Crazy Idea: Lets divide a whole country into communist and capitalist and compare them 70 years later

[Vegasgiants]

Again, socialism is government control of the means of production and government distribution of production profits. Social programs are not socialism. They are programs We The People vote for government to administer.

The fire department is socialism

 

[Leo123]

The fire department is socialism

No it isn't. It is supported by local taxes dictated by the voters. It does not own means of production nor does it distribute revenue from a collective. If a society gets together and decides to have fire protection and creates a fire dept. That is NOT socialism.

 

[Vegasgiants]

No it isn't. It is supported by local taxes dictated by the voters. It does not own means of production nor does it distribute revenue from a collective. If a society gets together and decides to have fire protection and creates a fire dept. That is NOT socialism.

Great. Then if society gets together and creates a single payer healthcare system it's not socialism.


Tell that to the republicans

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I have to ask....why does any discussion end up being a talk of a sodomy-sexual nature with some? I thought this was a thread on "communism" vs. "capitalism".

Because every single thread like this alwaus BEGINS with you idiots trying to pull a "gotcha" by asking us over and over to define communism.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Stop telling them the truth, they don't like that...

They go nuts when you explain to them Police, Army, Education, Roads.... are all socialist programs....
Now they will stamp up and down and cry that it is not... But it is...

They are not.

Prisons are however enjoy the socialist life in one of those

 

[Leo123]

Great. Then if society gets together and creates a single payer healthcare system it's not socialism.


Tell that to the republicans

It’s a bad idea regardless.

 

[Vegasgiants]

It’s a bad idea regardless.

But they are wrong to cal it socialism.....right?

 

[Leo123]

But they are wrong to cal it socialism.....right?

IMO it’s a social programt administered by government. That type of program is grossly inefficient. IMO It could be a step toward socialim, call it what you want I guess.

 

[Vegasgiants]

IMO it’s a social programt administered by government. That type of program is grossly inefficient. IMO It could be a step toward socialim, call it what you want I guess.

It's a great idea that is long overdue

 

[Leo123]

It's a great idea that is long overdue

Government health care was never a great idea and is the cause of ever increasing healthcare costs.

"One reason for rising healthcare costs is government policy. Since the inception of Medicare and Medicaid—programs that help people without health insurance—providers have been able to increase prices."
Why Do Healthcare Costs Keep Rising?

The article does go on to state additional reasons such as population growth and population aging however, IMO, the root cause is insurance companies and providers seeing government 'deep pockets.' 'Rising prices' is stated as well however, government also plays a role in that.

A soon as you attache a service to government, that service becomes expensive and inefficient. If providers could not bill government they'd have to compete for patients and patients will not pay inflated prices for inadequate services.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Government health care was never a great idea and is the cause of ever increasing healthcare costs.

"One reason for rising healthcare costs is government policy. Since the inception of Medicare and Medicaid—programs that help people without health insurance—providers have been able to increase prices."
Why Do Healthcare Costs Keep Rising?

The article does go on to state additional reasons such as population growth and population aging however, IMO, the root cause is insurance companies and providers seeing government 'deep pockets.' 'Rising prices' is stated as well however, government also plays a role in that.

A soon as you attache a service to government, that service becomes expensive and inefficient. If providers could not bill government they'd have to compete for patients and patients will not pay inflated prices for inadequate services.

In a single payer system the government controls the price they will pay


Works very well in Canada

 

[Leo123]

In a single payer system the government controls the price they will pay


Works very well in Canada

It seems to work very well if one does not get sick. In Canada there is nearly a 328,000 backlog of needed surgeries. This will require 1.3 billion from Canadian taxpayers.

"Patients are dying while they wait. The Deloitte report found that delays in care might have contributed to more than 4,000 excess deaths unrelated to COVID-19 between August and December 2020 alone."

"New research from the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, offers a glimpse of what can happen when the government completely dominates the healthcare market. This year, Canadians faced a median wait of 25.6 weeks—nearly half a year—for medically necessary treatment from a specialist following referral by a general practitioner."

"Long waits for subpar care are endemic to single-payer. And those waits are what's coming to the United States if Democrats are successful in nudging the country toward Medicare for All."

"Canadian wait times today are nearly three times longer than they were in 1993, when Fraser began recording them. People are waiting for more than 1.4 million procedures. If we assume one procedure per person, that's equivalent to 3.7% of the Canadian population on a waiting list."

Building Back To Canadian Health Care?

Senate Democrats have delayed action on their multi-trillion-dollar Build Back Better Act until the New Year. If it passes, even more people will be dependent on the federal government for health coverage.

www.forbes.com

It seems in Canada, everyone can get government healthcare but, the quality of that healthcare is not so good. Nearly 2/3 of Canadians surveyed believe they should be able to spend their own money on private providers. As I said, government is too inefficient to provide adequate services. In some cases, we take the loss because government is more capable of fulfilling a role such as the Post Office but that is a far cry from placing one's own health in the hands of government bureaucrats.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cool story bruh...sooo umm can you say how many people die in Sweeden to their popular "democratic socialism"?

"Sweden is not socialist—because the government doesn't own the means of production. To see that, you have to go to Venezuela or Cuba or North Korea. We did have a period in the 1970s and 1980s when we had something that resembled socialism: a big government that taxed and spent heavily. And that's the period in Swedish history when our economy was going south." - Johan Norberg, Swedish historian

But you go ahead and tell us ALL about how you know more about his country than he does.

 

[Vegasgiants]

It seems to work very well if one does not get sick. In Canada there is nearly a 328,000 backlog of needed surgeries. This will require 1.3 billion from Canadian taxpayers.

"Patients are dying while they wait. The Deloitte report found that delays in care might have contributed to more than 4,000 excess deaths unrelated to COVID-19 between August and December 2020 alone."

"New research from the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, offers a glimpse of what can happen when the government completely dominates the healthcare market. This year, Canadians faced a median wait of 25.6 weeks—nearly half a year—for medically necessary treatment from a specialist following referral by a general practitioner."

"Long waits for subpar care are endemic to single-payer. And those waits are what's coming to the United States if Democrats are successful in nudging the country toward Medicare for All."

"Canadian wait times today are nearly three times longer than they were in 1993, when Fraser began recording them. People are waiting for more than 1.4 million procedures. If we assume one procedure per person, that's equivalent to 3.7% of the Canadian population on a waiting list."

Building Back To Canadian Health Care?

Senate Democrats have delayed action on their multi-trillion-dollar Build Back Better Act until the New Year. If it passes, even more people will be dependent on the federal government for health coverage.

www.forbes.com

It seems in Canada, everyone can get government healthcare but, the quality of that healthcare is not so good. Nearly 2/3 of Canadians surveyed believe they should be able to spend their own money on private providers. As I said, government is too inefficient to provide adequate services. In some cases, we take the loss because government is more capable of fulfilling a role such as the Post Office but that is a far cry from placing one's own health in the hands of government bureaucrats.

Canadians love their healthcare system.


You could not get elected dog catcher if you said you wanted to switch to a American style system

 

[Cecilie1200]

Stop telling them the truth, they don't like that...

They go nuts when you explain to them Police, Army, Education, Roads.... are all socialist programs....
Now they will stamp up and down and cry that it is not... But it is...

No, actually, we just tell you, "Government activity is not necessarily socialism, pissant." And then you stick your fingers in your ears and congratulate yourself on what a "brilliant" point you just made that obviously can't be refuted, since you didn't hear anyone refute it . . . with your fingers in your ears.

That's okay. No one expected adult, human thought out of you, anyway, so it's all good.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

May I build a wall around your "blend"?

You definitely should, before your most productive citizens escape your commie shitholes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you want to get rid of the Police, Military, Infrastructure (Roads, Bridges, Paths...), Schools, Courts..... They are all socialist...

Sorry but this is joke... The Government pays for the road to be built... It is the responsibility of the government to build, own and maintain the road... Any one can cycle or walk on the footpath...

Sorry but the this trying to say Road s are popular so therefore they can't be socialist...

There is no such thing as a 100% socialist country any more than there is a 100% capitalist country. It is a balance... US at times seems more capitalist than EU but in places like Military US is more Socialist than EU...

So when someone says socialism is evil they are saying working as a collective is wrong, when someone says capitalism is evil they are saying acting with any individuality is wrong... Both are as stupid as each other.

You will say they not but they are... They are paid for by tax payers for all people to use... So please tell us the evils of having public roads?

We're All Infrastructure Socialists

I'm grateful for the many thoughtful responses to my post yesterday about broadband policy and infrastructure socialism. A few people (including Adam himself) suggested that my title, "Adam Thierer, Infrastructure Socialist," was meant as an insult. This was not my intention. To the contrary...

www.forbes.com

"I have decided that all government is socialism, and that you have to embrace total anarchy to oppose socialism. Now defend the position I have told you to have!"

Fuck off, loser. You're clearly not bright enough to come up with your own thoughts, let alone mine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

People are concerned about the direction we're heading, not the fact that some socialist elements can contribute to a functional society. Your grenade was a dud.

Most things built by commies are duds.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

There is practically ZERO difference between that and socialism.

Except in Socialism where property and economic resources are owned by the state. So you understand at least half of the pablum you spew.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Our economy has been a blend of capitalism and socialism for almost a century now.

Exactly.

If this were to be done it would have to be pure capitalism and pure communism

Both would be abject failures

Hahaha…the shameless beggars among us always reveal themselves.
There is no “blend”….we live in a capitalist nation with some socialist components installed to keep the bottom feeding filthy fucks from killing us producers….that’s all.
Yep, we throw you beggars some scraps here and there just to keep you from banging down our doors…it doesn’t always work…as evidenced by the violence in ALL disgusting blue shitholes.