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I am not so sure.It is like Dems ignoring the voices in areas hard hit by the recession that still haven’t recovered and are unlikely to given that the traditional industries and jobs that supported them are gone. No amount of tariffs and propping up coal will bring back jobs lost to automation and changing market places. The Dems need to listen and speak to those needs because it is a universal message.Not from a minority person's perspective. The GOP can ignore that if it wants to.The left says "you don't have what you deserve because that person over there took it from you"...the right says "we can help you become that person over there." That's the "game".
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We are.
Here are what I see as key markers to watch...
Are the elections of people like Lamb going to bring those more conservative Dem voices into the Big Tent...or, are they just “placeholders” until a more liberal candidate can be run?
Will the Dems run in 2018 on an anti Trump platform or will they steer clear of that and focus on policy and regional grass roots issues?
If they run in AntiTrump then I thing we are just going to keep seeing the wild pendulum swings and increasingly extreme parties with no middle.
They will run on both.
Libs expand the definition of what is “us” - they constantly push the envelope of inclusion.I keep saying it: Reach out. Make it obvious. Attack racism in your party. Admit mistakes. Communicate.I don't disagree. Hispanics are ripe for the picking. Hard working, devout, good people. But the GOP is not going to get them with a come-hither look. It's not going to get them with a stronger economy or a roaring stock market. That's what I've been saying all along here. You have to go after them with the same energy the Dems did. But the GOP refuses to do so.
Here's what cracks me up: Trump actually pleasantly surprised me back during the campaign. He actually TRIED when he asked minorities "what have you go to lose?" Holy shit, I thought, maybe he's actually going to reach out. Maybe this will wake the GOP up. Nope. That was it.
You have to reach out. You have to be clear and obvious. Until then, nada.
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What do you think the follow up to that should have been?
To me, this is screamingly obvious. Communicate. Communicate. Communicate.
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We've done that. All it does in support the vile lefty lying narrative that the GOP is the party of racism.
It failed.
Gee.....I wonder why?
Libs are successful because they offer inclusion.
Cons offer exclusion at ever opportunity.
Cons conserve the status quo and the values represented within. Eventually the new becomes the status quo to be conserved. We saw it with race and it is happening. With gay rights.
But if we libs push too hard too fast then there is social pushback.
But that is not the same as parties. Parties and ideologies are independent. Right now the Dems are offering their own forms of exclusion as well. The blue collar working class labeled deplorables and fundies that used to be a part of their base. The election in PA demonstrated that Dems CAN reach out and CAN listen and CAN include them if they care enough and if these sorts of wins aren’t just an isolated phenomanum.
Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?Please see post 98.If the GOP is going to just roll over, and that appears to be the case, it'll make things tougher on anyone trying to stop this.
I'm on the outside looking in, too. The Regressives have virtually total control of the party right now. I'm doing things locally, and that's the only thing I can think of to do at this point.
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What exactly do you think we could DO?
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1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.
2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.
1. The GOP of the 50 and 60s that pushed racial equality was not "liberal", Nixon had rock solid anti-communist cred.
2. Black concerns have not been ignored for years. They have constantly been addressed.
3. They were addressed badly by cowardly or corrupt politician that for different reasons would not address the real causes of the problems, but lack of addressed did not happen.
Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.
Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:
First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.
Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?
We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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This is exactly how you are thinking and what the RW media tells you.
Tell us some more about how the left is ruining everything.
Besides supporting the destruction of public education, supporting H1B visas, banking deregulation which actually screws African-Americans, passing legislation that makes it harder to catch people involved in sex trafficking and sending mixed messages by supporting candidates that support the NRA, as well as, attacking Democratic candidates. Not to mention the DNC BS. How could I forget.........unable to read bills.
And that's just my cup of coffee.
Tell us some more about how the Democratic Party is all about the good guys.
Another timely example. Thank you.
I'm a liberal. Try again.
A self deluded one at that.
You missed the point of the post.
“Identity politics” is a myth.
Defending the rights and protected liberties of blacks, Hispanics, gay and transgender Americans and women from attack by Republican/conservative lawmakers is not “Identity politics.”
That's not what people are referring to with the term "identity politics". Rights are equal and universal. Identity politics refers to the way government is moving away from the goal of protecting equal, universal rights, and toward a system where everyone gets a different deal depending on which special interest group they belong to. And it's not just present in civil rights law. This principle is most egregiously exhibited in our tax code, which is replete with special favors for special people.
What "different deals"? Equal protections under the law?
How would equal protection amount to a "different deals"?
That is my question.
Well, it's a dumb question. Got anything else?
So true.Actually not.I think you're kidding yourself there. The left has been all too willing to push for radical change without real consensus. Arguably, that's WHY we're saddled with Trump. The Democrats abandoned their efforts to convince people and grow support, and pushed for change that had no consensus behind it. Major changes like health care reform need more than 51% support. Systemic changes on a national scale are costly and we shouldn't invest in them unless there is broad support.The Left has been patient and consistent, and that's why it will ultimately get its way.
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Democrats have successfully built consensus on a number of issues:
A majority of Americans support a woman’s right to privacy.
A majority of Americans support equal protection rights for gay and transgender Americans.
A majority of Americans support the decriminalization of marijuana.
A majority of Americans support comprehensive immigration reform.
Indeed, Democrats are victims of their own success, having energized and motivated the right hostile to the above achievements, resulting in Republicans installing a minority government that doesn’t reflect the views and opinions of a majority of Americans.
They have been lumping of those people into one label...deploarable. And that automatically negates their concerns.Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?Please see post 98.
.
1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.
2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.
Nobody in the rust belt has been labeled racist simply for concern over losing jobs. That's especially true since the REAL reason jobs were lost has nothing to do with ethnic minorities.
And yes, the reasons for job loss are not because of immigrants, they are diverse, complex and regional. But it isn’t about facts it is about perceptions and addressing them. How can you address them when you have already decided they aren’t worth listening to? Go in there and dog jobs, pensions, community revival, drug addiction treatment and prevention, healthcare, and boosting education and vocational retraining. These people don’t want to hear about lgbtq rights, they need their immediate concerns addressed.
If I told you that all of those things are addressed in the Dem platform but they aren't perceived as being addressed by those in the rust belt because they have been led to focus on the things like LTBQ rights as they have real disdain for gay people....would you see merit in my comment?
I don't know if you can get broad consensus for your agenda or not. But for large symbolic changes - like ACA, like the border wall - shoving something through with slim, partisan support benefits no one. It just leaves a pissed off minority who will undercut whatever you're trying to accomplish as soon as they're back in power. It's senseless thrashing. Even if it's only a few things, wouldn't it be better to pursue changes that (most) everyone can agree on?Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.
Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:
First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.
Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?
We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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So, the same sort of hubris that bit the Dems in the ass?
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I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.
How can we reach general agreement with a party that wants us to have no southern border and import a million illegal aliens a year to vote for their socialist agenda?
Look at Social Security. Regardless of what we might think of it (I'm not a fan), it's been a "successful" government program. In as much as it has never been under any real threat, and still has the broad support of voters. Now look at the vote totals: House: 372/33 Senate: 77/6 with the wide majority of Republicans voting in favor in both houses.
There is common ground to be had. It won't be your ideal. I'm sure it won't be mine. But it might be something we can live with, without leaving behind a bevy of angry partisans ready to undo it all on the next election cycle.
Like not labeling it a mental illness since it isn’t according to the DMSV and treating them like any one else with that same rights and equal protection? Sure I can agree with that.They have been lumping of those people into one label...deploarable. And that automatically negates their concerns.Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?1. Not addressing a specific concern you have, is not rejecting you.
2. We've done nothing to make minorities feel like outcasts. We've been pushing for civil rights and diversity and all that for generations. NIXON is the one that desegregated most of the Southern schools, for Christ's sake.
Nobody in the rust belt has been labeled racist simply for concern over losing jobs. That's especially true since the REAL reason jobs were lost has nothing to do with ethnic minorities.
And yes, the reasons for job loss are not because of immigrants, they are diverse, complex and regional. But it isn’t about facts it is about perceptions and addressing them. How can you address them when you have already decided they aren’t worth listening to? Go in there and dog jobs, pensions, community revival, drug addiction treatment and prevention, healthcare, and boosting education and vocational retraining. These people don’t want to hear about lgbtq rights, they need their immediate concerns addressed.
If I told you that all of those things are addressed in the Dem platform but they aren't perceived as being addressed by those in the rust belt because they have been led to focus on the things like LTBQ rights as they have real disdain for gay people....would you see merit in my comment?
homosexuality and lesbianism are mental illnesses. to pretend that they are anything else is to be ignorant of human biology.
But, we should be tolerant of people with mental issues and treat them with respect, not make them something "special".
.....
On #2 I disagree, racial disparities in the criminal justice system was never really addressed until Obama became, and even then it was baby steps.
Bottom Feeders...Deplorables. Just more labeling.Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.
Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:
First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.
Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?
We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.
There’s just no way to govern for all anymore...there’s no common or middle ground...Democrats are Alt-Left...period.
How do you work with that?
The DNC has busted their ass to execute a long term goal...it’s super simple...they need the filth in this nation to outnumber good quality REAL Americans...through illegal immigration and at the compromise of constitutional authority they’ve done a great job generating a populous of dependent bottom feeders thus a larger Democratic constituency.
Simple shit...forget what you knew about bipartisanship politics...those days are long gone bud.
Well I disagree but that is probably stuff for another thread......
On #2 I disagree, racial disparities in the criminal justice system was never really addressed until Obama became, and even then it was baby steps.
The only racial disparity in the criminal justice system is the race of the people committing the crimes. People who acknowledge the simple truth that black people commit crime at a higher rate than whites which is why they get arrested more often are called racist white supremacists. It's like the left wants us to live in denial.
That's #2 in my OP, assuming that your priorities are everyone's priorities. They are not.I'm sure they have noticed. They have noticed the lowest black unemployment rate in years, the lowest number of welfare recipients in years, the reduction of regulations that allows minority businesses to flourish. Yes, they have noticed, and they thank President Trump.
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that's exactly the problem, we have become two countries. Might be time to separate and see which system works best.
that's exactly the problem, we have become two countries. Might be time to separate and see which system works best.
Bottom Feeders...Deplorables. Just more labeling.Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.
Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:
First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.
Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?
We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.
There’s just no way to govern for all anymore...there’s no common or middle ground...Democrats are Alt-Left...period.
How do you work with that?
The DNC has busted their ass to execute a long term goal...it’s super simple...they need the filth in this nation to outnumber good quality REAL Americans...through illegal immigration and at the compromise of constitutional authority they’ve done a great job generating a populous of dependent bottom feeders thus a larger Democratic constituency.
Simple shit...forget what you knew about bipartisanship politics...those days are long gone bud.
Easier than doing the heavy lifting of communicating and collaborating.That's #2 in my OP, assuming that your priorities are everyone's priorities. They are not.I'm sure they have noticed. They have noticed the lowest black unemployment rate in years, the lowest number of welfare recipients in years, the reduction of regulations that allows minority businesses to flourish. Yes, they have noticed, and they thank President Trump.
.
that's exactly the problem, we have become two countries. Might be time to separate and see which system works best.that's exactly the problem, we have become two countries. Might be time to separate and see which system works best.
Yep. Blow it up!
Well I disagree but that is probably stuff for another thread......
On #2 I disagree, racial disparities in the criminal justice system was never really addressed until Obama became, and even then it was baby steps.
The only racial disparity in the criminal justice system is the race of the people committing the crimes. People who acknowledge the simple truth that black people commit crime at a higher rate than whites which is why they get arrested more often are called racist white supremacists. It's like the left wants us to live in denial.
Like not labeling it a mental illness since it isn’t according to the DMSV and treating them like any one else with that same rights and equal protection? Sure I can agree with that.They have been lumping of those people into one label...deploarable. And that automatically negates their concerns.Liberals pushed for that until it reached a tipping point, then it became widespread. Parties and ideologies are two different things as the southern Dems were absolutely conservative. But here is where I think the GOP does make them feel like their voices are not heard, Black Lives Matter. What is ignored is the huge groundswell of anger at their concerns being ignored for years. Instead of listening they are demonized, their kids are labeled thugs. How is that different than the rust belt being labeled racist because they see illegal immigrants as taking their jobs?
Nobody in the rust belt has been labeled racist simply for concern over losing jobs. That's especially true since the REAL reason jobs were lost has nothing to do with ethnic minorities.
And yes, the reasons for job loss are not because of immigrants, they are diverse, complex and regional. But it isn’t about facts it is about perceptions and addressing them. How can you address them when you have already decided they aren’t worth listening to? Go in there and dog jobs, pensions, community revival, drug addiction treatment and prevention, healthcare, and boosting education and vocational retraining. These people don’t want to hear about lgbtq rights, they need their immediate concerns addressed.
If I told you that all of those things are addressed in the Dem platform but they aren't perceived as being addressed by those in the rust belt because they have been led to focus on the things like LTBQ rights as they have real disdain for gay people....would you see merit in my comment?
homosexuality and lesbianism are mental illnesses. to pretend that they are anything else is to be ignorant of human biology.
But, we should be tolerant of people with mental issues and treat them with respect, not make them something "special".
Comparing the ACA, which is socialism, with the wall is insane for two reasons.
Social Security is again socialism. It's armed robbery regardless of who supports it. You'd get that if you were a libertarian
Bottom Feeders...Deplorables. Just more labeling.Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.
Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:
First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.
Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?
We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.
There’s just no way to govern for all anymore...there’s no common or middle ground...Democrats are Alt-Left...period.
How do you work with that?
The DNC has busted their ass to execute a long term goal...it’s super simple...they need the filth in this nation to outnumber good quality REAL Americans...through illegal immigration and at the compromise of constitutional authority they’ve done a great job generating a populous of dependent bottom feeders thus a larger Democratic constituency.
Simple shit...forget what you knew about bipartisanship politics...those days are long gone bud.
"Deplorable" is shorthand for "white people who refuse to kiss black ass"
