DACA

[BasicHumanUnit]

How is DACA taking in "all the world's children"?

With the aid if corrupt Democrats.
Under Obama we saw an epic increase in people crossing the borders. You act as though being born here illegally and with the intent to break laws equates to naturalization.
Help these children sure....but do it in their HOME country. And make THEIR country and THEIR parents responsible....NOT US taxpayers.

There are LAWS. LAWS were intentionally broken.

We MUST NOT REWARD LAW BREAKERS.

How do you think the millions of immigrants who did it LEGALLY feel about being put at the back of the line because of ILLEGAL immigrants?

Where's your compassion for people who LEGALLY applied for US citizenship?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

What is the law?

Are children culpable?

Irrelevant. What is the law?

 

[Coyote]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

What is the law?

Are children culpable?

Yes they are.

I was sent to prison as a CHILD.

Your ridiculous emotional bullshit is just that, BULLSHIT.

And Seawich is as clueless as you seem to be.

I don't know what you did to be sent to prison as a child... and, I have issues with the criminal justice system in some cases...but

But I'll ask you...how is a 3 yr old culpable for his parents actions? SHOULD he be?

 

[Coyote]

How is DACA taking in "all the world's children"?

With the aid if corrupt Democrats.
Under Obama we saw an epic increase in people crossing the borders. You act as though being born here illegally and with the intent to break laws equates to naturalization.
Help these children sure....but do it in their HOME country.

There are LAWS. LAWS were intentionally broken.

We MUST NOT REWARD LAW BREAKERS.

How do you think the millions of immigrants who did it LEGALLY feel about being put at the back of the line because of ILLEGAL immigrants?

Back to the original question: How is DACA taking in "all the worlds's children"? It's pretty specific and very narrowly defined.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There is no other act, much less criminal act in which children get to keep the proceeds of parental wrongdoing. Even civil acts, repossessions, foreclosures, in no case do children get to keep the proceeds of parental wrongdoing. It is up to parents to consider the effect their actions have on their innocent children. Parents should think, "suppose I bring my child illegally to the United States, and they get caught as an illegal when they are 30 years old. They will be deported. Maybe I better not do it."

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Yes they are.

I was sent to prison as a CHILD.

Gosh, it's been at least what 50, 60 years? When do you get out?
Prisons are too plush....Internet access too? pffffft

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

What is the law?

Are children culpable?

Yes they are.

I was sent to prison as a CHILD.

Your ridiculous emotional bullshit is just that, BULLSHIT.

And Seawich is as clueless as you seem to be.

I don't know what you did to be sent to prison as a child... and, I have issues with the criminal justice system in some cases...but

But I'll ask you...how is a 3 yr old culpable for his parents actions? SHOULD he be?

If a stranger dumped a 3 year old on your doorstep would you just keep it? Feed it, clothe it. Be responsible for it for the rest of your life?

Or call the police?

Be honest and then quit asking me stupid questions.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Yes they are.

I was sent to prison as a CHILD.

Gosh, it's been at least what 50, 60 years? When do you get out?

I was certified as an adult at 16 and got out at 20

 

[TemplarKormac]

I know you TK and you know I like you

Gorsh... I'm flattered.

But I don't see it quite that way...parents do what they can, to make the best future for their kids. It's human nature, regardless of nationality

Let me put it this way. These parents, in an effort to make a better life for their child(ren) have done the exact opposite. The parent is in a legally compromising position, and the child has to keep his tongue lest he or she expose their undocumented parent. That's not a better life, that's making your child live life in constant fear and uncertainty. That's not fair to the child. It's wrong.

To me, the child needs to suffer the same consequences as the parent even if they weren't aware of what their parents were doing at the time. They were all citizens of another country when they crossed the border. I get where you're coming from, but you see, I was taught that actions have direct and indirect consequences. I feel sorry for the child, I really do, but they need to learn the same lessons as their parents. Breaking the law is wrong. No better life is worth committing a crime for. That is not ensuring the best future for that child.

I suggest, that you as a liberal, start about making any undocumented people you know of aware of what options they have, instead of them constantly running and fleeing from the authorities. Namely the naturalization process or the refugee process. Any legal process that would grant both parent and child citizenship, not one or the other.

DACA was a president overriding the will of congress to make changes to our immigration laws. That is something that can't happen in my book. Congress should be the sole arbiter of who and what comes through our borders.

It isn't a matter of "human nature" it is a matter of "better judgement."

 

[pismoe]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

------------------------------------------------ silly heart felt emotion , feck that , use brains instead and deport these 'daca' ilk Coyote .

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Back to the original question: How is DACA taking in "all the worlds's children"? It's pretty specific and very narrowly defined.

That may be, but the real world result has been broad and catastrophic on American children who will have to do without all those resources that were directed to illegal immigrant children.

But I guess there's no compassion for AMERICAN CHILDREN

How many under privileged black AMERICAN children living in ghettos could all that money and all those resources have helped?

Again, your compassion comes over as politically biased.

 

[Seawytch]

Coyote, take heart. Even among people that support Trump, keeping Obama's DACA law in place has 75% support so it's only 25% of....what's his support at now, 35%?

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/170409_crosstabs_Politico_v1_AG-2.pdf

Heart? Lol

You think taking heart and being all emotional about it is going to Trump THE LAW?

LOLOLOL

Them coming out of the shadows WAS lawful. An executive order carries the full weight of the law until overturned or challenged in court.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

My feeling is this - these kids no NO OTHER LIFE then that of America

Coyote, you know me as a gamer, right (check Samus in my sig if in doubt)? Well when I was younger, I loved to use cheat codes to exploit the game to make it easier for me to win. Essentially I was gaining an unfair advantage. However, it took all the joy out of playing the game. It left me wanting after a while, so I chose to go back to playing the game the hard way.

Their parents exploited our legal system to grant them citizenship. To me that in addition to the parent(s), their life in America was stolen away. I find that unacceptable. There are right ways and wrong ways to do things here.

I know you TK and you know I like you

But I don't see it quite that way...parents do what they can, to make the best future for their kids. It's human nature, regardless of nationality. And there is plentiful evidence of hardship and danger overcome to do so. But regardless...whether you sympathize or see it as "gaming" the system - the kids had no choice. None. So should they be punished? That is why I support DACA and movements in that direction fervently. They had no choice. Culturerally they are as American as you or I.

Children are punished every day for what their parents do. Cars are repossessed, even if the car is used to take the child to life saving medical appointments. Homes are foreclosed upon and entire families are evicted onto the streets. Police break down doors in the middle of the night and arrest the family breadwinner.

The parents should think about what they are doing and not depend upon someone else's sympathy to right the wrongs they are doing. You see this as a failure of OUR society to help these children (many of whom are adults) when their parents should be held responsible for all harm that comes.

 

[Coyote]

Back to the original question: How is DACA taking in "all the worlds's children"? It's pretty specific and very narrowly defined.

That may be, but the real world result has been broad and catastrophic on American children who will have to do without all those resources that were directed to illegal immigrant children.

But I guess there's no compassion for AMERICAN CHILDREN

How many under privileged black AMERICAN children living in ghettos could all that money and all those resources have helped?

Exactly what are DACA recipients taking from "American" children?

Seems to me they are working and making their own way.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Coyote, take heart. Even among people that support Trump, keeping Obama's DACA law in place has 75% support so it's only 25% of....what's his support at now, 35%?

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/170409_crosstabs_Politico_v1_AG-2.pdf

Heart? Lol

You think taking heart and being all emotional about it is going to Trump THE LAW?

LOLOLOL

Them coming out of the shadows WAS lawful. An executive order carries the full weight of the law until overturned or challenged in court.

Trump can remove ANY Obama executive order with a simple swipe of the pen.

Period, end of 7th grade civics lesson.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Coyote, take heart. Even among people that support Trump, keeping Obama's DACA law in place has 75% support so it's only 25% of....what's his support at now, 35%?

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/170409_crosstabs_Politico_v1_AG-2.pdf

Heart? Lol

You think taking heart and being all emotional about it is going to Trump THE LAW?

LOLOLOL

Them coming out of the shadows WAS lawful. An executive order carries the full weight of the law until overturned or challenged in court.

What is "the law"? obama could not offer any kind of real help. He would have amnestied but he could not get that through congress. The Act is DACA Delayed Action on Childhood Arrivals. Operative word being DELAYED. The delay was granted by a president and can be ended by a president. The delay is over. GO.

Although I understand that the affected persons, who SHOULD have applied for adjustment and given years to do so, will not be affected until their waiver is up for renewal. There will be no more renewals and no more waivers. They either apply for residency or go. Simple. We don't know why they never bothered applying for residency. Well, we do know. They don't want to be bothered. They are supposed to be handed citizenship right along with their EBT cards.

 

[Coyote]

I know you TK and you know I like you

Gorsh... I'm flattered.

But I don't see it quite that way...parents do what they can, to make the best future for their kids. It's human nature, regardless of nationality

Let me put it this way. These parents, in an effort to make a better life for their child(ren) have done the exact opposite. The parent is in a legally compromising position, and the child has to keep his tongue lest he or she expose their undocumented parent. That's not a better life, that's making your child live life in constant fear and uncertainty. That's not fair to the child. It's wrong.

To me, the child needs to suffer the same consequences as the parent even if they weren't aware of what their parents were doing at the time. They were all citizens of another country when they crossed the border. I get where you're coming from, but you see, I was taught that actions have direct and indirect consequences. I feel sorry for the child, I really do, but they need to learn the same lessons as their parents. Breaking the law is wrong. No better life is worth committing a crime for. That is not ensuring the best future for that child.

I suggest, that you as a liberal, start about making any undocumented people you know of aware of what options they have, instead of them constantly running and fleeing from the authorities. Namely the naturalization process or the refugee process. Any legal process that would grant both parent and child citizenship, not one or the other.

DACA was a president overriding the will of congress to make changes to our immigration laws. That is something that can't happen in my book. Congress should be the sole arbiter of who and what comes through our borders.

It isn't a matter of "human nature" it is a matter of "better judgement."

See...I can't agree. Children should NEVER suffer the same consequences as their parents - not if they had no choice, not if they committed no crime. The child, by it's nature, is not culpable.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why do you want to punish children for the sins of their parents?

Which is the worst punishment? The children living in ignorance of the law? Having them face an uncertain future with their parents always on the run? Or sending them home with their parents and teaching them a valuable life lesson? Those children are the responsibility of the parent. It is not the government's responsibility.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Them coming out of the shadows WAS lawful. An executive order carries the full weight of the law until overturned or challenged in court.

Venezuelas Maduro is also issuing executive orders.....does that alone make them moral and just?

The opinion that Obama signed that executive order purely for political reasons has merit regardless.

 

[Coyote]

Why do you want to punish children for the sins of their parents?

Which is the worst punishment? The children living in ignorance of the law? Having them face an uncertain future? Or sending them home with their parents and teaching them a valuable life lesson?

I don't see that as a valuable "life lesson"...to me...the value is that they are trying to make the best of things - to become productive citizens in their own right. If they committed NO WRONG - what lesson are they being taught?