Corporate Welfare versus Invidual Welfare. Which Costs Taxpayers the Most?

[WelfareQueen]

SSI is SS. But that's excluded. Except it's included. But AFDC is definitely included. But it hasn't existed for 17 years.

This must be a rightwing libertarian thread.

Give it dude. Your just spinning in circles now.

While SSI is funded through general funds, not the SS trust, making it a separate entity, he does bring a valid point regarding AFDC, which is now known as TANF. It's a solid catch to call that out. Unless you can provide clarity on where AFDC and TANF are both used and separate.

I used AFDC interchangably with TANF. I called it AFDC back in the day. It is now known as TANF. Doesn't change the numbers or the facts.

 

[bendog]

Is a no bid contract to a favored corporation qualify as welfare? No, but it should.

And do you have any idea why corporations (that have been making billions of dollars) why do we spend a dime on a corporation that is doing very well? do you know?

And did you know that those hated welfare funds going to individuals and families are.....wait for it......
among the poorest people in the country.

See the difference? Corporations are very rich and the bottom third of our population is very poor.

Who you think should get the welfare? I know. You want the corporations to have your money.

I made no moral argument. You are. I just provided data. The facts speak for themselves. Corporate welfare costs are a tiny fraction of individual welfare costs. One more talking point destroyed. I feel my work is done here.

bullshit. The op was an attempt to draw an equilvancy of moral or social benefit.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Is a no bid contract to a favored corporation qualify as welfare? No, but it should.

And do you have any idea why corporations (that have been making billions of dollars) why do we spend a dime on a corporation that is doing very well? do you know?

And did you know that those hated welfare funds going to individuals and families are.....wait for it......
among the poorest people in the country.

See the difference? Corporations are very rich and the bottom third of our population is very poor.

Who you think should get the welfare? I know. You want the corporations to have your money.

I made no moral argument. You are. I just provided data. The facts speak for themselves. Corporate welfare costs are a tiny fraction of individual welfare costs. One more talking point destroyed. I feel my work is done here.

bullshit. The op was an attempt to draw an equilvancy of moral or social benefit.

Bullshit. I explicitly said I do not like or approval of Corporate welfare. Read more carefully. I made the point multiple times.

I don't like Corporate Welfare. This thread was not an endorsement of Corporate Welfare. I have no doubt there is tremendous fraud an abuse. I have worked in healthcare for 25 years and I can tell you there is tremendous fraud and abuse in individual welfare.

Kids should never be denied benefits because of irresponsible parents...but able bodied adults...particularly men....I have a real problem with that.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Economics, much like logic and reason, are devoid of a moral implication. Value judgments in these realms are entirely based on individual perspective. Claiming that the OP was trying to draw a moral connection between one form of welfare to another, doesn't pass the logic test. The OP simply points out where more is spent, destroying a LOLberal meme regarding corporate welfare dominating expenditure in the welfare arena.

 

[dblack]

Economics, much like logic and reason, are devoid of a moral implication. Value judgments in these realms are entirely based on individual perspective. Claiming that the OP was trying to draw a moral connection between one form of welfare to another, doesn't pass the logic test. The OP simply points out where more is spent, destroying a LOLberal meme regarding corporate welfare dominating expenditure in the welfare arena.

The tricky thing is defining 'corporate welfare'. Do we count defense spending pork? And there non-monetary considerations. While starting a war to defend oil interests isn't, necessarily, a subsidy - it sure as hell costs us, in lives and money, and benefits various corporate interests.

I just don't think it's a matter of looking at the balance sheet.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Economics, much like logic and reason, are devoid of a moral implication. Value judgments in these realms are entirely based on individual perspective. Claiming that the OP was trying to draw a moral connection between one form of welfare to another, doesn't pass the logic test. The OP simply points out where more is spent, destroying a LOLberal meme regarding corporate welfare dominating expenditure in the welfare arena.

The tricky thing is defining 'corporate welfare'. Do we count defense spending pork? And there non-monetary considerations. While starting a war to defend oil interests isn't, necessarily, a subsidy - it sure as hell costs us, in lives and money, and benefits various corporate interests.

I just don't think it's a matter of looking at the balance sheet.

You bring up a valid point. The generally accepted definition of Corporate welfare is a direct subsidy. There are obviously other forms of Government patronage to Corporations that are not direct subsidies. This article attempts to define it. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it helps, welfare for individuals are also defined as direct subsidies paid to the individual due to low or non-existent income level. Medicare and Social Security retirement are not defined by the Government as welfare because there is not means testing involved (i.e. payment is not contingent on lack of income).

Hope this helps.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

There are a lot more people than corporations. And since so many corporations moved their jobs to China under Bush and the Republicans helping with corporate subsidies, the GOP created poor need the help.

I know.

I know.

Let 'em die. Thank God most of us don't feel that way. Seems to be limited to one party.

This is why you're widely regarded as one of the dumbest posters here... and as equally dishonest.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Where does the money that "individual welfare" recipients receive go?
How about the corporate welfare?
How much of our military budget is used to protect the assets of corporations?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I don't like Corporate Welfare. This thread was not an endorsement of Corporate Welfare. I have no doubt there is tremendous fraud an abuse. I have worked in healthcare for 25 years and I can tell you there is tremendous fraud and abuse in individual welfare.

Kids should never be denied benefits because of irresponsible parents...but able bodied adults...particularly men....I have a real problem with that.

How many are there?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

What talking point did this kill?

 

[bripat9643]

One of our liberal posters used the phrase "Corporate Welfare" today. We have all heard the term, mostly used by folks on the left, and they use the typical moral equivalency argument. You know..."well maybe we spend a lot on welfare...but those bastard Corporations get Corporate welfare and that is just as much money and it's even worse."

So I had to look it up. How much does "Corporate Welfare" cost we the Taxpayers versus Individual Welfare?


According to the Cato Institute Corporate Welfare costs the U.S. taxpayer $100 billion a year. Self-identified Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders puts the number at $125 billion a year. For the sake of argument...we'll go with Bernie.


Corporate Welfare Costs $125 billion. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Individual Welfare Costs $927 billion. These are programs strictly for the poor. No Medicare or Social Security. This is just for Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, CHIP, Housing Assistance, Energy Cost Assistance, SSI, and TANF

Link: Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States--later (after 2010) expenditures are unknown but higher."[3]



So in summary. The Federal Government spends $125 billion a year in Corporate Welfare. The Federal Government spends $927 billion a year on individual Welfare. Corporate Welfare accounts for 13% of the costs of Individual Welfare. Individual Welfare Costs have gone up 31% over the last 10 years. Corporate Welfare costs have remained flat.


Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

Most of the corporate welfare is in the form of farm subsidies, green energy programs and other spending that the libtards would defend to the hilt.

Their whining about "corporate welfare" is purely hypocritical.

 

[bripat9643]

Economics, much like logic and reason, are devoid of a moral implication. Value judgments in these realms are entirely based on individual perspective. Claiming that the OP was trying to draw a moral connection between one form of welfare to another, doesn't pass the logic test. The OP simply points out where more is spent, destroying a LOLberal meme regarding corporate welfare dominating expenditure in the welfare arena.

The tricky thing is defining 'corporate welfare'. Do we count defense spending pork? And there non-monetary considerations. While starting a war to defend oil interests isn't, necessarily, a subsidy - it sure as hell costs us, in lives and money, and benefits various corporate interests.

I just don't think it's a matter of looking at the balance sheet.

No, the military budget is not "corporate welfare," as much as libturds try to define it that way. We buy fighter planes, bombers and aircraft carriers because we need to have those things to have an effective military. Who do you propose we buy them from if not American defense contractors? And the wars in Iraq were not for the purpose of defending "oil interests." American oil companies didn't make a dime off of either war.

All you're doing is throwing out the usual libturd red herrings in a failed effort to defend our vast welfare budget.

 

[dblack]

Economics, much like logic and reason, are devoid of a moral implication. Value judgments in these realms are entirely based on individual perspective. Claiming that the OP was trying to draw a moral connection between one form of welfare to another, doesn't pass the logic test. The OP simply points out where more is spent, destroying a LOLberal meme regarding corporate welfare dominating expenditure in the welfare arena.

The tricky thing is defining 'corporate welfare'. Do we count defense spending pork? And there non-monetary considerations. While starting a war to defend oil interests isn't, necessarily, a subsidy - it sure as hell costs us, in lives and money, and benefits various corporate interests.

I just don't think it's a matter of looking at the balance sheet.

No, the military budget is not "corporate welfare," as much as libturds try to define it that way. We buy fighter planes, bombers and aircraft carriers because we need to have those things to have an effective military. Who do you propose we buy them from if not American defense contractors? And the wars in Iraq were not for the purpose of defending "oil interests." American oil companies didn't make a dime off of either war.

All you're doing is throwing out the usual libturd red herrings in a failed effort to defend our vast welfare budget.

So, Eisenhower was just a whack job then?

 

[kaz]

Hmmm, let's see...if we took away corporate welfare the corporations would be "hurt", right?

Dec 2012:

In the third quarter, corporate earnings were $1.75 trillion, up 18.6% from a year ago, according to last week'si gross domestic product report. That took after-tax profits to their greatest percentage of GDP in history.

I'm sure they'd be devastated.

The lie you're implying is that Democrats want individual welfare and fiscal conservatives want corporate welfare and that's what we're debating. Actually, fiscal conservatives want free markets. Corporate welfare is a variation of socialism, it's centralized planning.

If by no bid contracts, you mean earmarks, they are flat out armed robbery. And guess what honey, fiscal conservatives are totally opposed to them. It's you and RINOs who love them. You use it to buy influence.

 

[kaz]

The tricky thing is defining 'corporate welfare'. Do we count defense spending pork? And there non-monetary considerations. While starting a war to defend oil interests isn't, necessarily, a subsidy - it sure as hell costs us, in lives and money, and benefits various corporate interests.

I just don't think it's a matter of looking at the balance sheet.

No, the military budget is not "corporate welfare," as much as libturds try to define it that way. We buy fighter planes, bombers and aircraft carriers because we need to have those things to have an effective military. Who do you propose we buy them from if not American defense contractors? And the wars in Iraq were not for the purpose of defending "oil interests." American oil companies didn't make a dime off of either war.

All you're doing is throwing out the usual libturd red herrings in a failed effort to defend our vast welfare budget.

So, Eisenhower was just a whack job then?

I'm not sure what the Eisenhower reference is to. But you did say military pork, not all military spending, so I'm not sure what bripat is objecting to.

It's pathetic when Congress forces bases to remain open and weapons systems to be funded that the military doesn't want because it's not the most efficient use of the money they get, but the plants or bases are in some big congressman or Senators district. That is clearly welfare.

 

[JakeStarkey]

WQ's sums are not truly accurate as we all know.

However, some corporate welfare is certainly: the TARP, for example, was a small expenditure for saving the auto industry (about 3.5% of GDP) and jobs.

Reforming SS is a simple fix, and Medicare/Medicaid work well.

What really needs a reform is the downsizing of DOD by 50% over the next 12 years.

 

[Vox]

it has been known for a long time that leftards fairy tales about corporate welfare is just that - fairy tales.

That said, I think we all are long overdue of the tax overhaul, because any tax code eventually deteriorates as the lobbying industry never tires to work.

And social welfare is long overdue for the overhaul as well - it is a disgrace that 40% of what we spend in so called welfare system goes to the system itself - and the number is increasing.

 

[Vox]

One of our liberal posters used the phrase "Corporate Welfare" today. We have all heard the term, mostly used by folks on the left, and they use the typical moral equivalency argument. You know..."well maybe we spend a lot on welfare...but those bastard Corporations get Corporate welfare and that is just as much money and it's even worse."

So I had to look it up. How much does "Corporate Welfare" cost we the Taxpayers versus Individual Welfare?


According to the Cato Institute Corporate Welfare costs the U.S. taxpayer $100 billion a year. Self-identified Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders puts the number at $125 billion a year. For the sake of argument...we'll go with Bernie.


Corporate Welfare Costs $125 billion. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Individual Welfare Costs $927 billion. These are programs strictly for the poor. No Medicare or Social Security. This is just for Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, CHIP, Housing Assistance, Energy Cost Assistance, SSI, and TANF

Link: Social programs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Not including Social Security and Medicare, Congress allocated almost $717 billion in Federal funds in 2010 plus $210 billion was allocated in state funds ($927 billion total) for means tested welfare programs in the United States--later (after 2010) expenditures are unknown but higher."[3]



So in summary. The Federal Government spends $125 billion a year in Corporate Welfare. The Federal Government spends $927 billion a year on individual Welfare. Corporate Welfare accounts for 13% of the costs of Individual Welfare. Individual Welfare Costs have gone up 31% over the last 10 years. Corporate Welfare costs have remained flat.


Hope these facts clear things up for everyone and kill yet another phony talking point. Your welcome.

Most of the corporate welfare is in the form of farm subsidies, green energy programs and other spending that the libtards would defend to the hilt.

Their whining about "corporate welfare" is purely hypocritical.

THIS

 

[bripat9643]

If you make "no moral judgement" then why the fuck post the information?

All anyone has to do is read a couple of your posts to figure out that you loves you some corporate welfare and hate you some individual welfare.

So is a no bid government contract corporate welfare. No moral judgement to be made. Just a simple question. It a "yes" or a "no".

See how easy that was.
How many dollars can you add to corporate welfare if you add in no bid contracts? How much corporate welfare for government contractors with a time and material bid? You know, those bids that start out reasonable that balloon into billions and billions of cost overruns. That no one in the government says a thing about.

And when does corporate welfare cut off? Hell people loose their benefits in a matter of months or a couple years.

The defense contractors and mega farms have had their corporate welfare for decades.

You were going to try and kick some poor people while they are down again. Gee. Why am I not surprised.

I'll play. You seem obsessed with no-bid Government contracts. Do you mean Healthcare.gov?

Absolutely I mean any corporate welfare. One of the most stupid mistakes the Obama admin has made.

Now your turn. Which corporation that receives corporate welfare do you think was a mistake? Was it Halliburton? Boeing? Archer Daniels Midland.

Which one of those do you hate that they receive yours and my money?

And those "no bid" contracts are welfare.

Boeing and Halliburton don't receive corporate welfare, douche nozzle. A defense contract is not welfare, no matter how much libturds may despise it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

it has been known for a long time that leftards fairy tales about corporate welfare is just that - fairy tales.

That said, I think we all are long overdue of the tax overhaul, because any tax code eventually deteriorates as the lobbying industry never tires to work.

And social welfare is long overdue for the overhaul as well - it is a disgrace that 40% of what we spend in so called welfare system goes to the system itself - and the number is increasing.

Corporate Welfare doesnt exist?