Corporation vs Government: Who Do You Trust?

[JakeStarkey]

How's this? I don't trust either. But at least corporation's make their intentions transparent. Plus, corporations pay me for my hard work. At this point, the government is taking the money I earn from my hard work and giving it to people who aren't working.

Why the fuck would I trust the government?

Jon if you are saying you don't trust We the People, then I agree. The people have not held government accountable, and the government did not hold the corporations accountable.

 

[Bern80]

You make your claim and you give your evidence to support it. Saying that history proves your point is not evidence, it is a claim. Then you give your evidence. Then those who oppose it give their best shot and evidence.

If you just want to exchange opinions, that's OK, but it doesn't mean anything., To call me a weasel makes me proud, because I ask for evidence and have given you plenty of examples (as have others) why your claim is nonsense. Shoot fire, man, you have not been able to defend libertarianism, that stain on mankind right along with communism.

Okay let's try this step bu step then.

By evidence you mean verifiable facts, correct?

 

[boedicca]

Did corporations give us our Constitution? The very basis for this nation?

Did corporations free the slaves? No, the government freed the slaves over the violent objections of what were the equivalent of the corporations of those times.

Did corporations then give up child labor? No, the government took that corporate practice away from them.

Did corporations voluntarily make their workplaces safe? No, the government forces them to.

Did corporations voluntarily stop polluting the environment? No, the government forces them to.

Did corporations voluntarily start telling us what the fuck they were putting in our food? Our medicines? No, the government forces them to.

And yet, some of you feel it is the government you can't trust more than the corporations.

Amazing.

Please find a corporation that has done something like this:

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

Mao Zedong presided over a regime responsible for the deaths of up to 45 million people

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mr Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history – which has until now remained hidden – has international resonance. "It ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikötter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.


Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News, Books - The Independent

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mao's Great Leap Forward empowered by state corporations.

Mao Zedong presided over a regime empowered by state corporations.

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday, all of which was empowered by state corporations..

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known",empowered by state corporations.

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude, empowered by state corporations..

Mr Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history, was empowered by state corporations.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, all empowered by state corporations.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was empowered by state corporations.

Boedicca has been exposed for very liberally playing with facts to prove her biased presumed conclusion.

Boedicca, you, along with Political Chic, are a weakest link. Dismissed.

 

[The Rabbi]

Mao's Great Leap Forward empowered by state corporations.

Mao Zedong presided over a regime empowered by state corporations.

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday, all of which was empowered by state corporations..

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known",empowered by state corporations.

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude, empowered by state corporations..

Mr Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history, was empowered by state corporations.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, all empowered by state corporations.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was empowered by state corporations.

Boedicca has been exposed for very liberally playing with facts to prove her biased presumed conclusion.

Boedicca, you, along with Political Chic, are a weakest link. Dismissed.

You are every bit as stupid as your avatar.
Note the term "state corporations." Do you understand what that means? Probably not.

But you remain "Jake, King of the Unsubstantiated Statement". The village misses you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did corporations give us our Constitution? The very basis for this nation?

Did corporations free the slaves? No, the government freed the slaves over the violent objections of what were the equivalent of the corporations of those times.

Did corporations then give up child labor? No, the government took that corporate practice away from them.

Did corporations voluntarily make their workplaces safe? No, the government forces them to.

Did corporations voluntarily stop polluting the environment? No, the government forces them to.

Did corporations voluntarily start telling us what the fuck they were putting in our food? Our medicines? No, the government forces them to.

And yet, some of you feel it is the government you can't trust more than the corporations.

Amazing.

Please find a corporation that has done something like this:

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years'

Mao Zedong presided over a regime responsible for the deaths of up to 45 million people

Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.

Mr Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history – which has until now remained hidden – has international resonance. "It ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.

Between 1958 and 1962, a war raged between the peasants and the state; it was a period when a third of all homes in China were destroyed to produce fertiliser and when the nation descended into famine and starvation, Mr Dikötter said.

His book, Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he studied. In them, he found that the members of the rural farming communities were seen by the Party merely as "digits", or a faceless workforce. For those who committed any acts of disobedience, however minor, the punishments were huge.

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.


Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News, Books - The Independent

I'm not in China.

Is your point that totalitarian governments are bad? duh...you want a tootsie roll pop reward for that deep insight?

jeezus christ almighty.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In short your answer to my question is no, you can't come up with anything comparable a corporation has done ? See you don't get to demand answers from me especially when you don't have the balls to answer the ones directed at you first.

You haven't shown that our government has done anything you accused it of. I want you to provide the evidence of your claim.

I didn't accuse it of anything in the first place. I said history has shown the governments have been crueler and to far more people than corporations. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Hell we don't even need to make a comparison to anything. History shows that one would simply be unwise to put an abundance of faith and trust in any government.

If we do want to continue to have the debate about corporations vs. government it simply makes sense that corporations would be more trust worthy. Why? Because they are more directly accountable to people. If a corporation screws me, I don't deal with that corporation and said corporation is well aware of the fact that hurting customers probably isn't going to do much to get people to give them their money. Government on the other hand, I don't have a choice. I have to give them money no matter what. If I don't like what this rep or that rep does I have to wait till an election and hope enough people agree with me to get rid of them.

If corporations, according to you, are so prone to good behaviour, why do we have in this country decade after decade after decade of the PEOPLE'S government having to FORCE the corporations to behave?

Why did we have to force an end to the BUSINESS PRACTICE of child labor? Why weren't businesses forced by the market, or compelled by their own sense of decency, to end that practice?

and on and on and on...

 

[The Rabbi]

You haven't shown that our government has done anything you accused it of. I want you to provide the evidence of your claim.

I didn't accuse it of anything in the first place. I said history has shown the governments have been crueler and to far more people than corporations. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Hell we don't even need to make a comparison to anything. History shows that one would simply be unwise to put an abundance of faith and trust in any government.

If we do want to continue to have the debate about corporations vs. government it simply makes sense that corporations would be more trust worthy. Why? Because they are more directly accountable to people. If a corporation screws me, I don't deal with that corporation and said corporation is well aware of the fact that hurting customers probably isn't going to do much to get people to give them their money. Government on the other hand, I don't have a choice. I have to give them money no matter what. If I don't like what this rep or that rep does I have to wait till an election and hope enough people agree with me to get rid of them.

If corporations, according to you, are so prone to good behaviour, why do we have in this country decade after decade after decade of the PEOPLE'S government having to FORCE the corporations to behave?

Why did we have to force an end to the BUSINESS PRACTICE of child labor? Why weren't businesses forced by the market, or compelled by their own sense of decency, to end that practice?

and on and on and on...

They are "forced" only in the sense that gov't wants control over them. Please list the practices that govt laws have prevented. No law prevented Enron, despite the existence of many many laws. No law prevented the MBS market meltdown, despite morgages and securities being very tightly regulated.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm.
People can enter the workforce at 14 I believe. How many companies employ 14 year olds?

 

[Bfgrn]

I didn't accuse it of anything in the first place. I said history has shown the governments have been crueler and to far more people than corporations. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Hell we don't even need to make a comparison to anything. History shows that one would simply be unwise to put an abundance of faith and trust in any government.

If we do want to continue to have the debate about corporations vs. government it simply makes sense that corporations would be more trust worthy. Why? Because they are more directly accountable to people. If a corporation screws me, I don't deal with that corporation and said corporation is well aware of the fact that hurting customers probably isn't going to do much to get people to give them their money. Government on the other hand, I don't have a choice. I have to give them money no matter what. If I don't like what this rep or that rep does I have to wait till an election and hope enough people agree with me to get rid of them.

If corporations, according to you, are so prone to good behaviour, why do we have in this country decade after decade after decade of the PEOPLE'S government having to FORCE the corporations to behave?

Why did we have to force an end to the BUSINESS PRACTICE of child labor? Why weren't businesses forced by the market, or compelled by their own sense of decency, to end that practice?

and on and on and on...

They are "forced" only in the sense that gov't wants control over them. Please list the practices that govt laws have prevented. No law prevented Enron, despite the existence of many many laws. No law prevented the MBS market meltdown, despite morgages and securities being very tightly regulated.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm.
People can enter the workforce at 14 I believe. How many companies employ 14 year olds?

How nice Rabbi, you and Mao share the same philosophy... the philosophy of 'fuck you' kids.

"Forms of child labor, including indentured servitude and child slavery, have existed throughout American history. As industrialization moved workers from farms and home workshops into urban areas and factory work, children were often preferred, because factory owners viewed them as more manageable, cheaper, and less likely to strike. Growing opposition to child labor in the North caused many factories to move to the South. By 1900, states varied considerably in whether they had child labor standards and in their content and degree of enforcement. By then, American children worked in large numbers in mines, glass factories, textiles, agriculture, canneries, home industries, and as newsboys, messengers, bootblacks, and peddlers.

In the early decades of the twentieth century, the numbers of child laborers in the U.S. peaked. Child labor began to decline as the labor and reform movements grew and labor standards in general began improving, increasing the political power of working people and other social reformers to demand legislation regulating child labor. Union organizing and child labor reform were often intertwined, and common initiatives were conducted by organizations led by working women and middle class consumers, such as state Consumers’ Leagues and Working Women’s Societies. These organizations generated the National Consumers’ League in 1899 and the National Child Labor Committee in 1904, which shared goals of challenging child labor, including through anti-sweatshop campaigns and labeling programs. The National Child Labor Committee’s work to end child labor was combined with efforts to provide free, compulsory education for all children, and culminated in the passage of the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938, which set federal standards for child labor."
http://www.continuetolearn. uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_la bor/about/us_history.html

Brought to you by the party of 'fuck you Mao & his cohort Rabbi'

President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the Fair Labor Standards Act, which includes limits on many forms of child labor.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I didn't accuse it of anything in the first place. I said history has shown the governments have been crueler and to far more people than corporations. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Hell we don't even need to make a comparison to anything. History shows that one would simply be unwise to put an abundance of faith and trust in any government.

If we do want to continue to have the debate about corporations vs. government it simply makes sense that corporations would be more trust worthy. Why? Because they are more directly accountable to people. If a corporation screws me, I don't deal with that corporation and said corporation is well aware of the fact that hurting customers probably isn't going to do much to get people to give them their money. Government on the other hand, I don't have a choice. I have to give them money no matter what. If I don't like what this rep or that rep does I have to wait till an election and hope enough people agree with me to get rid of them.

If corporations, according to you, are so prone to good behaviour, why do we have in this country decade after decade after decade of the PEOPLE'S government having to FORCE the corporations to behave?

Why did we have to force an end to the BUSINESS PRACTICE of child labor? Why weren't businesses forced by the market, or compelled by their own sense of decency, to end that practice?

and on and on and on...

They are "forced" only in the sense that gov't wants control over them. Please list the practices that govt laws have prevented. No law prevented Enron, despite the existence of many many laws. No law prevented the MBS market meltdown, despite morgages and securities being very tightly regulated.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm.
People can enter the workforce at 14 I believe. How many companies employ 14 year olds?

lol, jeezus. Eventually it all comes out, doesn't it. So the Rabbi is pro-child labor, and probably reflecting an opinion widely held by the rightwingers on this board, except most of them either don't dare or are at least smart enough not to reveal that sentiment.

So, prostitution being legal in Nevada, I guess that would make the Rabbi pro-child prostitution?

lol. How many of the Rabbi's pals want to support him on that?

Sign in please..

 

[JakeStarkey]

NYCarbineer has put The Rabbi and Boedicca's nonsense to put. They won't come back.

 

[Liberty]

I'm sure no one supports chlid slavery...

but a kid working to make a few bucks of his own free will is a good thing isnt it?

 

[The Rabbi]

If corporations, according to you, are so prone to good behaviour, why do we have in this country decade after decade after decade of the PEOPLE'S government having to FORCE the corporations to behave?

Why did we have to force an end to the BUSINESS PRACTICE of child labor? Why weren't businesses forced by the market, or compelled by their own sense of decency, to end that practice?

and on and on and on...

They are "forced" only in the sense that gov't wants control over them. Please list the practices that govt laws have prevented. No law prevented Enron, despite the existence of many many laws. No law prevented the MBS market meltdown, despite morgages and securities being very tightly regulated.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm.
People can enter the workforce at 14 I believe. How many companies employ 14 year olds?

lol, jeezus. Eventually it all comes out, doesn't it. So the Rabbi is pro-child labor, and probably reflecting an opinion widely held by the rightwingers on this board, except most of them either don't dare or are at least smart enough not to reveal that sentiment.

So, prostitution being legal in Nevada, I guess that would make the Rabbi pro-child prostitution?

lol. How many of the Rabbi's pals want to support him on that?

Sign in please..

You haven't answered the question. Are you capable of doing so?

 

[rattlesnk]

I know who I'd want watching my back in battle, the US Military, there are parts of the Government that most everyone loves and i put my trust in the American soldier before i would trust a CEO of any corporation

 

[NYcarbineer]

They are "forced" only in the sense that gov't wants control over them. Please list the practices that govt laws have prevented. No law prevented Enron, despite the existence of many many laws. No law prevented the MBS market meltdown, despite morgages and securities being very tightly regulated.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm.
People can enter the workforce at 14 I believe. How many companies employ 14 year olds?

lol, jeezus. Eventually it all comes out, doesn't it. So the Rabbi is pro-child labor, and probably reflecting an opinion widely held by the rightwingers on this board, except most of them either don't dare or are at least smart enough not to reveal that sentiment.

So, prostitution being legal in Nevada, I guess that would make the Rabbi pro-child prostitution?

lol. How many of the Rabbi's pals want to support him on that?

Sign in please..

You haven't answered the question. Are you capable of doing so?

Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm

The premise is false. I can't answer a question that requires me to accept a false premise. That is called begging the question. It is a logical fallacy. You would know that if you had gotten an education, but since, apparently, you were working in a coal mine from the time you were 8 years old,

that didn't occur.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What is wrong with child labor? Go study with the child labor laws were passed. What a stupid butt statement, The Rabbi, from you.

 

[The Rabbi]

lol, jeezus. Eventually it all comes out, doesn't it. So the Rabbi is pro-child labor, and probably reflecting an opinion widely held by the rightwingers on this board, except most of them either don't dare or are at least smart enough not to reveal that sentiment.

So, prostitution being legal in Nevada, I guess that would make the Rabbi pro-child prostitution?

lol. How many of the Rabbi's pals want to support him on that?

Sign in please..

You haven't answered the question. Are you capable of doing so?

Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm

The premise is false. I can't answer a question that requires me to accept a false premise. That is called begging the question. It is a logical fallacy. You would know that if you had gotten an education, but since, apparently, you were working in a coal mine from the time you were 8 years old,

that didn't occur.

There is no false premise.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor.
If you can't make an argument at least say you don't know or can't and we can go from there.

 

[The Rabbi]

What is wrong with child labor? Go study with the child labor laws were passed. What a stupid butt statement, The Rabbi, from you.

Please state precisely what is wrong with child labor.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You haven't answered the question. Are you capable of doing so?

Please spell out what is wrong with child labor. Keep in mind at the time it was prevalent the alternative was hard work for no wages on the family farm

The premise is false. I can't answer a question that requires me to accept a false premise. That is called begging the question. It is a logical fallacy. You would know that if you had gotten an education, but since, apparently, you were working in a coal mine from the time you were 8 years old,

that didn't occur.

There is no false premise.
Please spell out what is wrong with child labor.
If you can't make an argument at least say you don't know or can't and we can go from there.

It's a false premise to claim that most American children face hard work on a farm if they aren't put to work otherwise. It's laughable, in fact.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What is wrong with child labor? Go study with the child labor laws were passed. What a stupid butt statement, The Rabbi, from you.

It's pretty funny where some of these people will end up if you keep them talking long enough.

The defense of trusting corporations is now the condemnation of laws against child labor.