Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[Billo_Really]

There is no game. You are just an ignorant bigot who has not yet put up a single honest post.

Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals, troll.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You just can't stop from lying. And it's none of Israel's god-damn business whether Gazan's have weapons or not. You cannot tell someone what they can and cannot do on their own property!

If you are an idiot, that might make sense to you, but since Hamas intends to use those weapons to try to destroy Israel, only an idiot would claim it is none of Israel's business.

 

[José]

Stop barking bullshit, for heaven's sake Billo!!

No palestinian leader accepted Israel's existence...

This handshake was the biggest farce in the history of the conflict:

 

[toomuchtime_]

Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals, troll.

There was nothing in your post to rebut. I just provided an honest assessment of you based on your posts.

 

[USAF 2023]

For the 4th time, you fucked up troll, I dunno! Why can't you tell us, troll?

Because ASSHOLE, he rejected Olmert’s proposal that Jerusalem become a INTERNATIONAL CITY FOR EVERYONE. This way, he wouldn’t have control of Jewish Holy Sites and Prevent Jews from visiting, it was proposed that Israel keep the Jewish quarter which was there for centuries, its 0.1 square Kilometers which was rejected and ABBAs Demanded Unconditional “ right of return “ including generations which by now makes up over 7,000,000 . Did I explain it; FUCK YOU

 

[Kruska]

Phillipines: lie

Please name something from the last 60 years. Or shut your Putinhole..

Look here - moron, if you don't know shit, then just shut up, and listen to those who know about history

Your initial statement: Then name one single territory or country the US has annexed.
Where did you state in the past 60 years?

July 4, 1946: The Philippines Gained Independence from the United States​

July 4, 1946: The Philippines Gained Independence from the United States | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

In WWII’s aftermath, July 4 also became Independence Day for the Philippines in 1946.

www.nationalww2museum.org

There were also commemoration stamps issued.

Now troll off - you uneducated, brainless and totally clueless - nitwit

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel was attacked. What part of this don’t you understand?

Ask what Israel was supposed to do after Nasser blocked the Straits and there will be no response.

 

[Kruska]

Ask what Israel was supposed to do after Nasser blocked the Straits and there will be no response.

Why did Nasser close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping? - BTW a "response".

After linking the recent mobilization of troops in the Sinai to deterrence against Israel for its reprisal attacks on the Syrian border against Palestinian militants, the only logical move for Nasser after occupying Sharm el-Sheikh was to not allow the passage of cargo that enhances Israel’s capacity to attack Syria.

US media are reporting that US Under Secretary Rostow told France’s Ambassador to the US, Charles Lucet, that all US efforts are trying to stop Israel from initiating a “hasty attack against Egypt”. And France’s Council of Ministers adopted a resolution declaring its support for this path to stopping Israel.

 

[USAF 2023]

Why did Nasser close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping? - BTW a "response".

After linking the recent mobilization of troops in the Sinai to deterrence against Israel for its reprisal attacks on the Syrian border against Palestinian militants, the only logical move for Nasser after occupying Sharm el-Sheikh was to not allow the passage of cargo that enhances Israel’s capacity to attack Syria.

US media are reporting that US Under Secretary Rostow told France’s Ambassador to the US, Charles Lucet, that all US efforts are trying to stop Israel from initiating a “hasty attack against Egypt”. And France’s Council of Ministers adopted a resolution declaring its support for this path to stopping Israel.

 

[USAF 2023]

Why did Nasser close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping? - BTW a "response".

After linking the recent mobilization of troops in the Sinai to deterrence against Israel for its reprisal attacks on the Syrian border against Palestinian militants, the only logical move for Nasser after occupying Sharm el-Sheikh was to not allow the passage of cargo that enhances Israel’s capacity to attack Syria.

US media are reporting that US Under Secretary Rostow told France’s Ambassador to the US, Charles Lucet, that all US efforts are trying to stop Israel from initiating a “hasty attack against Egypt”. And France’s Council of Ministers adopted a resolution declaring its support for this path to stopping Israel.

Nice try but no cigar. Nasser’s quotes
We are ready for War; The Waters are ours
The waters are ours. Sovereignty over the entrance to the Gulf can’t be disputed

 

[José]

Neither Billo, nor toomuchtime, nor Dogmaphobe understand the dynamic of ethnocratic conflicts.

I'm gonna try and explain because a daddy's gotta do what a daddy's gotta do:

Billo, in ethnocratic conflicts, the racial dictatorship is so incredibly more powerful than the natives of the land that it often has the power to force the native leadership to "accept" the existence of the ethnocratic state not really meaning what they say.

Let me show you a similar example that happened in your own country:

The native american chief Black Kettle.

Black Kettle

(1803-1868)
​

In 1861, Black Kettle went to a US fort and signed the Treaty of Forty Wise, "accepting" lead his people to the Sand Creek Reservation.

He didn't have any option but pretend he would accept the peace treaty because the power of the american racial dictatorship was too great. His people was starving in front of him because the colonists had expelled his people from his land and was killing all the buffalos.

This is exactly what happened 130 years later in Palestine. The PLO was exiled in Tunis and the only way Israel would accept Arafat's return to Palestine was through the PLO's formal "recognition" of Israel.

There was no other way to return to Palestine because just like America 130 years ago the jewish supremacist state was too strong for the PLO to force its way back to Palestine.

99% of the posters of this board, Billo, don't introduce the ETHNOCRATIC CONTEXT to analyse the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and without this fundamental PARADIGM without this essential CONTEXT absolutely nothing makes sense because this is a textbook example of an ethnocratic conflict.

What did Black Kettle and Arafat have in common?

Black Kettle, Arafat and Abbas now were/are leaders of SUBJUGATED NATIVE PEOPLE who were forced to pretend they accepted the existence of America/Israel because of the tremendous military, economic and cultural power of both racial dictatorships.

Despite the treaty signed by Black Kettle there were thousands of cheyenne braves who simply didn't accept the defeat and wanted to continue to fight the white man. In other words, the cheyenne society as a whole in 1861 still hadn't come to terms with the loss of their homeland just like the palestinian society never accepted the partition of Palestine.

For this reason, Black Kettle, just like Arafat and Abbas, engaged in the classic behavior of leaders of native peoples subjugated by ethnocracies:

DOUBLE-TALK... SPEAKING WITH A FORKED TONGUE​

If you were alive during most of the 18th and 19th centuries you would be able to follow the national debate that occurred in the american society about the sincerity of the words not only of Black Kettle but dozens of other native american chiefs that engaged in the same duplicitous, deceitful game:

They accepted the United States in ENGLISH and called their peoples to arms in their NATIVE LANGUAGES exactly what half the world correctly accused Arafat of doing.

I saw an interview Netanyahu gave to the BBC, when Arafat was still alive, in which he said exactly this:

The problem is that Arafat says one
thing in English and another in Arabic.​

And this is a fact, people... There are hundreds of transcipts of Arafat's speeches in Arabic that proves Netanyahu's accusation.

Accepting Israel's existence in English in front of CNN'S Christiane Amanpour and calling the martyrs to liberate Jerusalem in Ramallah, Hebron, Gaza, etc... speaking in Arabic.

This similarity between the behavior of Black Kettle and Arafat is not a mere coincidence, Billo... this is a common, recurrent pattern observed in dozens of ethnocratic conflicts around the world throughout the centuries.

You probably can't find two individuals more different than a 19th century cheyenne leader and a 20th century arab.

The only thing that explains their identical behavior is the ETHNOCRATIC CONTEXT in which both leaders found themselves in.

The US newspapers from the time debated Black Kettle's sincerity with headlines like this:

Does BK really mean what he says?​

See for yourself what WIKIPEDIA says about Black Kettle so you don't think I'm forcing this comparison:

Many Cheyenne warriors, including the Dog Soldiers, did not accept the treaty and began to attack white settlers.

Whether Black Kettle opposed these actions, tolerated them, or encouraged them remains controversial among historians.

Black Kettle - Wikipedia

In reality, just like Arafat and Abbas, Black Kettle was forced to walk a fine line between pleasing the US racial dictatorship that could bring untold misery to his people and the braves who wanted to continue to fight.

He had to avoid US reprisals and a possible rebellion of the braves AT THE SAME TIME so just like Arafat he had to resort to pure double talk. One thing in English and the opposite in Cheyenne.

During the years Billo, I have witnessed dozens of extremely long debates involving hundreds of members but mainly, you, Coyote, Shusha, toomuchtime, Sixties Fan and a fews others.

Sixties Fan, Shusha and toomuchtime on one side trying to convince others that Arafat was not being sincere and you and Coyote on the other insisting he was.

When I saw those debates I shook my head and thought:

Are these people for real??

Don't they know double talk is the standard behavior of native leaders in conflict with racial dictatorships? Don't they know they do it not because they lack character but because they simply can't lead their people otherwise (if Arafat were openly hostile to Israel he would be sent back to Tunis).

Billo, just like you can't understand the solar system without the heliocentric and gravitational paradigm you just can't understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without THE ETHNOCRATIC PARADIGM!!

Without it, you won't be able to understand the first thing about this conflict.

When this photograph was taken Arafat was being as treacherous as Black Kettle 130 years ago:

 

[Kruska]

Neither Billo, nor toomuchtime, nor Dogmaphobe understand the dynamic of ethnocratic conflicts.

I'm gonna try and explain because a daddy's gotta do what a daddy's gotta do:

Billo, in ethnocratic conflicts, the racial dictatorship is so incredibly more powerful than the natives of the land that it often has the power to force the native leadership to "accept" the existence of the ethnocratic state not really meaning what they say.

Let me show you a similar example that happened in your own country:

The native american chief Black Kettle.

Black Kettle

(1803-1868)
​

In 1861, Black Kettle went to a US fort and signed the Treaty of Forty Wise, "accepting" lead his people to the Sand Creek Reservation.

He didn't have any option but pretend he would accept the peace treaty because the power of the american racial dictatorship was too great. His people was starving in front of him because the colonists had expelled his people from his land and was killing all the buffalos.

This is exactly what happened 130 years later in Palestine. The PLO was exiled in Tunis and the only way Israel would accept Arafat's return to Palestine was through the PLO's formal "recognition" of Israel.

There was no other way to return to Palestine because just like America 130 years ago the jewish supremacist state was too strong for the PLO to force its way back to Palestine.

99% of the posters of this board, Billo, don't introduce the ETHNOCRATIC CONTEXT to analyse the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and without this fundamental PARADIGM without this essential CONTEXT absolutely nothing makes sense because this is a textbook example of an ethnocratic conflict.

What did Black Kettle and Arafat have in common?

Black Kettle, Arafat and Abbas now were/are leaders of SUBJUGATED NATIVE PEOPLE who were forced to pretend they accepted the existence of America/Israel because of the tremendous military, economic and cultural power of both racial dictatorships.

Despite the treaty signed by Black Kettle there were thousands of cheyenne braves who simply didn't accept the defeat and wanted to continue to fight the white man. In other words, the cheyenne society as a whole in 1861 still hadn't come to terms with the loss of their homeland just like the palestinian society never accepted the partition of Palestine.

For this reason, Black Kettle, just like Arafat and Abbas, engaged in the classic behavior of leaders of native peoples subjugated by ethnocracies:

DOUBLE-TALK... SPEAKING WITH A FORKED TONGUE​

If you were alive during most of the 18th and 19th centuries you would be able to follow the national debate that occurred in the american society about the sincerity of the words not only of Black Kettle but dozens of other native american chiefs that engaged in the same duplicitous, deceitful game:

They accepted the United States in ENGLISH and called their peoples to arms in their NATIVE LANGUAGES exactly what half the world correctly accused Arafat of doing.

I saw an interview Netanyahu gave to the BBC, when Arafat was still alive, in which he said exactly this:

The problem is that Arafat says one
thing in English and another in Arabic.​

And this is a fact, people... There are hundreds of transcipts of Arafat's speeches in Arabic that proves Netanyahu's accusation.

Accepting Israel's existence in English in front of CNN'S Christiane Amanpour and calling the martyrs to liberate Jerusalem in Ramallah, Hebron, Gaza, etc... speaking in Arabic.

This similarity between the behavior of Black Kettle and Arafat is not a mere coincidence, Billo... this is a common, recurrent pattern observed in dozens of ethnocratic conflicts around the world throughout the centuries.

You probably can't find two individuals more different than a 19th century cheyenne leader and a 20th century arab.

The only thing that explains their identical behavior is the ETHNOCRATIC CONTEXT in which both leaders found themselves in.

The US newspapers from the time debated Black Kettle's sincerity with headlines like this:

Does BK really mean what he says?​

See for yourself what WIKIPEDIA says about Black Kettle so you don't think I'm forcing this comparison:

Many Cheyenne warriors, including the Dog Soldiers, did not accept the treaty and began to attack white settlers.

Whether Black Kettle opposed these actions, tolerated them, or encouraged them remains controversial among historians.

Black Kettle - Wikipedia

In reality, just like Arafat and Abbas, Black Kettle was forced to walk a fine line between pleasing the US racial dictatorship that could bring untold misery to his people and the braves who wanted to continue to fight.

He had to avoid US reprisals and a possible rebellion of the braves AT THE SAME TIME so just like Arafat he had to resort to pure double talk. One thing in English and the opposite in Cheyenne.

During the years Billo, I have witnessed dozens of extremely long debates involving hundreds of members but mainly, you, Coyote, Shusha, toomuchtime, Sixties Fan and a fews others.

Sixties Fan, Shusha and toomuchtime on one side trying to convince others that Arafat was not being sincere and you and Coyote on the other insisting he was.

When I saw those debates I shook my head and thought:

Are these people for real??

Don't they know double talk is the standard behavior of native leaders in conflict with racial dictatorships? Don't they know they do it not because they lack character but because they simply can't lead their people otherwise (if Arafat were openly hostile to Israel he would be sent back to Tunis).

Billo, just like you can't understand the solar system without the heliocentric and gravitational paradigm you just can't understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without THE ETHNOCRATIC PARADIGM!!

Without it, you won't be able to understand the first thing about this conflict.

When this photograph was taken Arafat was being as treacherous as Black Kettle 130 years ago:

Great post - thanks

But it doesn't change the fact that the PLO/Fatah and several other Arab States have acknowledged the right of an Israel State to exist.
Hamas & Co. did NOT.
An neither did previous and e.g. the present Israeli government acknowledge/acquit the right of a Palestinian State to exist onto the 1947 defined boundaries.

Which brings us back to the existing issue and problem

 

[JoeB131]

You take our Lord seriously when you want to:

“ You are right... I find it hard to believe God cares about the Jews but still let the Holocaust happen. “

You mistake that for a belief in your sky man, that is laughable.

The Holocaust happened because God was too busy not existing.

 

[JoeB131]

Israel was attacked. What part of this don’t you understand?

The part where they stole Palestinian land and murdered Palestinian people for decades before they were attacked.

Quit pretending you are the bystanders.

They’ve been offered land for peace, you idiot. HAMAS turned it down.

Why can’t you understand that they don’t want their own land? They want every Jew dead and Israel washed out of existence.

Oh, I'm sure if the Zionist Squatters go back to Europe, Hamas will stop caring about them.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Why do the Palestinians have more of a right to wipe out Israeli civilians than Native Americans have to wipe out White settlers who "stole their land" here in the U.S.?

 

[Frankenstein]

While I'm sure the Zionists will exhaust much of the good will they have right now by bombing women and children, they will still have the same problem.

They are on someone else's land. The people who rightfully own that land want it back.



The Zionists aren't sure which buildings have the ammo in them. If they were, they'd have seen this attack coming.


I did.

Didn't see a death cult. What I saw was an organization fighting back against occupiers.

So the fact that arabs in Gaza (hamas) kill indiscriminately women, and children in Israel is fine, and Israel shouldn't respond based on the lie that Israel are on their land, I have shown you that Israel has laid claim to that land for more than 3700 years.

 

[Frankenstein]

The opinion of someone who believes the events of J6 were legitimate political discourse is worthless.

Talk to the cia and the FBI, my cousin was there and never went near the capital building. He said it was great until they brought in bus loads of agitators from the left who then infiltrated the peaceful protest and 1 half hour later the B.S started

 

[JoeB131]

Why do the Palestinians have more of a right to wipe out Israeli civilians than Native Americans have to wipe out White settlers who "stole their land" here in the U.S.?

You have it in reverse. Native Americans capitulated time after time, and signed treaties with the white man that white folks broke. Let themselves get herded into reservations that were such effective models of genocide that Hitler copied them when designing concentration camps.

The Palestinians are avoiding the model that the Native Americans followed. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

 

[JoeB131]

So the fact that arabs in Gaza (hamas) kill indiscriminately women, and children in Israel is fine, and Israel shouldn't respond based on the lie that Israel are on their land, I have shown you that Israel has laid claim to that land for more than 3700 years.

Again, a book with Giants and Talking Snakes in it isn't proof of anything other than if you call utter bullshit a religion, people will buy anything.

Hamas indiscriminately kills, but so do the Zionist Squatters when they bomb and invade places.

Talk to the cia and the FBI, my cousin was there and never went near the capital building. He said it was great until they brought in bus loads of agitators from the left who then infiltrated the peaceful protest and 1 half hour later the B.S started

Hmmm.... so why is it all the guys caught on tape were hard core Trump crazies, then?

 

[Seymour Flops]

You have it in reverse. Native Americans capitulated time after time, and signed treaties with the white man that white folks broke. Let themselves get herded into reservations that were such effective models of genocide that Hitler copied them when designing concentration camps.

The Palestinians are avoiding the model that the Native Americans followed. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Are those the only two options? Where does "agree to accept reality and live in peace" fit in with that? If those are really the only two options, I hope Israel helps them with the dying on their feet.

So, if tomorrow native Americans launch rocket attacks from a reservation and kill 700 White settlers in one day, what should be the U.S. Government Response?