the access to the knowledge the young people have today. But the percentage that actually use that access is about the same as the percentage 50 years ago that read books. And about the same percentage are goofy, as the were that percentage in the 60's.

It is a differant time, with differant skill sets. Toro stated that one quarter of the jobs that exist today did not exist 50 years ago. I will add to that. The skill sets in jobs that have continued to exist are very differant than what the were fifty years ago. Were I to continue in my trade, millwright, for another 20 years, I would need to go back to school for it. Too many things have changed that I have not kept up on. However, as I expect physical limiltations, I will not work at a job where others have to carry me, to force retirement in a couple of years, I have chosen to get a degree in Geology, and work at a less demanding occupation.

 

[Marxist]

Many bosses don't treat people well, as shown by most capitalists in poor areas around the world, india, china, the third world, fast food..

Your boss isn't your mommy.

I don't speak to third world shit holes. India and China became shit holes by adopting Socialism. They are slowly clawing their way out of the cesspool by adopting market driven policies. Less people physically starve to death today, than when Socialism was in full bloom in India, but the nation remains impoverished. India never fell as deeply into the sewer as China did - life is still brutal in the Communist shit hole. China has become a typical gangster state - which is inevitable with Socialism. Government stolen goods are openly sold on the black market, well connected thugs reap the rewards while the enslaved masses toil. Communism always yields the same results, death, misery, and bitter despair.

The amount of uneducated bullshit in this post is hilarious. China has become a gangster state? Imperialist countries haven't? Communism has been put into place? Really? What stateless society are you referring to? Ah, the usual death, misery, and despair bullshit, what's interesting is that almost half of russians when polled supported/support stalin's policies. Mao also has large amounts of support in china. Your boss isn't your mommy? Yes, I know the capitalist doesn't care about the well being of the proletariat. Third world shit holes consistently being destroyed by capitalism. You can look at the "rising" employment and the poverty numbers set by capitalists, but you show me the pay, the quality of life for the laborers in china/india, and countries like Haiti, the congo.. Their labor is consistently exploited. Yeah, you wonder why they're third world shit holes, how do you think first world countries get materialistic goods so cheap? Show me your data on India and china, and I'd like you to observe countries that have had "market" and capitalist influence for long periods of time that are consistent shit holes. Capitalism relies on systemic poverty, exploitation of labor, wasting of surplus goods..

More people have been pulled out of abject poverty by capitalism than your failed ideology.

That's why communism has been abandoned for market reforms by almost every country in the world. And one of the last ones, Cuba, is about to do so soon.

If you want to

Many bosses don't treat people well, as shown by most capitalists in poor areas around the world, india, china, the third world, fast food..

Your boss isn't your mommy.

I don't speak to third world shit holes. India and China became shit holes by adopting Socialism. They are slowly clawing their way out of the cesspool by adopting market driven policies. Less people physically starve to death today, than when Socialism was in full bloom in India, but the nation remains impoverished. India never fell as deeply into the sewer as China did - life is still brutal in the Communist shit hole. China has become a typical gangster state - which is inevitable with Socialism. Government stolen goods are openly sold on the black market, well connected thugs reap the rewards while the enslaved masses toil. Communism always yields the same results, death, misery, and bitter despair.

The amount of uneducated bullshit in this post is hilarious. China has become a gangster state? Imperialist countries haven't? Communism has been put into place? Really? What stateless society are you referring to? Ah, the usual death, misery, and despair bullshit, what's interesting is that almost half of russians when polled supported/support stalin's policies. Mao also has large amounts of support in china. Your boss isn't your mommy? Yes, I know the capitalist doesn't care about the well being of the proletariat. Third world shit holes consistently being destroyed by capitalism. You can look at the "rising" employment and the poverty numbers set by capitalists, but you show me the pay, the quality of life for the laborers in china/india, and countries like Haiti, the congo.. Their labor is consistently exploited. Yeah, you wonder why they're third world shit holes, how do you think first world countries get materialistic goods so cheap? Show me your data on India and china, and I'd like you to observe countries that have had "market" and capitalist influence for long periods of time that are consistent shit holes. Capitalism relies on systemic poverty, exploitation of labor, wasting of surplus goods..

More people have been pulled out of abject poverty by capitalism than your failed ideology.

That's why communism has been abandoned for market reforms by almost every country in the world. And one of the last ones, Cuba, is about to do so soon.

Yes, I can agree capitalism pulls people out of poverty at first and with intense regulation, but by nature, it cannot end poverty, and it cannot sustain itself

 

[jillian]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

 

[martybegan]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

There are quite a few, Aviation is one of them (My father is a grad)

Aviation Career Technical Education High School - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Aviation High School is certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the training of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians (AMTs). Students who successfully complete the school's rigorous technical programs are allowed to take their FAA certification examinations without further qualification.

In order to achieve this, students at the school spend about three to four periods every day in "shop," technology related classes that concentrate on every aspect of an aircraft's structure, systems, and components, as well as more general aviation subjects such as aerodynamics and Federal Aviation Regulations. These specialized classes are taught by FAA-certificated AMTs, many of whom are themselves alumni of the school.

 

[Papageorgio]

If you accept a job then you do your best .Period.

If you don't then you have no self respect.

I have to sympathize with the kids on the tardiness issue, they were taught by public school teachers.

Many of the teachers I taught with were late at least one day a week, many were late almost every day.

The solution our brilliant school board came up with was to required us to come earlier.

Same people were still late, the punctual just had to come earlier.

We even went to time cards, and it did not help; teachers would get one teacher to punch in the cards for four or five.

But, cliquishness in public schools is another story.

How long did it take for you to learn to get to work on time?

It doesn't have to be taught. You know how to tell time, you know how long it takes you to get up shower and get dressed, you know how long it takes to get to work.

It seems like common sense to me

Strange that people can't be on time. I had an employee, he couldn't be on time, I talked with him, I worked with him and finally suspended him. The suspension was what got his attention.

If you can't respect your job or your fellow employees,to be on time, then you have no respect for your work.

 

[rightwinger]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

When I went to school in New York, the county ran vocational schools (BOCES)

I think they are still there

 

[jillian]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

There are quite a few, Aviation is one of them (My father is a grad)

Aviation Career Technical Education High School - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Aviation High School is certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the training of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians (AMTs). Students who successfully complete the school's rigorous technical programs are allowed to take their FAA certification examinations without further qualification.

In order to achieve this, students at the school spend about three to four periods every day in "shop," technology related classes that concentrate on every aspect of an aircraft's structure, systems, and components, as well as more general aviation subjects such as aerodynamics and Federal Aviation Regulations. These specialized classes are taught by FAA-certificated AMTs, many of whom are themselves alumni of the school.

thanks. my dad went to automotive high school. he went back to college when he was about 30.

there used to be many more vocational high schools. I think they're very important.

 

[martybegan]

I wonder if its got anything to do with the type of people who would manufacture for whatever pay theyre offering.

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

There are quite a few, Aviation is one of them (My father is a grad)

Aviation Career Technical Education High School - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Aviation High School is certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the training of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians (AMTs). Students who successfully complete the school's rigorous technical programs are allowed to take their FAA certification examinations without further qualification.

In order to achieve this, students at the school spend about three to four periods every day in "shop," technology related classes that concentrate on every aspect of an aircraft's structure, systems, and components, as well as more general aviation subjects such as aerodynamics and Federal Aviation Regulations. These specialized classes are taught by FAA-certificated AMTs, many of whom are themselves alumni of the school.

thanks. my dad went to automotive high school. he went back to college when he was about 30.

there used to be many more vocational high schools. I think they're very important.

Having more of them is only 1/2 the fight. We have to get parents to realize that having your kids go to vocations is not a stigma. For the past few decades the "everybody goes to college" mentality has de-valued vocational learning, as well as working (even as an apprentice) right after high school. How do you convince parents their "precious little flower" is more suited to a manual skilled trade than 4 years at a college? The same parents that have been brought up under the "college or bust" mentality we see today?

 

[jillian]

there is that. there is also the problem of these same people having their intro jobs taken by older people unable to find work because of outsourcing and bush's crash of the economy. so they don't have experience in the work world when they go in.

also, perhaps we should reinstate school programs like shop and maybe a return to vocational high schools for the people who maybe aren't cut out for 4 year colleges.

i'm skeptical about the article. and there are many reasons such a situation can exist... like applications being done online and older workers who cost more being rejected out of hand for the inexperienced.

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

There are quite a few, Aviation is one of them (My father is a grad)

Aviation Career Technical Education High School - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Aviation High School is certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the training of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians (AMTs). Students who successfully complete the school's rigorous technical programs are allowed to take their FAA certification examinations without further qualification.

In order to achieve this, students at the school spend about three to four periods every day in "shop," technology related classes that concentrate on every aspect of an aircraft's structure, systems, and components, as well as more general aviation subjects such as aerodynamics and Federal Aviation Regulations. These specialized classes are taught by FAA-certificated AMTs, many of whom are themselves alumni of the school.

thanks. my dad went to automotive high school. he went back to college when he was about 30.

there used to be many more vocational high schools. I think they're very important.

Having more of them is only 1/2 the fight. We have to get parents to realize that having your kids go to vocations is not a stigma. For the past few decades the "everybody goes to college" mentality has de-valued vocational learning, as well as working (even as an apprentice) right after high school. How do you convince parents their "precious little flower" is more suited to a manual skilled trade than 4 years at a college? The same parents that have been brought up under the "college or bust" mentality we see today?

I think most parents understand whether or not their kid is cut out for a four year college. ... at least the people I've met understand what their kids are and aren't good at.

and, frankly, college is too expensive to waste the money if your kid isn't going to benefit from it.

 

[martybegan]

there are still vocational high schools

And there are all kinds post secondary technical schools

there are still PUBLIC vocational high schools? not that I know of in New York. There should be, though.

There are quite a few, Aviation is one of them (My father is a grad)

Aviation Career Technical Education High School - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Aviation High School is certified by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the training of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians (AMTs). Students who successfully complete the school's rigorous technical programs are allowed to take their FAA certification examinations without further qualification.

In order to achieve this, students at the school spend about three to four periods every day in "shop," technology related classes that concentrate on every aspect of an aircraft's structure, systems, and components, as well as more general aviation subjects such as aerodynamics and Federal Aviation Regulations. These specialized classes are taught by FAA-certificated AMTs, many of whom are themselves alumni of the school.

thanks. my dad went to automotive high school. he went back to college when he was about 30.

there used to be many more vocational high schools. I think they're very important.

Having more of them is only 1/2 the fight. We have to get parents to realize that having your kids go to vocations is not a stigma. For the past few decades the "everybody goes to college" mentality has de-valued vocational learning, as well as working (even as an apprentice) right after high school. How do you convince parents their "precious little flower" is more suited to a manual skilled trade than 4 years at a college? The same parents that have been brought up under the "college or bust" mentality we see today?

I think most parents understand whether or not their kid is cut out for a four year college. ... at least the people I've met understand what their kids are and aren't good at.

and, frankly, college is too expensive to waste the money if your kid isn't going to benefit from it.

Even in the mid 90's we had plenty of kids at my College who really shouldn't have been there, and most flunked out within two years. From what I see of most parents of kids under 10, they fight to get their kids in special programs, and most of those are not designed to feed into vocational programs.

In NYC the push to get your kids into the right program starts in freaking kindergarten. Yes, some of the kids do deserve to be in them, but all of them? THAT is the mentality that needs working on.

 

[G.T.]

College is becoming more and more cost prohibitive and at the same time, that sentiment is spreading and becoming more vocalized.

Itll come to a head.

But please, old conservative curmudgeons, dont pretend workers arent what they "used to be."

More productive now than ever. Its a new world, that's all.

Johnny Apple Genius can barely know how to converse all he wants - that fact doesnt take away from his countless hours of coding in order to press out the newest, latest and greatest technologies.

 

[G.T.]

When books had to be chizzled the chizzlers probably looked at the guys with the new tools as less hard workers.

Lawn mowers with self propel vs. Guys who had to manually push.

Self propelled walking mowers to ride ons, but low bag capacities/often have to empty .

Often have to empty to larger bag capacities.

Pushing math problems on paper to inputting calculations onto machines.

Turning the tv stations on the tv itself.
To remote controls
To now, my kinect changes the channels by vocal command

I still have 8 blisters from raking this weekend and.bust my ass to keep my house prim and proper for my family. As easier ways come along, im not less of a worker for not taking them. Im just not retarded.