Conservatives sold themselves two lies

[dblack]

Life isn't either/or, one or the other, binary. Maybe there's another way.
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I'm not sure our political infrastructure is capable of producing it, but there has never been a better time for a party that actually seeks consensus, rather than a narrow majority, when formulating policy goals.

How can we reach general agreement with a party that wants us to have no southern border and import a million illegal aliens a year to vote for their socialist agenda?

I don't know if you can get broad consensus for your agenda or not. But for large symbolic changes - like ACA, like the border wall - shoving something through with slim, partisan support benefits no one. It just leaves a pissed off minority who will undercut whatever you're trying to accomplish as soon as they're back in power. It's senseless thrashing. Even if it's only a few things, wouldn't it be better to pursue changes that (most) everyone can agree on?

Look at Social Security. Regardless of what we might think of it (I'm not a fan), it's been a "successful" government program. In as much as it has never been under any real threat, and still has the broad support of voters. Now look at the vote totals: House: 372/33 Senate: 77/6 with the wide majority of Republicans voting in favor in both houses.

There is common ground to be had. It won't be your ideal. I'm sure it won't be mine. But it might be something we can live with, without leaving behind a bevy of angry partisans ready to undo it all on the next election cycle.

Comparing the ACA, which is socialism, with the wall is insane for two reasons. The ACA is socialism, the wall is security. Redistribution of wealth and protecting us from criminals and poor people draining our educational and medical system and filling our jails is a false equivalency.

Second, "border security" polls highly, it's not a slim margin. The wall has been stigmatized as a political issue by Democrats and people are afraid to be for it lest they be called a racist. But if you look at what the wall does, it has broad support. It's hard to see that there's going to be an issue when it is built (fingers crossed) and works.

Social Security is again socialism. It's armed robbery regardless of who supports it. You'd get that if you were a libertarian

Affordable health care is WAY more security than a stupid wall that can be tunneled under.

Okay guys - let's back up and return to the point of my comments, which apparently went right over your heads. I'm not advocating for any of these things (The wall, social security, ACA). I'm merely making observations about the mistake of trying to force fundamental change on society without consensus. Social security, like it or not, had that consensus and still does. ACA never did, which is why it's being dismantled. The wall would be no different. Both parties need to understand that forcing change on the basis of slim, partisan support is a mistake.

 

[Seawytch]

There's absolutely no equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump.

Is Obama the Antichrist?
.

Did the MSM run articles saying he was?

Donald Trump is actually a fascist

Opinion | Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Is Donald Trump a fascist? - CNN

Donald Trump is a Nazi sympathizer

This Donald Trump Rally Looks Like A Scene From Nazi Germany | HuffPost

I'm merely pointing out that there is plenty of "equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump".

I could post much, much more. The two ends have largely become mirror images in many ways.
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Except there REALLY is a difference in the candidates. It's not like it's "crazy left wing liberals" that are the only ones pulling the fucking fire alarm in regards to Trump.

Retired four-star Army general: Trump, 'under the sway of Putin,' threatens national security

 

[Dragonlady]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
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You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

Dragonlady is the perfect example of how liberals use identity politics to attack the GOP. Trump calls for common sense immigration reform...something that we should have done YEARS ago! So what do people like DL fixate on? That Trump thinks some parts of the world are worse than others? Something that may not be politically correct but is 100% accurate?

The reality is that it’s really really hard to get out of a shithole country. You have to work really hard, and be smart to get enough money for the ticket and get a visa.

Regardless of what Trump says, the “visa” lottery is not an easy way in. You have to submit your name, it’s not a random draw at all, and then you have to complete the same paperwork and pass the same background checks that any potential immigrant has to complete. The lottery doesn’t provide the means to immigrate, just the assurance that if you pass the background checks, your application will not be rejected.

 

[impuretrash]

There's absolutely no equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump.

Is Obama the Antichrist?
.

Did the MSM run articles saying he was?

Donald Trump is actually a fascist

Opinion | Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Is Donald Trump a fascist? - CNN

Donald Trump is a Nazi sympathizer

This Donald Trump Rally Looks Like A Scene From Nazi Germany | HuffPost

He has (according to you and yours) another seven years of that coming.

Quick question. Any regrets for the shit storm y'all put Obama through? If the answer is no then no. Your boy still needs to do seven years in the barrel.

What "y'all" don't seem to understand is that you can't hold me personally responsible for what other people do (like you try to do with slavery and Jim Crow). I never said Obama was the antichrist.

I'd love just once for a liberal to acknowledge the fact that they OWN the mainstream media/hollywood entertainment and that the commentary of a few random citizens online doesn't have the same reach as multi-billion dollar corporations.

 

[Dragonlady]

There's absolutely no equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump.

Is Obama the Antichrist?
.

Did the MSM run articles saying he was?

Donald Trump is actually a fascist

Opinion | Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Is Donald Trump a fascist? - CNN

Donald Trump is a Nazi sympathizer

This Donald Trump Rally Looks Like A Scene From Nazi Germany | HuffPost

I'm merely pointing out that there is plenty of "equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump".

I could post much, much more. The two ends have largely become mirror images in many ways.
.

Sorry but you're wrong. The left has complete ownership of mainstream news media and entertainment to spread their propaganda. We have Fox and Breitbart.

I agree that FOX and Breitbart promote propaganda, and have little interest in facts, but the Mainstream newspapers and reporting aren’t promoting propaganda, but rather news, facts and information.

Right wingers carry on that the MSM is biased, but all of the studies show that the bias is very slight - under 10%.

 

[impuretrash]

There's absolutely no equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump.

Is Obama the Antichrist?
.

Did the MSM run articles saying he was?

Donald Trump is actually a fascist

Opinion | Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Is Donald Trump a fascist? - CNN

Donald Trump is a Nazi sympathizer

This Donald Trump Rally Looks Like A Scene From Nazi Germany | HuffPost

I'm merely pointing out that there is plenty of "equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump".

I could post much, much more. The two ends have largely become mirror images in many ways.
.

Sorry but you're wrong. The left has complete ownership of mainstream news media and entertainment to spread their propaganda. We have Fox and Breitbart.

I agree that FOX and Breitbart promote propaganda, and have little interest in facts, but the Mainstream newspapers and reporting aren’t promoting propaganda, but rather news, facts and information.

Right wingers carry on that the MSM is biased, but all of the studies show that the bias is very slight - under 10%.

The biased MSM are the ones who popularize words like islamophobia, LBGTQ and institutionalized racism. They poison civil discourse and need to be held to account for fomenting discord.

 

[sartre play]

Wow 27 pages and not many being honest about who they blame for there problems. not speaking for the nation just for us that use this board. white people are afraid of loss of power, who could blame them, if you have spent major energy trying to keep the "others" in there place by treating them as less than. as a white person I see where this is scary, Also agree that there is no reason not to deport the criminal element out of our country. that can only happen if both party's come together to make that happen. do that 1st, before throwing out hard working people who want to become Americans.

 

[kaz]

One of the ironies is that there is a substantial conservative reservoir in this demographic shift. In their own way, thr GOP plays their own game of identity politics through rejection, which hands these groups right to the Dems. Many Hispanics and Muslims are culturally conservative and devout.

Yep, very good point. And "rejection" is a very good term.

The GOP is doing this to themselves, and they don't have to. They've been led down the wrong road.
.

You know what I find most amusing about the left these days, Mac? It's their habit of accusing the opposition of the very thing that they themselves are guilty of. The GOP plays "identity politics"? Really?

Absolutely.

Don’t be a race traitor. Keep America white. Vote Republican.
Keep people out from shithole countries. Vote Republican.

Dragonlady is the perfect example of how liberals use identity politics to attack the GOP. Trump calls for common sense immigration reform...something that we should have done YEARS ago! So what do people like DL fixate on? That Trump thinks some parts of the world are worse than others? Something that may not be politically correct but is 100% accurate?

The reality is that it’s really really hard to get out of a shithole country. You have to work really hard, and be smart to get enough money for the ticket and get a visa.

Regardless of what Trump says, the “visa” lottery is not an easy way in. You have to submit your name, it’s not a random draw at all, and then you have to complete the same paperwork and pass the same background checks that any potential immigrant has to complete. The lottery doesn’t provide the means to immigrate, just the assurance that if you pass the background checks, your application will not be rejected.

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

 

[dblack]

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

You don't see the chicken-and-egg in that? The reason we have a problem with illegal immigration is because we aren't accepting enough legal immigrants. If we opened that up, most people would use the legal channels, and we could be pretty certain that those who weren't were 'bad guys'. As it is, most Americans recognize that most 'illegal' immigrants are just poor people trying to feed their families. That's why we can't get behind putting them all in jail, or building a wall, or whatever authoritarian horseshit Trumpsters are cheering for.

 

[Mac1958]

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dems are very hopeful you'll fight back.

LMAO. OMG, you're delusional. Democrat's whole shtick is that they are zealots and Republicans are weak and pathetic. That's why you're in meltdown over Trump, who is fighting back

Okay. Different universes. We'll see soon enough.

You're proving my point begging the Republicans not to fight back. Of course you don't want them to

I realize Trumpsters have been sold that there's only one way to fight back: Like petulant teenagers. That's up to you.

You're just illustrating the OP for me.
.

 

[impuretrash]

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dems are very hopeful you'll fight back
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LMAO. OMG, you're delusional. Democrat's whole shtick is that they are zealots and Republicans are weak and pathetic. That's why you're in meltdown over Trump, who is fighting back

You want to live in the past. Or maybe more specifically, you want to recreate the past now. You want white, Christian males to be at the top of the heap, and make decisions for everybody.

That part of history is on its way out the door.

White male christians created western civilization.

And omg if it didn't suck.

Time for a change.

I guess that explains why our lives are so full of bitter struggle, and why all the world wants to come and live in our countries.

 

[kaz]

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

You don't see the chicken-and-egg in that? The reason we have a problem with illegal immigration is because we aren't accepting enough legal immigrants. If we opened that up, most people would use the legal channels, and we could be pretty certain that those who weren't were 'bad guys'. As it is, most Americans recognize that most 'illegal' immigrants are just poor people trying to feed their families. That's why they can get behind putting them all in jail, or building a wall, or whatever authoritarian horseshit Trumpsters are cheering for.

That's bull shit. We have an illegal immigration problem because we don't have a southern border, we have better jobs than in Mexico and we pay tons of welfare to illegal criminals who ignore our laws.

That has the impact that we can't bring in more legals. There is no chicken and the egg. None of the low end Mexicans who go on welfare would be coming in if we only had legal immigration. We'd be accepting middle class Mexicans and others from across the world who can support themselves instead.

I don't understand how someone who keeps claiming to be a libertarian constantly vomits authoritarian leftist talking points

 

[kaz]

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dems are very hopeful you'll fight back.

LMAO. OMG, you're delusional. Democrat's whole shtick is that they are zealots and Republicans are weak and pathetic. That's why you're in meltdown over Trump, who is fighting back

Okay. Different universes. We'll see soon enough.

You're proving my point begging the Republicans not to fight back. Of course you don't want them to

I realize Trumpsters have been sold that there's only one way to fight back: Like petulant teenagers. That's up to you.

You're just illustrating the OP for me.
.

Yes, you want Republicans to roll over. They've done that all my life, and it's worked out great for you. You just want the ride to continue

 

[Witchit]

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dems are very hopeful you'll fight back.

LMAO. OMG, you're delusional. Democrat's whole shtick is that they are zealots and Republicans are weak and pathetic. That's why you're in meltdown over Trump, who is fighting back

Okay. Different universes. We'll see soon enough.

You're proving my point begging the Republicans not to fight back. Of course you don't want them to

I realize Trumpsters have been sold that there's only one way to fight back: Like petulant teenagers. That's up to you.

You're just illustrating the OP for me.
.

Yes, you want Republicans to roll over. They've done that all my life, and it's worked out great for you. You just want the ride to continue

Were you asleep in 2010? Seriously. Remember the Tea Party? Remember how they swept to victory in the midterms? Remember how much damage they did, which you no doubt perceived as progress?

Revisionist History doesn't work when we all saw the original as it played out.

 

[dblack]

This is a huge reason we need a border wall. It's so unfair for people to go through that and then we have option B of walk across our southern border and cut in line. We could accept so many more legal immigrants who follow the law if we didn't do that and accept the criminals who walk across our southern border now

You don't see the chicken-and-egg in that? The reason we have a problem with illegal immigration is because we aren't accepting enough legal immigrants. If we opened that up, most people would use the legal channels, and we could be pretty certain that those who weren't were 'bad guys'. As it is, most Americans recognize that most 'illegal' immigrants are just poor people trying to feed their families. That's why they can get behind putting them all in jail, or building a wall, or whatever authoritarian horseshit Trumpsters are cheering for.

That's bull shit. We have an illegal immigration problem because we don't have a southern border, we have better jobs than in Mexico and we pay tons of welfare to illegal criminals who ignore our laws.

That has the impact that we can't bring in more legals.

No, it really doesn't. We can widen the pipeline for legal immigrants regardless.

I don't understand how someone who keeps claiming to be a libertarian constantly vomits authoritarian leftist talking points

That's because you don't understand liberty. Most libertarians think your wall is asinine.

 

[mudwhistle]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
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This is just an attempt by the swamp to separate Trump from his base. Morons like Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter are doing the work of the Democrats willingly.

 

[Dragonlady]

There's absolutely no equivalence to Obama's opposition and the 24/7 sky is falling hysteria around Trump.

Is Obama the Antichrist?
.

Did the MSM run articles saying he was?

Donald Trump is actually a fascist

Opinion | Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Is Donald Trump a fascist? - CNN

Donald Trump is a Nazi sympathizer

This Donald Trump Rally Looks Like A Scene From Nazi Germany | HuffPost

He has (according to you and yours) another seven years of that coming.

Quick question. Any regrets for the shit storm y'all put Obama through? If the answer is no then no. Your boy still needs to do seven years in the barrel.

What "y'all" don't seem to understand is that you can't hold me personally responsible for what other people do (like you try to do with slavery and Jim Crow). I never said Obama was the antichrist.

I'd love just once for a liberal to acknowledge the fact that they OWN the mainstream media/hollywood entertainment and that the commentary of a few random citizens online doesn't have the same reach as multi-billion dollar corporations.

Liberals don’t “own” the media or Hollywood. The media, with few exceptions, is owned by publically traded corporations.

FOX is one of those exceptions, as is Breitbart, both of which are privately owned by right wing ideologues, and both of which have never let the truth or facts influence their stories.

Disney Media, which owns ABC is publically traded. As is Comcast (NBC) and CBS. All three have high journalistic standards, unlike FOX or Breitbart.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I can pretty much guarantee you that the Dems are very hopeful you'll fight back
.

LMAO. OMG, you're delusional. Democrat's whole shtick is that they are zealots and Republicans are weak and pathetic. That's why you're in meltdown over Trump, who is fighting back

You want to live in the past. Or maybe more specifically, you want to recreate the past now. You want white, Christian males to be at the top of the heap, and make decisions for everybody.

That part of history is on its way out the door.

White male christians created western civilization.

And omg if it didn't suck.

Time for a change.

I guess that explains why our lives are so full of bitter struggle, and why all the world wants to come and live in our countries.

Your lives may be, but mine's awesome. Stop speaking for the entire country please.

 

[MarathonMike]

You can't be serious. Publicly traded company means they are free of political bias? The New York Times, Google and Facebook to name a few are massive publicly traded companies with equally massive Liberal bias.

 

[Coyote]

Looking at the threads, it's pretty clear that many of Trump's supporters are throwing up their hands right now. Understandable. Some are blaming Trump, others are blaming the GOP "swamp". Whichever.

Conservatives allowed themselves to believe two lies:

First, that overnight, they could just yank this entire country over to their way of looking at things. Mention "incrementalism" and they'd laugh. They figured things would just go so swimmingly, so quickly, that we'd all just mindlessly fall in line behind them. That's not how it works, guys. You have to prove yourselves. Bit by bit. Over time. You haven't.

Second, that their national priorities are shared by everyone else. Wrong again. You point to the stock market and unemployment as the reasons we should all fall in line. That shows you don't understand that a growing number of people have different priorities. I wonder if you know what they are. You never bring them up. Would any of you like to guess?

We'll know more in eight months. But at some level, you have to know this hasn't been a rousing success so far, and the current trajectory ain't favorable. Outside of blaming someone else, you may want to examine why.
.

There’s just no way to govern for all anymore...there’s no common or middle ground...Democrats are Alt-Left...period.
How do you work with that?
The DNC has busted their ass to execute a long term goal...it’s super simple...they need the filth in this nation to outnumber good quality REAL Americans...through illegal immigration and at the compromise of constitutional authority they’ve done a great job generating a populous of dependent bottom feeders thus a larger Democratic constituency.
Simple shit...forget what you knew about bipartisanship politics...those days are long gone bud.

How do you work with the alt-right?