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Bern80 can offer no proof for what he argues. Governments, hopefully, rein in business excesses. Business does its darnedest to corrupt and pull down government in order to make the people scream. Neither Bern nor Boedicca can answer the insidious synergy of German fascism and German capitalism that led to industrialized mass murder.
Weasel there isn't a debate on this one. What you believe to be true of business is observarbley and by in large not true.
Follow along now weasel; if what you say is true, that businesses would treat people as poorly as possible if not for government regulation, then the reality right now should be that business should be doing absolutely no more than what government requires of them in terms of employee compensation. Please explain to all of us why, under YOUR argument, businesses are compensating people more than they have to.
Oh we are still waiting for your evidence that Hitler wasn't really evil he was just corrupted by evil corporations into killing a few million people.
You misunderstand the presumption is all. To want to be left alone regardless of just how what you do affects others is selfishness and abandonment of the social compact. No one cares what you do as long as it does not affect others, and that is the part you don't see.
I stated no such thing. In fact I agree with the last part that people ought be able to do pretty much what they want up until their choices negatively impact others doing the same. That is pretty much what libertarians stand for and I don't find that selfish in any way.
What a comical attempt at an argument.
The fact that it produces unsubstantive rebuttals such as yours suggests it a pretty good one. It directly addresses the original OP regarding who should one trust. History tells us who that should be. Past actions tell us how much we should people and institutions with our well being. Unless you want to argue the numbers presented, historically speaking governments have clearly not had the well being of their citizens at heart. Can you you show even remotely comparable numbers from a corporation? Of course you can't. This is what happens when reality smacks someone with a contrary belief square in the head. It demands a response from you of some type, but you know you can't argue it with facts. And so we get treated to verbal diarhea like your response here.
Can I have a list of the things our government has done that apply to your list of atrocities?
You misunderstand the presumption is all. To want to be left alone regardless of just how what you do affects others is selfishness and abandonment of the social compact. No one cares what you do as long as it does not affect others, and that is the part you don't see.
I stated no such thing. In fact I agree with the last part that people ought be able to do pretty much what they want up until their choices negatively impact others doing the same. That is pretty much what libertarians stand for and I don't find that selfish in any way.
I did not say you "stated" any such thing. I said you "misunderstood the presumption." When businesses negatively affect individuals, communities, and the social compact, then they earn being regulated. We the People determine that in our legislatures.
Bern80 can offer no proof for what he argues. Governments, hopefully, rein in business excesses. Business does its darnedest to corrupt and pull down government in order to make the people scream. Neither Bern nor Boedicca can answer the insidious synergy of German fascism and German capitalism that led to industrialized mass murder.
Weasel there isn't a debate on this one. What you believe to be true of business is observarbley and by in large not true.
Follow along now weasel; if what you say is true, that businesses would treat people as poorly as possible if not for government regulation, then the reality right now should be that business should be doing absolutely no more than what government requires of them in terms of employee compensation. Please explain to all of us why, under YOUR argument, businesses are compensating people more than they have to.
Oh we are still waiting for your evidence that Hitler wasn't really evil he was just corrupted by evil corporations into killing a few million people.
Maybe you missed that day in history class, but it was OUR government that put Hitler out of business.
I doubt that waiting around for the corporations to accomplish that would have produced a comparably satisfactory result.
Bern80, you just lost this discussion with the above comments.
You make airy statements, without any evidence or stats or analysis, then sit back and ask others to refute you. No one has to, until you build a case.
And after what everyone has posted, your house of cards, if you build one, will fall apart.
And my pet is waiting for your denials and will suck them dry.
Weasel there isn't a debate on this one. What you believe to be true of business is observarbley and by in large not true.
Follow along now weasel; if what you say is true, that businesses would treat people as poorly as possible if not for government regulation, then the reality right now should be that business should be doing absolutely no more than what government requires of them in terms of employee compensation. Please explain to all of us why, under YOUR argument, businesses are compensating people more than they have to.
Oh we are still waiting for your evidence that Hitler wasn't really evil he was just corrupted by evil corporations into killing a few million people.
Maybe you missed that day in history class, but it was OUR government that put Hitler out of business.
I doubt that waiting around for the corporations to accomplish that would have produced a comparably satisfactory result.
Your idiotic point here is what exactly? No one here has argued that there aren't at least some things that government should be responsible for. Fighting wars in the defense of the country would be one of them.
The fact that it produces unsubstantive rebuttals such as yours suggests it a pretty good one. It directly addresses the original OP regarding who should one trust. History tells us who that should be. Past actions tell us how much we should people and institutions with our well being. Unless you want to argue the numbers presented, historically speaking governments have clearly not had the well being of their citizens at heart. Can you you show even remotely comparable numbers from a corporation? Of course you can't. This is what happens when reality smacks someone with a contrary belief square in the head. It demands a response from you of some type, but you know you can't argue it with facts. And so we get treated to verbal diarhea like your response here.
Can I have a list of the things our government has done that apply to your list of atrocities?
In short your answer to my question is no, you can't come up with anything comparable a corporation has done ? See you don't get to demand answers from me especially when you don't have the balls to answer the ones directed at you first.
Bern80, you just lost this discussion with the above comments.
You make airy statements, without any evidence or stats or analysis, then sit back and ask others to refute you. No one has to, until you build a case.
And after what everyone has posted, your house of cards, if you build one, will fall apart.
And my pet is waiting for your denials and will suck them dry.
You remain a hypocrite weasel. Where is YOUR evidence of anything?
Can I have a list of the things our government has done that apply to your list of atrocities?
In short your answer to my question is no, you can't come up with anything comparable a corporation has done ? See you don't get to demand answers from me especially when you don't have the balls to answer the ones directed at you first.
You haven't shown that our government has done anything you accused it of. I want you to provide the evidence of your claim.
Can I have a list of the things our government has done that apply to your list of atrocities?
In short your answer to my question is no, you can't come up with anything comparable a corporation has done ? See you don't get to demand answers from me especially when you don't have the balls to answer the ones directed at you first.
You haven't shown that our government has done anything you accused it of. I want you to provide the evidence of your claim.
I didn't accuse it of anything in the first place. I said history has shown the governments have been crueler and to far more people than corporations. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Hell we don't even need to make a comparison to anything. History shows that one would simply be unwise to put an abundance of faith and trust in any government.
If we do want to continue to have the debate about corporations vs. government it simply makes sense that corporations would be more trust worthy. Why? Because they are more directly accountable to people. If a corporation screws me, I don't deal with that corporation and said corporation is well aware of the fact that hurting customers probably isn't going to do much to get people to give them their money. Government on the other hand, I don't have a choice. I have to give them money no matter what. If I don't like what this rep or that rep does I have to wait till an election and hope enough people agree with me to get rid of them.
Take a look at the post above yours. Do you think corporations would have just stopped doing those things if the government didn't step in and stop those things from happening? Yeah, the government isn't perfect either. In fact, far from it but at least they look out for people sometimes. It seems like corporations don't really care about their consumer, just profit.
Bern80, you just lost this discussion with the above comments.
You make airy statements, without any evidence or stats or analysis, then sit back and ask others to refute you. No one has to, until you build a case.
And after what everyone has posted, your house of cards, if you build one, will fall apart.
And my pet is waiting for your denials and will suck them dry.
You remain a hypocrite weasel. Where is YOUR evidence of anything?
Bern, don't you understand. I don't have to refute an opinion, but an opinion, such as you have given, does not mean jack shit. Who cares? Give us a case based on evidence, then we can discuss.
Are you four years old?
It 'seems' that way because bad news gets reported and good news doesn't. Our government 'cares' about people to the extent it will get the re-elected and they will lie and say whatever the fuck they think you wanna hear to do it.
No one is arguing that every corporation is altruistic either. The difference between the two is how they are held accountable. It is far easier for the public to hold a business accountable than it is government for the reasons previously stated. Both of those institutions are well aware of that fact. Maybe the better way to look at it is who can get away with less? Government or corporations.
