DACA for the Wall?

[rightwinger]

Schumer offered Trump $25 billion for border security in return for DACA last year

Trump turned him down

Doubt you will see any offer now that Dems hold the House

 

[g5000]

Just the threat of immigration control has seen an increase in pay, an increase in jobs, and low unemployment.

Horseshit. Utter horseshit. The eight year long steadily improving economy has nothing to do with "the threat of immigration control".

This is exactly what I meant about shooting Bigfoot. Exactly what I meant.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[rightwinger]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

We need to address the whole immigration problem

Immigrants who are here
DREAMERS
Border security of which walls are a small part

 

[Crixus]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Better be. Because after all the fighting and bluster Trump will be signing a bill that includes amnesty for all illegals.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

Walls work best just outside Metro Areas. Much like the Green Line area in Israel. Make them high and thick and very hard to come over. Put sensors down to make it difficult to go under. But those are expensive. So, at some point, you go to the Multi layered dense high fence. But when you get to an area with low traffic like the middle of the desert, you use electronic measures like drones with Border Agents to cover a large area since you will have plenty of time to get in place to bust them illegal. In the end, boots on the ground is what really stops the illegal immigrant and all other things are support units to make his job easier and more efficient.

 

[OldLady]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

We need to address the whole immigration problem

Immigrants who are here
DREAMERS
Border security of which walls are a small part

I don't think walls are a small part of border security. They are a small overall part of immigration policy though. We need to change that asylum law so that people who got here illegally can't ask for it. That is going to free up the immigration court system and that MUST be done. I think if a child is born here to two illegal parents, the child should be the citizenship of the mother. There are only a few countries in the world that have our open ended provision for becoming a US citizen by birth.
We need to stiffen up on work visas and employers who hire those without one.
That and a wall to stop the walkers should help quite a lot. If border patrol didn't have to spend its manpower and energy playing tag with border jumpers, it could put more resources into customs, where most drugs come through.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Better be. Because after all the fighting and bluster Trump will be signing a bill that includes amnesty for all illegals.

And that would give the others more reasons to keep coming and coming and coming. I hope congress would never agree to that.

 

[80zephyr]

There are presently 30 "National Emergencies" in affect in the US. Some go back to 1979.
And Trump does not need congressional approval.

Mark

He can do any National Emergency and involve the US Military including State Side for 60 days. At the end of that time, he can only continue with Congressional Approval. Otherwise, he must pull all federal troops. I believe that there are units that don't fall under that limit such as the Army Corp of Engineers and the CBees.

Link?

If he declares a national emergency, what makes you think he only can use the military to proceed?

Mark

He needs funding. The Military has the funding. If he wants funding for contractors he's going to have to get it from the one place I doubt would give him the sweat off their .....well, you know and let's face it, Nancy has some really big ones.

Proclaiming a national emergency gives him the power to fund the wall.

Mark

And where does he get those funds from? Does trump just fire up the old Printing presses?

Yep. When what he is asking for is less than 1/2 the cost of an aircraft carrier, you betcha.

It will save us money in the long run. What other government project does that?

Mark

 

[OldLady]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Better be. Because after all the fighting and bluster Trump will be signing a bill that includes amnesty for all illegals.

And that would give the others more reasons to keep coming and coming and coming. I hope congress would never agree to that.

Yet the Wall is gong to stop all that! Isn't it?

 

[jc456]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

dems already turned it down.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

We need to address the whole immigration problem

Immigrants who are here
DREAMERS
Border security of which walls are a small part

I don't think walls are a small part of border security. They are a small overall part of immigration policy though. We need to change that asylum law so that people who got here illegally can't ask for it. That is going to free up the immigration court system and that MUST be done. I think if a child is born here to two illegal parents, the child should be the citizenship of the mother. There are only a few countries in the world that have our open ended provision for becoming a US citizen by birth.
We need to stiffen up on work visas and employers who hire those without one.
That and a wall to stop the walkers should help quite a lot. If border patrol didn't have to spend its manpower and energy playing tag with border jumpers, it could put more resources into customs, where most drugs come through.

I agree with most of what you have to say. The automatic citizenship does draw illegals to the US but not nearly as much as the prospect of work. Both needs to be addressed as you have stated.

The wall is only to slow the walker down, not to stop them. It buys the border patrol the time to get there and stop them. Well, in theory. But usually, if it's not a multi level then if they have reached the wall, they will have already scaled it and disappeared before the border patrol can get there and then it's a race to find him or here in the bushes, parked cars, streets, etc.. We need to see them coming and be waiting on them. Then let the scale the wall and pick them up as soon as they set foot on the US soil. Boots on the ground is still the most important part of the equation.

We need to temporarily add court officers, judges, procecutors and defense to get through the cases we have today. I heard that one Judge says she goes through 60 cases a day and has enough backlog for the next 10 years. That's unacceptable. Even an Immigrant deserves a speedy trial. If all the other things you suggest is done then that means the caravans will stop or severely cut down.

As for drugs, most Drugs come in through the various portals like in Trucks, Cars, etc. They come in in shipping containers off of ships. They come in from illegal flights by Aircraft. They come in with Drones at 50 to 100 lb loads. They come in in Cigar Boats. They come in in Yachtz. The bulks of the drugs coming in by the mules is a drop in the bucket compared to the commercial methods. Stopping the Slingshots and things like that is still done by boots on the ground where the Mexican Police has to do the arrest after our Border Patrol calls them. But the ones receiving the drugs that are catted over can be apprehended if you have enough boots on the ground. The guy with the grey jump suite with the 9mm driving a 4wd pickup is priceless.

 

[rightwinger]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

Walls work best just outside Metro Areas. Much like the Green Line area in Israel. Make them high and thick and very hard to come over. Put sensors down to make it difficult to go under. But those are expensive. So, at some point, you go to the Multi layered dense high fence. But when you get to an area with low traffic like the middle of the desert, you use electronic measures like drones with Border Agents to cover a large area since you will have plenty of time to get in place to bust them illegal. In the end, boots on the ground is what really stops the illegal immigrant and all other things are support units to make his job easier and more efficient.

I was hiking at the southern Arizona border about ten years ago. It was about five miles to the border. When we reached the border, there was just a wire fence. Not barbed wire, just wire

So we climbed over the fence and went back and forth a few times

When we returned to the parking area, there were border agents to meet us. They made it clear they were watching us and that we had better respect the border in the future

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Better be. Because after all the fighting and bluster Trump will be signing a bill that includes amnesty for all illegals.

And that would give the others more reasons to keep coming and coming and coming. I hope congress would never agree to that.

Yet the Wall is gong to stop all that! Isn't it?

It'll just slow them down,not stop them.

 

[80zephyr]

Just the threat of immigration control has seen an increase in pay, an increase in jobs, and low unemployment.

Horseshit. Utter horseshit. The eight year long steadily improving economy has nothing to do with "the threat of immigration control".

This is exactly what I meant about shooting Bigfoot. Exactly what I meant.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

We disagree.

Perception is everything. And right now, every illegal in America is in hiding.

Mark

 

[Daryl Hunt]

He can do any National Emergency and involve the US Military including State Side for 60 days. At the end of that time, he can only continue with Congressional Approval. Otherwise, he must pull all federal troops. I believe that there are units that don't fall under that limit such as the Army Corp of Engineers and the CBees.

Link?

If he declares a national emergency, what makes you think he only can use the military to proceed?

Mark

He needs funding. The Military has the funding. If he wants funding for contractors he's going to have to get it from the one place I doubt would give him the sweat off their .....well, you know and let's face it, Nancy has some really big ones.

Proclaiming a national emergency gives him the power to fund the wall.

Mark

And where does he get those funds from? Does trump just fire up the old Printing presses?

Yep. When what he is asking for is less than 1/2 the cost of an aircraft carrier, you betcha.

It will save us money in the long run. What other government project does that?

Mark

Right now, the House won't authorize a single dime to Trump. If he does declare an emergency he's going to have to rob peter to pay paul and I really don't want to be in is shoes when he starts misappropriating funds from the Military which is the only one with even any remote funds left over.

 

[80zephyr]

Link?

If he declares a national emergency, what makes you think he only can use the military to proceed?

Mark

He needs funding. The Military has the funding. If he wants funding for contractors he's going to have to get it from the one place I doubt would give him the sweat off their .....well, you know and let's face it, Nancy has some really big ones.

Proclaiming a national emergency gives him the power to fund the wall.

Mark

And where does he get those funds from? Does trump just fire up the old Printing presses?

Yep. When what he is asking for is less than 1/2 the cost of an aircraft carrier, you betcha.

It will save us money in the long run. What other government project does that?

Mark

Right now, the House won't authorize a single dime to Trump. If he does declare an emergency he's going to have to rob peter to pay paul and I really don't want to be in is shoes when he starts misappropriating funds from the Military which is the only one with even any remote funds left over.

A national emergency gives him the ability to fund. What good would such a procedure be if it didn't provide funding?

Mark

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

That ship sailed.

NO DACA.....AND we get a wall.

Fuck the commies.

Don't give them ANYTHING!!!

.

That'll get the votes. Way to go.

 

[BluesLegend]

The Democrats's goal is PERMANENT control of congress and the White House. Giving millions of illegals amnesty and the right to vote is how they plan to get it. Therefore you cannot trust them to negotiate in good faith on DACA.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Yeah, I'd be just fine with that.

The wall is a hoax. It won't affect the economy or produce any of the results the rubes have been fooled into bleeving.

The wall is vaporware. All hype.

DACA, on the other hand, would greatly benefit a lot of people.

So it's a more than fair trade.

Why is the wall a hoax?

A shutdown stalemate as Trump goes factual, Democrats illogical

Democrats understandably tend to shun these valid but hard-hearted arguments. Instead they insist vehemently that a wall, which many supported a dozen years ago, will inevitably be ineffective and must be regarded as “immoral.”

This first argument flies in the face of evidence. As American Enterprise institute’s Michael Rubin pointed out in 2017, Israel’s wall with the West Bank, Morocco’s wall with Algeria, India’s with Bangladesh, Hungary’s with Serbia and others have reduced illegal crossings to near zero. To the point that this year, Rubin reports France, Iraq, Lithuania, Estonia and Norway are putting up walls. “It is simply counterfactual to suggest that walls won’t work,” he writes, "willful subordination of facts to the politics of the day.”

Democrats aren't worried that a wall won't work. They are worried it will work.

Mark

Let's say you want a gun. You claim that if you have a gun, you will be able to shoot Bigfoot and the economy will magically improve.

You stump and stump, claiming, "Guns work!" You provide examples of guns being used to kill people. "Guns work!"

But you see, your entire belief system is built on the false premise that shooting Bigfoot with a gun will solve a particular problem.

It won't.

You are being hoaxed.

Excellent way to put it.

A physical barrier is a sensible part of the solution, though. Just not the ONLY solution. It doesn't have to be everywhere. Just where folks are pouring through on a daily basis.
It's equally important to do a bunch of other things not anywhere near the southern border at the same time.

Walls work best just outside Metro Areas. Much like the Green Line area in Israel. Make them high and thick and very hard to come over. Put sensors down to make it difficult to go under. But those are expensive. So, at some point, you go to the Multi layered dense high fence. But when you get to an area with low traffic like the middle of the desert, you use electronic measures like drones with Border Agents to cover a large area since you will have plenty of time to get in place to bust them illegal. In the end, boots on the ground is what really stops the illegal immigrant and all other things are support units to make his job easier and more efficient.

I was hiking at the southern Arizona border about ten years ago. It was about five miles to the border. When we reached the border, there was just a wire fence. Not barbed wire, just wire

So we climbed over the fence and went back and forth a few times

When we returned to the parking area, there were border agents to meet us. They made it clear they were watching us and that we had better respect the border in the future

You should be aware that once you cross over that he could have refuse you re entry without your passport. You don't need a passport to get out of the US into Mexico but you do need one to get back in. Lesson learned right?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Is this a compromise you'd accept?

Why or why not?

Illegal foreigners should never be Party to ‘deals’ being made within our government. Fuck that precedent.

Even in immigration reform legislation.