Confusion: The wording of the Second Amendment

There is NO CONFUSION about the wording of the 2nd Amendment. The Founding Father's were clear and concise about how the Amendment was to be worded.

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Anyone who is confused is simply an idiot. :cuckoo:
 
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I was down on the reservations a couple of weeks ago. Virtually every nation from 4 corners to canyon de chelly were selling these shirts:
turn_in_your_weapons_the_government_will_take_care_shirt-rc5e40ba681914c2c8edc06401956ff29_jg4de_512.jpg

Well, sparky, times have changed. Today, if the government doesn't look out for Native American rights - who will?
And I have 2nd amendment rights, so call it a wash.

Yes, you do - temporarily...

Tray to take them away.

You'll be the first to go.

Oh, I love that big Bundy talkin' shit - until the feds kick ass and put a cap in one. Then they're all like little lambs. Go Feds!!!!!
It's even funnier the heights you've elevated this guy to.
 
One of the primary arguments of gun advocates in that the Second Amendment guarantees the right for citizens to own and carry guns. Their argument has been repeated so many times that many progressives or moderates parrot the same line. Then they offer arguments as to why there should be limitations on gun ownership, such as bans on assault weapons.

There are two problems with the Second Amendment. First, under any circumstance, it is confusing; something that an English teacher would mark up in red ink and tell the author to redo and clarify. Secondly, there are actually two versions of the Amendment; The first passed by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress (the first step for ratifying a constitutional amendment). A different version passed by three-fourths of the states (the second step for ratifying a constitution amendment). The primary difference between the two versions are a capitalization and asimple comma.

The version passed by Congress is:
  • A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The version ratified by the states and authenticated by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson reads:
  • A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
It’s difficult to determine the difference between having a capital M and a lower-case m in the word militia. Generally, a capital letter means a proper noun. In that case, the upper case M, as in the Congressional version, references a particular militia, that being the armed forces of the United States. The lower-case m in the second version would refer to a group of individuals who form an ad hoc army, most likely to oppose the armed forces of the United States. Therefore, it would be okay to keep and bear arms only as part of the official armed forces of the United States. This argument supports a limited version of the right to bear arms; only when serving in the official armed forces of the United States.

The comma in the first version (between the words Arms and shall) also changes the meaning of the amendment. The first version with the comma maintains the reference to the official armed forces of the United States. That is further evidence that the right to bear arms is limited to serving in the official military of the United States. The lack of a comma (between arms and shall) in the second version, implies that there is equality or parity between bearing arms for the official forces of the United States and for personal use of firearms. This supports the N.R.A. position on the Second Amendment. as does the lower case m.

The provision for passing an amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires ratification of the same language by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress, and the legislatures of three-fourths of the states, as described in Article V of the Constitution. It states:

[shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;]​

But in the case of the Second Amendment, the language between the Congressional and state versions have different meanings.

What this does is to throw out either meaning of the Second Amendment. It puts the definition of the right to bear arms in the same category as other items not mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, such as the right to privacy, the right to reproductive freedom, the right to gay marriage.

Bearing arms is then a legislative issue. It may be that the policy desired by Congress, the states of the U.S., and most importantly the people, is to permit individuals to own assault weapons. It also may be to prohibit them. In any case, the decision should be made on wise policy, without constitutional reference to the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment should be null and void, because its ratification did not follow the prescribed method for passing an amendment. This makes it blatantly confusing.

More: Confusion -- the wording of the Second Amendment

Undoubtedly, the latest gun massacre in Orlando, Florida will prompt another round of gun debates - including the Second Amendment.







It's not confusing at all if English is your first language. I find it hilarious that you completely agree that the 1st Amendment actually means what it says, but then have to twist yourself into knots to try and make the 2nd Amendment a "collective" Right. In other words the government is giving itself the ability to be armed. Which on its face is asinine. Here's what the Bill of Rights are for you learning impaired, brain dead progressives.

It is 9 limitations on what government can do, and one final option. In other words. All of those other Amendments are meaningless without the teeth of the 2nd to make sure they are followed.

That's why you progressives are so desperate to get rid of it. You can't enslave the population of this country while we still maintain the ability to shoot back. The wealthiest of the one percenters are the ones pushing for gun control, and paying for all of these "initiatives" that have suddenly sprung up all over the country.

Gee, I wonder why....
 
One of the primary arguments of gun advocates in that the Second Amendment guarantees the right for citizens to own and carry guns. Their argument has been repeated so many times that many progressives or moderates parrot the same line. Then they offer arguments as to why there should be limitations on gun ownership, such as bans on assault weapons.

There are two problems with the Second Amendment. First, under any circumstance, it is confusing; something that an English teacher would mark up in red ink and tell the author to redo and clarify. Secondly, there are actually two versions of the Amendment; The first passed by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress (the first step for ratifying a constitutional amendment). A different version passed by three-fourths of the states (the second step for ratifying a constitution amendment). The primary difference between the two versions are a capitalization and asimple comma.

The version passed by Congress is:
  • A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The version ratified by the states and authenticated by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson reads:
  • A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
It’s difficult to determine the difference between having a capital M and a lower-case m in the word militia. Generally, a capital letter means a proper noun. In that case, the upper case M, as in the Congressional version, references a particular militia, that being the armed forces of the United States. The lower-case m in the second version would refer to a group of individuals who form an ad hoc army, most likely to oppose the armed forces of the United States. Therefore, it would be okay to keep and bear arms only as part of the official armed forces of the United States. This argument supports a limited version of the right to bear arms; only when serving in the official armed forces of the United States.

The comma in the first version (between the words Arms and shall) also changes the meaning of the amendment. The first version with the comma maintains the reference to the official armed forces of the United States. That is further evidence that the right to bear arms is limited to serving in the official military of the United States. The lack of a comma (between arms and shall) in the second version, implies that there is equality or parity between bearing arms for the official forces of the United States and for personal use of firearms. This supports the N.R.A. position on the Second Amendment. as does the lower case m.

The provision for passing an amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires ratification of the same language by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress, and the legislatures of three-fourths of the states, as described in Article V of the Constitution. It states:

[shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;]​

But in the case of the Second Amendment, the language between the Congressional and state versions have different meanings.

What this does is to throw out either meaning of the Second Amendment. It puts the definition of the right to bear arms in the same category as other items not mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, such as the right to privacy, the right to reproductive freedom, the right to gay marriage.

Bearing arms is then a legislative issue. It may be that the policy desired by Congress, the states of the U.S., and most importantly the people, is to permit individuals to own assault weapons. It also may be to prohibit them. In any case, the decision should be made on wise policy, without constitutional reference to the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment should be null and void, because its ratification did not follow the prescribed method for passing an amendment. This makes it blatantly confusing.

More: Confusion -- the wording of the Second Amendment

Undoubtedly, the latest gun massacre in Orlando, Florida will prompt another round of gun debates - including the Second Amendment.
Second admendment = absolute right to firearm ownership...
 
One of the primary arguments of gun advocates in that the Second Amendment guarantees the right for citizens to own and carry guns. Their argument has been repeated so many times that many progressives or moderates parrot the same line. Then they offer arguments as to why there should be limitations on gun ownership, such as bans on assault weapons.

There are two problems with the Second Amendment. First, under any circumstance, it is confusing; something that an English teacher would mark up in red ink and tell the author to redo and clarify. Secondly, there are actually two versions of the Amendment; The first passed by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress (the first step for ratifying a constitutional amendment). A different version passed by three-fourths of the states (the second step for ratifying a constitution amendment). The primary difference between the two versions are a capitalization and asimple comma.

The version passed by Congress is:
  • A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The version ratified by the states and authenticated by Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson reads:
  • A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
It’s difficult to determine the difference between having a capital M and a lower-case m in the word militia. Generally, a capital letter means a proper noun. In that case, the upper case M, as in the Congressional version, references a particular militia, that being the armed forces of the United States. The lower-case m in the second version would refer to a group of individuals who form an ad hoc army, most likely to oppose the armed forces of the United States. Therefore, it would be okay to keep and bear arms only as part of the official armed forces of the United States. This argument supports a limited version of the right to bear arms; only when serving in the official armed forces of the United States.

The comma in the first version (between the words Arms and shall) also changes the meaning of the amendment. The first version with the comma maintains the reference to the official armed forces of the United States. That is further evidence that the right to bear arms is limited to serving in the official military of the United States. The lack of a comma (between arms and shall) in the second version, implies that there is equality or parity between bearing arms for the official forces of the United States and for personal use of firearms. This supports the N.R.A. position on the Second Amendment. as does the lower case m.

The provision for passing an amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires ratification of the same language by two-thirds of the members of each house of Congress, and the legislatures of three-fourths of the states, as described in Article V of the Constitution. It states:

[shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;]​

But in the case of the Second Amendment, the language between the Congressional and state versions have different meanings.

What this does is to throw out either meaning of the Second Amendment. It puts the definition of the right to bear arms in the same category as other items not mentioned in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, such as the right to privacy, the right to reproductive freedom, the right to gay marriage.

Bearing arms is then a legislative issue. It may be that the policy desired by Congress, the states of the U.S., and most importantly the people, is to permit individuals to own assault weapons. It also may be to prohibit them. In any case, the decision should be made on wise policy, without constitutional reference to the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment should be null and void, because its ratification did not follow the prescribed method for passing an amendment. This makes it blatantly confusing.

More: Confusion -- the wording of the Second Amendment

Undoubtedly, the latest gun massacre in Orlando, Florida will prompt another round of gun debates - including the Second Amendment.
Second admendment = absolute right to firearm ownership...
In Idaho if you know how many firearms you have.... you probably don't have enough.
 
I was down on the reservations a couple of weeks ago. Virtually every nation from 4 corners to canyon de chelly were selling these shirts:
turn_in_your_weapons_the_government_will_take_care_shirt-rc5e40ba681914c2c8edc06401956ff29_jg4de_512.jpg

Well, sparky, times have changed. Today, if the government doesn't look out for Native American rights - who will?

Bwhahahahha. Really? The government is looking out for native American rights? The black man has NOTHING on the indians when it comes to bad treatment by our country. The only reason the indians get anything from our government is when they hire lawyers to fight for their rights.

Mark

Funny? When has the government fought for your rights?

Mark

Many times. Don't you follow legislation? Democrats fight FOR Native Americans - Republicans fight AGAINST Native Americans.
Washington redskin, I know you can't help being a politically correct pussy.
A fake casino Indian like yourself can go fuck yourself... Lol
I once asked a casino indian over at Fort Hall if his buffalo herd had been vaccinated against bruccilosis. I thought the guy was going to pop a gasket.
 
I was down on the reservations a couple of weeks ago. Virtually every nation from 4 corners to canyon de chelly were selling these shirts:
turn_in_your_weapons_the_government_will_take_care_shirt-rc5e40ba681914c2c8edc06401956ff29_jg4de_512.jpg

Well, sparky, times have changed. Today, if the government doesn't look out for Native American rights - who will?
And I have 2nd amendment rights, so call it a wash.

Yes, you do - temporarily...

Tray to take them away.

You'll be the first to go.

Oh, I love that big Bundy talkin' shit - until the feds kick ass and put a cap in one. Then they're all like little lambs. Go Feds!!!!!

Since when have the feds done anything.

That was over land.

You hook up with a company come to take the firearms away from a town or small city.

You'll just be a name on a plaque (and in your case it will simply say ignoramus).
 

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