Cuts to SS and Medicare

[WorldWatcher]

how do you think that helps? do you know how SS works?

Doubling the cap increases revenue into SS extending the life of the Trust Fund to get through the baby boomer bubble.

Raising the income cap, does not mean raising the benefit cap.

You know there is a benefit cap of $3627 (at full retirement age) for 2023. Right?

WW

 

[struth]

Doubling the cap increases revenue into SS extending the life of the Trust Fund to get through the baby boomer bubble.

Raising the income cap, does not mean raising the benefit cap.

You know there is a benefit cap of $3627 (at full retirement age) for 2023. Right?

WW

where does that money go though? SS payouts are based on what you pay in

are we not gonna raise the cap? or are we just gonna take more from those that earn to give to those that don’t?

 

[WorldWatcher]

where does that money go though? SS payouts are based on what you pay in

are we not gonna raise the cap? or are we just gonna take more from those that earn to give to those that don’t?

Hmmm...

People that have paid into SS for 45 years are people that earned. The very way you earn SS is by paying into the system. They are not - to paraphrase - people that don't earn.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

where does that money go though? SS payouts are based on what you pay in

are we not gonna raise the cap? or are we just gonna take more from those that earn to give to those that don’t?

It's one of a number of options to address the SS Trust Fund running out of money resulting in the cutting of benefits. Some option are:

• Increase the cap (politically doable).
• Increase retirement age with no grandfather (not politically doable). Then what happens to those that recently retired.
• Increase retirement age but only on younger workers say those under 50) to cut the amount of benefits they receive by decreasing their years of eligibility (might be politically doable, but since it would be 15 years before it would being to have an impact and the Trust fund shortage starts in 10 it doesn't help).
• Increase Revenue with a national sales tax. (A) not politically doable, and (B) taxes people for SS that are not eligible to draw SS security. So you have certain unions (i.e. Railroad), private pension plans, and certain state/city pension plans that don't pay into SS now - those not eligible to SS would be paying to support SS?
• Increase Revenue by expanding SS taxed income beyond "wages" to include passive income like interest, dividends, capital gains, etc.

So with the SS Trust Fund being depleted by 2034 and benefits having to be cut for current seniors, what is your suggestion that falls into the realms of (a) fair and (b) politically achievable. Details would be nice to review, not a bumper sticker.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

WW

 

[struth]

Hmmm...

People that have paid into SS for 45 years are people that earned. The very way you earn SS is by paying into the system. They are not - to paraphrase - people that don't earn.

WW

SS doesn’t earn anything..it’s not an investment

do you really not know how this works?

 

[WorldWatcher]

SS doesn’t earn anything..it’s not an investment

do you really not know how this works?

Yes, I know how it works. You are the one that made the comment that those receiving SS "don't earn". By definition SS benefits are earned by working the required number of quarters to qualify.

WW

 

[healthmyths]

At the very least. Or the cap can be removed!

And guess what? The employers will just add the additional fee to the consumers cost of goods and services, again ultimately we the consumers will pay.

 

[Aldo Raine]

how do you think that helps? do you know how SS works?

Funded by 6.2% taken from each check. Whomever you work for does the same. It is capped at a certain amount, somewhere like $160,000. Then you do not contribute anymore for the year.

Removing the cap means you contribute all year. Most Americans do contribute all year due to fact they do NOT make the cap limit.

 

[healthmyths]

SS doesn’t earn anything..it’s not an investment

do you really not know how this works?

Worse, the federal government counts entire SS/Medicare payments as GROSS revenue from which then payments are made and while more comes in now than goes out, the remaining amount is used for all other federal government spending.
SS is 2nd largest source of Federal revenue..

 

[struth]

Yes, I know how it works. You are the one that made the comment that those receiving SS "don't earn". By definition SS benefits are earned by working the required number of quarters to qualify.

WW

maybe you don’t know the word earn?

you don’t earn SS…by law you are entitled to benefits paid via tax dollars

 

[WorldWatcher]

maybe you don’t know the word earn?

you don’t earn SS…

Ah... I see, reduced to semantics.

When people have paid into a system for 45 years, they are not leaches getting benefits they haven't earned.

It's like my military retirement. I earned it though years of service, that retirement check is paid by taxpayers (a serious "Thank You" to all).

by law you are entitled to benefits paid via tax dollars

Correct, being able to continue benefits without cutting benefits to seniors means a change in the law.

I agree.

WW

 

[Grumblenuts]

the federal government counts entire SS/Medicare payments as GROSS revenue from which then payments are made and while more comes in now than goes out, the remaining amount is used for all other federal government spending.

Nonsense. "The remaining amount" gets used as collateral to borrow against for "other federal government spending" which is indeed typical of bank fraud or Ponzi schemes, yet legal now and accounted for. All are really just "accounts" held by the Treasury. All held separately by definition if nothing else. The words "full faith and credit" being the only substance left to the entire shell game.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Worse, the federal government counts entire SS/Medicare payments as GROSS revenue from which then payments are made and while more comes in now than goes out, the remaining amount is used for all other federal government spending.
SS is 2nd largest source of Federal revenue..

There is a little more nuance to it than "the government just spends it" (to paraphrase).

SS Revenues (tax income and interest) are invested in Treasury Bills that earn interest. Congress just doesn't get to spend the money. They can borrow against the excess (through the purchase special Treasury Bills) but that money has to be paid back with interest.

WW

 

[Grumblenuts]

Exactly. It is this "borrowing against" aspect that rationalizes jerks like Biden hypothetically "putting it on the table" time and again, so as to later retract it again, citing negative political pressure and all the while acting like some kind of fucking compromising hero or something. It's irresponsible for any President to suggest and serves as a standing invitation for some real jerk to go all the way down the line.

So long as this "borrowing against" remains allowed, Congress is invited somewhat to treat each account as though separate parts of the overall Budget rather than as funds to be kept completely separate from one another.

 

[healthmyths]

There is a little more nuance to it than "the government just spends it" (to paraphrase).

SS Revenues (tax income and interest) are invested in Treasury Bills that earn interest. Congress just doesn't get to spend the money. They can borrow against the excess (through the purchase special Treasury Bills) but that money has to be paid back with interest.

WW

Where is your proof? I showed a chart that described sources of Federal Revenue and SS made up 36%
Where is your proof? They called it "Sources of Federal Revenue"...

What are the sources of revenue for the federal government?

TOTAL REVENUES The federal government collected revenues of $4.9 trillion in 2022—equal to 19.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) (figure 2). Over the past...

www.taxpolicycenter.org

 

[WorldWatcher]

Where is your proof? I showed a chart that described sources of Federal Revenue and SS made up 36%
Where is your proof? They called it "Sources of Federal Revenue"...

Social Security Trust Fund Cash Flows and Reserves

Social Security Administration Research, Statistics, and Policy Analysis

www.ssa.gov

Revenues exceeding outlays are invested in Treasury Bills, basically the money is "loaned" to the government with the T-Bills then paying interest.

Excess is NOT spent to fund other operations with money that is then - well - just gone.

This is how when current SS tax revenues exceed SS benefit outlays, that money exists in the Trust fund that funds periods of higher than expected payouts over revenues. The current Trust has a butt-ton of assets, however those assets will depleted over the next decade unless action is taken.

WW

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Federal Budget of the U.S. Government groups funds into two major categories: trust funds and Federal funds.

All are paper "accounts" theoretically held by and within the U.S. Treasury. Trouble is the fucking Federal Reserve (private banks) remain ultimately, insanely, in charge of the entire scheme. So when one says:

I showed a chart that described sources of Federal Revenue and SS made up 36%

They are really "Federal funds" plus "trust funds" of which S.S. is but one "trust fund" and not "Federal Revenue" that may be treated as "Federal funds."

 

[Lakhota]

 

[struth]

Ah... I see, reduced to semantics.

When people have paid into a system for 45 years, they are not leaches getting benefits they haven't earned.

It's like my military retirement. I earned it though years of service, that retirement check is paid by taxpayers (a serious "Thank You" to all).



Correct, being able to continue benefits without cutting benefits to seniors means a change in the law.

I agree.

WW

no they get entitlements they are entitled to.

 

[WorldWatcher]

no they get entitlements they are entitled to.

Again semantics.

They earned the entitlement by paying into the system for 35 years.

I earned my military 'entitlement" by paying (with years of service) for over 20 years.

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Because you appear to want to play the semantics game you may have missed an earlier post:

It's one of a number of options to address the SS Trust Fund running out of money resulting in the cutting of benefits. Some option are:

• Increase the cap (politically doable).
• Increase retirement age with no grandfather (not politically doable). Then what happens to those that recently retired.
• Increase retirement age but only on younger workers say those under 50) to cut the amount of benefits they receive by decreasing their years of eligibility (might be politically doable, but since it would be 15 years before it would being to have an impact and the Trust fund shortage starts in 10 it doesn't help).
• Increase Revenue with a national sales tax. (A) not politically doable, and (B) taxes people for SS that are not eligible to draw SS security. So you have certain unions (i.e. Railroad), private pension plans, and certain state/city pension plans that don't pay into SS now - those not eligible to SS would be paying to support SS?
• Increase Revenue by expanding SS taxed income beyond "wages" to include passive income like interest, dividends, capital gains, etc.

So with the SS Trust Fund being depleted by 2034 and benefits having to be cut for current seniors, what is your suggestion that falls into the realms of (a) fair and (b) politically achievable. Details would be nice to review, not a bumper sticker.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

WW