Confirmation Bias; Why Atheists cant see the Evidence for God

[JimBowie1958]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You don't realize that what makes America great is that we took god and put him out of our government. Bye Bye Lord.

Bullshit, He is mentioned in all our nations founding documents, idiot.

Perhaps... But you'll notice that the reference is always the very generic "God" and never "Jesus", "Buddha", "The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran", or any other reference that specifically names a particular god or religion.

To do otherwise would be to establish a state religion, something they were carefully trying to avoid

Americans are fairly comfortable with "God", as long as He/She/It remains generic. If you want to start some serious squirming in a religious conversation at a diverse party or on a messageboard, ask people to name their god.

Good point. Most people are not comfortable discussing specifics because it might betray their ignorance.

I suspect that 80% of Christians have erroneous concepts of what the Trinity is, but 'God' is enough for what is required.

You don't even need to read the bible or go to church. The only test is a true or false test and it is 1 question.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and died on the cross for your sins?

a. No or Fales

b. Yes or True

c. Agnostic (not sure)

d. Agnostic Atheist (knows Jesus and Mohammad are fake but there could be a god somewhere)

e. Atheist (Sure there is no god)

The right answer is D but Christians would prefer you not ask any questions, take their word for it and answer B.

And yet again you are totally ass backwards on this. Through my whole life it has been Atheists who refuse to discuss in their classes why they are atheists and yet have the most strident rhetoric.

Here is a question that I have never had answered, though I must give de Torohead some credit for trying;

Since we know that time had to begin at some point, what did it come from? It had to come from something that is not part of the flow of time, and this is called an eternal object.

This object must be infinite, as Cantor suggested, the infinity of infinities is the set of all sets, and this would include everything that exists directly in our universe, from light to energy, to potential time, etc.

And so it seems reasonable to suppose with good reason that the Creator is intelligent. This is essentially what Plato and Aristotle said thousands of years ago, more or less. And it is also why monotheism is qualitatively different from polytheism, a difference you do not grasp and why you look like a fool when you keep ignoring it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Folks interested in good Christian apologetics should avoid JimBowie1958.

 

[sealybobo]

You don't realize that what makes America great is that we took god and put him out of our government. Bye Bye Lord.

Bullshit, He is mentioned in all our nations founding documents, idiot.

Perhaps... But you'll notice that the reference is always the very generic "God" and never "Jesus", "Buddha", "The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran", or any other reference that specifically names a particular god or religion.

To do otherwise would be to establish a state religion, something they were carefully trying to avoid

Americans are fairly comfortable with "God", as long as He/She/It remains generic. If you want to start some serious squirming in a religious conversation at a diverse party or on a messageboard, ask people to name their god.

Good point. Most people are not comfortable discussing specifics because it might betray their ignorance.

I suspect that 80% of Christians have erroneous concepts of what the Trinity is, but 'God' is enough for what is required.

You don't even need to read the bible or go to church. The only test is a true or false test and it is 1 question.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and died on the cross for your sins?

a. No or Fales

b. Yes or True

c. Agnostic (not sure)

d. Agnostic Atheist (knows Jesus and Mohammad are fake but there could be a god somewhere)

e. Atheist (Sure there is no god)

The right answer is D but Christians would prefer you not ask any questions, take their word for it and answer B.

And yet again you are totally ass backwards on this. Through my whole life it has been Atheists who refuse to discuss in their classes why they are atheists and yet have the most strident rhetoric.

Here is a question that I have never had answered, though I must give de Torohead some credit for trying;

Since we know that time had to begin at some point, what did it come from? It had to come from something that is not part of the flow of time, and this is called an eternal object.

This object must be infinite, as Cantor suggested, the infinity of infinities is the set of all sets, and this would include everything that exists directly in our universe, from light to energy, to potential time, etc.

And so it seems reasonable to suppose with good reason that the Creator is intelligent. This is essentially what Plato and Aristotle said thousands of years ago, more or less. And it is also why monotheism is qualitatively different from polytheism, a difference you do not grasp and why you look like a fool when you keep ignoring it.

The First Cause Argument, or Cosmological Argument [2], is internally contradictory and raises the following questions: Who or what created god?, Why should a hypothetical ‘cause’ have any of the common attributes of a god?, Why is the ‘cause’ a specific god?, Why can’t the universe be causeless too? and, most importantly, Why rule out all other possible explanations?

It is fundamentally a ‘god of the gaps’ approach. Our current lack of understanding concerning the Universe’s origins does not automatically mean ‘god’ holds any explanatory value. Metaphysical and theistic speculation are not immediately justified or correct simply because we lack a comprehensive scientific model. Uncertainty is the most valid position and one can honestly say “We just don’t know yet”.

The argument ignores the fact that our everyday understanding of causality has been arrived at via a posteriori inductive reasoning – which means it might not apply to everything. Time, for instance, appears to have begun with the Big Bang, so there might not have been any ’cause’ for the Universe to be an ‘effect’ of since there was probably no time for a ’cause’ to exist in. Applying concepts like time and causality to the Big Bang might be comparable to asking “What is north of the North Pole?” – ultimately nonsensical and incoherent. Furthermore, even if causality could be established it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any particular one, as the properties and nature of the ’cause’ could forever remain a mystery or be naturalistic.

In fact, something can come from nothing and we are able to observe it in the form of virtual particles and quantum vacuum fluctuations. They explain why the early universe lacked uniformity and provided the seeds for the emergence of structure [2][3]. These quantum phenomena are also causeless in the sense that they are objectively and irreducibly random, a fact confirmed by tests of non-local realism and Bell’s Theorem.

Note 1: Theists often state “God is outside of time”. This claim does not actually make their speculation correct. Instead, it brings with it a whole host of problems and may be immediately dismissed as being without basis and a type fallacy known as special pleading.

 

[sealybobo]

And as far as the creator being intelligent.

The universe is extremely hostile to life. Extinction level events have nearly eliminated complex life on Earth on five separate occasions. Of all the species that have ever lived 99.9% are now extinct. Furthermore, normal matter like stars and planets occupy less than 0.0000000000000000000042 percent of the observable universe. Life constitutes an even smaller fraction of that matter again. If the universe is fine-tuned for anything it is for the creation of black holes [2] and empty space.

There is nothing to suggest that human life, our planet or our universe are uniquely privileged nor intended. On the contrary, the sheer scale of the universe in both space and time and our understanding of its development indicate we are non-central to the scheme of things; mere products of chance, physical laws and evolution. To believe otherwise amounts to an argument from incredulity and a hubris mix of anthropocentrism and god of the gaps thinking.

The conditions that we observe, namely, those around our Sun and on Earth, simply seem fine-tuned to us because we evolved to suit them. We cannot prove that all other possible forms of life would be infeasible with a different set of conditions or constants because the only universe that we can observe is the one we occupy. Indeed, modelling [2] suggests star formation (a necessary precursor to our form of biology) may be viable under a number of different universal conditions.

Without actual proof of creation, naturalistic explanations for the properties of this universe cannot be wholly ruled out. It is possible an infinity of universes exist, all with different conditions and forms of life. The fact that our particular universe has the physical constants we observe may be no more to the point than the fact a hand of cards, dealt from a shuffled deck, is the one a hypothetical player holds. Though the chances of any one universe being hospitable to life might be low, the conditional probability of a form of life observing a set of constants suitable to it is exactly unity. That is to say, every possible universe would ‘appear’ fine-tuned to the form of life it harbors, while all those inhospitable universes would never be observed by life at all.

 

[sealybobo]

Maybe instead of falling back on god you guys might want to consider other possible explanations. Fine-tuned Universe - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

 

[dblack]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

 

[dblack]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

 

[sealybobo]

Theists often fail to adequately apportion blame when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be responsible for inflicting if it existed. See also: Confirmation bias, Cherry Picking.

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

The mind is also the software that runs a dolphins or fish or spiders brain. Cat, mouse, rat, cochroach, etc.

So they aren't physical either?

And no this isn't a great leap, but it is a leap. It is a leap a lot of humans make without much evidence.

My dad does it every time I tell him there is no god. He says there must be. How can I have two arms, two eyes, the chicken to lay the egg, the cow to give the milk and butter, the water to drink, the air to breath, fire to keep warm, etc. There must be a god.

Science says you are wrong dad. Sorry.

I heard the other day humans are a way for the universe to understand itself.

Do you realize the earth is a living thing?

There is no god people. Not the way we define god. If something created us it is so big we can't even see it. And trust me, it doesn't give a rats ass about you. There is no heaven. That's all just wishful thinking. Better to appreciate the time you have here because when it's over, so are you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It is hilarious to watch the news and see a President who claims the border is sealed and secure against ISIS and yet unaccompanied children can get across it. The children just don't count somehow to support the view that the border is NOT secure. The feds deny that radical Islamicist groups are the primary source for terrorism, and so a violent radical Jihadist who shot a bunch of people at Fort Hood screaming 'Allah Akbar!' and who recently asked ISIS to let him be an honorary citizen of the Caliphate was not a terrorist, and the shooting just 'work place violence'.

But those are just a few glaring examples of confirmation bias, a thing where people insist on putting what they perceive into nice neat little pigeon holes defined by an ideology or inflexible philosophy.

There is an old 16th century story of three blind men who are feeling parts of an elephant, an animal that they have never seen and have no idea exists, and one feels the leg and says it is a tree, the other feels the trunk and says it is a vine, another feels the belly and says there is a bolder above him. When told that it is all one great big huge animal they laugh and say the narrator is deluded.

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

Accepting something on faith does not demonstrate an open mind just one willing to follow the whims and beliefs of others.

Just because we may not know the origin of something does not necessarily mean a supreme being is responsible. it could be that we are simply incapable of understanding it given out limited sensory and cognitive abilities..

I consider myself an agnostic with atheist leanings but if I saw proof with my own eyes that there was a supreme being I would be compelled to believe. Some of you are willing to believe without such proof but I am not wired that way

Faith alone is sufficient to please God, otherwise the stupid would have no chance for salvation. But yes, these are people who accept their faith in a child's way, trusting those in authority around them.

But the evidence, reason and life experiences are there to lead one to believe, and if it is not so, and you honestly have found no evidence to believe in God, God does not call you to fake having faith.

For me, the strongest evidence has been the lives of believers compared to nonbelievers of similar background, the believers over all have fewer brushes with the law, fewer divorces, fewer addictions to drugs, etc. In fact AA has at its core values a belief and reliance on God that WORKS to help people beat their addiction. Compared to secular organizations, AA is way more effective in ending the plague of alcoholism in these peoples lives.

I heard a man once say that he has not seen Jesus turn water into wine, but he has seen Him act in peoples lives and turn wine into paid bills, a happy family and a peaceful contentment with life that they had never had before. I knew exactly what he meant, but my problem wasn't alcohol, and I don't want to discuss it, but yes, the power of faith is incredible, even when I didn't want it to happen to me.

Once I found a desire to know the Truth of what is Reality in my autistic obsessive way, I dug and dug and dug into the subject and I found much evidence of God's existence that previously I had attributed to circumstance or evolution. The funniest thing is to look at the design in living cells and say that it was complete chance that made them that way. Evolution was the tool God used, but He did not directly intervene. He made it the way He knew would work and let it grow on its own accord.

Using evolution to explain away the obvious design in the universe is like saying you cannot see the maker who is behind the chisel. Evolution is the chisel, but God's Hand guides it.

The fact that time must have had a beginning, that any eternal object responsible for the universe had to be infinite and have intelligence (set of all possible sets) and daily life with Christians and atheist in contrast....I have faith as much due to the absence of it in some as the presence of it in others.

But you have to make your own choices, obviously, and what may seem obvious to me might seem bewildering to a person who does not have those same experiences. Just be honest with yourself, treat the people in your life with respect/honesty/integrity and keep an open mind and watchful eye for God to get your attention,

I doubt he will fail you.

I don't buy your list of lifestyle choices as proof that god exists.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't realize that what makes America great is that we took god and put him out of our government. Bye Bye Lord.

Bullshit, He is mentioned in all our nations founding documents, idiot.

Perhaps... But you'll notice that the reference is always the very generic "God" and never "Jesus", "Buddha", "The God of Abraham as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran", or any other reference that specifically names a particular god or religion.

To do otherwise would be to establish a state religion, something they were carefully trying to avoid

Americans are fairly comfortable with "God", as long as He/She/It remains generic. If you want to start some serious squirming in a religious conversation at a diverse party or on a messageboard, ask people to name their god.

Good point. Most people are not comfortable discussing specifics because it might betray their ignorance.

I suspect that 80% of Christians have erroneous concepts of what the Trinity is, but 'God' is enough for what is required.

You don't even need to read the bible or go to church. The only test is a true or false test and it is 1 question.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is your lord and savior and died on the cross for your sins?

a. No or Fales

b. Yes or True

c. Agnostic (not sure)

d. Agnostic Atheist (knows Jesus and Mohammad are fake but there could be a god somewhere)

e. Atheist (Sure there is no god)

The right answer is D but Christians would prefer you not ask any questions, take their word for it and answer B.

Agnostic does not mean one is not sure if god exists.


Search Results
ag·nos·tic
agˈnästik/
noun
noun: agnostic; plural noun: agnostics
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

 

[dblack]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

The mind is also the software that runs a dolphins or fish or spiders brain. Cat, mouse, rat, cochroach, etc.

So they aren't physical either?

To the extent that they represent a consciousness, no.

And no this isn't a great leap, but it is a leap. It is a leap a lot of humans make without much evidence.

My dad does it every time I tell him there is no god. He says there must be. How can I have two arms, two eyes, the chicken to lay the egg, the cow to give the milk and butter, the water to drink, the air to breath, fire to keep warm, etc. There must be a god.

Science says you are wrong dad. Sorry.

I heard the other day humans are a way for the universe to understand itself.

Do you realize the earth is a living thing?

There is no god people. Not the way we define god. If something created us it is so big we can't even see it. And trust me, it doesn't give a rats ass about you. There is no heaven. That's all just wishful thinking. Better to appreciate the time you have here because when it's over, so are you.

Yeah. I get all that. But still, gods are a ubiquitous phenomenon in human society. I don't think that's merely coincidental. My current "theory" is that god is the communal prerequisite for the human mind. Gods are, in a very real sense, the 'pack' that humans evolve into.

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

The mind is also the software that runs a dolphins or fish or spiders brain. Cat, mouse, rat, cochroach, etc.

So they aren't physical either?

To the extent that they represent a consciousness, no.

And no this isn't a great leap, but it is a leap. It is a leap a lot of humans make without much evidence.

My dad does it every time I tell him there is no god. He says there must be. How can I have two arms, two eyes, the chicken to lay the egg, the cow to give the milk and butter, the water to drink, the air to breath, fire to keep warm, etc. There must be a god.

Science says you are wrong dad. Sorry.

I heard the other day humans are a way for the universe to understand itself.

Do you realize the earth is a living thing?

There is no god people. Not the way we define god. If something created us it is so big we can't even see it. And trust me, it doesn't give a rats ass about you. There is no heaven. That's all just wishful thinking. Better to appreciate the time you have here because when it's over, so are you.

Yeah. I get all that. But still, gods are a ubiquitous phenomenon in human society. I don't think that's merely coincidental. My current "theory" is that god is the communal prerequisite for the human mind. Gods are, in a very real sense, the 'pack' that humans evolve into.

He is? Ubiquitous meaning present, appearing, or found everywhere.

First of all, he is not here with me right now. You would have to believe in god to believe that he is actually here with me right now. I don't believe in a god, so he isn't present with me right now.

Appearing? Where has god appeared? Prove it.

Found everywhere? I hear large numbers of people in China and Russia aren't theists. Theists say us atheists have killed more people than theists have. Apparently god was either present and stood by and did nothing or was not present.

Basically you are making the boss argument. Because most people believe and because we have always believed as far back as we can see, that is his reason to believe. Sorry, not enough to convince an atheist.

 

[dblack]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

The mind is also the software that runs a dolphins or fish or spiders brain. Cat, mouse, rat, cochroach, etc.

So they aren't physical either?

To the extent that they represent a consciousness, no.

And no this isn't a great leap, but it is a leap. It is a leap a lot of humans make without much evidence.

My dad does it every time I tell him there is no god. He says there must be. How can I have two arms, two eyes, the chicken to lay the egg, the cow to give the milk and butter, the water to drink, the air to breath, fire to keep warm, etc. There must be a god.

Science says you are wrong dad. Sorry.

I heard the other day humans are a way for the universe to understand itself.

Do you realize the earth is a living thing?

There is no god people. Not the way we define god. If something created us it is so big we can't even see it. And trust me, it doesn't give a rats ass about you. There is no heaven. That's all just wishful thinking. Better to appreciate the time you have here because when it's over, so are you.

Yeah. I get all that. But still, gods are a ubiquitous phenomenon in human society. I don't think that's merely coincidental. My current "theory" is that god is the communal prerequisite for the human mind. Gods are, in a very real sense, the 'pack' that humans evolve into.

He is? Ubiquitous meaning present, appearing, or found everywhere.

First of all, he is not here with me right now. You would have to believe in god to believe that he is actually here with me right now. I don't believe in a god, so he isn't present with me right now.

Appearing? Where has god appeared? Prove it.

Found everywhere? I hear large numbers of people in China and Russia aren't theists. Theists say us atheists have killed more people than theists have. Apparently god was either present and stood by and did nothing or was not present.

Basically you are making the boss argument. Because most people believe and because we have always believed as far back as we can see, that is his reason to believe. Sorry, not enough to convince an atheist.

Not really. I'm not saying there is any 'reason' to believe.

To get what I'm suggesting, think of a networked, distributed software application. To the extent that clients install and run that software, it exists, as a distributed entity across whatever network connects its 'believers'. In my view gods are distributed entities, existing in the minds of believers. To the extent that they represent a consistent ethos and agenda, they have will that is enacted by believers.

 

[sealybobo]

You cannot show evidence to someone who refuses to accept even the remote possibility of the thing claimed. No mater how complex a life form maybe, like the human cell, and no matter what Darwin knew about the complexity of the cell and the impact were it overly complex, the atheist will insist it is all the product of unguided chance. No matter how finely tuned the universe the atheist will insist that it proves nothing and it isn't so finely tuned anyway.

So don't pitch your argument to persuade an atheist of anything. Speak to other theists or to the lurkers who just read and move on. The atheist is a fringe element cultist who has closed his mind long ago.

A particular standard of evidence is required to prove any claim. This ‘standard’ is adjusted depending upon the nature of the claim. Since god’s existence is an extraordinary claim, perhaps the most extraordinary claim, proving it requires equally extraordinary evidence.

I am not responding to all your crap, but I will respond to this one as the epitome of your irrationality.

No, extraordinary claims do NOT demand extraordinary evidence. They require exactly the SAME evidence as any other proposition. This demand for extraordinary evidence is the very example of what confirmation bias is and how it works, duh.

Ok, show me any good evidence a god exists. Evidence a scientist would accept. If you can't, piss off.

Lol, you are an idiot.

Science CANNOT prove anything not of the natural world, so your whole claim to want evidence is a shallow hypocrisy of posturing for results you have deliberately set up to fail.

Evidence used in criminal trials, civil courts, the kind of evidence that inform our choices we all have to make every single day is not 100% scientific. If you weren't such a gibbering fool you would know that.

There is a HUGE accumulation of historical, circumstantial, and eye witness events that prove God exists, and you look a total jack ass ignoring it all.

Really? Do you believe god talked to Mohammad or Joseph Smith and told them all the things they say he told them?

So you are an atheist too. You just happen to believe in one more god than I do.

When you realize your religion is just as made up as all the other religions, come talk to me.

No, you display your ignorance yet again.

I reject polytheistic gods for reasons you do not understand, and accept the Creator for reasons in stark contrast to you ignotheism.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

In your bigoted opinion, perhaps.

Evidence is found in our daily lives and is as much justification for faith as any mathematical theorem.

That's your problem. Those things you think are god are not. When you see a beautiful sunset you think, "there must be a god". That sunset is not proof of god.

When people do good things that is not god. When people do bad that is not the devil.

Do you believe in the devil? The literal one or have you bastardized that concept too in order for it to make sense in your mind? I use to do the same thing. I tried to make sense of the lies and figure out the true meaning but then it dawned on me. Maybe the entire thing is made up???

Have you considered that 'made up' doesn't necessarily mean 'not real'?

Explain.

I've done a lot of reading on the nature of consciousness - the mind, etc. The theories that make the most sense to me characterize the human mind as, essentially, software that runs in a brain. Once you accept that core concept, that what we 'really' are isn't physical, but rather a specifically organized system of information, it's not a great leap to see gods as distributed versions of the same kind of entity. In fact, I take seriously the idea that gods are, in fact, prerequisites for human minds - inasmuch as they represent the communal consciousness that informs individual identity.

The mind is also the software that runs a dolphins or fish or spiders brain. Cat, mouse, rat, cochroach, etc.

So they aren't physical either?

To the extent that they represent a consciousness, no.

And no this isn't a great leap, but it is a leap. It is a leap a lot of humans make without much evidence.

My dad does it every time I tell him there is no god. He says there must be. How can I have two arms, two eyes, the chicken to lay the egg, the cow to give the milk and butter, the water to drink, the air to breath, fire to keep warm, etc. There must be a god.

Science says you are wrong dad. Sorry.

I heard the other day humans are a way for the universe to understand itself.

Do you realize the earth is a living thing?

There is no god people. Not the way we define god. If something created us it is so big we can't even see it. And trust me, it doesn't give a rats ass about you. There is no heaven. That's all just wishful thinking. Better to appreciate the time you have here because when it's over, so are you.

Yeah. I get all that. But still, gods are a ubiquitous phenomenon in human society. I don't think that's merely coincidental. My current "theory" is that god is the communal prerequisite for the human mind. Gods are, in a very real sense, the 'pack' that humans evolve into.

He is? Ubiquitous meaning present, appearing, or found everywhere.

First of all, he is not here with me right now. You would have to believe in god to believe that he is actually here with me right now. I don't believe in a god, so he isn't present with me right now.

Appearing? Where has god appeared? Prove it.

Found everywhere? I hear large numbers of people in China and Russia aren't theists. Theists say us atheists have killed more people than theists have. Apparently god was either present and stood by and did nothing or was not present.

Basically you are making the boss argument. Because most people believe and because we have always believed as far back as we can see, that is his reason to believe. Sorry, not enough to convince an atheist.

Not really. I'm not saying there is any 'reason' to believe.

To get what I'm suggesting, think of a networked, distributed software application. To the extent that clients install and run that software, it exists, as a distributed entity across whatever network connects its 'believers'. In my view gods are distributed entities, existing in the minds of believers. To the extent that they represent a consistent ethos and agenda, they have will that is enacted by believers.

And I can't wait till we find the answers to all your questions if we ever do. But until we do, to claim it is a god, donate 10% of your earnings to a church, tell people they are going to hell if they don't believe, go around telling people your theories, killing people for not converting as muslims do, or telling people characters named Jesus Moses, Noah and Adam did impossible things, etc.

Our very uneducated ancient primitive unevolved ancestors came up with god. We are much smarter now yet too many of us continue to cling to this god concept. Stop it.

PS. We were talking earlier about theists shoving their god in our faces and us atheists basically leave others alone. A theist denied they do it. Well guess what? I just got a pamphlet on my car. Unlock Revelation. Every Eye will see him.

What will you get if you go to their bible camps?

1. How can I find peace and be sure of eternal life?
2. What really happens after death?
3. What will happen before the end of the world?
4. What role does the USA play in bible prophecy?
5. Truth about the rapture
6 Are heaven and hell real?

Dr. Julie Hayek is the speaker. A doctor of what?

Anyways, I'm going to start printing atheist material and when I see a kid I'm going to give it to him or her and fuck what his parents think. I don't know if it is god but something is telling me to spread the truth or at least expose the lies.