Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[Dr Grump]

Yes, because New Zealand has taken home many Nobel Prizes in science and art.
Oh, maybe they didnt. Three. And one was over 100 years ago.

It's because New Zealand ranks top in economic growth.
OK, it ranks 131, below average for the world, btw.

OK, it's because NZ enjoys top life expectancy.
Well, not really. They rank behind France and Israel.

It's because those generous New Zealanders contribute so much to under-priveleged countries in the third World.
Well, all right. Ya got me. They don't contribute anything, at least not in the top 26.

All right. Here it is. The reason why New Zealand is so great:
They have more sheep per capita than any other country. This is why the people are so happy, ranking #18 in satisfaction.
A nation of sheep-fuckers. That's what they are.
Hey, leave Bah-Bah alone and get to work, ya slackers. Your tax rates are among the highest in the world, higher than Bulgaria and Serbia.

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, because New Zealand has taken home many Nobel Prizes in science and art.
Oh, maybe they didnt. Three. And one was over 100 years ago.

It's because New Zealand ranks top in economic growth.
OK, it ranks 131, below average for the world, btw.

OK, it's because NZ enjoys top life expectancy.
Well, not really. They rank behind France and Israel.

It's because those generous New Zealanders contribute so much to under-priveleged countries in the third World.
Well, all right. Ya got me. They don't contribute anything, at least not in the top 26.

All right. Here it is. The reason why New Zealand is so great:
They have more sheep per capita than any other country. This is why the people are so happy, ranking #18 in satisfaction.
A nation of sheep-fuckers. That's what they are.
Hey, leave Bah-Bah alone and get to work, ya slackers. Your tax rates are among the highest in the world, higher than Bulgaria and Serbia.

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

Yeah, you don't know because I don't have a short tail and wooly back.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yes, because New Zealand has taken home many Nobel Prizes in science and art.
Oh, maybe they didnt. Three. And one was over 100 years ago.

It's because New Zealand ranks top in economic growth.
OK, it ranks 131, below average for the world, btw.

OK, it's because NZ enjoys top life expectancy.
Well, not really. They rank behind France and Israel.

It's because those generous New Zealanders contribute so much to under-priveleged countries in the third World.
Well, all right. Ya got me. They don't contribute anything, at least not in the top 26.

All right. Here it is. The reason why New Zealand is so great:
They have more sheep per capita than any other country. This is why the people are so happy, ranking #18 in satisfaction.
A nation of sheep-fuckers. That's what they are.
Hey, leave Bah-Bah alone and get to work, ya slackers. Your tax rates are among the highest in the world, higher than Bulgaria and Serbia.

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

Yeah, you don't know because I don't have a short tail and wooly back.

And I bet you get a hard on just thinking about it.

For a start our life expectancy is the SAME as Israel's and higher than the US.

That aside, why would a country of just over 4 million people have a long history of Nobel prize winners. Then again, one of them was Ernest Rutherford who only split the fucking atom....but nevermind.

That aside, I never said NZ was great. Great is not the same as best. And the criteria you are using is so skewed, it doesn't matter.

I've practically ignored you up until the past few days, and the more I engage with you, I realise I'm dealing with somebody who is not too bright, and probably in the 18-20 year age bracket (and low in the maturity stakes in those brackets, too - you might in fact be a little younger)

So, while I find this aspect of the debate fascinating, it is only so when I engage with the likes of Bern and others of his ilk who are actually interested in debating.

Consider your dumb, ignorant, lying, pathetic arse, on ignore.

Tally ho...



....Fucktard.....

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

Yeah, you don't know because I don't have a short tail and wooly back.

And I bet you get a hard on just thinking about it.

For a start our life expectancy is the SAME as Israel's and higher than the US.

That aside, why would a country of just over 4 million people have a long history of Nobel prize winners. Then again, one of them was Ernest Rutherford who only split the fucking atom....but nevermind.

That aside, I never said NZ was great. Great is not the same as best. And the criteria you are using is so skewed, it doesn't matter.

I've practically ignored you up until the past few days, and the more I engage with you, I realise I'm dealing with somebody who is not too bright, and probably in the 18-20 year age bracket (and low in the maturity stakes in those brackets, too - you might in fact be a little younger)

So, while I find this aspect of the debate fascinating, it is only so when I engage with the likes of Bern and others of his ilk who are actually interested in debating.

Consider your dumb, ignorant, lying, pathetic arse, on ignore.

Tally ho...



....Fucktard.....

Does scrapies rot the brain? Is it sexually transmitted? If so, it would explain many of your posts, which are poorly worded and factually incorrect.
I hope someone has discovered a cure for scrapies. Of course you'd probably have to go to the U.S. for treatment, since we have the most advanced medical care in the world.

 

[Bfgrn]

Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

Let's ask our founding fathers who created a GOVERNMENT.

A word that appears nowhere in the Constitution is "corporation," for the writers had no interest in using for-profit corporations to run their new government. In colonial times, corporations were tools of the king's oppression, chartered for the purpose of exploiting the so-called "New World" and shoveling wealth back into Europe. The rich formed joint-stock corporations to distribute the enormous risk of colonizing the Americas and gave them names like the Hudson Bay Company, the British East India Company, and the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Because they were so far from their sovereign - the king - the agents for these corporations had a lot of autonomy to do their work; they could pass laws, levy taxes, and even raise armies to manage and control property and commerce. They were not popular with the colonists.

So the Constitution's authors left control of corporations to state legislatures (10th Amendment), where they would get the closest supervision by the people.

Early corporate charters were explicit about what a corporation could do, how, for how long, with whom, where, and when.

1) Corporations could not own stock in other corporations,
2) They were prohibited from any part of the political process.
3) Individual stockholders were held personally liable for any harms done in the name of the corporation
4) Most charters only lasted for 10 or 15 years.
5) Corporations had to represent a clear benefit for the public good

And when corporations violated any of these terms, their charters were frequently revoked by the state legislatures.
Abolish Corporate Personhood


The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

 

[Ava]

If I thought you were serious, I'd debate you and eat your lunch..... but alas, all you want to do is demonize Conservatives, and praise big gov't.

Waste of my VALUABLE time..... thanks, but no thanks!

I agree. I don't like to spend my time, wasting it..

 

[Liberty]

Yes, because New Zealand has taken home many Nobel Prizes in science and art.
Oh, maybe they didnt. Three. And one was over 100 years ago.

It's because New Zealand ranks top in economic growth.
OK, it ranks 131, below average for the world, btw.

OK, it's because NZ enjoys top life expectancy.
Well, not really. They rank behind France and Israel.

It's because those generous New Zealanders contribute so much to under-priveleged countries in the third World.
Well, all right. Ya got me. They don't contribute anything, at least not in the top 26.

All right. Here it is. The reason why New Zealand is so great:
They have more sheep per capita than any other country. This is why the people are so happy, ranking #18 in satisfaction.
A nation of sheep-fuckers. That's what they are.
Hey, leave Bah-Bah alone and get to work, ya slackers. Your tax rates are among the highest in the world, higher than Bulgaria and Serbia.

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

really? I'm pretty sure he just ripped you a new asshole.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, because New Zealand has taken home many Nobel Prizes in science and art.
Oh, maybe they didnt. Three. And one was over 100 years ago.

It's because New Zealand ranks top in economic growth.
OK, it ranks 131, below average for the world, btw.

OK, it's because NZ enjoys top life expectancy.
Well, not really. They rank behind France and Israel.

It's because those generous New Zealanders contribute so much to under-priveleged countries in the third World.
Well, all right. Ya got me. They don't contribute anything, at least not in the top 26.

All right. Here it is. The reason why New Zealand is so great:
They have more sheep per capita than any other country. This is why the people are so happy, ranking #18 in satisfaction.
A nation of sheep-fuckers. That's what they are.
Hey, leave Bah-Bah alone and get to work, ya slackers. Your tax rates are among the highest in the world, higher than Bulgaria and Serbia.

Oh boy, I don't even know where to start spanking your ignorant arse... I really don't....

really? I'm pretty sure he just ripped you a new asshole.

He'd tingle at the idea. Baaa Baaa...

 

[Urkie]

Nice little quote from every conservatives favorite or one of their favorite presidents, Abraham Lincoln.

"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed."

You see, even Abe Lincoln could see the danger of the corporation...

 

[Dr Grump]

really? I'm pretty sure he just ripped you a new asshole.

Yeah, but I bet you think Ronnie Raygun was the second coming, too, or that Ann the Man Coultergeist is a 'babe'...so your opinion is noted, and easily dismissed...

 

[The Rabbi]

really? I'm pretty sure he just ripped you a new asshole.

Yeah, but I bet you think Ronnie Raygun was the second coming, too, or that Ann the Man Coultergeist is a 'babe'...so your opinion is noted, and easily dismissed...

C'mon Grump. Is that the best you can do? Has scrapies robbed you of any cognitive ability at all?
Put the ewe down and come back for more. Baa.Baaa.Baaaaa.

 

[rhet 2]

Want to see the difference between private initiative and government "take care of it"?

Just look at British teeth on the telly -- courtesy of 'crat efficiency and "do gooderism"

Which would you rather trust, a dentist who has a damned good reason to get it right -- or a gubmit goonie bird who gets paid regardless of how shabby his dental "work" gets?

 

[JakeStarkey]

rhet, that is the best you can do? Come to the South, son, and you will see the British look great compared to folks in the Carolinas.

 

[midcan5]

You are not getting it. You contend over and over that without regulation busienss will exploit people. Both its employees and its customers. I dont' know hwo more plain to make it....

....Because some businesses are corrupt and some fail, that proves capitilism doesn't work? Of course it doesn't. In fact that those businesses fail proves it DOES work. That's what is suppossed to happen to businesses that aren't run well under capitlism. If capitlism had been allowed to run it's course instead of government intervening and bailing out those businesses are economy would be much stronger for it....

If there were no regulation do you really think the world of business would be peaches and cream? You need to get outside and see a bit of reality. All the examples in the Forbes piece give a lie to the utopian idea that people self regulate themselves. If failure only meant the business failed that would be one thing, but the consequences are loss of income, livelihood, sickness, and death if safeguards are not instituted. I've seen corporate America for a long time up close and personal, so I cannot buy into your dream world.

The American Conservative -- Marxism of the Right

"...[L]ibertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society."

 

[The Rabbi]

Kudos for pointing out that Marxism and LIbertarianism are first cousins intellectually.

But with gov't regulation the result is that businesses are not started, do not prosper, and go under because of costs of taxation and compliance. This robs workers of alternative sources of employment, lowering wages and working conditions.

 

[Bern80]

If there were no regulation do you really think the world of business would be peaches and cream? You need to get outside and see a bit of reality. All the examples in the Forbes piece give a lie to the utopian idea that people self regulate themselves. If failure only meant the business failed that would be one thing, but the consequences are loss of income, livelihood, sickness, and death if safeguards are not instituted. I've seen corporate America for a long time up close and personal, so I cannot buy into your dream world.

I believe what I believe because of reality. My father owned and ran a business just fine. And I can't say that I can complain about how any employer has ever treated me. I am not living in a dream world.

This is reality: Government has set the bar at a certain point as far as how businesses must treat people. The majority of businesses compensate people above what the bar requires. They pay people more than min wage. They provide vacation time and benefits. That is why I maintain that this notion that business will screw people whenever legally possible I find completely bogus because it simply isn't happening on any large scale.

"...[L]ibertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society."

I would say this person's opinion rests on a faulty presumption. I don't see that selfishness is an inherent trait of being a libertarian. Saying I want government to basically leave me alone and be unobtrusive and have limited powers is not being selfish. There is nothing in libertarian philosophy that advocates people be selfish as oppossed to generous. Libertarianism says it's your life and their is nothing wrong with being as selfish or generous as you please.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If there were no regulation do you really think the world of business would be peaches and cream? You need to get outside and see a bit of reality. All the examples in the Forbes piece give a lie to the utopian idea that people self regulate themselves. If failure only meant the business failed that would be one thing, but the consequences are loss of income, livelihood, sickness, and death if safeguards are not instituted. I've seen corporate America for a long time up close and personal, so I cannot buy into your dream world.

I believe what I believe because of reality. My father owned and ran a business just fine. And I can't say that I can complain about how any employer has ever treated me. I am not living in a dream world.

This is reality: Government has set the bar at a certain point as far as how businesses must treat people. The majority of businesses compensate people above what the bar requires. They pay people more than min wage. They provide vacation time and benefits. That is why I maintain that this notion that business will screw people whenever legally possible I find completely bogus because it simply isn't happening on any large scale.

"...[L]ibertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right. If Marxism is the delusion that one can run society purely on altruism and collectivism, then libertarianism is the mirror-image delusion that one can run it purely on selfishness and individualism. Society in fact requires both individualism and collectivism, both selfishness and altruism, to function. Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics. And like Marxism, it has its historical myths and a genius for making its followers feel like an elect unbound by the moral rules of their society."

I would say this person's opinion rests on a faulty presumption. I don't see that selfishness is an inherent trait of being a libertarian. Saying I want government to basically leave me alone and be unobtrusive and have limited powers is not being selfish. There is nothing in libertarian philosophy that advocates people be selfish as oppossed to generous. Libertarianism says it's your life and their is nothing wrong with being as selfish or generous as you please.

You misunderstand the presumption is all. To want to be left alone regardless of just how what you do affects others is selfishness and abandonment of the social compact. No one cares what you do as long as it does not affect others, and that is the part you don't see.

 

[Bern80]

You misunderstand the presumption is all. To want to be left alone regardless of just how what you do affects others is selfishness and abandonment of the social compact. No one cares what you do as long as it does not affect others, and that is the part you don't see.

I stated no such thing. In fact I agree with the last part that people ought be able to do pretty much what they want up until their choices negatively impact others doing the same. That is pretty much what libertarians stand for and I don't find that selfish in any way.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Go ahead. Please see if you can find corporate killings which exceed 169B.

Extra points for photos of corporation gas chambers, gulags, and mass graves.

What a comical attempt at an argument.

The fact that it produces unsubstantive rebuttals such as yours suggests it a pretty good one. It directly addresses the original OP regarding who should one trust. History tells us who that should be. Past actions tell us how much we should people and institutions with our well being. Unless you want to argue the numbers presented, historically speaking governments have clearly not had the well being of their citizens at heart. Can you you show even remotely comparable numbers from a corporation? Of course you can't. This is what happens when reality smacks someone with a contrary belief square in the head. It demands a response from you of some type, but you know you can't argue it with facts. And so we get treated to verbal diarhea like your response here.

Can I have a list of the things our government has done that apply to your list of atrocities?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Go ahead. Please see if you can find corporate killings which exceed 169B.

Extra points for photos of corporation gas chambers, gulags, and mass graves.

What a comical attempt at an argument.

When has ugly truth you wish to dismiss become comedy? Oh...Just now. Way to hide your head in the sand.

Materful admitted job.

Ok, you tell me about U.S. government run gas chambers and gulags.