Creationists

[Hollie]

Nope, i'm shooting holes in yours.

You see early man was created perfect and it took time for mutations to do their job. Inbreeding was stopped a long time ago because God ordered it ,why ? because if he didn't stop it man would have been plagued by genetic disorders due to mutations and man would have gone extinct.

That is why early man lived much longer and over time the average lifespan decreased significantly. We have around 5,000 genetic disorders,thank goodness we have large populations.

That makes no sense. “Early man”, (whatever that means) was obviously not created perfect. Perfection would be precisely that: perfection, thus your claim that “it took time for mutations to do their job” is a nonsensical claim. Oddly, you’re actually describing the process of evolution in defining that “it took time for mutations to do their job”. The other implication is that your designer gods are incompetent boobs when it comes to “design”.

The gods never ordered a stop to inbreeding. That’s another nonsensical claim. The Noah tale requires that every human on the planet is the product of an incestuous relationship established by your gods. The fact is, humankind actually is plagued by genetic disorders so as usual, your claims utterly contradict themselves.

The fact is, human life spans have increased significantly over time. Due to advent of medical science. Yet another of your claims that is totally without merit.

How do you know early man was not created perfect,and he started to degrade over time ?

If man was a "perfect creation" that would imply... you know... perfection. Is that difficult to understand? degradation of perfection implies... you know... not perfection.

We have no reason to believe that man was created. Your religious perspective (which is not a basis for science), requires you to believe otherwise. That is the problem you face when trying to come to an understaning of the natural world - you can't. You are forever confined to a hopeless existence wherein you must tremble before angry gods.

 

[Hollie]

You are the clueless one.

The Toba catastrophe theory suggests that a bottleneck of the human population occurred c. 70,000 years ago, proposing that the human population was reduced to perhaps 15,000 individuals[3] when the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia erupted and triggered a major environmental change. The theory is based on geological evidences of sudden climate change and on coalescence evidences of some genes (including mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosome and some nuclear genes)[4] and the relatively low level of genetic variation with humans.[3]

On the other hand, in 2000, a Molecular Biology and Evolution paper suggested a transplanting model or a 'long bottleneck' to account for the limited genetic variation, rather than a catastrophic environmental change.[7] This would be consistent with suggestions that in sub-Saharan Africa numbers could have dropped at times as low as 2,000, for perhaps as long as 100,000 years, before numbers began to expand again in the Late Stone Age.[8]

Wilma!!!!!

The above is typical of the dishonesty inherent in the religious / fundie crowd. You were careful not to include a source for your cut and paste because you parsed the data.

Here's the part you chose to edit out:

"However, such coalescence is genetically expected and does not, in itself, indicate a population bottleneck, because mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome DNA are only a small part of the entire genome, and are atypical in that they are inherited exclusively through the mother or through the father, respectively. Most genes in the genome are inherited from either father or mother, and thus can be traced back in time via either matrilineal or patrilineal ancestry.[5] Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair).[3][6]"

Deceit and dishonsety is so typically a part of the fundie crowd, That's not surprising as supernaturalism is completely divorced from science.

More importantly, none of the above has any effect of dismantling evolutionary science. That's why its so strange that a fundie would be cutting and pasting articles connected with evolution when that fundie is the classic 6,000 year old earth groupie.

HA!! This coming from someone that doesn't use quotes and plagiarizes someone else, passing their comments off as your own, Hollie. No, I have not forgotten and you have not gotten away with your lies. And once again your stupidity rules. Now read all three statements in context, in the order they were written. "On the other hand" conveys definite meaning in the context of the three statements, so EPIC FAIL for you again.

You're obviously backtracking and your frantic attempts to conceal your dishonesty is not working.

The epic fail is yours for dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs of what was written. This is an all too common approach taken by the fundie types who are unable to argue from a science perspective and are thus left to tactics that simply discard integrity and honesty as their only avenue to promote supernaturalism is to lie and attempt to deceive.

 

[UltimateReality]

You're hoping to suggest that the "our" in the text you bolded is a blanket claim for the science community and it is not.

Whereas our view of human evolution has drastically changed over the past few years, it would be pretentious to believe we now know the true history of modern humans

That, in large part, is the probem faced by fundies. Without an understanding of the subject matter they hope to denigrate, ie: science and evolution, they're left to scour the web for any material they can find hoping to support their religious views in deference to making an honest attempt to understand the processes of science.

This is a peer-reviewed paper on a pro-evolution website. I thought you said only peer-reviewed studies count? Now you are backpedaling on that too I see. There is no limit to the level of dishonesty you will go to.

About PLoS Genetics

PLoS Genetics (eISSN 1553-7404, ISSN 1553-7390) is an open-access, peer-reviewed journal published weekly by the Public Library of Science (PLoS).

PLoS Genetics is run by an international Editorial Board, headed by the Editor-in-Chief, Greg Barsh (Stanford University School of Medicine).

Articles published in PLoS Genetics are archived in PubMed Central and cited in PubMed.

As noted earlier, you are hoping to portray your cut and paste article as speaking for the science community which it is not.

In your frantic attempts to vilify science, you should have noticed that one article you cut and paste does not meet your intended goal.

The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter where the info comes from. You are not open to any real scientific evidence, because like I said before, you were raised in a Christian home and when you began to struggle with same sex attraction, you abandoned your religion and now cling to the Darwinist religion. Since Darwinism is a religion for you, it wouldn't matter what I posted. You simply aren't open to science.

 

[UltimateReality]

You're obviously backtracking and your frantic attempts to conceal your dishonesty is not working.

The epic fail is yours for dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs of what was written.

Me concealing my dishonesty??? Me dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs? For those of you that missed it, here are Hollies "own words" from page 312:

Hollie pretending to be smart by passing someone else's quote as her own:
It's a singularly utilitarian form of narcissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

It's a singularly utilitarian form of narcissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

Hollie on Page 312:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

Hollie doing some serious lying and cut and pasting on page 312:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

Here is the link to info Hollie stole from someone else:

http://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?10302-How-can-there-be-freewill/page13

Hollie, you have damaged your intellectual integrity so bad, how are we supposed to believe that anything you post on here is your own?

 

[Hollie]

You're obviously backtracking and your frantic attempts to conceal your dishonesty is not working.

The epic fail is yours for dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs of what was written.

Me concealing my dishonesty??? Me dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs? For those of you that missed it, here are Hollies "own words" from page 312:

Hollie pretending to be smart by passing someone else's quote as her own:
It's a singularly utilitarian form of naricissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

It's a singularly utilitarian form of narcissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

Hollie on Page 312:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

Hollie doing some serious lying and cut and pasting on page 312:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

Here is the link to info Hollie stole from someone else:

How can there be freewill? - Page 13

Hollie, you have damaged your intellectual integrity so bad, how are we supposed to believe that anything you post on here is your own?

I've posted on other boards beside this one.

For all of your stalking and cutting and pasting (much of which you have selectively edited or removed from your cut and paste), you still haven't provided a single bit of evidence for your gods or for a 6,000 year old earth.

So whose credibility is really damaged.

I'm actually going to require that you scour the site for some of my older posts. I think you will find them to be effective in dismantling the pages of material you cut and paste from fundie websites. The other site was very active 3 or more years ago and the debates were with people who actually could compose coherent sentences, unlike you and your alternate log in.

 

[Hollie]

This is a peer-reviewed paper on a pro-evolution website. I thought you said only peer-reviewed studies count? Now you are backpedaling on that too I see. There is no limit to the level of dishonesty you will go to.

About PLoS Genetics

PLoS Genetics (eISSN 1553-7404, ISSN 1553-7390) is an open-access, peer-reviewed journal published weekly by the Public Library of Science (PLoS).

PLoS Genetics is run by an international Editorial Board, headed by the Editor-in-Chief, Greg Barsh (Stanford University School of Medicine).

Articles published in PLoS Genetics are archived in PubMed Central and cited in PubMed.

As noted earlier, you are hoping to portray your cut and paste article as speaking for the science community which it is not.

In your frantic attempts to vilify science, you should have noticed that one article you cut and paste does not meet your intended goal.

The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter where the info comes from. You are not open to any real scientific evidence, because like I said before, you were raised in a Christian home and when you began to struggle with same sex attraction, you abandoned your religion and now cling to the Darwinist religion. Since Darwinism is a religion for you, it wouldn't matter what I posted. You simply aren't open to science.

I see. So when you are confronted with dishonestly removing portions of the material you cut and paste, your last resort is to make false and juvenile claims as to my sexual orientation?

Its a shame that there is not an age verification requirement for participation on this board. It's just not appropriate that 12 year old children are allowed to spend so much time cut and pasting spam.

 

[UltimateReality]

You're obviously backtracking and your frantic attempts to conceal your dishonesty is not working.

The epic fail is yours for dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs of what was written.

Me concealing my dishonesty??? Me dishonestly parsing entire paragraphs? For those of you that missed it, here are Hollies "own words" from page 312:

Hollie pretending to be smart by passing someone else's quote as her own:
It's a singularly utilitarian form of naricissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

It's a singularly utilitarian form of narcissism in which concessions are grudgingly conceded to obvious human limitations and perfected selves imaged in the form of flawless gods with absolute moral standards to which the fallible must aspire.

Hollie on Page 312:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

When Kurt Vonnegut asked the seemingly seminal question, "What are people for?", he bypassed the significant possibility: People aren't for. However, Kurt's 'Great Commandment' of the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent which I paraphrase, "Take care of the People; let the Gods take care of Themselves" should be rendered in lapidary permanence outside every public building.

Hollie doing some serious lying and cut and pasting on page 312:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

RuggedTouch's post from December 2010:

My suggestion: Eschew ill-fitting, off-the-rack hand-me-downs. You have equal access to a fancied spirit world and, thus, are entirely qualified to create your own fetching, custom-fitted, designer religion. Otherwise, Vonnegut's contribution to the religion business is well worth considering."

Here is the link to info Hollie stole from someone else:

How can there be freewill? - Page 13

Hollie, you have damaged your intellectual integrity so bad, how are we supposed to believe that anything you post on here is your own?

I've posted on other boards beside this one.

For all of your stalking and cutting and pasting (much of which you have selectively edited or removed from your cut and paste), you still haven't provided a single bit of evidence for your gods or for a 6,000 year old earth.

So whose credibility is really damaged.

I'm actually going to require that you scour the site for some of my older posts. I think you will find them to be effective in dismantling the pages of material you cut and paste from fundie websites. The other site was very active 3 or more years ago and the debates were with people who actually could compose coherent sentences, unlike you and your alternate log in.

So you are Rugged Touch?? Now the lies are getting deep. And if you are Rugged Touch, why pose as a female on this site. And why get upset with me for referring to your same sex attraction when you did the same thing to Yahya Sulaiman.

Rugged touch: Posted 2nd December 2010, 01:32
Re: Hapless Jackels

Quote: Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman View Post
"So if I'm fifteen, then which way is it possible:

1. That I lied about my age days before the subject of age even came up? Perhaps using psychic powers or a crystal ball?
2. That I lied about skipping grades? I wouldn't have thought you'd believe me to be that intelligent.
3. That I have hacked into the board and made it spit out false dates on the posts?
4. That you're really in the Matrix and none of this is even happening?"

Take your pick of absurdity. Given your delusions of persecution complex I'd guess you think it's #4.
#5.
Your parents are divorced - that's a difficult thing for a young teenager, which is why you stalk me from thread to thread, looking for a father figure. Or maybe #6 - you're a teenager who is discovering his sexuality and you find you are drawn to the company of men. You should know that many studies are finding that homosexuality among teenagers is a process of discovery.

Of course the stalking comments sound like you and the accusations of posters being teenagers fits your MO. Maybe I had it all wrong. Maybe you were formerly a man and have started the process to become Hollie.

 

[UltimateReality]

Well I guess I was wrong!!! You didn't plagiarize. Now I'm convinced it is you. Look what the other poster wrote about Rugged Touch.

Hapless Jackels - Page 2

Definitive proof right here it is you!!!

Yahya asks Rugged Touch: Do you ever answer people's questions? Or is every inquiry just a different type of excuse for you to pour out the freshest batch of excess venom and prejudice? I'm finding it hard to think of a single time when you've ever actually addressed anything I've ever said.

Now I am laughing my butt off. How many times have YWC and I said the same excact thing!!!! You haven't changed your methodology in 2 years. But why pose as a woman here? Were you kicked off the US Message Boards under another login for vitriol?

Another poster gave you this warning. I'm guessing you got banned...

"Salaams,

Ruggedtouch; this is your final warning, stop playing silly hate-filled games on this forum. This is not the place for the venting of hate, this is a rare place on the internet (and amongst Islamic sites) where you can actually have good dialogue, and you are tarring that atmosphere. All the extremism that is affecting your hate is NOT on this forum. Plus... you should recognize sometimes in the hate of others, we become what we hate.

If you persist then there will be no choice but a Ban.
(this post is not referring to just this thread in particular, but for compound reasons)

Peace"

 

[UltimateReality]

Rugged Hollymen Touch, Ain't Google a beach!!!

IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Are Khanazeer Allowed here?

Duende: "Like many regular posters, I've been lurking lately, since
RuggedTouch appeared, feeling bruised by this man's (it is only ever
men who behave this way) consistent attacks against Islam. Like
Hanan I felt upset so few people were standing up to him, but even
when I tried, he either ignores or doesn't even bother reading,
therefore protecting his biases and prejudices against rational
argument and even the presentation of proof negating his views. Who does that sound like????? Can you believe this bozo has been doing this since 2006???

Hollie, or whatever your name is, you seriously need to get a life. Got tired of spewing hate on the Muslims and thought you would try your hand at Creationists. Guess that works on some but this retired cop isn't falling for your lies and your fraudulent postings. I really seriously wonder what your real story is. I guess we will never know.

 

[UltimateReality]

And the Googles just keep coming. From 2005 on yet another Islamic Forum:

Sunni Muslim cleric killed outside Mosque - ShiaChat.com

Kadhim to Rugged Touch: Maybe if you'd listen for once to what people tell you here instead of shooting off your mouth, you'd realize that people here don't support such things. But that's your problem. You don't listen. You don't pursue nuanced knowledge. You just pursue maintaining your own preconceptions, your own "hiding places." Just like a 12 year old. Just like a "fanatic." You and your friends throw insults and taunts at people in the hopes of causing emotional injury. Tell me: Is this the behaviour of an adult? Or that of a 12 year old child, a bully on the playground. I hope someday you choose to elevate yourself. Sincerely. The world is bigger than the filter through which you choose to see it.

Rugged Hollie is like the Blob. He/sHe/it has taken in 7 years of garbage and is now able to copy and regurgitate all the insults he received back on others on new forums.

 

[UltimateReality]

So Rugged, it is now totally evident from your behavior for the past 7 years that you won't address this comment, but I just have to say... I beat you good. I figured you out. And even if I didn't win any evolutionary arguments with you because you refused to engage in a logical discussion, I have exposed you for the total FRAUD that you are. Any person on this forum with half a brain can see it. Seriously, you really do need to get a life.

 

[UltimateReality]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

 

[UltimateReality]

Madalyn Murray... | Facebook

Hollie Fitzgerald Babson??? Could it be???

Rugged Touch posts rant about removing IGWT off the coin.

Holly F Babson says "I would like a return to pre-1957 American currency"

On this love filled facebook page...

Anti-Theists. Pro Active Atheists. Opposing Religion. | Facebook

 

[Hollie]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

Nice work, don't you think? That was a piece written as a guest commentator.

You're not done yet, though. Your homework assignment is to find more and post it here.

 

[Hollie]

So Rugged, it is now totally evident from your behavior for the past 7 years that you won't address this comment, but I just have to say... I beat you good. I figured you out. And even if I didn't win any evolutionary arguments with you because you refused to engage in a logical discussion, I have exposed you for the total FRAUD that you are. Any person on this forum with half a brain can see it. Seriously, you really do need to get a life.

The gargantuan font thing is cute. I suppose a 12 year old thinks so. But aside from cutting and pasting from fuindie creationist websites, you're only proven that you can copy and paste material the you or the fundies have dishonestly altered in vain attempts to discredit science.

Religion is not science and trying to force your gods on others or trying to force your gods into an environmment of science is a hopeless exercise. That is why your juvenile tantrums cause you to behave the way you do. Look, honey, I want you to stay with playing video games and leave the definitions of science to grownups.

 

[Hollie]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

I've written a companion piece to the above.

I'll require you to do a search and post that link here.

Thanks.

 

[Hollie]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

Oh yes. I’m quite the Atheist. I’m actually much more pro-freedom as opposed to anti-religious. I only get anti-religious when fundie zealots presume to force their gods on others. Islam may represent the worst offenders of those who force their gods on others and the Taliban may represent the worst of the worst. But the Taliban and Christian creationist fundies share so much in common that the coveted prize of the worst of the worst is a dead heat… or maybe a dead end is the appropriate term.

You have been told to find and post the companion article to a guest comment I wrote previously that you linked to. Where is that article?

 

[UltimateReality]

So Rugged, it is now totally evident from your behavior for the past 7 years that you won't address this comment, but I just have to say... I beat you good. I figured you out. And even if I didn't win any evolutionary arguments with you because you refused to engage in a logical discussion, I have exposed you for the total FRAUD that you are. Any person on this forum with half a brain can see it. Seriously, you really do need to get a life.

The gargantuan font thing is cute. I suppose a 12 year old thinks so. But aside from cutting and pasting from fuindie creationist websites, you're only proven that you can copy and paste material the you or the fundies have dishonestly altered in vain attempts to discredit science.

Religion is not science and trying to force your gods on others or trying to force your gods into an environmment of science is a hopeless exercise. That is why your juvenile tantrums cause you to behave the way you do. Look, honey, I want you to stay with playing video games and leave the definitions of science to grownups.

Here is some of large font you are so fond of...

I really think you are done here. No, really.

 

[UltimateReality]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

I've written a companion piece to the above.

I'll require you to do a search and post that link here.

Thanks.

You REQUIRE me to do a search? I don't think you get it Dude. It's really time for you to go find some other unsuspected bunch and spew your hate on them.

 

[Hollie]

Rugged is quite the atheist. Wants to wipe out history. Take In God We Trust off the money. Pretend like it never happened.

What 'God' in America? | bloggie

I've written a companion piece to the above.

I'll require you to do a search and post that link here.

Thanks.

You REQUIRE me to do a search? I don't think you get it Dude. It's really time for you to go find some other unsuspected bunch and spew your hate on them.

You're upset. No need to be. You're just incompetent at doing task-based objectives.

You were instructed to perform a search as I required of you. Get it done and stop whining.

On the other hand, I'm more than willing to stay around and counter the nonsensical cut and paste you use to threaten people with your gods.

I want that link you were told to provide.