Confederate Flag vs. Ground Zero Mosque?

[bigrebnc1775]

You don't have that choice. The southern states..well that land..belongs to the United States of America.

You..do have a choice to leave. No one is stopping you.

Back for more I see? The states belonged to the states it did not belong to the federal government. The only proprety the feads own was the terrotries.

This is why I constantly say..Sherman didn't go far enough.

The south should have been completely crushed after the war. The Romans knew how to do this. They lined the roads with the bodies of the vanquished.

It's to bad..that the North gave into humantarian concerns.

You're full of shit, the south had reason to leave it was called unfair taxes. Check it out and we can start the fight again if you like?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

That's revolting.

you ought to have that as your signature...because we all know most everything you post can be considered 'revolting'

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I imagine a lot of people fly the rebel flag as a sort of rah rah our team football mentality.

That doesn't detract from the fact that it symbolizes treachery and failure.

Sure they do, but most all who fly the Confederate Flag have no connection to the Confederacy of Old.

We all know it's a coded racist bullshit symbol.

Just exactly when did the Confederate Battle flag become a symbol of racism?
Would you say this image was a symbol of racism? When did any racist group start using it?

The Confederate Flag and all of it's cousins (the battle flags) were racist right out of the gate.

The Confederacy declared war on the United States over the issue of the right to own and trade blacks as property.

end of story

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sure they do, but most all who fly the Confederate Flag have no connection to the Confederacy of Old.

We all know it's a coded racist bullshit symbol.

Just exactly when did the Confederate Battle flag become a symbol of racism?
Would you say this image was a symbol of racism? When did any racist group start using it?

The Confederate Flag and all of it's cousins (the battle flags) were racist right out of the gate.

The Confederacy declared war on the United States over the issue of the right to own and trade blacks as property.

end of story

You are to stupid to realize your speaking an untruth. It wasn't until after the cenntineal of the of the civil war that the kkk started using the battle flag the always used the stars and stripes

So it's a racist flag? is this gentalman a racist?

This flag served the same purpose as the battle flag would you call it a racist flag?

Tell me that you are aware that blacks also owned slaves?

 

[manifold]

Just one more thing regarding slavery...

While the 'Confederacy' hasn't practiced it for a century and a half now, Islam to this day still enslaves an entire gender.


True story

 

[AllieBaba]

Islam also still practices plain old every day slavery.

 

[Sheldon]

Just exactly when did the Confederate Battle flag become a symbol of racism?
Would you say this image was a symbol of racism? When did any racist group start using it?

The Confederate Flag and all of it's cousins (the battle flags) were racist right out of the gate.

The Confederacy declared war on the United States over the issue of the right to own and trade blacks as property.

end of story

You are to stupid to realize your speaking an untruth. It wasn't until after the cenntineal of the of the civil war that the kkk started using the battle flag the always used the stars and stripes

So it's a racist flag? is this gentalman a racist?

This flag served the same purpose as the battle flag would you call it a racist flag?

Tell me that you are aware that blacks also owned slaves?

Point is, the stars and bars means different things to different people. To some it's a symbol of Southern heritage and a culture that's distinct from the North and the West.

To others, it's a symbol of slavery because it's association with one of the core ideals (I use that word loosely) the South was fighting to preserve.

You may not like that people hold the latter view, but there's no denying that others do feel that way about the Confederate flag--even if the KKK used to rally behind the stripes.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Confederate Flag and all of it's cousins (the battle flags) were racist right out of the gate.

The Confederacy declared war on the United States over the issue of the right to own and trade blacks as property.

end of story

You are to stupid to realize your speaking an untruth. It wasn't until after the cenntineal of the of the civil war that the kkk started using the battle flag the always used the stars and stripes

So it's a racist flag? is this gentalman a racist?

This flag served the same purpose as the battle flag would you call it a racist flag?

Tell me that you are aware that blacks also owned slaves?

Point is, the stars and bars means different things to different people. To some it's a symbol of Southern heritage and a culture that's distinct from the North and the West.

To others, it's a symbol of slavery because it's association with one of the core ideals (I use that word loosely) the South was fighting to preserve.

You may not like that people hold the latter view, but there's no denying that others do feel that way about the Confederate flag--even if the KKK used to rally behind the stripes.

It only means racism because it's what people have been taught. Those who call it a symbol of racism are also calling the blacks who fought and died for that flag a racist and that is a dishonor to those men. The core values of the south was not slavery it was an issue the core value was money Both with the north and the south.

 

[Sheldon]

You are to stupid to realize your speaking an untruth. It wasn't until after the cenntineal of the of the civil war that the kkk started using the battle flag the always used the stars and stripes

So it's a racist flag? is this gentalman a racist?

This flag served the same purpose as the battle flag would you call it a racist flag?

Tell me that you are aware that blacks also owned slaves?

Point is, the stars and bars means different things to different people. To some it's a symbol of Southern heritage and a culture that's distinct from the North and the West.

To others, it's a symbol of slavery because it's association with one of the core ideals (I use that word loosely) the South was fighting to preserve.

You may not like that people hold the latter view, but there's no denying that others do feel that way about the Confederate flag--even if the KKK used to rally behind the stripes.

It only means racism because it's what people have been taught. Those who call it a symbol of racism are also calling the blacks who fought and died for that flag a racist and that is a dishonor to those men. The core values of the south was not slavery it was an issue the core value was money Both with the north and the south.

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Point is, the stars and bars means different things to different people. To some it's a symbol of Southern heritage and a culture that's distinct from the North and the West.

To others, it's a symbol of slavery because it's association with one of the core ideals (I use that word loosely) the South was fighting to preserve.

You may not like that people hold the latter view, but there's no denying that others do feel that way about the Confederate flag--even if the KKK used to rally behind the stripes.

It only means racism because it's what people have been taught. Those who call it a symbol of racism are also calling the blacks who fought and died for that flag a racist and that is a dishonor to those men. The core values of the south was not slavery it was an issue the core value was money Both with the north and the south.

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

Yes their was a number of black who voluntered. Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves. As a regiment the Confedrate Government did not have whole units of blacks but never the less blacks joined indiviually with differant corps.

Forest had 42 of his slaves and in 1863 he gave them their freedopm and they stayed with him.

As far as a number no one really knows. I have heard of close to a million but I doubt it. I suspect the number would be closer to 100,000 a little more and maybe a little less.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

http://www.ncdcr.gov/news/2003/opa_2-26-03.pdf

Call this Gentalman

For information on black Confederates, call Earl Ijames at 919/733-3952.

 

[Sallow]

Back for more I see? The states belonged to the states it did not belong to the federal government. The only proprety the feads own was the terrotries.

This is why I constantly say..Sherman didn't go far enough.

The south should have been completely crushed after the war. The Romans knew how to do this. They lined the roads with the bodies of the vanquished.

It's to bad..that the North gave into humantarian concerns.

You're full of shit, the south had reason to leave it was called unfair taxes. Check it out and we can start the fight again if you like?

First off..it was about slaves..

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans.

 

[Ravi]

Just one more thing regarding slavery...

While the 'Confederacy' hasn't practiced it for a century and a half now, Islam to this day still enslaves an entire gender.


True story

What does that have to do with your silly premise?

 

[Sheldon]

It only means racism because it's what people have been taught. Those who call it a symbol of racism are also calling the blacks who fought and died for that flag a racist and that is a dishonor to those men. The core values of the south was not slavery it was an issue the core value was money Both with the north and the south.

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

Yes their was a number of black who voluntered. Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves. As a regiment the Confedrate Government did not have whole units of blacks but never the less blacks joined indiviually with differant corps.

Forest had 42 of his slaves and in 1863 he gave them their freedopm and they stayed with him.

As far as a number no one really knows. I have heard of close to a million but I doubt it. I suspect the number would be closer to 100,000 a little more and maybe a little less.

I'm just not going to take you at your word. So I did your work for you.

Did blacks fight in combat for the Confederacy? The Civil War Gazette

Some people have suggested that as many as 30,000 blacks took on the uniform and actually fought for the South, but does the historical record support that amount? What exactly does the historical record provide us with any kind of confidence to be able to answer this question?


In short, if one sticks solely to the historical record for primary evidence of the black soldier picking up arms and fighting for the South, one can only conclude that the support for such a claim is scanty at best – merely anecdoctal – and entirely unsubstantiated at worst. Instead of the widely claimed and purported number of 30,000 fighting black soldiers for the Confederacy, an honest look at the historical record leads one to the conclusion that as little as under a hundred to as many as several hundred blacks may have actually engaged in combat for the South during the Civil War by actually carrying and discharging a weapon. How to interpret that evidence – or lack thereof – is left to the professional and armchair historians to debate.

For the Union side at least, the historical record is fairly definitive and clear: we know that about 9-12% of the Union Army was filled by black troops, depending on if one goes with the figure of 180,000 or 200,000 black Union troops serving. Black Union soldiers participated in at least 41 major battles and roughly 450 smaller actions. 37,000 black Union soldiers died in the Civil War. Though early black troops were not aggressively deployed as bearers of arms, it is the case that by the middle of the war, at least, more and more black Union troops were entrusted to carry arms and to perform in combat action.


CWG has discovered that historians and staff – notably Robert Krick – at Spotsylvania National Battlefield Park have sifted through about 100,000 soldiers’ records to see how many non-whites were represented. Non-whites could be blacks, Native Americans, and mulattoes. They found that only 20-30 non-whites were found out of 100,000 soldiers’ records. That is less than 1/300th of one percent. Taking into account that the following estimate involves more conjecture than a good historian would be comfortable with applying to acceptable methods of reliable historical inquiry, one can still get a fairly solid “finger in the air” estimate that if that same ratio of 1/300th was applied to the figure-range of 750,000 – 900,000 Confederates serving during the war from 1861-1865, then one could only reasonably conclude that, at best, between 250-300 black soldiers may have served in the Confederate Army, and of those an even much smaller percentage would have been entrusted to take up arms.

Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves.

What is the relevance of this? And what is a "large number"?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is why I constantly say..Sherman didn't go far enough.

The south should have been completely crushed after the war. The Romans knew how to do this. They lined the roads with the bodies of the vanquished.

It's to bad..that the North gave into humantarian concerns.

You're full of shit, the south had reason to leave it was called unfair taxes. Check it out and we can start the fight again if you like?

First off..it was about slaves..

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans.

First off..it was about slaves..

Slavery is what you have been taught was the root cause, no it was no and that is the truth.

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

They would have been traitors if they would have fought against their country, which to the men of the south their state was their country.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans

Lincoln would have been brought up on charges for murder if he had done that. The north had no grounds for charging the leaders of the south with treason. I have already shown you the proof.

 

[Ravi]

It only means racism because it's what people have been taught. Those who call it a symbol of racism are also calling the blacks who fought and died for that flag a racist and that is a dishonor to those men. The core values of the south was not slavery it was an issue the core value was money Both with the north and the south.

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

Yes their was a number of black who voluntered. Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves. As a regiment the Confedrate Government did not have whole units of blacks but never the less blacks joined indiviually with differant corps.

Forest had 42 of his slaves and in 1863 he gave them their freedopm and they stayed with him.

As far as a number no one really knows. I have heard of close to a million but I doubt it. I suspect the number would be closer to 100,000 a little more and maybe a little less.

None of this means slavery was a good thing.

But go on pretending you believe the Civil War wasn't about slavery...it seems to make you feel better.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

Yes their was a number of black who voluntered. Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves. As a regiment the Confedrate Government did not have whole units of blacks but never the less blacks joined indiviually with differant corps.

Forest had 42 of his slaves and in 1863 he gave them their freedopm and they stayed with him.

As far as a number no one really knows. I have heard of close to a million but I doubt it. I suspect the number would be closer to 100,000 a little more and maybe a little less.

I'm just not going to take you at your word. So I did your work for you.

Did blacks fight in combat for the Confederacy? The Civil War Gazette

Some people have suggested that as many as 30,000 blacks took on the uniform and actually fought for the South, but does the historical record support that amount? What exactly does the historical record provide us with any kind of confidence to be able to answer this question?


In short, if one sticks solely to the historical record for primary evidence of the black soldier picking up arms and fighting for the South, one can only conclude that the support for such a claim is scanty at best – merely anecdoctal – and entirely unsubstantiated at worst. Instead of the widely claimed and purported number of 30,000 fighting black soldiers for the Confederacy, an honest look at the historical record leads one to the conclusion that as little as under a hundred to as many as several hundred blacks may have actually engaged in combat for the South during the Civil War by actually carrying and discharging a weapon. How to interpret that evidence – or lack thereof – is left to the professional and armchair historians to debate.

For the Union side at least, the historical record is fairly definitive and clear: we know that about 9-12% of the Union Army was filled by black troops, depending on if one goes with the figure of 180,000 or 200,000 black Union troops serving. Black Union soldiers participated in at least 41 major battles and roughly 450 smaller actions. 37,000 black Union soldiers died in the Civil War. Though early black troops were not aggressively deployed as bearers of arms, it is the case that by the middle of the war, at least, more and more black Union troops were entrusted to carry arms and to perform in combat action.


CWG has discovered that historians and staff – notably Robert Krick – at Spotsylvania National Battlefield Park have sifted through about 100,000 soldiers’ records to see how many non-whites were represented. Non-whites could be blacks, Native Americans, and mulattoes. They found that only 20-30 non-whites were found out of 100,000 soldiers’ records. That is less than 1/300th of one percent. Taking into account that the following estimate involves more conjecture than a good historian would be comfortable with applying to acceptable methods of reliable historical inquiry, one can still get a fairly solid “finger in the air” estimate that if that same ratio of 1/300th was applied to the figure-range of 750,000 – 900,000 Confederates serving during the war from 1861-1865, then one could only reasonably conclude that, at best, between 250-300 black soldiers may have served in the Confederate Army, and of those an even much smaller percentage would have been entrusted to take up arms.

Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves.

What is the relevance of this? And what is a "large number"?

At leasyt I am also providing alink
Black Confederates and the American Civil War

While a large number of blacks served in various support roles, the estimates concerning combatants’ ranges from 50,000 to 90,000. This latter figure comes from Nelson Winbush, a recognized authority on the subject. Mr. Winbush is a retired schoolteacher and grandson of Louis N. Nelson, a black Confederate veteran who rode with General Nathan Bedford Forrest.
1862blackCSN


In 1861, many free black companies were formed throughout the South with a Lynchburg newspaper commenting on the enlistment of 75 free blacks to fight for the defense of the State, concluding with “three cheers for the patriotic Negroes of Lynchburg!” The “Richmond Howitzers” who saw action at First Manassas in 1861 were an integrated artillery unit and at least two regiments, one free and one slave, fought in the battle. It is estimated that between 50,000 to 65,000 blacks fought as combatants in Confederate forces and nearly all on an unofficial basis.

Confederate Digest: Black Confederate Troops in the War Between the States

This is how sherman felt about blacks

Enlistment in the Interior

During the Atlanta campaign of May-September 1864, General Sherman opposed black enlistment with word and deed. An avowed white supremacist and a reluctant liberator at best, Sherman made no effort to conceal his contempt for blacks or to disguise the racist dogma behind his opposition to black soldiers.
New Georgia Encyclopedia: Black Troops in Civil War Georgia

Maryland, 3,000 Blacks with Stonewall


New York Herald, July 11, 1863
After the battle of Gettysburg in July 1863, ...reported among the rebel prisoners were seven blacks in Confederate uniforms fully armed as soldiers..."
- New York Herald, July 11, 1863. [1]

Black Confederates

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You're going to have try a better argument than the "disrespecting the dead soldiers" guilt trip. Do you have any legit sources for the number of blacks who *voluntarily* fought for the Confederacy?

Yes their was a number of black who voluntered. Oh an theire was a large number of blacks who owned slaves. As a regiment the Confedrate Government did not have whole units of blacks but never the less blacks joined indiviually with differant corps.

Forest had 42 of his slaves and in 1863 he gave them their freedopm and they stayed with him.

As far as a number no one really knows. I have heard of close to a million but I doubt it. I suspect the number would be closer to 100,000 a little more and maybe a little less.

None of this means slavery was a good thing.

But go on pretending you believe the Civil War wasn't about slavery...it seems to make you feel better.

I'm not defending slavery I am defending the men who are falsely accused

I have never said that the war wasn't about slavery I said it was one of the causes. Just like in the north freeing slaves was not the reason they fougt.

 

[Sheldon]

You're full of shit, the south had reason to leave it was called unfair taxes. Check it out and we can start the fight again if you like?

First off..it was about slaves..

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans.

Slavery is what you have been taught was the root cause, no it was no and that is the truth.

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

They would have been traitors if they would have fought against their country, which to the men of the south their state was their country.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans

Lincoln would have been brought up on charges for murder if he had done that. The north had no grounds for charging the leaders of the south with treason. I have already shown you the proof.

There were other factors, but ensuring that slavery was upheld was *the* overriding reason for the Soufern governments coming together and seceding from the Union. It was about the powerful few staying rich through exploitive labor.

Even your boy Jefferson said that slavery was going to tear this nation apart, and he was right.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

First off..it was about slaves..

Secondly..even if you were correct..which you are not..it doesn't matter. They were traitors and what they did was treachery. Much worse then a foreign element.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans.

Slavery is what you have been taught was the root cause, no it was no and that is the truth.

They would have been traitors if they would have fought against their country, which to the men of the south their state was their country.

Third..the fact that the south constantly flirts with secession and war means they did not get the message. Lincoln should have executed every single southern son of a bitch that dared attacked Americans

Lincoln would have been brought up on charges for murder if he had done that. The north had no grounds for charging the leaders of the south with treason. I have already shown you the proof.

There were other factors, but ensuring that slavery was upheld was *the* overriding reason for the Soufern governments coming together and seceding from the Union. It was about the powerful few staying rich through exploitive labor.

Even your boy Jefferson said that slavery was going to tear this nation apart, and he was right.

For three states in their ordinance of secession slavery was the cause but not for the other states. North Carolina did not want to leave the union but did not want to be caught in the middle from the North and south from South Carolina.