Confederate Memorials and Monuments - what history do they represent?

[usmbguest5318]

Lol, could you at least give the post number?

Sure; absolutely:

• Post 14
• Post 38
• Post 241

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm sorry, but for me and on the matter of race and the divisiveness it causes and that we observe in the U.S., neutrality and indifference simply doesn't cut it. Each and every one of us must be accountable on the matter of race. We all must pick a side.

Doesnt that divide the country?

And that is the whole point of what the Marxists are TRYING to do, dude.

Doesnt that divide the country?

No. The differences are already present. Insisting that people "stand up and be counted" merely tells us the extent of them. Knowing that, along with other things, helps inform us of how we might proceed and deal with the extant differences.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I don't know about you, but seceding from their state strikes me as a fairly convincing protest. One that likely wouldn't get very far these days.

Of course they did *I* posted the links to their stories, but all of them (except for W Virginia) still fought to protect their homes from Union hordes.

Which once again demonstrates that the American Civil War was NOT ALL about slavery, hence the statues are not either ALL about slavery.

I'm sorry, but I've already referenced quite a lot of highly credible content in this thread that shows the Civil War was all about the South, the Confederates, successfully seceding from the United States and that the Confederacy was "all about" slavery. I 'm not going to repost or restate all that stuff.

Ok, but it is not legit as long as my counterpoints stand.

That is how debate works, dude.

Your counter points are addressed in the content I linked well before you posted them. That's why I'm not going over them again.

Lol, could you at least give the post number?

You kinda have to make your own arguments, instead of saying "The answers are else where go look"

Till then your counterpoints are not made.

Besides, I think you think you countered my arguments, but I doubt that you really did.

You kinda have to make your own arguments, instead of saying "The answers are else where go look"

For long settled matters, why the hell do I need to "reinvent the wheel?"

For instance, that question you asked about Lincoln's views on slavery and his decisions in accordance with them preceding, during and after the Civil War...on that topic, entire books have been written and passed muster over decades of critical evaluation. I don't have something new to add to that line of analysis/discussion/questioning; I doubt anyone else here does.

 

[Syriusly]

Don't have the guts to what? Respond to your pansy posts on USMB?

To tear down a statue when I have repeatedly said I am against mobs tearing down a statue?

LOL- what a pissy little snowflake you are.

I'm not the one demanding statues come down because I get my feelings hurt by looking at it. You want them down and support the pussies that approve of it.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point- along with being able to chew your food and walk.

I haven't once demanded that any statues come down.

You pussies just are pissed because some communities have decided to no longer honor your heroes.

This just makes you a liar.

Point out my lie- if you aren't a typical contard cowardly pussy.

That anyone is pissed because communities don't want to support my heros.

First lie. They are not My heroes.
Second lie. Some communities are not deciding this on their own, but are being threatened with violence.
Biggest lie. That this is anything other than censoring free speech.

Since I was responding to a post by someone else- why do you believe you are one of the cowardly pussies I was speaking about?

Note you haven't provided a single quote of mine that is a lie- just your own snowflake hurt feelings.

Once again- my position- which you snowflakes are so offended about:

1. All vandalism and violence is wrong- I am fine with vandals being arrested, and that murderers like the driver in Charlottesville was arrested.
2. Local communities should make their own decisions on which monuments to have.
3. That only a total idiot would think that removing a statue of Robert E. Lee is 'censoring free speech'

 

[Syriusly]

This just makes you a liar.

Some communities are caving into a national campaign of pressure where if the local community does not take these statues down, the violence will escalate even more until they capitulate.

It would be one thing if the community voted to take these down without the entire nation putting pressure on them. In fact, if those communities really thought they should not be displayed, they would have quietly removed them and no one would have noticed.

Now it's a national blackmail campaign by the progressive pussies who are butthurt over some iron, copper, and stone, so they wish to censor those who had no problem with their existence to begin.

Apparently Durham NC didn't act quickly enough for the vandals.

If these statues were so much of a problem, why haven't they been taken down during the almost 100 years someone them have been up?

Yes. We have already seen that if a community does not act as swiftly as the butthurt Antifa crowd wishes of them, they will escalate the violence and start tearing down these statues. Not much of a council vote in that instance, is there?

The vandals don't care if there is a vote or not. Since there wasn't a vote in Durham, NC, the statue should be put back up and those cowards made to watch.

Tell me about the vote to erect them...

They weren't put up without a vote. Quite different than the pieces of shit that pull them down without one.

They weren't put up with a vote.

Isn't it quite telling that you refuse to differentiate between vandals who pull down a statue to destroy it- and a community which decides to remove a statue from a public space.

 

[Coyote]

The pussies are the ones that demand they come down. It hurts their feelings to see something they don't like.

That's why this whole Taliban Across America thing is guaranteed not to stop with Confederate monuments.

The real resentment here doesn't concern slavery. The real and poisonous resentment comes from the descendants of the immigrants who arrived when the Civil War was safely over.

The monumental achievements of the founding stock Americans--taming a continent and constructing a great nation on it, successfully ridding itself at enormous cost of the slavery scourge they inherited at the birth of the nation, devising a political and economic and social system so unique, so brilliant, and so advanced, no corner of the world has been untouched by emulation--these achievements are regarded with hatred and resentment by a particular kind of immigrant who came later. So the whole thing--at least any mention of the WASPs who created it-- must be torn down.

They did not inherit slavery, they brought it with them.

 

[Syriusly]

I don't know about you, but seceding from their state strikes me as a fairly convincing protest. One that likely wouldn't get very far these days.

Of course they did *I* posted the links to their stories, but all of them (except for W Virginia) still fought to protect their homes from Union hordes.

Which once again demonstrates that the American Civil War was NOT ALL about slavery, hence the statues are not either ALL about slavery.

I'm sorry, but I've already referenced quite a lot of highly credible content in this thread that shows the Civil War was all about the South, the Confederates, successfully seceding from the United States and that the Confederacy was "all about" slavery. I 'm not going to repost or restate all that stuff.

People keep trying to Sanitize the Civil War by separating out the issue of slavery and repackaging it as a state's rights conflict where slavery played only a minor roll.

This just makes you a liar.

Some communities are caving into a national campaign of pressure where if the local community does not take these statues down, the violence will escalate even more until they capitulate.

It would be one thing if the community voted to take these down without the entire nation putting pressure on them. In fact, if those communities really thought they should not be displayed, they would have quietly removed them and no one would have noticed.

Now it's a national blackmail campaign by the progressive pussies who are butthurt over some iron, copper, and stone, so they wish to censor those who had no problem with their existence to begin.

Apparently Durham NC didn't act quickly enough for the vandals.

If these statues were so much of a problem, why haven't they been taken down during the almost 100 years someone them have been up?

Yes. We have already seen that if a community does not act as swiftly as the butthurt Antifa crowd wishes of them, they will escalate the violence and start tearing down these statues. Not much of a council vote in that instance, is there?

The vandals don't care if there is a vote or not. Since there wasn't a vote in Durham, NC, the statue should be put back up and those cowards made to watch.

If Durham wants to put the statue back up, i would support that decision.

And if Durham decides to keep it down- I would support that decision also.

The local community should decide- not a bunch of right wing racists.

The community should not be under threat of violence by a bunch of left wing racists.

The community should not be under the threat of violence by a bunch of right wing racists

 

[Syriusly]

Don't have the guts to what? Respond to your pansy posts on USMB?

To tear down a statue when I have repeatedly said I am against mobs tearing down a statue?

LOL- what a pissy little snowflake you are.

I'm not the one demanding statues come down because I get my feelings hurt by looking at it. You want them down and support the pussies that approve of it.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point- along with being able to chew your food and walk.

I haven't once demanded that any statues come down.

You pussies just are pissed because some communities have decided to no longer honor your heroes.

This just makes you a liar.

Point out my lie- if you aren't a typical contard cowardly pussy.

Point out where you told the truth - if you aren't the typical NL leftwing retard.

Point out my lie- if you aren't a typical racist cowardly pussy

 

[Syriusly]

The pussies are the ones that demand they come down. It hurts their feelings to see something they don't like.

That's why this whole Taliban Across America thing is guaranteed not to stop with Confederate monuments.

The real resentment here doesn't concern slavery. The real and poisonous resentment comes from the descendants of the immigrants who arrived when the Civil War was safely over.

The monumental achievements of the founding stock Americans--taming a continent and constructing a great nation on it, successfully ridding itself at enormous cost of the slavery scourge they inherited at the birth of the nation, devising a political and economic and social system so unique, so brilliant, and so advanced, no corner of the world has been untouched by emulation--these achievements are regarded with hatred and resentment by a particular kind of immigrant who came later. So the whole thing--at least any mention of the WASPs who created it-- must be torn down.

Another contard who can't tell the difference between a monument celebrating rebels against the United States- and monuments that celebrate the United States.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Lol, could you at least give the post number?

Sure; absolutely:

• Post 14

I did not make a claim that anyone is co-opting the meaning of the Civil War.

I am saying that a handful of quotes from people with an agenda at the time proves nothing other than that a few people had an agenda.

Post 38

The Confederacies laws on slavery prove nothing regarding racism when not all slaves were black and not all slave owners were white.

You are conflating two different issues.

Post 241

1. A person can think his race is superior to another without hating the other race. Lincoln thought that whites were superior to blacks and he certainly did not hate blacks as a race.

2. No subsistence farmer in the South ever thought he was going to own a slave. That is like saying that a mimimum wage fry cook has dreams about owning a Bentley. No, it does not happen, lol.

3. Heterosis is good for breeding and that was known then as well, so that was all slave owner rationale for keeping the races separated and had little basis in reality.

4. None of those posts addressed my specific points that Lincoln was willing to protect slavery by law and amendment, the South had large populations and famous leaders that opposed secession, but that negates the "slavery caused it" argument as, according to you, they all dreamed of one day owning a slave even if they didnt own one at the time.

5. None of those posts address why the South seceded in three different group, triggered by different events; A) Lincolns election without carrying a single Southern state, B) Texas leaving after the passage of the Morill Tariff, and C) Virginia, Tennessee and North Carolina leaving only after Lincoln took up extra-Constitutional powers by ordering the states to call up their militias to invade the Southern states.

6. None of these posts address why the North tolerated slavery all the way through the Civil War if that war was SOLELY about slavery, nor why Lincoln waited for two years to issue the Emancipation Proclamation.

The only thing that answers these questions that THE CIVIL WAR WAS NOT JUST ABOUT SLAVERY!

IT, like all reality, was produced by a set of complex factors and reasons, all of which differed from one individual to the next.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I grew up in Maryland - kind of an "in between" state..

I've lived in Maryland for nearly 50 years.
Maryland was not 'in between'. It was a southern state coopted by the north because of its proximity to DC.
The fascist academics on the U of MD campus removed the state song's melody from the campus chapel's clock chimes because some democrat fascist pointed out that the lyrics, written in 1847 or so, made reference to the 'tyranny of the north'.
Marylanders during the Civil War used the red and white Crossland portion of the state flag as their confederate battle flag.
If Maryland Democrat fascists want to be taken seriously then they need to be consistent and remove all vestiges of red and white from the campus and its sports teams, too. Good luck with that. Too much money at risk for the billion dollar sports industry there that Curley Byrd generated in the 1940's. Oh, BTW, the Democrat Nazis took Byrd's name off of the football stadium a couple of years back because he favored 'separate but equal' back in the 1950's. This was in spite of the tons of money he directed towards Maryland's black universities.

Poor Rosha

Any time anyone suggest doing anything she doesn't approve of- they are 'fascists' or Nazi's.

How did you draw that conclusion? I provide facts and perspective. Now it's up to you to back up your insult.
Or are you just trolling because you can't rebut?

You provided your snowflake whines and name calling about those who you disagree with.

Which is pretty much par for your posts.

I made a very detailed and pointed post and all you have is disparagement. That is typical for an empirically defeated lefty troll.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No. The differences are already present. Insisting that people "stand up and be counted" merely tells us the extent of them. Knowing that, along with other things, helps inform us of how we might proceed and deal with the extant differences.

Sure there are racial differences, as there are gender differences, religious differences and so on.

But none of that outweighs what binds us together as civic nationalists, and American citizens.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I made a very detailed and pointed post and all you have is disparagement. That is typical for an empirically defeated lefty troll.

Um, who do you think you are talking to?

Seriously?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I made a very detailed and pointed post and all you have is disparagement. That is typical for an empirically defeated lefty troll.

Um, who do you think you are talking to?

Seriously?

Yeah, I know, but I thought I'd give her one more chance at discussion.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The monumental achievements of the founding stock Americans--taming a continent and constructing a great nation on it, successfully ridding itself at enormous cost of the slavery scourge they inherited at the birth of the nation, ....

They did not inherit slavery, they brought it with them.

Which colonists came here slaves in tow?

To my knowledge almost all of them that eventually owned slaves bought them once they got here.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yeah, I know, but I thought I'd give her one more chance at discussion.

so, you like pounding your head against a brick wall?

Interesting.

 

[Conservative65]

I'm not the one demanding statues come down because I get my feelings hurt by looking at it. You want them down and support the pussies that approve of it.

Reading comprehension is not your strong point- along with being able to chew your food and walk.

I haven't once demanded that any statues come down.

You pussies just are pissed because some communities have decided to no longer honor your heroes.

This just makes you a liar.

Point out my lie- if you aren't a typical contard cowardly pussy.

That anyone is pissed because communities don't want to support my heros.

First lie. They are not My heroes.
Second lie. Some communities are not deciding this on their own, but are being threatened with violence.
Biggest lie. That this is anything other than censoring free speech.

Since I was responding to a post by someone else- why do you believe you are one of the cowardly pussies I was speaking about?

Note you haven't provided a single quote of mine that is a lie- just your own snowflake hurt feelings.

Once again- my position- which you snowflakes are so offended about:

1. All vandalism and violence is wrong- I am fine with vandals being arrested, and that murderers like the driver in Charlottesville was arrested.
2. Local communities should make their own decisions on which monuments to have.
3. That only a total idiot would think that removing a statue of Robert E. Lee is 'censoring free speech'

I don't. It's called an open forum and you don't have to be responding to me for me to post. Are you really that retarded?

So symbols can't be considered part of free speech? The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

 

[Syriusly]

I grew up in Maryland - kind of an "in between" state..

I've lived in Maryland for nearly 50 years.
Maryland was not 'in between'. It was a southern state coopted by the north because of its proximity to DC.
The fascist academics on the U of MD campus removed the state song's melody from the campus chapel's clock chimes because some democrat fascist pointed out that the lyrics, written in 1847 or so, made reference to the 'tyranny of the north'.
Marylanders during the Civil War used the red and white Crossland portion of the state flag as their confederate battle flag.
If Maryland Democrat fascists want to be taken seriously then they need to be consistent and remove all vestiges of red and white from the campus and its sports teams, too. Good luck with that. Too much money at risk for the billion dollar sports industry there that Curley Byrd generated in the 1940's. Oh, BTW, the Democrat Nazis took Byrd's name off of the football stadium a couple of years back because he favored 'separate but equal' back in the 1950's. This was in spite of the tons of money he directed towards Maryland's black universities.

Poor Rosha

Any time anyone suggest doing anything she doesn't approve of- they are 'fascists' or Nazi's.

How did you draw that conclusion? I provide facts and perspective. Now it's up to you to back up your insult.
Or are you just trolling because you can't rebut?

You provided your snowflake whines and name calling about those who you disagree with.

Which is pretty much par for your posts.

I made a very detailed and pointed post and all you have is disparagement. That is typical for an empirically defeated lefty troll.

You posted a right wing strident whine about how everyone you disagree with is of course a fascist or a nazi.

Even though of course- the actual Nazi's were protesting exactly what you are protesting.

 

[Conservative65]

The pussies are the ones that demand they come down. It hurts their feelings to see something they don't like.

That's why this whole Taliban Across America thing is guaranteed not to stop with Confederate monuments.

The real resentment here doesn't concern slavery. The real and poisonous resentment comes from the descendants of the immigrants who arrived when the Civil War was safely over.

The monumental achievements of the founding stock Americans--taming a continent and constructing a great nation on it, successfully ridding itself at enormous cost of the slavery scourge they inherited at the birth of the nation, devising a political and economic and social system so unique, so brilliant, and so advanced, no corner of the world has been untouched by emulation--these achievements are regarded with hatred and resentment by a particular kind of immigrant who came later. So the whole thing--at least any mention of the WASPs who created it-- must be torn down.

Another contard who can't tell the difference between a monument celebrating rebels against the United States- and monuments that celebrate the United States.

The states that seceded only wanted to leave. They're only considered rebels by those that wouldn't allow them to do so. Do you consider someone leaving when you don't want them to go as a rebel?

 

[Syriusly]

Reading comprehension is not your strong point- along with being able to chew your food and walk.

I haven't once demanded that any statues come down.

You pussies just are pissed because some communities have decided to no longer honor your heroes.

This just makes you a liar.

Point out my lie- if you aren't a typical contard cowardly pussy.

That anyone is pissed because communities don't want to support my heros.

First lie. They are not My heroes.
Second lie. Some communities are not deciding this on their own, but are being threatened with violence.
Biggest lie. That this is anything other than censoring free speech.

Since I was responding to a post by someone else- why do you believe you are one of the cowardly pussies I was speaking about?

Note you haven't provided a single quote of mine that is a lie- just your own snowflake hurt feelings.

Once again- my position- which you snowflakes are so offended about:

1. All vandalism and violence is wrong- I am fine with vandals being arrested, and that murderers like the driver in Charlottesville was arrested.
2. Local communities should make their own decisions on which monuments to have.
3. That only a total idiot would think that removing a statue of Robert E. Lee is 'censoring free speech'

So symbols can't be considered part of free speech? The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

Whose free speech is being censored by the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue?

Not the people who erected the statue. They are dead- and have no 'free speech rights'

Certainly a statue or any symbol can be someone's free speech- but it has to be a someone- not a something.