Confirmation Bias; Why Atheists cant see the Evidence for God

[Delta4Embassy]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

 

[guno]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

All made possible by Christ insanity

 

[ricechickie]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

Why do you think there had to be a Creator?

 

[guno]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

All made possible by Christ insanity

Oh look !! rightwing kooks

 

[guno]

Why the heck are some Christians so damn hung up about what other people believe?
Are they going to go back to the good old days and torture people to save their souls.
When someone tells me they're an atheist, I reply, "Gezuntite!".

Why the heck are some Christians so damn hung up about what other people believe?

because the need validation of their beliefs

 

[Hollie]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

That’s a terribly inept analogy. You make many false assumptions. Despite your willingness to insert your dogma as blanket "evidence" as to your religious beliefs, you do realize that one can interpret existence as not having a supernatural cause. The fact is, those who invented gawds before the invention of your gawds made the same empty claims as you now do.

To the back of the line for you and your angry gawds.

 

[dblack]

We're not going to really understand anything about gods and religion until we study them with the same kind of diligence and rigor we've applied to other natural phenomena.

 

[Darlene]

How about this:
we leave all religious affairs off of a 'political' website.
Church and State are divided, remember?

 

[dblack]

How about this:
we leave all religious affairs off of a 'political' website.
Church and State are divided, remember?

Or, even better. People who don't want to discuss religion and ethics can stay the fuck out of a forum entitled "Religion and Ethics".

 

[Darlene]

How about this:
we leave all religious affairs off of a 'political' website.
Church and State are divided, remember?

Or, even better. People who don't want to discuss religion and ethics can stay the fuck out of a forum entitled "Religion and Ethics".

Good point.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

Why do you think there had to be a Creator?

Because of the nature of eternal objects. The Creative Force that 'decided' to bring the universe into existence is intelligent, probably, but even if that is not established, the Creative Force is certainly infinite and most of the infinite things about Him/It are outside the flow of time, an Eternal Creative Force. He doesn't make decisions within that non-time environment, it is a steady and constant expression of predetermined will that only acts on realized conditions being set to act when the criteria is met. That decision making process is necessary, IMO, and establishes the Creative Force as a Creator. If their is no intelligence then their is no 'decision' outside the flow of time to create the universe or its time-space equivalent that preceded it. Since time cannot be eternal, there is not room for random events to kick things off as their is no time dimension to allow for random events.

So say the criteria for creating a new universe is A, B and W; it isn't considered and evaluated as a criteria, it has already been decided beforehand. The Creative Force simply acts at that moment the criteria are met, whether that is purely physical, moral or some combination of those factors and things we do not yet even comprehend exist. When A is true, B is true and W is false, BINGO a universe is brought into being almost automatically.

But the existence of this predetermined criteria (and other criteria) point to intelligence at some point that has to be prior to the initiation of the flow of time, so it too must be eternal. The interaction of the Eternal intelligence with the flow of time introduces an apparent decision making process such as when the Creator responds to His Creation. But the 'decision' was already made and that criteria has always existed. Application to new situations (physical or moral) is merely a formality that interfaces with the flow of time and resembles a decision that we would make. It would seem that intelligent parts of this creation can set flags that clear the Creator to interact, but what they are is not completely known.

But I am veering into religion or theological speculation (but not fantasy, lol) and I am not as well read on that subject as I would like to be. I hate theological lexicon; it is so dry and antiquated. They really need to modernize the language of that field, IMO and cross pollinate with the latest science and mathematics.

But that is the quick answer; the Creator is totally unlike any polytheistic notion of a godling and completely laughable when atheists make the comparison.

 

[ricechickie]

So, your short answer is, there's a Creator because you can't imagine something like this world happening without a Creator?

And if anyone can translate better, I welcome them to enlighten me.

 

[BillyP]

"Because of the nature of eternal objects."

Wtf are those? You just make that up?

"the Creative Force is certainly infinite and most of the infinite things about Him/It are outside the flow of time, an Eternal Creative Force."

You know this how?

"He doesn't make decisions within that non-time environment, it is a steady and constant expression of predetermined will that only acts on realized conditions being set to act when the criteria is met."

Where did you get this idea? Any proof?

"Since time cannot be eternal"

You decide this all by yourself?

"The Creative Force simply acts at that moment the criteria are met, whether that is purely physical, moral"

So your god has no choice when moral criteria are met? So the universe is ruled by morality? Fuck is that ever dumb, even for you.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So, your short answer is, there's a Creator because you can't imagine something like this world happening without a Creator?

And if anyone can translate better, I welcome them to enlighten me.

Wow, OK, let me try to more concise, though I do get the feeling from that response that you really are not looking for an explanation of anything, just more opportunity to posture. But I will give it a shot for the hell of it.

1) What time is as we understand it, basics:
At some point the flow of time began and a physical universe is a necessary part of that flow as time itself is only manifested as objects interact and change in relation to each other. Comparing a clock to a moving object for example is a ratio of a standard rate of change to a nonstandardized rate of change.

You follow that so far?

2) Why the initation of the flow of time cannot be from random event:
Now for the beginning of a new universe to happen 'randomly' it has to occur within the flow of time and space, not necessarily as we know it but time and space of some sort. But this only kicks the can back down the road a bit. The flow of time obviously did not start if there is a random event that occurred preceding an event. So at some point when time itself started with the prior universe, (or Branes or whatever started them at some point back the flow of time started) and so there was no chance for time to start by a random event.

Still with me?

3) This means a pre-existing criteria existed that initiated the flow of time.
So if it wasn't random, then there were pre-existing conditions that initiated time flow. That criteria cannot require a flow of time to start time itself. This calls for some kind of intelligence that has always had this will or intent to start time. All events are either random in cause or meet a criteria of some sort and thus are 'decided' to be brought into being. Since it cannot be random, that only leaves intelligent decision to initiate time.

Hope that helps. If it doesn't I am wasting my time with you. At least you could start reading up on the topic yourself. But atheists today don't even realize what they are talking about when they compare the Creator to Zeus for instance. These are totally different kinds of concepts that unfortunately the same word is used for.

 

[Hollie]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

Why do you think there had to be a Creator?

Because of the nature of eternal objects. The Creative Force that 'decided' to bring the universe into existence is intelligent, probably, but even if that is not established, the Creative Force is certainly infinite and most of the infinite things about Him/It are outside the flow of time, an Eternal Creative Force. He doesn't make decisions within that non-time environment, it is a steady and constant expression of predetermined will that only acts on realized conditions being set to act when the criteria is met. That decision making process is necessary, IMO, and establishes the Creative Force as a Creator. If their is no intelligence then their is no 'decision' outside the flow of time to create the universe or its time-space equivalent that preceded it. Since time cannot be eternal, there is not room for random events to kick things off as their is no time dimension to allow for random events.

So say the criteria for creating a new universe is A, B and W; it isn't considered and evaluated as a criteria, it has already been decided beforehand. The Creative Force simply acts at that moment the criteria are met, whether that is purely physical, moral or some combination of those factors and things we do not yet even comprehend exist. When A is true, B is true and W is false, BINGO a universe is brought into being almost automatically.

But the existence of this predetermined criteria (and other criteria) point to intelligence at some point that has to be prior to the initiation of the flow of time, so it too must be eternal. The interaction of the Eternal intelligence with the flow of time introduces an apparent decision making process such as when the Creator responds to His Creation. But the 'decision' was already made and that criteria has always existed. Application to new situations (physical or moral) is merely a formality that interfaces with the flow of time and resembles a decision that we would make. It would seem that intelligent parts of this creation can set flags that clear the Creator to interact, but what they are is not completely known.

But I am veering into religion or theological speculation (but not fantasy, lol) and I am not as well read on that subject as I would like to be. I hate theological lexicon; it is so dry and antiquated. They really need to modernize the language of that field, IMO and cross pollinate with the latest science and mathematics.

But that is the quick answer; the Creator is totally unlike any polytheistic notion of a godling and completely laughable when atheists make the comparison.

What "nature of eternal objects". What objects are eternal? The ones you're too befuddled to identify?

What "Creative Force"? Identify this "creative force"? Or, are you too befuddled to do so?

 

[JimBowie1958]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

Why do you think there had to be a Creator?

Because of the nature of eternal objects. The Creative Force that 'decided' to bring the universe into existence is intelligent, probably, but even if that is not established, the Creative Force is certainly infinite and most of the infinite things about Him/It are outside the flow of time, an Eternal Creative Force. He doesn't make decisions within that non-time environment, it is a steady and constant expression of predetermined will that only acts on realized conditions being set to act when the criteria is met. That decision making process is necessary, IMO, and establishes the Creative Force as a Creator. If their is no intelligence then their is no 'decision' outside the flow of time to create the universe or its time-space equivalent that preceded it. Since time cannot be eternal, there is not room for random events to kick things off as their is no time dimension to allow for random events.

So say the criteria for creating a new universe is A, B and W; it isn't considered and evaluated as a criteria, it has already been decided beforehand. The Creative Force simply acts at that moment the criteria are met, whether that is purely physical, moral or some combination of those factors and things we do not yet even comprehend exist. When A is true, B is true and W is false, BINGO a universe is brought into being almost automatically.

But the existence of this predetermined criteria (and other criteria) point to intelligence at some point that has to be prior to the initiation of the flow of time, so it too must be eternal. The interaction of the Eternal intelligence with the flow of time introduces an apparent decision making process such as when the Creator responds to His Creation. But the 'decision' was already made and that criteria has always existed. Application to new situations (physical or moral) is merely a formality that interfaces with the flow of time and resembles a decision that we would make. It would seem that intelligent parts of this creation can set flags that clear the Creator to interact, but what they are is not completely known.

But I am veering into religion or theological speculation (but not fantasy, lol) and I am not as well read on that subject as I would like to be. I hate theological lexicon; it is so dry and antiquated. They really need to modernize the language of that field, IMO and cross pollinate with the latest science and mathematics.

But that is the quick answer; the Creator is totally unlike any polytheistic notion of a godling and completely laughable when atheists make the comparison.

What "nature of eternal objects". What objects are eternal? The ones you're too befuddled to identify?

What "Creative Force"? Identify this "creative force"? Or, are you too befuddled to do so?

Lol, it seems plain to me, but the 'nature of eternal objects' is that they are not changing or acting as their is no flow of time. They are a constant steady state of being. They must also be of infinite magnitude or the mere possibility of some process causing them to lose enough energy to cause them to stop esisting would mean that they stop existing. Eternal objects must be omnipotent.

What objects are eternal? We don't know how many there are, but the Creator or Creative Force would be two concepts of what could exist prior to the initiation of time. The difference between a Creator vrs a Creative Force is that the latter does not necessarily have intelligence, though certainly it would in actuality for various reasons.

And I am hardly befuddled simply because you cant read the damned post, nit wit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So, your short answer is, there's a Creator because you can't imagine something like this world happening without a Creator?

And if anyone can translate better, I welcome them to enlighten me.

A second response here to not cloud the previous explanation any further than it has to be to the uninitiated.

My response was kind of unavoidably complex and I read it aloud to my wife who understood it.

The explanation was nowhere near your category of "can't imagine" something. Plenty of people have imagined plenty of things and most of the things I have imagined about a Creator have been imagined by me long before I was born, but some few small things I imagined independently as most do if they dig into this subject.

It is your confirmation bias that forces you to put the square pegs I am giving you into the round holes that you have in your cosmology.

That is no ones fault but your own.

 

[Hollie]

That the universe exists doesn't prove a God does.

Sure it does. It proves that a Creator initiated it and the flow of time within it.

Why do you think there had to be a Creator?

Because of the nature of eternal objects. The Creative Force that 'decided' to bring the universe into existence is intelligent, probably, but even if that is not established, the Creative Force is certainly infinite and most of the infinite things about Him/It are outside the flow of time, an Eternal Creative Force. He doesn't make decisions within that non-time environment, it is a steady and constant expression of predetermined will that only acts on realized conditions being set to act when the criteria is met. That decision making process is necessary, IMO, and establishes the Creative Force as a Creator. If their is no intelligence then their is no 'decision' outside the flow of time to create the universe or its time-space equivalent that preceded it. Since time cannot be eternal, there is not room for random events to kick things off as their is no time dimension to allow for random events.

So say the criteria for creating a new universe is A, B and W; it isn't considered and evaluated as a criteria, it has already been decided beforehand. The Creative Force simply acts at that moment the criteria are met, whether that is purely physical, moral or some combination of those factors and things we do not yet even comprehend exist. When A is true, B is true and W is false, BINGO a universe is brought into being almost automatically.

But the existence of this predetermined criteria (and other criteria) point to intelligence at some point that has to be prior to the initiation of the flow of time, so it too must be eternal. The interaction of the Eternal intelligence with the flow of time introduces an apparent decision making process such as when the Creator responds to His Creation. But the 'decision' was already made and that criteria has always existed. Application to new situations (physical or moral) is merely a formality that interfaces with the flow of time and resembles a decision that we would make. It would seem that intelligent parts of this creation can set flags that clear the Creator to interact, but what they are is not completely known.

But I am veering into religion or theological speculation (but not fantasy, lol) and I am not as well read on that subject as I would like to be. I hate theological lexicon; it is so dry and antiquated. They really need to modernize the language of that field, IMO and cross pollinate with the latest science and mathematics.

But that is the quick answer; the Creator is totally unlike any polytheistic notion of a godling and completely laughable when atheists make the comparison.

What "nature of eternal objects". What objects are eternal? The ones you're too befuddled to identify?

What "Creative Force"? Identify this "creative force"? Or, are you too befuddled to do so?

Lol, it seems plain to me, but the 'nature of eternal objects' is that they are not changing or acting as their is no flow of time. They are a constant steady state of being. They must also be of infinite magnitude or the mere possibility of some process causing them to lose enough energy to cause them to stop esisting would mean that they stop existing. Eternal objects must be omnipotent.

What objects are eternal? We don't know how many there are, but the Creator or Creative Force would be two concepts of what could exist prior to the initiation of time. The difference between a Creator vrs a Creative Force is that the latter does not necessarily have intelligence, though certainly it would in actuality for various reasons.

And I am hardly befuddled simply because you cant read the damned post, nit wit.

So, as we get past your stuttering and mumbling, we're left with you being too befuddled to offer an explanation for nonsensical metaphysics you rattled on about.

 

[dblack]

As I've said, I think gods are real. But if religions want their gods to thrive, they need to start making more believable claims about what they are and what they can do.