Crazy Idea: Lets divide a whole country into communist and capitalist and compare them 70 years later

[Mac-7]

Stop telling them the truth, they don't like that...

They go nuts when you explain to them Police, Army, Education, Roads.... are all socialist programs....
Now they will stamp up and down and cry that it is not... But it is...

In a socialist system the means of production belongs to everyone jointly

Everywhere that has been tried it failed

 

[Pellinore]

The fire department is socialism

Yes! That is correct, and I'm glad to see someone here mention it.

Here's why: Capitalism and socialism are about ownership of industry. Under socialism, industry is publicly owned and run by the government. It is often mentioned in terms of a whole society, but it can also be applied to a single industry as well.

Our clearly capitalistic society has several industries, including the fire departments, where the government provides the operational resources (from taxes), chooses the product or service (in this case, fire protection), and distributes it equally based on need (whose house is on fire). Those are exactly the same methods under which a completely socialist society runs every industry in their economic model, whether that industry provides a product or (as in this case) a service.

Fire departments are also notable because in the United States, they used to be privately-owned, and run by capitalist standards, but the whole industry changed along with society in the late 19th century.

 

[Theowl32]

Don't you wonder how or why the left laugh at the comparison and contrast of their version vs our version? Think about it. If only there was a way or some experiment where we could separate the people and have a conclusive idea of which one works FOR THE PEOPLE.

OH WAAAIIIIIT we do. It's called North and South Korea. We could also go to East and West Germany.

Yet they laugh and giggle and then eventually bring in the Nordic countries that are the whitest places on earth.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Well then Bernie Sanders is not socialist and almost no one else is in United States.

This is just rallying cry for the right against a strawman and silly response to a legitimate discussion of what govermnet ought to involve itself in or not.

Yeah, and when it comes down to it, government is the least effective at just about everything.

Government is force. Nothing more.

 

[Pellinore]

IS the OP going to FULL capitalist and ban all government programs with are techncally socialism, like medicare, social security, etc, and have everything completely market-based? Because if he isn't willing to do that then it's not a fair comparison. The US is currently a mixture of capitalism and socialism, and has not been full capitlist for a long time.

Also correct!

I don't know that there has ever been an entirely socialist society: It is essentially the utopia that Marx and Engels were promising when they came up with Communism. In practice, it probably would resemble the book and movie "1984" more than the peaceful, enlightened commune they had in mind. On the other hand, an entirely capitalist society, with no regulation or social services anywhere, would probably end up more like "Mad Max: Fury Road."

The difference between a capitalist society such as the US and a socialist one such as Sweden mostly centers around those industries that could go either way. The easiest to spot, probably, is health care, but the US can also show off clear blooms of capitalism such as private-owned prisons.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Show me the fingerprints, then, you magaturd shit blossom waste of human tissue. It ain't hard. Point by point. Show me my leftist posts. I'd really love to beat you to death with them. Go!

He cannot. I have been asking that of him for years, never once did it. Just post the same stupid shit that he responded to you with.

 

[AntonToo]

Yeah, and when it comes down to it, government is the least effective at just about everything.

Government is force. Nothing more.

Let's privatize police departments, Social Security, military and elections administration bruh.

Go ahead and run on that platform, just stop calling anything government does bad because socialism.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well then Bernie Sanders is not socialist and almost no one else is in United States.

This is just rallying cry for the right against a strawman and silly response to a legitimate discussion of what govermnet ought to involve itself in or not.

No, Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He's just wrong about what Sweden is actually like.

And cherrypicking posts so you can ignore the parts you don't want to deal with seems to be the operating method for leftists who treasure their ignorance.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Let's privatize police departments, Social Security, military and elections administration bruh.

Go ahead and run on that platform, just stop calling anything government does bad because socialism.

I never said do any of that. I simply said that government is force.

Government exists to protect liberty and property, and to provide for commonalities, like roads, police, military, etc. The things that make no sense being privatized.

Imagine having private roads all over the place and no land for anyone to use. That's what I mean by commonalities.

Government is force. It does very poorly in areas that it should not touch.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[AntonToo]

I never said do any of that. I simply said that government is force.

Government exists to protect liberty and property, and to provide for commonalities, like roads, police, military, etc. The things that make no sense being privatized.

Imagine having private roads all over the place and no land for anyone to use. That's what I mean by commonalities.

Government is force. It does very poorly in areas that it should not touch.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Come on now. You've said "government is least effective and just about everything."

Thats what I took issue with - There are in fact many important industries that government is much better suited for than bottom line chasing private enterprise.

Millitary, roads, police, firefighters, social security, medicaid etc. are big parts of our country's economy and society.

But the bottom line is that we can have a discussion about what specifically government should and shouldn't do without the whole broad stroking 'SOCIALISM!!!" shtik.

 

[Vegasgiants]

I never said do any of that. I simply said that government is force.

Government exists to protect liberty and property, and to provide for commonalities, like roads, police, military, etc. The things that make no sense being privatized.

Imagine having private roads all over the place and no land for anyone to use. That's what I mean by commonalities.

Government is force. It does very poorly in areas that it should not touch.

Please tell me where I'm wrong.

Add healthcare and schools

 

[AntonToo]

No, Bernie Sanders is a socialist. He's just wrong about what Sweden is actually like.

Nonsense, I don't for a second belive that he somehow doesn't know there are many private means of production in Sweeden.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Add healthcare and schools

We can do health care and schools without government. Quit trying to abuse it.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Nonsense, I don't for a second belive that he somehow doesn't know there are many private means of production in Sweeden.

So, he's just dishonest.

 

[Vegasgiants]

We can do health care and schools without government. Quit trying to abuse it.

Nah. Let's do it!!!!!!!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Nah. Let's do it!!!!!!!

Nah.
Let's get as much shit out of incompetent government hands as possible.

Destroy all government schools. Kill all incentives for medical insurance and make people pay out-of-pocket.

The cost of both would plummet and the quality would only improve.

We would do so much better.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Nah.
Let's get as much shit out of incompetent government hands as possible.

Destroy all government schools. Kill all incentives for medical insurance and make people pay out-of-pocket.

The cost of both would plummet and the quality would only improve.

We would do so much better.

What country has done that successfully?


Watch this folks

 

[Mac-7]

Well, you're introducing nuance and complexity to the conversation, and they don't like that. It usually makes them angry.

In their world, things generally need to be either this or that, all or nothing, 100% or 0%. That's how they've been conditioned to think.

Is Social Security socialism?

I say no it isnt

because its an earned benefit based on contribution rather than need

Hopefully thats not too much nuance for you

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

What country has done that successfully?


Watch this folks

Great Britain did it splendidly until the socialists took over.

We have a pretty solid network of private schools in the US. They produce some of the best and brightest.

As for healthcare, the problem is health insurance is impeding the market. Doctors and hospitals can't charge exorbitant fees if nobody has the money to pay for it. Remove health insurance and watch the price plummet.


Now what were you saying?

 

[Vegasgiants]

Great Britain did it splendidly until the socialist took over.

We have a pretty solid network of private schools in the US. They produce some of the best and brightest.

As for healthcare, the problem is health insurance is impeding the market. Doctors and hospitals can't charge exorbitant fees if nobody has the money to pay for it. Remove health insurance and wash the price plummet.


Now what were you saying?

So nowhere on earth today....right? Lol