Corporate Welfare versus Invidual Welfare. Which Costs Taxpayers the Most?

[zeke]

If you make "no moral judgement" then why the fuck post the information?

All anyone has to do is read a couple of your posts to figure out that you loves you some corporate welfare and hate you some individual welfare.

So is a no bid government contract corporate welfare. No moral judgement to be made. Just a simple question. It a "yes" or a "no".

See how easy that was.
How many dollars can you add to corporate welfare if you add in no bid contracts? How much corporate welfare for government contractors with a time and material bid? You know, those bids that start out reasonable that balloon into billions and billions of cost overruns. That no one in the government says a thing about.

And when does corporate welfare cut off? Hell people loose their benefits in a matter of months or a couple years.

The defense contractors and mega farms have had their corporate welfare for decades.

You were going to try and kick some poor people while they are down again. Gee. Why am I not surprised.

I'll play. You seem obsessed with no-bid Government contracts. Do you mean Healthcare.gov?

Absolutely I mean any corporate welfare. One of the most stupid mistakes the Obama admin has made.

Now your turn. Which corporation that receives corporate welfare do you think was a mistake? Was it Halliburton? Boeing? Archer Daniels Midland.

Which one of those do you hate that they receive yours and my money?

And those "no bid" contracts are welfare.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I don't like Corporate Welfare. This thread was not an endorsement of Corporate Welfare. I have no doubt there is tremendous fraud an abuse. I have worked in healthcare for 25 years and I can tell you there is tremendous fraud and abuse in individual welfare.

Kids should never be denied benefits because of irresponsible parents...but able bodied adults...particularly men....I have a real problem with that.

 

[DiamondDave]

If you make "no moral judgement" then why the fuck post the information?

All anyone has to do is read a couple of your posts to figure out that you loves you some corporate welfare and hate you some individual welfare.

So is a no bid government contract corporate welfare. No moral judgement to be made. Just a simple question. It a "yes" or a "no".

See how easy that was.
How many dollars can you add to corporate welfare if you add in no bid contracts? How much corporate welfare for government contractors with a time and material bid? You know, those bids that start out reasonable that balloon into billions and billions of cost overruns. That no one in the government says a thing about.

And when does corporate welfare cut off? Hell people loose their benefits in a matter of months or a couple years.

The defense contractors and mega farms have had their corporate welfare for decades.

You were going to try and kick some poor people while they are down again. Gee. Why am I not surprised.

I'll play. You seem obsessed with no-bid Government contracts. Do you mean Healthcare.gov?

Absolutely I mean any corporate welfare. One of the most stupid mistakes the Obama admin has made.

Now your turn. Which corporation that receives corporate welfare do you think was a mistake? Was it Halliburton? Boeing? Archer Daniels Midland.

Which one of those do you hate that they receive yours and my money?

And those "no bid" contracts are welfare.

Not that I am defending any type of welfare... BUT... no-bid contracts are not inherently welfare... sometimes, just sometimes, there is one company who does a service or can do a service that others cannot or will not... whether you like it or not, that is a piece of reality.. and thus they are given no bid contracts, especially if they have a proven track record and nobody else does...

 

[rightwinger]

Most Corporate Welfare is below the radar and not direct payments

It is policy, tax codes, protecting corporate foreign investments, patent protections. After all, Corporations are people.....people who have a Congressman on speed dial

Exactly. Every time a state government offers lower rates and special deals to move a corporation into their state, it's a "bribe". Not complaining. It is competition. But the problem is you can't put a dollar amount on it. You can on direct subsidies. But not on state tax write-offs and special land, power and sewer deals. But you will never get the ignorant to admit it.

It is hard to put a direct number on what we provide to corporations. The majority of our defense budget goes towards projecting our military power around the globe. By protecting global stability and directly protecting foreign investments, our military keeps the money flowing

 

[zeke]

I'll play. You seem obsessed with no-bid Government contracts. Do you mean Healthcare.gov?

Absolutely I mean any corporate welfare. One of the most stupid mistakes the Obama admin has made.

Now your turn. Which corporation that receives corporate welfare do you think was a mistake? Was it Halliburton? Boeing? Archer Daniels Midland.

Which one of those do you hate that they receive yours and my money?

And those "no bid" contracts are welfare.

Not that I am defending any type of welfare... BUT... no-bid contracts are not inherently welfare... sometimes, just sometimes, there is one company who does a service or can do a service that others cannot or will not... whether you like it or not, that is a piece of reality.. and thus they are given no bid contracts, especially if they have a proven track record and nobody else does...

No bid contracts are welfare to the connected. How do you think they got the no bid contract in the first place. Think Halliburton would have got their contracts without Dick Cheney having been a Halliburton executive?

And please tell me, causes I know you loves you some private industry, what corporations dealing with other private corporations receive "no bid contracts"?

 

[DiamondDave]

Absolutely I mean any corporate welfare. One of the most stupid mistakes the Obama admin has made.

Now your turn. Which corporation that receives corporate welfare do you think was a mistake? Was it Halliburton? Boeing? Archer Daniels Midland.

Which one of those do you hate that they receive yours and my money?

And those "no bid" contracts are welfare.

Not that I am defending any type of welfare... BUT... no-bid contracts are not inherently welfare... sometimes, just sometimes, there is one company who does a service or can do a service that others cannot or will not... whether you like it or not, that is a piece of reality.. and thus they are given no bid contracts, especially if they have a proven track record and nobody else does...

No bid contracts are welfare to the connected. How do you think they got the no bid contract in the first place. Think Halliburton would have got their contracts without Dick Cheney having been a Halliburton executive?

And please tell me, causes I know you loves you some private industry, what corporations dealing with other private corporations receive "no bid contracts"?

No.. that is what you WANT To believe.. that is not inherently reality.. CAN it be?? Yes..

But sometimes there is one company who can do the task, or do it to the scale or timeframe needed... not 2, not 10, or whatever.. and hence, the no-bid is NOT welfare, but a necessity

We just did a no-bid contract in our company with the SINGLE firm that specializes in the installation of a particular new technology.. there was no necessity for seeking bids

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So we could save a trillion dollars a year in spending by making everyone take responsibility for themself?

I say lets do that. No coporate or idividual welfare. Not to anyone at all.

 

[zeke]

Yea that Halliburton was sure good at what they do. Remember when they were electrocuting soldiers in the showers in Iraq. They couldn't hook up the pump correctly and ended up killing a couple soldiers and injuring others. Or maybe when the soldiers didn't have the fresh water that Halliburton was supposed to provide.

Whew. They sure are good and deserving of that no bid contract. And the soldiers couldn't even sue them for anything they did. Now that's protection.

 

[Sallow]

Most Corporate Welfare is below the radar and not direct payments

It is policy, tax codes, protecting corporate foreign investments, patent protections. After all, Corporations are people.....people who have a Congressman on speed dial

Add in government contracts and the multiple wars we've had to secure oversea "American Interests".

The cost to American tax payers is in the trillions.

 

[RightDown]

One of our liberal posters used the phrase "Corporate Welfare" today. We have all heard the term, mostly used by folks on the left, and they use the typical moral equivalency argument. You know..."well maybe we spend a lot on welfare...but those bastard Corporations get Corporate welfare and that is just as much money and it's even worse."

So I had to look it up. How much does "Corporate Welfare" cost we the Taxpayers versus Individual Welfare?


According to the Cato Institute Corporate Welfare costs the U.S. taxpayer $100 billion a year. Self-identified Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders puts the number at $125 billion a year. For the sake of argument...we'll go with Bernie.


Corporate Welfare Costs $125 billion. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Individual Welfare Costs $927 billion. These are programs strictly for the poor. No Medicare or Social Security. This is just for Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, CHIP, Housing Assistance, Energy Cost Assistance, SSI, and TANF

Link: Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States--later (after 2010) expenditures are unknown but higher."[3]



So in summary. The Federal Government spends $125 billion a year in Corporate Welfare. The Federal Government spends $927 billion a year on individual Welfare. Corporate Welfare accounts for 13% of the costs of Individual Welfare. Individual Welfare Costs have gone up 31% over the last 10 years. Corporate Welfare costs have remained flat.


Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare programs. They are entitlements. People pay into the program and they are entitled to their benefits. SS does pay a very small annual amount to widows, orphans and the disabled b/c they are not a productive labor force.

Do you suggest we cut those payments to the widows,orphans and disabled? I would disagree with that.

There hasn't been AFDC for almost 20 years. Judging by how outdated your sources are, I'd say you should re-evaluate your calculus.

Why are you comparing these things anyways? In what moral paradigm does aid to the poor and destitute equate with aid to the well off?

Are you suggesting anything with this comparison?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

SS and medicare aren't in the totals, Dullard. The OP even points that out in the quote you created but didn't read.

you're welcome.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yea that Halliburton was sure good at what they do. Remember when they were electrocuting soldiers in the showers in Iraq. They couldn't hook up the pump correctly and ended up killing a couple soldiers and injuring others. Or maybe when the soldiers didn't have the fresh water that Halliburton was supposed to provide.

Whew. They sure are good and deserving of that no bid contract. And the soldiers couldn't even sue them for anything they did. Now that's protection.

Yes.. because other companies do not have tragic mistakes by employees or whatever

Fact is with Haliburton (which you and your ilk just harp on because of the name Cheney), nobody else could do what was needed on the scale and timeframe.. there was not an option for another company to start up a whole new division, a whole new set of logistics, etc...

Much like my company.. you expect us to wait for another company to be able to deal with the installation of the technology to have a bid, or do it now without bid 6-12 months before our competition and gain even more advantage??

You sir, are an idiot

 

[zeke]

One of our liberal posters used the phrase "Corporate Welfare" today. We have all heard the term, mostly used by folks on the left, and they use the typical moral equivalency argument. You know..."well maybe we spend a lot on welfare...but those bastard Corporations get Corporate welfare and that is just as much money and it's even worse."

So I had to look it up. How much does "Corporate Welfare" cost we the Taxpayers versus Individual Welfare?


According to the Cato Institute Corporate Welfare costs the U.S. taxpayer $100 billion a year. Self-identified Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders puts the number at $125 billion a year. For the sake of argument...we'll go with Bernie.


Corporate Welfare Costs $125 billion. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Individual Welfare Costs $927 billion. These are programs strictly for the poor. No Medicare or Social Security. This is just for Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, CHIP, Housing Assistance, Energy Cost Assistance, SSI, and TANF

Link: Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States--later (after 2010) expenditures are unknown but higher."[3]



So in summary. The Federal Government spends $125 billion a year in Corporate Welfare. The Federal Government spends $927 billion a year on individual Welfare. Corporate Welfare accounts for 13% of the costs of Individual Welfare. Individual Welfare Costs have gone up 31% over the last 10 years. Corporate Welfare costs have remained flat.


Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare programs. They are entitlements. People pay into the program and they are entitled to their benefits. SS does pay a very small annual amount to widows, orphans and the disabled b/c they are not a productive labor force.

Do you suggest we cut those payments to the widows,orphans and disabled? I would disagree with that.

There hasn't been AFDC for almost 20 years. Judging by how outdated your sources are, I'd say you should re-evaluate your calculus.

Why are you comparing these things anyways? In what moral paradigm does aid to the poor and destitute equate with aid to the well off?

Are you suggesting anything with this comparison?

Yea welfare queen is suggesting that he/she didn't think through the premise of the thread very well and is getting their ass kicked.

Why it is ok to give corporate welfare to corporations making billions VS welfare for the poorest among us.

Never entered their mind that the two subject were not "equal". Matter of fact, welfare queen was TRYING to make the point that welfare for corporations was fine cause it doesn't cost nearly as much. Until they were asked to look at all the other "welfare" for corporations.

Then the math wasn't the same and welfare queen bailed out on their own thread.

The end.

 

[Seawytch]

Also not in the totals are the subsidies given to oil, gas and coal...those amount to a few billion (15-20 I'd say)

 

[DiamondDave]

Also not in the totals are the subsidies given to oil, gas and coal...those amount to a few billion (15-20 I'd say)

Don't think bullshit farm subsidies were in there either

IN any account.. all the welfare should be stopped.. regardless of destination

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Also not in the totals are the subsidies given to oil, gas and coal...those amount to a few billion (15-20 I'd say)

Subsidies or tax breaks? A common LOLberal "mistake".

 

[DiamondDave]

Also not in the totals are the subsidies given to oil, gas and coal...those amount to a few billion (15-20 I'd say)

Subsidies or tax breaks? A common LOLberal "mistake".

Flat tax it then.. they lose their talking point

 

[WelfareQueen]

One of our liberal posters used the phrase "Corporate Welfare" today. We have all heard the term, mostly used by folks on the left, and they use the typical moral equivalency argument. You know..."well maybe we spend a lot on welfare...but those bastard Corporations get Corporate welfare and that is just as much money and it's even worse."

So I had to look it up. How much does "Corporate Welfare" cost we the Taxpayers versus Individual Welfare?


According to the Cato Institute Corporate Welfare costs the U.S. taxpayer $100 billion a year. Self-identified Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders puts the number at $125 billion a year. For the sake of argument...we'll go with Bernie.


Corporate Welfare Costs $125 billion. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Individual Welfare Costs $927 billion. These are programs strictly for the poor. No Medicare or Social Security. This is just for Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, CHIP, Housing Assistance, Energy Cost Assistance, SSI, and TANF

Link: Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States--later (after 2010) expenditures are unknown but higher."[3]



So in summary. The Federal Government spends $125 billion a year in Corporate Welfare. The Federal Government spends $927 billion a year on individual Welfare. Corporate Welfare accounts for 13% of the costs of Individual Welfare. Individual Welfare Costs have gone up 31% over the last 10 years. Corporate Welfare costs have remained flat.


Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

Social Security and Medicare are not welfare programs. They are entitlements. People pay into the program and they are entitled to their benefits. SS does pay a very small annual amount to widows, orphans and the disabled b/c they are not a productive labor force.

Do you suggest we cut those payments to the widows,orphans and disabled? I would disagree with that.

There hasn't been AFDC for almost 20 years. Judging by how outdated your sources are, I'd say you should re-evaluate your calculus.

Why are you comparing these things anyways? In what moral paradigm does aid to the poor and destitute equate with aid to the well off?

Are you suggesting anything with this comparison?

Yea welfare queen is suggesting that he/she didn't think through the premise of the thread very well and is getting their ass kicked.

Why it is ok to give corporate welfare to corporations making billions VS welfare for the poorest among us.

Never entered their mind that the two subject were not "equal". Matter of fact, welfare queen was TRYING to make the point that welfare for corporations was fine cause it doesn't cost nearly as much. Until they were asked to look at all the other "welfare" for corporations.

Then the math wasn't the same and welfare queen bailed out on their own thread.

The end.

Lies are not good. I specifically said I was against Corporate Welfare. So why lie? Is that the only way you think you can win? Also, the math is irrefutable. You have provided no evidence it is false. Yet another lie. Sad lying little man.

I don't like Corporate Welfare. This thread was not an endorsement of Corporate Welfare. I have no doubt there is tremendous fraud an abuse. I have worked in healthcare for 25 years and I can tell you there is tremendous fraud and abuse in individual welfare.

Kids should never be denied benefits because of irresponsible parents...but able bodied adults...particularly men....I have a real problem with that.

 

[zeke]

Yea that Halliburton was sure good at what they do. Remember when they were electrocuting soldiers in the showers in Iraq. They couldn't hook up the pump correctly and ended up killing a couple soldiers and injuring others. Or maybe when the soldiers didn't have the fresh water that Halliburton was supposed to provide.

Whew. They sure are good and deserving of that no bid contract. And the soldiers couldn't even sue them for anything they did. Now that's protection.

Yes.. because other companies do not have tragic mistakes by employees or whatever

Fact is with Haliburton (which you and your ilk just harp on because of the name Cheney), nobody else could do what was needed on the scale and timeframe.. there was not an option for another company to start up a whole new division, a whole new set of logistics, etc...

Much like my company.. you expect us to wait for another company to be able to deal with the installation of the technology to have a bid, or do it now without bid 6-12 months before our competition and gain even more advantage??

You sir, are an idiot

No Davy. You are the idiot. You just trivialized the death of American soldiers to justify a no bid contractors fuck up. Fuck you davy.

Why wasn't the Army providing for its own (like they have done forever). It was because Cheney wanted his old company to have those no bid contracts worth billions.

What a fuking tool you are.

 

[RightDown]

SS and medicare aren't in the totals, Dullard. The OP even points that out in the quote you created but didn't read.

you're welcome.

Read my response you toad. There's a component to SS that is arguably"Welfare" that should be included. And AFDC dissolved back in '96.

I have to explain SS and Medicare b/c dolts like you have no understanding. B/c taxes are theft and there is no society and dop dop dop dop dop dop.