Creationists

[daws101]

1981 to 1985

Probably when most of these ignorant kids were born.

says the most ignorant person on this thread..
only an obsessive asshat woud fuck up a vacation here in california in june at the beach by texting ...your wife must be proud!

DAWS, where you been? You missed all the fun with your fundie evolutionist sister Holly over the weekend.

I have a life....been reading this thread....your asses must be sore from all that kicking...

 

[daws101]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

 

[Youwerecreated]

This is also why peer-review is absent among the ID / creationism community.

Another false claim previously proven wrong a few posts back with substantiated info easily verifiable on the internet, one publication of which has been around since 1926, pre-dating the Creationists and ID Theory movements.

I guess Hollie wishes not to discuss science, not surprising.

You poor thing.

If you science to offer that would be fine. However, "science" that is culled from creationist websites is not science. I've shown you repeatedly that the sites you link to have a predefined agenda of pressing supernaturalism and do so by falsifying and / or explicitly ignoring data that refuted their religious claims.

Funding creationist websites are promoting religion, not science. Your need to promote an agenda that is utterly hostile to science has been demonstrated within this thread.

So what of Newton, arguably one of the greatest scientist of all time? Will you discount his theories because he was a fundie? You ignorance of history is appalling. I should have stopped responding to you when I said I was going to before. You are so blind that it really reminds me of arguing with a drunk when I was a cop. Both are exercises in futility. I will waste no more time with you since you cannot even present, or follow, a logical thought. Have a nice fundamentalist Materialist purposeless existence.

YWC, I would suggest you don't entertain this any longer as well. Dust off your feet and head to the next town.

Yeah I pretty much did that with DAWS and Hollie is next on the list. The problem is neither one know enough to see the legitimacy of our questions put to them. It seems most of the time only montrovant and konradv are coherent and understand the questions and answers given them.

They can even be civil most of the time but Hollie and Daws forget it, they have an ax to grind for some reason and they are stuck on taking shots rather then focus on legitimate issues that are presented to them. I think mostly is they don';t have a clue how to respond.

 

[Youwerecreated]

How do you get a net gain of DNA information if the previous information is no longer ?

Mutations: The Raw Material for Evolution?

Fusion and transfection are two examples of how DNA can gain information. If you're the scientist you say you are, you should know that.

Also, if a gene mutates the information isn't gone. It still resides in the other copy of the chromosome. Something you also should know!!!

ywc is not a scientist neither is ur....

That is correct but worked closely with them I was a lab Tech. Mr. Theatre guy probably havn't done well at that either have you.

I would be curious what you really do for a living.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hey YWCA, I went to U of A too. Studied mechanical engineering. What years were you there? I was 84 to 88. I actually sold the HVAC equipment on TGEN here in Phoenix and a guy that goes to our church is a researching there. And he is not even science loathing!

1981 to 1985

Probably when most of these ignorant kids were born.

says the most ignorant person on this thread..
only an obsessive asshat woud fuck up a vacation here in california in june at the beach by texting ...your wife must be proud!

I get a little down time and my wife and daughters don't wait for Daddy to lead them around by the nose.

 

[Youwerecreated]

says the most ignorant person on this thread..
only an obsessive asshat woud fuck up a vacation here in california in june at the beach by texting ...your wife must be proud!

DAWS, where you been? You missed all the fun with your fundie evolutionist sister Holly over the weekend.

I have a life....been reading this thread....your asses must be sore from all that kicking...

That is right theatre don't pay well when your not good enough so you have no computer and can't get to one until work or school eh.

 

[Youwerecreated]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

You are predictable Daws.

Characteristics

The specimen found consisted of a skull and several bone fragments, namely, the shoulder, wrist, and fin, among others. According to evolutionists, the Tiktaalik was an intermediate form between sea and land animals. This conclusion was reached because of Tiktaalik's similarities to both fish and tetrapods. For instance, it is assumed to have had the scales and gills of a fish and yet also to have had tetrapod limbs and lungs, as well as a mobile neck. Its alleged half-fish and half-tetrapod characteristics included limb bones and joints which resembled those of a tetrapod but had fins rather than toes on the "feet".

For all these features, however, it is clear that Tiktaalik was simply a fish; its lobed fins appear better suited for swimming in water rather than crawling on land, and other fish, such as the Coelacanth, were also thought to be "missing links" until they were discovered to be some form of fish. It has been placed by evolutionists alongside Archaeopteryx, but they fail to see that neither animal was a transitional form; archaeopteryx was a full bird, tiktaalik was a full fish

Tiktaalik - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science


Reconstruction of Tiktaalik

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative. So is the implication in the image that Tiktaalik walked on land. It is just as likely that it used its robust fins to "walk" on the sea floor, helping it to catch prey in an alligator-like manner. While the tail is included in the image, the tail and rear fins have not been found.

http://conservapedia.com/Tiktaalik

 

[Hollie]

This is also why peer-review is absent among the ID / creationism community.

Another false claim previously proven wrong a few posts back with substantiated info easily verifiable on the internet, one publication of which has been around since 1926, pre-dating the Creationists and ID Theory movements.

You poor thing.

If you science to offer that would be fine. However, "science" that is culled from creationist websites is not science. I've shown you repeatedly that the sites you link to have a predefined agenda of pressing supernaturalism and do so by falsifying and / or explicitly ignoring data that refuted their religious claims.

Funding creationist websites are promoting religion, not science. Your need to promote an agenda that is utterly hostile to science has been demonstrated within this thread.

So what of Newton, arguably one of the greatest scientist of all time? Will you discount his theories because he was a fundie? You ignorance of history is appalling. I should have stopped responding to you when I said I was going to before. You are so blind that it really reminds me of arguing with a drunk when I was a cop. Both are exercises in futility. I will waste no more time with you since you cannot even present, or follow, a logical thought. Have a nice fundamentalist Materialist purposeless existence.

YWC, I would suggest you don't entertain this any longer as well. Dust off your feet and head to the next town.

Yeah I pretty much did that with DAWS and Hollie is next on the list. The problem is neither one know enough to see the legitimacy of our questions put to them. It seems most of the time only montrovant and konradv are coherent and understand the questions and answers given them.

They can even be civil most of the time but Hollie and Daws forget it, they have an ax to grind for some reason and they are stuck on taking shots rather then focus on legitimate issues that are presented to them. I think mostly is they don';t have a clue how to respond.

For all the chest heaving and posturing, I've yet to see you defend your claims to supernaturalism.

But yes, I do expect that you should take the ICR charlatan road show to where travelling carnivals set up their rides and attractions.

 

[Hollie]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

You are predictable Daws.

Characteristics

The specimen found consisted of a skull and several bone fragments, namely, the shoulder, wrist, and fin, among others. According to evolutionists, the Tiktaalik was an intermediate form between sea and land animals. This conclusion was reached because of Tiktaalik's similarities to both fish and tetrapods. For instance, it is assumed to have had the scales and gills of a fish and yet also to have had tetrapod limbs and lungs, as well as a mobile neck. Its alleged half-fish and half-tetrapod characteristics included limb bones and joints which resembled those of a tetrapod but had fins rather than toes on the "feet".

For all these features, however, it is clear that Tiktaalik was simply a fish; its lobed fins appear better suited for swimming in water rather than crawling on land, and other fish, such as the Coelacanth, were also thought to be "missing links" until they were discovered to be some form of fish. It has been placed by evolutionists alongside Archaeopteryx, but they fail to see that neither animal was a transitional form; archaeopteryx was a full bird, tiktaalik was a full fish

Tiktaalik - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science


Reconstruction of Tiktaalik

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative. So is the implication in the image that Tiktaalik walked on land. It is just as likely that it used its robust fins to "walk" on the sea floor, helping it to catch prey in an alligator-like manner. While the tail is included in the image, the tail and rear fins have not been found.

Tiktaalik - Conservapedia

Can we expect that the biological scientists at creationwiki are actually grocery store baggers who contribute to "creationwiki"?

It's just so typical that the "scientists" representing creationist claims have no education or training in the subject matter they write about.

I suppose that when contributing to a fundie creationist website, signing an agreement not to publish material in conflict with creationist propaganda tends to limit the quality of the contributor.

 

[Hollie]

;DAWS, where you been? You missed all the fun with your fundie evolutionist sister Holly over the weekend.

I don't think "fun" is the correct term. There's not a lot of fun involved in dealing with creationist zealots. It's even less fun when the creationist zealots use tactics - calling their propaganda "Intelligent Design", which has long ago been derided (and dismissed) as just another term for creationist quackery.

Many may not be aware of this but ducks have evolved very rapidly over the last several decades. As the creationist movement has sought to promote their agenda of quackery using different titles for the same, tired appeals to the gods, the public has noticed that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's a duck.

 

[UltimateReality]

Fusion and transfection are two examples of how DNA can gain information. If you're the scientist you say you are, you should know that.

Also, if a gene mutates the information isn't gone. It still resides in the other copy of the chromosome. Something you also should know!!!

ywc is not a scientist neither is ur....

That is correct but worked closely with them I was a lab Tech. Mr. Theatre guy probably havn't done well at that either have you.

I would be curious what you really do for a living.

And I'm a retried police officer, who is falling back on my college education in mechanical engineering and now selling commercial and industrial HVAC equipment. I am open to providing info and I'm not trying to "trick" anyone. I do believe there is some valid science that occurs in the field of biology and anthropology. I just wonder how much farther along we would be if we weren't trying to force fit everything into the TOE, even when it doesn't make sense. Just a few questions that have never been answered for me:

Where does abiogenisis end and evolution start? What level of complexity does the common ancestor have? Why is there no agreed up definition of fitness? Yet the whole theory is based on random mutations surviving due to fitness? Why has no one corrected Darwin's tree of life even though genetics disproved it years ago?

 

[UltimateReality]

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative.

Much like the entire theory of evolution. It is the only realm of science where "may haves" and "might haves" rule as fact. The finches "might have" survived due to their longer beaks which helped them get to food and water the short beak finches couldn't get to. I'm not sure why an actual scientific experiment couldn't be done to determine this. Instead they just call it fact and display it as an Icon of Evolution. Why couldn't they isolate some long and short beak finches and see which ones survive under which conditions? God knows its not like the Evolutionists don't have the funding!!!

 

[UltimateReality]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

You are predictable Daws.

Characteristics

The specimen found consisted of a skull and several bone fragments, namely, the shoulder, wrist, and fin, among others. According to evolutionists, the Tiktaalik was an intermediate form between sea and land animals. This conclusion was reached because of Tiktaalik's similarities to both fish and tetrapods. For instance, it is assumed to have had the scales and gills of a fish and yet also to have had tetrapod limbs and lungs, as well as a mobile neck. Its alleged half-fish and half-tetrapod characteristics included limb bones and joints which resembled those of a tetrapod but had fins rather than toes on the "feet".

For all these features, however, it is clear that Tiktaalik was simply a fish; its lobed fins appear better suited for swimming in water rather than crawling on land, and other fish, such as the Coelacanth, were also thought to be "missing links" until they were discovered to be some form of fish. It has been placed by evolutionists alongside Archaeopteryx, but they fail to see that neither animal was a transitional form; archaeopteryx was a full bird, tiktaalik was a full fish

Tiktaalik - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science


Reconstruction of Tiktaalik

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative. So is the implication in the image that Tiktaalik walked on land. It is just as likely that it used its robust fins to "walk" on the sea floor, helping it to catch prey in an alligator-like manner. While the tail is included in the image, the tail and rear fins have not been found.

Tiktaalik - Conservapedia

Can we expect that the biological scientists at creationwiki are actually grocery store baggers who contribute to "creationwiki"?

It's just so typical that the "scientists" representing creationist claims have no education or training in the subject matter they write about.

I suppose that when contributing to a fundie creationist website, signing an agreement not to publish material in conflict with creationist propaganda tends to limit the quality of the contributor.

See what I mean Youwerecreated? I posted a list with 900, count'em 900 PHD scientists the majority of who's fields are in biology and anthropology stating they weren't buying Darwinism. Of course she conveniently ignores that and states the same thing over and over, ad nauseum. This post right here confirms she is just trying to be manipulative and get a rise out of anyone who will engage her. Maybe DAWS and her should get together. Maybe she could go to one of his frat parties.

 

[Youwerecreated]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

You are predictable Daws.

Characteristics

The specimen found consisted of a skull and several bone fragments, namely, the shoulder, wrist, and fin, among others. According to evolutionists, the Tiktaalik was an intermediate form between sea and land animals. This conclusion was reached because of Tiktaalik's similarities to both fish and tetrapods. For instance, it is assumed to have had the scales and gills of a fish and yet also to have had tetrapod limbs and lungs, as well as a mobile neck. Its alleged half-fish and half-tetrapod characteristics included limb bones and joints which resembled those of a tetrapod but had fins rather than toes on the "feet".

For all these features, however, it is clear that Tiktaalik was simply a fish; its lobed fins appear better suited for swimming in water rather than crawling on land, and other fish, such as the Coelacanth, were also thought to be "missing links" until they were discovered to be some form of fish. It has been placed by evolutionists alongside Archaeopteryx, but they fail to see that neither animal was a transitional form; archaeopteryx was a full bird, tiktaalik was a full fish

Tiktaalik - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science


Reconstruction of Tiktaalik

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative. So is the implication in the image that Tiktaalik walked on land. It is just as likely that it used its robust fins to "walk" on the sea floor, helping it to catch prey in an alligator-like manner. While the tail is included in the image, the tail and rear fins have not been found.

Tiktaalik - Conservapedia

Can we expect that the biological scientists at creationwiki are actually grocery store baggers who contribute to "creationwiki"?

It's just so typical that the "scientists" representing creationist claims have no education or training in the subject matter they write about.

I suppose that when contributing to a fundie creationist website, signing an agreement not to publish material in conflict with creationist propaganda tends to limit the quality of the contributor.

Jonathan Sarfati









Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati (b. October 1, 1964

) is a renowned creationist, physical chemist, spectroscopist, and chess master. He is most famous for taking an uncompromising stance on the origins of the universe, the earth, and life, and defending Scripture in a straightforward manner against any attempt to "reconcile" it with "scientific data" that contradict it.

Life and career

Jonathan Sarfati was born in Ararat, Australia in 1964. He moved to New Zealand as a child and received his early education there.[1] He graduated from Victoria University of Wellington with a B.Sc. (Hons.) in Chemistry with two physics papers substituted, and a Ph.D. in Chemistry, based on his thesis: A Spectroscopic Study of some Chalcogenide Ring and Cage Molecules. He has also had papers published in peer-reviewed scientific journals including co-authoring in the journal Nature on high-temperature superconductors in 1987, when he was 22 [2].

Degrees
B.Sc. (Hons.) in Chemistry (with condensed matter and nuclear physics papers substituted)
Ph.D. in Spectroscopy (Chemistry)

What are your credentials ?

 

[UltimateReality]

So here I am sitting in my office because my wife is entertaining her women's group at our house tonight and I have my dog with me because he is harassing them. I just tried to tell him to go get his bone in the corner. Then I pointed and said, "Go get your bone". Unfortunately, instead of looking where I am pointing, he just keeps hopelessly looking at my finger. Then the epiphany came to me that DAWS and Holly are alot like my puppy. They just can't seem to look where I am pointing, and only keep focusing on my finger.

 

[Youwerecreated]

You are predictable Daws.

Characteristics

The specimen found consisted of a skull and several bone fragments, namely, the shoulder, wrist, and fin, among others. According to evolutionists, the Tiktaalik was an intermediate form between sea and land animals. This conclusion was reached because of Tiktaalik's similarities to both fish and tetrapods. For instance, it is assumed to have had the scales and gills of a fish and yet also to have had tetrapod limbs and lungs, as well as a mobile neck. Its alleged half-fish and half-tetrapod characteristics included limb bones and joints which resembled those of a tetrapod but had fins rather than toes on the "feet".

For all these features, however, it is clear that Tiktaalik was simply a fish; its lobed fins appear better suited for swimming in water rather than crawling on land, and other fish, such as the Coelacanth, were also thought to be "missing links" until they were discovered to be some form of fish. It has been placed by evolutionists alongside Archaeopteryx, but they fail to see that neither animal was a transitional form; archaeopteryx was a full bird, tiktaalik was a full fish

Tiktaalik - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science


Reconstruction of Tiktaalik

The above image is from the National Science Foundation, a U.S. Government agency to fund science. While reconstructions such as this one appear to show what the species in question really looked like, the true appearance of Tiktaalik is unknown. For example, the difference in appearance between the head and the "shoudler" area is speculative. So is the implication in the image that Tiktaalik walked on land. It is just as likely that it used its robust fins to "walk" on the sea floor, helping it to catch prey in an alligator-like manner. While the tail is included in the image, the tail and rear fins have not been found.

Tiktaalik - Conservapedia

Can we expect that the biological scientists at creationwiki are actually grocery store baggers who contribute to "creationwiki"?

It's just so typical that the "scientists" representing creationist claims have no education or training in the subject matter they write about.

I suppose that when contributing to a fundie creationist website, signing an agreement not to publish material in conflict with creationist propaganda tends to limit the quality of the contributor.

See what I mean Youwerecreated? I posted a list with 900, count'em 900 PHD scientists the majority of who's fields are in biology and anthropology stating they weren't buying Darwinism. Of course she conveniently ignores that and states the same thing over and over, ad nauseum. This post right here confirms she is just trying to be manipulative and get a rise out of anyone who will engage her. Maybe DAWS and her should get together. Maybe she could go to one of his frat parties.

She is arguing over the guy responsible for the article having degrees in Chemistry and Physics.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So here I am sitting in my office because my wife is entertaining her women's group at our house tonight and I have my dog with me because he is harassing them. I just tried to tell him to go get his bone in the corner. Then I pointed and said, "Go get your bone". Unfortunately, instead of looking where I am pointing, he just keeps hopelessly looking at my finger. Then the epiphany came to me that DAWS and Holly are alot like my puppy. They just can't seem to look where I am pointing, and only keep focusing on my finger.

 

[UltimateReality]

With the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin this week, people around the world are celebrating his role as the father of evolutionary theory. Events and press releases are geared, in part, to combat false claims made by some who would discredit the theory.

One frequently cited "hole" in the theory: Creationists claim there are no transitional fossils, aka missing links. Biologists and paleontologists, among others, know this claim is false.

As key evidence for evolution and species' gradual change over time, transitional creatures should resemble intermediate species, having skeletal and other body features in common with two distinct groups of animals, such as reptiles and mammals, or fish and amphibians.



These animals sound wild, but the fossil record — which is far from complete — is full of them nonetheless, as documented by Occidental College geologist Donald Prothero in his book "Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matters" (Columbia University Press, 2007). Prothero discussed those fossils last month at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, along with transitional fossils that were announced since the book was published, including the "fishibian" and the "frogamander."

At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers. The exact count is unclear because some lineages of organisms are continuously evolving.

Here is a short list of transitional fossils documented by Prothero and that add to the mountain of evidence for Charles Darwin's theory. A lot of us relate most to fossils of life closely related to humans, so the list focuses on mammals and other vertebrates, including dinosaurs.

Mammals, including us

•It is now clear that the evolutionary tree for early and modern humans looks more like a bush than the line represented in cartoons. All the hominid fossils found to date form a complex nexus of specimens, Prothero says, but Sahelanthropus tchadensis, found in 2001 and 2002, threw everyone for a loop because it walked upright 7 million years ago on two feet but is quite chimp-like in its skull size, teeth, brow ridges and face. It could be a common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees, but many paleoanthropologists will remain unsure until more fossils are found. Previously, the earliest ancestor of our Homo genus found in the fossil record dated back 6 million years.
•-Most fossil giraffes have short necks and today's have long necks, but anatomist Nikos Solounias of the New York Institute of Technology's New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is preparing a description of a giraffe fossil, Bohlinia, with a neck that is intermediate in length.
•Manatees, also called sea cows, are marine mammals that have flippers and a down-turned snout for grazing in warm shallow waters. In 2001, scientists discovered the fossil of a "walking manatee," Pezosiren portelli, which had feet rather than flippers and walked on land during the Eocene epoch (54.8 million years ago to 33.7 million years ago) in what is now Jamaica. Along with skull features like manatees (such as horizontal tooth replacement, like a conveyor belt), it also had heavy ribs for ballast, showing that it also had an aquatic lifestyle, like hippos.
•Scientists know that mastodons, mammoths and elephants all share a common ancestor, but it gets hard to tell apart some of the earliest members of this group, called proboscideans, going back to fossils from the Oligocene epoch (33.7 million years ago to 23.8 million years ago). The primitive members of this group can be traced back to what Prothero calls "the ultimate transitional fossil," Moeritherium, from the late Eocene of Egypt. It looked more like a small hippo than an elephant and probably lacked a long trunk, but it had short upper and lower tusks, the teeth of a primitive mastodon and ear features found only in other proboscideans.
•The Dimetrodon was a big predatory reptile with a tail and a large sail or fin-back. It is often mistaken for a dinosaur, but it's actually part of our mammalian lineage and more closely related to mammals than reptiles, which is seen in its specialized teeth for stabbing meat and skull features that only mammals and their ancestors had. It probably moved around like a lizard and had a jawbone made of multiple bones, like a reptile.
Dinosaurs and birds

•The classic fossil of Archaeopteryx, sometimes called the first bird, has a wishbone (fully fused clavicle) which is only found in modern birds and some dinosaurs. But it also shows impressions from feathers on its body, as seen on many of the theropod dinosaurs from which it evolved. Its body, capable of flight or gliding, also had many of dinosaur features — teeth (no birds alive today have teeth), a long bony tail (tails on modern birds are entirely feathers, not bony), long hind legs and toes, and a specialized hand with long bony fingers (unlike modern bird wings in which the fingers are fused into a single element), Prothero said.
•Sinornis was a bird that also has long bony fingers and teeth, like those seen in dinosaurs and not seen in modern birds.
•Yinlong is a small bipedal dinosaur which shares features with two groups of dinosaurs known to many kids — ceratopsians, the beaked dinosaurs like Triceratops, and pachycephalosaurs, known for having a thick dome of bone in their skulls protecting their brains. Yinlong has the thick rostral bone that is otherwise unique to ceratopsians dinosaurs, and the thick skull roof found in the pachycephalosaurs.
•Anchisaurus is a primitive sauropod dinosaur that has a lot of lizard-like features. It was only 8 feet long (the classic sauropods later on could be more than 100-feet long), had a short neck (sauropods are known for their long necks, while lizards are not), and delicate limbs and feet, unlike dinosaurs. Its spine was like that of a sauropod. The early sauropods were bipedal, while the latter were stood on all fours. Anchisaurus was probably capable of both stances, Prothero wrote.
Fish, frogs, turtles

•Tiktaalik, aka the fishibian or the fishapod, is a large scaled fish that shows a perfect transition between fins and feet, aquatic and land animals. It had fish-like scales, as well as fish-like fin rays and jaw and mouth elements, but it had a shortened skull roof and mobile neck to catch prey, an ear that could hear in both land and water, and a wrist joint that is like those seen in land animals.
•Last year, scientists announced the discovery of Gerobatrachus hottorni, aka the frogamander. Technically, it's a toothed amphibian, but it shows the common origins of frogs and salamanders, scientists say, with a wide skull and large ear drum (like frogs) and two fused ankle bones as seen in salamanders.
•A creature on the way to becoming a turtle, Odontochelys semistestacea, swam around in China's coastal waters 200 million years ago. It had a belly shell but its back was basically bare of armor. Odontochelys had an elongated, pointed snout. Most modern turtles have short snouts. In addition, the roof of its mouth, along with the upper and lower jaws, was equipped with teeth, which the researchers said is a primitive feature for turtles whose mugs are now tipped with beaks but contain no teeth.


Fossils Reveal Truth About Darwin's Theory | LiveScience

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Asian origin of distant human ancestors? | Uncommon Descent

Re the horse series in current Korean “past-sell-by-date” Darwin textbooks … | Uncommon Descent

Darwin's God: Of Turtles and the Closing of the Evolutionary Mind

If turtles are closer to birds than to lizards and snakes, genetically, then … | Uncommon Descent

 

[UltimateReality]

Can we expect that the biological scientists at creationwiki are actually grocery store baggers who contribute to "creationwiki"?

It's just so typical that the "scientists" representing creationist claims have no education or training in the subject matter they write about.

I suppose that when contributing to a fundie creationist website, signing an agreement not to publish material in conflict with creationist propaganda tends to limit the quality of the contributor.

See what I mean Youwerecreated? I posted a list with 900, count'em 900 PHD scientists the majority of who's fields are in biology and anthropology stating they weren't buying Darwinism. Of course she conveniently ignores that and states the same thing over and over, ad nauseum. This post right here confirms she is just trying to be manipulative and get a rise out of anyone who will engage her. Maybe DAWS and her should get together. Maybe she could go to one of his frat parties.

She is arguing over the guy responsible for the article having degrees in Chemistry and Physics.

I think we should start a campaign to disqualify Darwin since he came up with a theory that was outside his field.

 

[UltimateReality]

Can EVO FUNDIES really ignore this type of SCIENTIFIC DATA???

"But if we fast-forward two more decades, it becomes clear that the consistent picture that everyone expected -- all genes confirming the same pattern of species relationships -- is not to be. What we have instead is something of a mess, as James Degnan and Noah Rosenberg made clear in a paper published in 20093:

Many of the first studies to examine the conflicting signal of different genes have found considerable discordance across gene trees: studies of hominids, pines, cichlids, finches, grasshoppers and fruit flies have all detected genealogical discordance so widespread that no single tree topology predominates.

And despite consistent attempts to portray this as something less than a crisis for evolutionary theory, the news found its way into the popular press. That same year, The Telegraph jumped on the story with an article titled, "Charles Darwin's tree of life is 'wrong and misleading,' claim scientists"4."

"Indeed, it becomes so easy to construct utterly fictitious evolutionary histories when we drop the expectation of consistency that such a move ought to be viewed as undermining the whole exercise of phylogenetic reconstruction. Whisky, kerosene and milk have no common pedigree, but that wouldn't stop us from concocting one if we were to lower the standard in that way. The only prospect of elevating tree-building to something more than a game, then, is that it might uncover a strikingly consistent pattern of relationship between species. And the sobering truth is -- it doesn't."

Theory Creep: The Quiet Shift in Evolutionary Thought - Evolution News & Views