Creationists

[cbirch2]

and genomes are similar because the structures are similar, and DNA is like the hammer with which god constructs the house. So obviously god gave every animal a set of "heart genes", and such, because they need a heart.

This is similar to your belief about the similarity between the genomes of different species, correct?

God formed things out of similar substances and gave the substances different abilities and different looks.

Some hearts beat faster,some heart are bigger,some hearts pump more blood.

Wings,some wings cause flight, some wings are bigger,some wings flap faster,some wings don't allow flight.

Same with eyes,arms,and legs.

Everything points to design not chance.

So your stance is that god wanted all animals to have a heart and therefore he gave them a set of heart genes. and thats why some animals share characteristics. Not because theyre descended from eachother.

Correct?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I like the example of protein composition to refute this one.

So review: DNA is composed of nucleotides, three nuclotides form a codon, a codon codes for an amino acid, amino acids form proteins. Single mutations mutate amino acids. Most amino acid mutations dont change the overall structure of the protein, because a protein is thousands of amino acids long.

So these random mutations in the amino acid composition of certain proteins builds up as time goes on. The difference in the amount of variation in non-essential amino acids in two samples can therefore be used to infer the amount of time between them.

What we find when we look at certain proteins are just this. For example, Cytochrome C in every human has a nearly identical amino acid sequence. The similarities follow the evolutionary pattern, primates are slightly more varied, bacteria are much more varied.
'So this isnt a case of god having to change the structure for new function, the amino acid variations are useless. But the frequency of them can be used to determine how many generations have passed.

So....Is god just fucking with us?

If God exists and created all things he is not messing with us we just can't fugure out how he did it all.

It is nothing more then ignorance if man thinks he has all the answers, and we know we are not even close to having all the answers. So please show a litlle respect just in case you're wrong.

Which by the way you're respectfully.

 

[cbirch2]

I like the example of protein composition to refute this one.

So review: DNA is composed of nucleotides, three nuclotides form a codon, a codon codes for an amino acid, amino acids form proteins. Single mutations mutate amino acids. Most amino acid mutations dont change the overall structure of the protein, because a protein is thousands of amino acids long.

So these random mutations in the amino acid composition of certain proteins builds up as time goes on. The difference in the amount of variation in non-essential amino acids in two samples can therefore be used to infer the amount of time between them.

What we find when we look at certain proteins are just this. For example, Cytochrome C in every human has a nearly identical amino acid sequence. The similarities follow the evolutionary pattern, primates are slightly more varied, bacteria are much more varied.
'So this isnt a case of god having to change the structure for new function, the amino acid variations are useless. But the frequency of them can be used to determine how many generations have passed.

So....Is god just fucking with us?

If God exists and created all things he is not messing with us we just can't fugure out how he did it all.

It is nothing more then ignorance if man thinks he has all the answers, and we know we are not even close to having all the answers. So please show a litlle respect just in case you're wrong.

Which by the way you're respectfully.

Again, you just explain things away with wishful thinking.

 

[cbirch2]

I like the example of protein composition to refute this one.

So review: DNA is composed of nucleotides, three nuclotides form a codon, a codon codes for an amino acid, amino acids form proteins. Single mutations mutate amino acids. Most amino acid mutations dont change the overall structure of the protein, because a protein is thousands of amino acids long.

So these random mutations in the amino acid composition of certain proteins builds up as time goes on. The difference in the amount of variation in non-essential amino acids in two samples can therefore be used to infer the amount of time between them.

What we find when we look at certain proteins are just this. For example, Cytochrome C in every human has a nearly identical amino acid sequence. The similarities follow the evolutionary pattern, primates are slightly more varied, bacteria are much more varied.
'So this isnt a case of god having to change the structure for new function, the amino acid variations are useless. But the frequency of them can be used to determine how many generations have passed.

So....Is god just fucking with us?

If God exists and created all things he is not messing with us we just can't fugure out how he did it all.

It is nothing more then ignorance if man thinks he has all the answers, and we know we are not even close to having all the answers. So please show a litlle respect just in case you're wrong.

Which by the way you're respectfully.

No, you cant figure out how it happened. In my mind thats the perfect reason to believe evolution! why would you assume god just made creatures as they are right now. Woudnt he have more spectacular means.

Your the one claiming you know how it happened. Im claiming we have a good set of facts that point us in the right direction and should go from there. Your claiming that you know that god created humans and other animals as they are.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I mean seriously? God gave the entire universe to humans on earth???

There are billions of stars in this galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe. Even the stars you see at night are only a fraction of the stars in our local neighborhood within our galaxy.

We've even found planets outside of our own solar system. Hundreds in fact.

How exactly does that match up to your biblical story? Why did god give us a different solar system 7 billion light years away??

I can certainly accept the idea of a god, but he didnt just make people and animals as they are.

That should make you able to see how precious life is to him. He picks just a speck out of the universe and produces life on it.

Psa 8:1 To the Chief Musician, on the harp. A Psalm of David. O Jehovah our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth! You have set Your glory above the heavens!
Psa 8:2 Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings You have ordained strength, because of ones vexing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease.
Psa 8:3 When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established;
Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:
Psa 8:7 all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;
Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!

 

[cbirch2]

I mean seriously? God gave the entire universe to humans on earth???

There are billions of stars in this galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe. Even the stars you see at night are only a fraction of the stars in our local neighborhood within our galaxy.

We've even found planets outside of our own solar system. Hundreds in fact.

How exactly does that match up to your biblical story? Why did god give us a different solar system 7 billion light years away??

I can certainly accept the idea of a god, but he didnt just make people and animals as they are.

That should make you able to see how precious life is to him. He picks just a speck out of the universe and produces life on it.

Psa 8:1 To the Chief Musician, on the harp. A Psalm of David. O Jehovah our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth! You have set Your glory above the heavens!
Psa 8:2 Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings You have ordained strength, because of ones vexing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease.
Psa 8:3 When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established;
Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:
Psa 8:7 all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;
Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!

The catholic church thought the stars revolved around the earth until like 500 years ago. You realize every star is a sun right? And pretty much every sun has a set of planets around them.

God made all those planets for what reason? God made galaxies entirely separate from ours because....

 

[Youwerecreated]

I like the example of protein composition to refute this one.

So review: DNA is composed of nucleotides, three nuclotides form a codon, a codon codes for an amino acid, amino acids form proteins. Single mutations mutate amino acids. Most amino acid mutations dont change the overall structure of the protein, because a protein is thousands of amino acids long.

So these random mutations in the amino acid composition of certain proteins builds up as time goes on. The difference in the amount of variation in non-essential amino acids in two samples can therefore be used to infer the amount of time between them.

What we find when we look at certain proteins are just this. For example, Cytochrome C in every human has a nearly identical amino acid sequence. The similarities follow the evolutionary pattern, primates are slightly more varied, bacteria are much more varied.
'So this isnt a case of god having to change the structure for new function, the amino acid variations are useless. But the frequency of them can be used to determine how many generations have passed.

So....Is god just fucking with us?

If God exists and created all things he is not messing with us we just can't fugure out how he did it all.

It is nothing more then ignorance if man thinks he has all the answers, and we know we are not even close to having all the answers. So please show a litlle respect just in case you're wrong.

Which by the way you're respectfully.

No, you cant figure out how it happened. In my mind thats the perfect reason to believe evolution! why would you assume god just made creatures as they are right now. Woudnt he have more spectacular means.

Your the one claiming you know how it happened. Im claiming we have a good set of facts that point us in the right direction and should go from there. Your claiming that you know that god created humans and other animals as they are.

I have said it many times variations and natrual selection. There are variations in every family. Through genetic drift and natural selection has created the diversity we see today.

God created the families but left enough genetic information to allow adaptation and variations. natural selection and genetic drift has created the many differet breeds.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I mean seriously? God gave the entire universe to humans on earth???

There are billions of stars in this galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe. Even the stars you see at night are only a fraction of the stars in our local neighborhood within our galaxy.

We've even found planets outside of our own solar system. Hundreds in fact.

How exactly does that match up to your biblical story? Why did god give us a different solar system 7 billion light years away??

I can certainly accept the idea of a god, but he didnt just make people and animals as they are.

That should make you able to see how precious life is to him. He picks just a speck out of the universe and produces life on it.

Psa 8:1 To the Chief Musician, on the harp. A Psalm of David. O Jehovah our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth! You have set Your glory above the heavens!
Psa 8:2 Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings You have ordained strength, because of ones vexing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease.
Psa 8:3 When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established;
Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:
Psa 8:7 all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;
Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas.
Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!

The catholic church thought the stars revolved around the earth until like 500 years ago. You realize every star is a sun right? And pretty much every sun has a set of planets around them.

God made all those planets for what reason? God made galaxies entirely separate from ours because....

I'm not catholic. God created them yes, that answer would have to come from God.

 

[cbirch2]

If God exists and created all things he is not messing with us we just can't fugure out how he did it all.

It is nothing more then ignorance if man thinks he has all the answers, and we know we are not even close to having all the answers. So please show a litlle respect just in case you're wrong.

Which by the way you're respectfully.

No, you cant figure out how it happened. In my mind thats the perfect reason to believe evolution! why would you assume god just made creatures as they are right now. Woudnt he have more spectacular means.

Your the one claiming you know how it happened. Im claiming we have a good set of facts that point us in the right direction and should go from there. Your claiming that you know that god created humans and other animals as they are.

I have said it many times variations and natrual selection. There are variations in every family. Through genetic drift and natural selection has created the diversity we see today.

God created the families but left enough genetic information to allow adaptation and variations. natural selection and genetic drift has created the many differet breeds.

And like ive asked you many many MANY times, what mechanism ensures that genetic variations cant become too great?

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, you cant figure out how it happened. In my mind thats the perfect reason to believe evolution! why would you assume god just made creatures as they are right now. Woudnt he have more spectacular means.

Your the one claiming you know how it happened. Im claiming we have a good set of facts that point us in the right direction and should go from there. Your claiming that you know that god created humans and other animals as they are.

I have said it many times variations and natrual selection. There are variations in every family. Through genetic drift and natural selection has created the diversity we see today.

God created the families but left enough genetic information to allow adaptation and variations. natural selection and genetic drift has created the many differet breeds.

And like ive asked you many many MANY times, what mechanism ensures that genetic variations cant become too great?

DNA barrier and genetic drift i believe they only allow for so much variance. If an organism goes beyond the limits of adaptation it will die or become weaker.

Genetic drift through selective breeding creates breeds. But genetic drift has also helped in maintaining breeds in the wild. Over time traits are removed from the genepool. Lions have the genetic data for lions,tigers have genetic data for tigers so on and so on for every breed of organism.

We see evidence of recombination in humans ,that the information didn't go away or was there all along. That is another reason i don't believe in macro-evolution because who is to say when recombination can happen ?

That is why you can see black parents give birth to a white child and vice versa.

What do you think you can see with a large gene pool like the mutt ? But in smaller groups that is where genetic drift is most powerful in eliminating traits creating breeds.

 

[daws101]

Wannabe is slang.

What does WANNABE mean? - WANNABE Definition - Meaning of WANNABE - InternetSlang.com

yes it is ..your point!?

Look I rather stay on topic ,but you said it was proper English not slang.

no I didn't I said, "proper spelling" see post# 1755 this thread.
here's the quote: "too" is proper english "wannabe" is proper spelling.
"gonna" is slang. your ignorance is curable."

if your reading and comprehension are so bad that you can't even remember or look up what was said within the last 48 hours , your credibility on this topic is highly questionable!

 

[daws101]

Tiktaalik roseae: Meet Tiktaalik

fits all the criteria for beneficial mutation....

Tiktaalik and the Fishy Story of Walking Fish, Part 2


An in-depth look

by Dr. David N. Menton on

May 23, 2007

Tiktaalik and the Fishy Story of Walking Fish, Part 2 - Answers in Genesis

Instead of jumping to conclusions take a look.

http://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j21_1/j21_1_53-57.pdf

the article

in your link is not vaild, it's a rationalization and not science.

 

[daws101]

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or "appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

Argument from ignorance may be used as a rationalization by a person who realizes that he has no reason for holding the belief that he does.

The fallaciousness of arguments from ignorance does not mean that one can never possess good reasons for thinking that something does not exist, an idea captured by philosopher Bertrand Russell's teapot, a hypothetical china teapot revolving about the sun between Earth and Mars; however this would fall more duly under the arena of pragmatism, wherein a position must be demonstrated or proven in order to be upheld, and therefore the burden of proof is on the argument's proponent.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dude. In her mind, you just "proved" she is right.

just as I had planned!

 

[daws101]

When you look at life animals and humans it is very easy to detect design .

Only if you first presume a designer.


No. Having first presumed a designer, calling that "evidence" is question-begging.

But let's just allow the fallacy to slide for a moment ... the only "designers" we have verifiable evidence of are human beings. The only "designers" we can legitimately propose (you know, without just imagining one for the purpose) are human beings. If we understand that the only "designers" we have evidence of could not have designed everything, then we must look elsewhere.

If we look, and we see natural causes for effects, but see no (other) designers about designing things, then the evidence and valid logic leads to a conclusion that the effects we see are the result of the natural causes we see. Making up some designer that has no other explanation than "that's what we believe", is not logically or evidentially valid.

Just to remind you, I'm not saying that this "proves" there is no Creator, I'm not saying that there is no Creator, I'm just saying there's no verifiable evidence and/or valid logic to honestly propose, let alone defend, the notion that there is a Creator.

Savvy?

So how would you explain evidence that shows that intelligence was required to create something ?

What evidence?

Or are you speaking hypothetically?

Yeah house,medicine,car,telephone,computer,launguages, and they were all designed by the brain. But the brain was not designed or programmed by intelligence according to your beliefs. That does not sound contradictory to you ?

Everything in the body serves a purpose how is that not evidence for design ?

your arugement is specious : spe·cious adj \ˈspē-shəs\
Definition of SPECIOUS
1obsolete : showy
2: having deceptive attraction or allure
3: having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic <specious reasoning>
— spe·cious·ly adverb
— spe·cious·ness noun
See specious defined for English-language learners »
See specious defined for kids »
Examples of SPECIOUS
He justified his actions with specious reasoning.
<a specious argument that really does not stand up under close examination>
Forty years ago I was not yet thirty, and my father still held to the hope that I would come to my senses, abandon the practice of journalism, and follow a career in one of the Wall Street money trades. As a young man during the Great Depression he had labored briefly as a city-room reporter for William Randolph Hearst's San Francisco Examiner, and he knew that the game was poorly paid and usually rigged, more often than not a matter of converting specious rumor into dubious fact. —Lewis H. Lapham, Harper's, February 2004

you have no evidence of a designer ,your faith in one is not valid evidence.
if A "god" had indeed desiged ours or any brain, such a god would have started from scratch not piled one on top of another as science has proven.
if "god" had created us as the foremost life form on earth then why isn't our brain functionally and structurally very different from our closest relatives the apes?
if "god" was a truly great designer why did "god" intermix a sewer and a playground?


if that's not contradictory nothing is.

 

[koshergrl]

Look, wiki scholars.

You guys are fab.

 

[daws101]

Look, wiki scholars.

You guys are fab.

another bogus ASSumption...

 

[koshergrl]

You're not fab?

 

[daws101]

You're not fab?

your first sentence is a bogus ASSumption.
the second is a lame attempt at sarcasm.

 

[LOki]

If you can't see the contradiction in your reasoning i can't help you.

If you're going to say there's some contradiction in my beliefs (rather than, of course, the strawmen you assign to me), then you have to identify the contradiction.

Thanks.

 

[LOki]

Yeah house,medicine,car,telephone,computer,launguages, and they were all designed by the brain.

Presented as if I didn't address this, so ... ?

I'll just bet you find these beliefs you say I have very convenient.

Contradictory to what?

Everything in the body serves a purpose how is that not evidence for design ?

Your question has Texas Sharpshooting and question-begging premises.

You really need me to point out the contradiction ?

Yes. Be specific, and above all, intellectually honest about it.