Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[Hutch Starskey]

This is exactly how you are thinking and what the RW media tells you.

Tell us some more about how the left is ruining everything.

Besides supporting the destruction of public education, supporting H1B visas, banking deregulation which actually screws African-Americans, passing legislation that makes it harder to catch people involved in sex trafficking and sending mixed messages by supporting candidates that support the NRA, as well as, attacking Democratic candidates. Not to mention the DNC BS. How could I forget.........unable to read bills.

And that's just my cup of coffee.

Tell us some more about how the Democratic Party is all about the good guys.

Another timely example. Thank you.

I'm a liberal. Try again.

A self deluded one at that.

You missed the point of the post.

 

[Correll]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

 

[Mac1958]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

You can't blame everything on the media.

People watch and listen and live, and they see.

Was it the media's fault when Trump claimed to not know who David Duke is? Was that fake news?

Come on.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

of course not, but we have seen despots using kids as pawns before----------Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Hiro Hito. The methods of the left have not changed.

Another one who belittles the marches and then is surprised and angry when the change happens.

The point is, instead of bitching about the left, mobilize and bring about the change you want.

 

[MarcATL]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Powerful!

Sent from my SM-J710F using Tapatalk

 

[Hutch Starskey]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

What "different deals"? Equal protections under the law?

 

[dblack]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

What "different deals"? Equal protections under the law?

How would equal protection amount to a "different deals"?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.

I'm not. My point hasn't changed. You just obviously missed the point in the first place.
Go back and reread.

 

[Coyote]

I disagree with you, Mac. I think that the left has been counting on locking up the Hispanic vote the same way they locked up the black vote for decades by accusing the opposition of "racism". The question becomes this...is the Hispanic community going to fall for being promised things that never get delivered on in return for their votes or are they going to learn from what happened to the black community? It's a choice between having the opportunity to live the "American Dream" or be caught in a never ending cycle of dependency. I think the jury is still out on what they decide. I hope for their own sake's that they say no thank you to what the Democrats are offering them.

I don't disagree. Hispanics are ripe for the picking. Hard working, devout, good people. But the GOP is not going to get them with a come-hither look. It's not going to get them with a stronger economy or a roaring stock market. That's what I've been saying all along here. You have to go after them with the same energy the Dems did. But the GOP refuses to do so.

Here's what cracks me up: Trump actually pleasantly surprised me back during the campaign. He actually TRIED when he asked minorities "what have you go to lose?" Holy shit, I thought, maybe he's actually going to reach out. Maybe this will wake the GOP up. Nope. That was it.

You have to reach out. You have to be clear and obvious. Until then, nada.
.

What do you think the follow up to that should have been?

I keep saying it: Reach out. Make it obvious. Attack racism in your party. Admit mistakes. Communicate.

To me, this is screamingly obvious. Communicate. Communicate. Communicate.
.

We've done that. All it does in support the vile lefty lying narrative that the GOP is the party of racism.


It failed.

Gee.....I wonder why?


Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.

Libs expand the definition of what is “us” - they constantly push the envelope of inclusion.
Cons conserve the status quo and the values represented within. Eventually the new becomes the status quo to be conserved. We saw it with race and it is happening. With gay rights.

But if we libs push too hard too fast then there is social pushback.

But that is not the same as parties. Parties and ideologies are independent. Right now the Dems are offering their own forms of exclusion as well. The blue collar working class labeled deplorables and fundies that used to be a part of their base. The election in PA demonstrated that Dems CAN reach out and CAN listen and CAN include them if they care enough and if these sorts of wins aren’t just an isolated phenomanum.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Great example of my point. Thank you.

More fear mongering. Try addressing my point. When has the right mobilized for change in any real way? The tea party movement tried but was never a unified front and fizzled out.

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt

He's certainly revolting.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

Thank you, a substantive and thoughtful thread. I hope it is also thought provoking for those who have been fooled by this new iteration of the Republican Party.

A good comeuppance is desperately needed, though if the Blue Wave does bring forth a sea change in Congress, will they ponder why or claim the election was won by 50,000 million votes by non citizens?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You're simply lazy.

Look at the march in DC yesterday. Hundreds of thousands of people. That is how change starts.

You have children out playing you.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.


The children are saying NOTHING new. THey are not new ideas. Just useful spokesmen.

"Marches" have been assimilated into the system. They are part of the status quo and nothing new.

Nothing new but very effective. It's the formula that has brought about every significant change over my lifetime.

You all like to laugh and belittle them and then are supprised and cry when the change happens.

Increasing government control at the cost of our freedoms is not change. It is part of a much larger trend that has been going on for a long time.


They are supporting the status quo.

It has been going on for a long time. Very effectively. That's the point.

So, we have kids marching in the streets to continue the growth of government at the expense of the individual and you want to celebrate that as change?


We are speaking different languages.

What "growth of government" are the kids advocating?

You mean like creating programs to deputize and train teachers?

 

[rightwinger]

Gee.....I wonder why?


Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.

Would you care to give your best example of the GOP offering "exclusion"?

Really?
If you have to ask that question then you'll never get it.

The GOP would LOVE to get some support from minority voters that agree with us on the issues.


We've tried.


That's an attempt at INCLUSION.


Do you want me to back that up? I'll be happy to.


I challenge you to give me your best example of the GOP being "exclusion".

Republicans found it more profitable to use minorities as scapegoats for all that is wrong with society

RW! That was, for a lib, a real attempt at a point! Good for you.


And talking Law and Order while mobs are rioting and burning in the cities, is a very reasonable and restrained response.

It is what got Trump elected

Scapegoating Mexicans, Muslims and the poor

 

[Correll]

I am very disappointed that the current GOP under Trump seems to have made white nationalists feel empowered and the push back has been very weak.

.. and minorities have noticed.
.

Been lied to by the vile media.


The only people empowering the white nationalists are the media that have a vested interests in lying about their size and relevance.

You can't blame everything on the media.

People watch and listen and live, and they see.

Was it the media's fault when Trump claimed to not know who David Duke is? Was that fake news?

Come on.
.

Trump has denounced white supremacists over and over, before and after that single example.

After a certain point, the question becomes not a question, but a propaganda smear, where by asking it, you make the implication that it is a reasonable question to ask, when it is not.


WHat should have happened in any sane world, is that Trump should have punched that fucker in the face for asking the question.


ANd now, because he blows off that question, that one time, the media never lets it die, lies about it, and creates the false impression that Trump is racist.


I do blame the media. I hold them accountable.

 

[Seawytch]

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Partisan ideologues do that. I can't speak for Coyote, but I think the two sides play that game differently. The Left is aggressive, cynical and blatant in its use of Identity Politics, and with the Right it's a more de facto, indirect thing.
.

The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".

Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.
.

It is like Dems ignoring the voices in areas hard hit by the recession that still haven’t recovered and are unlikely to given that the traditional industries and jobs that supported them are gone. No amount of tariffs and propping up coal will bring back jobs lost to automation and changing market places. The Dems need to listen and speak to those needs because it is a universal message.

Hillary had the right message for those areas.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.​

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt

He's certainly revolting.

Reminds me of an old I Love Lucy episode.

Lucy & Ethel felt taken for granted, so Lucy marched up to Ricky and said "Ethel and I are revolting!"

Ricky said, "Aw honey, you can be a little annoying, but you're not THAT bad".


.

 

[Correll]

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.

I'm not. My point hasn't changed. You just obviously missed the point in the first place.
Go back and reread.

Just keep dismissing it. Then be surprised when Change happens.


Won't it piss you off when your friends and peers start seeing rising wages.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

What "different deals"? Equal protections under the law?

How would equal protection amount to a "different deals"?

That is my question.

 

[Correll]

If we can revitalize the middle class, that will be a pleasant change, that we did.

That would be a great thing but it's a big "if", especially the way it's being tried.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

You asked for an example of us mobilizing for change.


I gave you one that is happening right now.


Regardless of whether we succeed, we have "mobilized for change" and that meet your demand.

Electing Trump is not mobilizing for change.
I have never seen conservatives marching by the hundreds of thousands under a unified message of a specific change. Ever.

Now you are moving the goal post on what "mobilizing for change" is.


Trump is a true outsider. The leadership of both parties fought against him. THe big money of both parties fought against him.

The policies he ran on, if implemented, will reverse bi-partisan policies with generations behind them.


Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt.

Trump is the modern day version of a peasant revolt

He's certainly revolting.

Keep ridiculing and then be surprised when change happens.

 

[dblack]

“Identity politics” is a myth.

Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”

That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.

What "different deals"? Equal protections under the law?

How would equal protection amount to a "different deals"?

That is my question.

Well, it's a dumb question. Got anything else?