Dear Liberals: I Want a Divorce!

[Foxfyre]

They'd have to belive in individual responsibility first.

Folks bound for Liberalland seem to not place much importance on individual reponsibility. For them it is all collective effort to extend compassion and understanding to the less unfortunate. And they don't seem to care how or why the ranks of the less fortunate continue to swell and multiply. They are better people than those in Conservativeland--nicer, more compassionate, more caring, more in touch with humanity, etc. etc. etc. It will be wonderful for them to have their own country.

They will still have us in Conservativeland to accuse of all sorts of evil things, but blessedly, once the divorce is finalized, we won't have to hear it anymore.

The only downside is our Conservative friends who thoroughly enjoy and seem to live for insulting liberals are going to have to make a tough decision--here where there won't be much of anybody for them to insult? Or there?

Nope not really...but then as in every 'Community'? There's going to be disagreement and dissention...outcome depends upon how it's dealt with from the start?

Oh we are going to have our disagreements for sure. Those of us who want certain zoning laws for instance may have to work at it to persuade our hard core Libertarians who would see such laws as being too restrictive of private property rights. Certainly the Founders didn't start out agreeing on every issue and spent years thrashing out reasonable compromises that all could agree to live with.

The refreshing thing, however, is that both sides will be able to actually articulate and express a reasoned argument to defend their points of view. I am hoping that pages of schoolyard insults and snotty sound bites on our message boards will be a thing of the past.

 

[The T]

Folks bound for Liberalland seem to not place much importance on individual reponsibility. For them it is all collective effort to extend compassion and understanding to the less unfortunate. And they don't seem to care how or why the ranks of the less fortunate continue to swell and multiply. They are better people than those in Conservativeland--nicer, more compassionate, more caring, more in touch with humanity, etc. etc. etc. It will be wonderful for them to have their own country.

They will still have us in Conservativeland to accuse of all sorts of evil things, but blessedly, once the divorce is finalized, we won't have to hear it anymore.

The only downside is our Conservative friends who thoroughly enjoy and seem to live for insulting liberals are going to have to make a tough decision--here where there won't be much of anybody for them to insult? Or there?

Nope not really...but then as in every 'Community'? There's going to be disagreement and dissention...outcome depends upon how it's dealt with from the start?

Oh we are going to have our disagreements for sure. Those of us who want certain zoning laws for instance may have to work at it to persuade our hard core Libertarians who would see such laws as being too restrictive of private property rights. Certainly the Founders didn't start out agreeing on every issue and spent years thrashing out reasonable compromises that all could agree to live with.

The refreshing thing, however, is that both sides will be able to actually articulate and express a reasoned argument to defend their points of view. I am hoping that pages of schoolyard insults and snotty sound bites on our message boards will be a thing of the past.

In fact? there were some very nasty heated disagreements among the Founders...it wasn't Kumbaya with them either as the members of Liberalliand seem to think...in fact it took until 1789 (about 8 years AFTER we kicked the Brits out)...to have all 13 colonies onboard.

 

[Foxfyre]

Nope not really...but then as in every 'Community'? There's going to be disagreement and dissention...outcome depends upon how it's dealt with from the start?

Oh we are going to have our disagreements for sure. Those of us who want certain zoning laws for instance may have to work at it to persuade our hard core Libertarians who would see such laws as being too restrictive of private property rights. Certainly the Founders didn't start out agreeing on every issue and spent years thrashing out reasonable compromises that all could agree to live with.

The refreshing thing, however, is that both sides will be able to actually articulate and express a reasoned argument to defend their points of view. I am hoping that pages of schoolyard insults and snotty sound bites on our message boards will be a thing of the past.

In fact? there were some very nasty heated disagreements among the Founders...it wasn't Kumbaya with them either as the members of Liberalliand seem to think...in fact it took until 1789 (about 8 years AFTER we kicked the Brits out)...to have all 13 colonies onboard.

Yep, but I would have relished being in on those debates however heated. (I wasn't invited, alas.) I thoroughly enjoy a good test of opposing positions artfully and competently expressed, and admire any who can offer that whether or not we come to an agreement.

I don't enjoy the schoolyard insult fests, insulting sound bites, and drive by sniper posts from snotty people. But that's just me.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If you want to have an enjoyable, creative, interesting and thought-provoking discussion, you ought to begin it with something less insulting.......more creative and more interesting than what you started this thread with.

You basically took a shit and want others to play with it and smile. Try harder...........you might just get what you seek.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you want to have an enjoyable, creative, interesting and thought-provoking discussion, you ought to begin it with something less insulting.......more creative and more interesting than what you started this thread with.

You basically took a shit and want others to play with it and smile. Try harder...........you might just get what you seek.

You know, for some of you, I doubt there IS anything short of left wing looney land that would not be insulting to you.

I wrote the divorce agreement tongue-in-cheek that a conservative would want because I am conservative. But of course that is not acceptable to a liberal who hates all or most conservative concepts.

When anybody has questioned anything specific on the list, I have defend each point. Such as why Conservativeland should have the Constitution as it was intended to be by the Founders, the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. I spelled out that we would USE the Pledge, our school children would memorize and recite it, and we would teach our children what the flag symbolizes and why it should not be disrespected and teach them the proper protocol to respect it. And how the National Anthem addresses that flag and why it brings a lump to the throat of every conservative when they stand at attention when it is played.

Liberals reject most of the concepts of American exceptionalism that the Founders intended for the Constitution to promote and defend. I haven't found a liberal who even understands American exceptionalism, much less embraces it, so you guys need to write a Constitution that more closely reflects your views

Not a single liberal has been able to speak up for why they love, respect, or revere any of those things. You could have done that. But instead you continue to whine and object to the subject being brought up at all, and be offended even in a fun-to-do philosophical exercise. You seem incapable of conceiving and adopting symbols and rituals that more closely reflect your point of view of what a nation should be.

 

[Foxfyre]

And with that, Mr. Foxfyre and I are off to the wilderness for a couple of days. We shall return mid day to early afternoon on Saturday and, if the thread is still alive, will catch up then.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If you want to have an enjoyable, creative, interesting and thought-provoking discussion, you ought to begin it with something less insulting.......more creative and more interesting than what you started this thread with.

You basically took a shit and want others to play with it and smile. Try harder...........you might just get what you seek.

You know, for some of you, I doubt there IS anything short of left wing looney land that would not be insulting to you.

I wrote the divorce agreement tongue-in-cheek that a conservative would want because I am conservative. But of course that is not acceptable to a liberal who hates all or most conservative concepts.

When anybody has questioned anything specific on the list, I have defend each point. Such as why Conservativeland should have the Constitution as it was intended to be by the Founders, the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. I spelled out that we would USE the Pledge, our school children would memorize and recite it, and we would teach our children what the flag symbolizes and why it should not be disrespected and teach them the proper protocol to respect it. And how the National Anthem addresses that flag and why it brings a lump to the throat of every conservative when they stand at attention when it is played.

Liberals reject most of the concepts of American exceptionalism that the Founders intended for the Constitution to promote and defend. I haven't found a liberal who even understands American exceptionalism, much less embraces it, so you guys need to write a Constitution that more closely reflects your views

Not a single liberal has been able to speak up for why they love, respect, or revere any of those things. You could have done that. But instead you continue to whine and object to the subject being brought up at all, and be offended even in a fun-to-do philosophical exercise. You seem incapable of conceiving and adopting symbols and rituals that more closely reflect your point of view of what a nation should be.

I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood. Did you write the divorce agreement in the OP? Is that your work?

I feel so silly now. All along I thought you got that from somewhere else. I must apologize to you for questioning your creativity.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If you want to have an enjoyable, creative, interesting and thought-provoking discussion, you ought to begin it with something less insulting.......more creative and more interesting than what you started this thread with.

You basically took a shit and want others to play with it and smile. Try harder...........you might just get what you seek.

You know, for some of you, I doubt there IS anything short of left wing looney land that would not be insulting to you.

I wrote the divorce agreement tongue-in-cheek that a conservative would want because I am conservative. But of course that is not acceptable to a liberal who hates all or most conservative concepts.

When anybody has questioned anything specific on the list, I have defend each point. Such as why Conservativeland should have the Constitution as it was intended to be by the Founders, the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. I spelled out that we would USE the Pledge, our school children would memorize and recite it, and we would teach our children what the flag symbolizes and why it should not be disrespected and teach them the proper protocol to respect it. And how the National Anthem addresses that flag and why it brings a lump to the throat of every conservative when they stand at attention when it is played.

Liberals reject most of the concepts of American exceptionalism that the Founders intended for the Constitution to promote and defend. I haven't found a liberal who even understands American exceptionalism, much less embraces it, so you guys need to write a Constitution that more closely reflects your views

Not a single liberal has been able to speak up for why they love, respect, or revere any of those things. You could have done that. But instead you continue to whine and object to the subject being brought up at all, and be offended even in a fun-to-do philosophical exercise. You seem incapable of conceiving and adopting symbols and rituals that more closely reflect your point of view of what a nation should be.

You are too far off base. The drudgery that we'd have to endure to bring enlightenment to you is far too great a price to pay. It could be done.........but you'd need to be deprogrammed first.

 

[kwc57]

If you want to have an enjoyable, creative, interesting and thought-provoking discussion, you ought to begin it with something less insulting.......more creative and more interesting than what you started this thread with.

You basically took a shit and want others to play with it and smile. Try harder...........you might just get what you seek.

You know, for some of you, I doubt there IS anything short of left wing looney land that would not be insulting to you.

I wrote the divorce agreement tongue-in-cheek that a conservative would want because I am conservative. But of course that is not acceptable to a liberal who hates all or most conservative concepts.

When anybody has questioned anything specific on the list, I have defend each point. Such as why Conservativeland should have the Constitution as it was intended to be by the Founders, the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. I spelled out that we would USE the Pledge, our school children would memorize and recite it, and we would teach our children what the flag symbolizes and why it should not be disrespected and teach them the proper protocol to respect it. And how the National Anthem addresses that flag and why it brings a lump to the throat of every conservative when they stand at attention when it is played.

Liberals reject most of the concepts of American exceptionalism that the Founders intended for the Constitution to promote and defend. I haven't found a liberal who even understands American exceptionalism, much less embraces it, so you guys need to write a Constitution that more closely reflects your views

Not a single liberal has been able to speak up for why they love, respect, or revere any of those things. You could have done that. But instead you continue to whine and object to the subject being brought up at all, and be offended even in a fun-to-do philosophical exercise. You seem incapable of conceiving and adopting symbols and rituals that more closely reflect your point of view of what a nation should be.

You are too far off base. The drudgery that we'd have to endure to bring enlightenment to you is far too great a price to pay. It could be done.........but you'd need to be deprogrammed first.

Soooo, in other words.......you got nothin'. Just say so and find another bridge to live under troll.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You want some attention, dummy?

 

[Borillar]

(Disclaimer: This is an adaptation of a divorce agreement that has been circulating around the internet for awhile.)

To All My Dearest Beloved Liberal, Leftist, Social Progressive, Regressive, Marxist, and Liberation Theologist Friends:

Since we are not going to get gasoline back to $1.50 per gallon and coffee to $2.00 per pound, it is time to divide up our common property and split the sheets so to speak. To wit I propose the following:

DIVORCE AGREEMENT​

WHEREAS, we have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids and for sake of future generations, but the whole of this latest election process has revealed that our relationship has clearly run its course, and

WHEREAS, our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all,

THEREFORE let's end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is the suggested model separation agreement:

1. Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass apportioned according to numerical representation. You can have California, Oregon, and Washington State. We'll take all the rest.

2. We don't like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them.

3. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

4. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military.

5. We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with all the wind, solar, and bio-diesel.

6. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.

7. We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street.

8. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless homeboys, hippies, druggies, illegal aliens, unions, peaceniks, war protesters, and the OSW groups.

9. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.

10. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood

11. You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us or hit back when we are threatened or attacked.

14. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness, and Shirley McLain. You can also have the U.N., but we will no longer be paying the bill.

13. We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.

14. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Chevy Volt you can find.

15. You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any doctors to deliver it. We'll continue to believe that healthcare is more affordable and more excellent in a free market system.

16. We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", "God Bless America", and "The National Anthem."

17. You get "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya," or "We Are the World".

18. We'll practice trickledown economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

19. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our constitution and our flag.

Please sign and pass it on if you will agree to this equitable distribution of property, values, and practices.

In the spirit of friendly parting, we will arrange for a community picnic in about 10 years to compare notes and see how each other are doing.

Sincerely,

Your Conservative Friends


P.S.: Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, and Jane Fonda with you.

P.S.S..: And you won't have to "Press 1 for English" when you call our country.

I voted for no divorce a few days ago. I still feel that way. You claim over and over that nobody has answered your points, so I thought I'd revisit your first post and respond to them.

#1. By numerical distribution, we would get a lot more than just the West coastal states. Even in so called "red" states there are sizable liberal populations. Really, there are no red and blue states - just shades of purple. But since this is just a "friendly" thought exercize, Conservastan can have the Red states and the liberals, moderates and independents will take the Blue states.

#2. Just about all taxes redistribute money. Got to pay for the infrastructure, Military, and social programs somehow. How are things going to be paid for in Conservastan? Bake sales? Donations?

#3. I'll gladly take the liberal judges and ACLU. Got to have someone advocating for our civil liberties. You can take Roberts, Alito, and the other conservative activist rubber stamps.

#4. Don't know where you get the idea that all liberals hate guns. I own quite a few myself. Enjoy shooting sports and hunting. I'll keep my guns, thank you very much. War is something nobody loves or wants, except maybe for conservative or neocon chickenhawks who are always advocating invading countries. "Bomb bomb bomb Iran". However, liberals love their country and will defend it, so we'll keep the military as well. Liberals don't advocate lawlessness, so we'll keep our police too.

#5. Hard to believe that after the recent unpleasantness in the gulf that you are still pushing to drill, drill, drill without any safeguards. Guess you can have the oil slicks and contaminated fisheries. Not all liberals fall into the environmentalist camp either. I would say that most of us would accept more drilling with proper safeguards and good stewardship rather than just letting the oil companies do whatever they please. I would like to make much greater use of natural gas too.

#6. Sure. You can have all the conservative blowhards like Rush, Hannity, Savage, Beck, etc. Bet you'll need a pretty damn big bus to move them too.

#7. You can have the laissez-faire capitalism you dream of, free of any regulation or safeguard. We will keep our mixed, regulated economy that has been the economic powerhouse of the world for decades. You can have Walmart, we'll keep the local small businesses. You can keep the vulture capitalists, we'll keep the venture capitalists. As far as corporations go, I think they will probably want to stay where patent laws will be enforced. I suppose that there will be a lot of quick buck hucksters and schemers that will want the no regulation paradise of Conservastan though.

#8. OK, I get it. You love America. You just hate Americans. You don't want to give anyone a hand up. You would tell a person without legs to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Anyone down on their luck must be a liberal. Anyone who is unemployed, put down, picked on, or disadvantaged must be a liberal and therefore outcast.

#9. If you are referring to Sarah Palin, you can have her. Please! And the greedy CEO's who can run their companies into the ground and get away with their golden parachutes... Yeah, you can have those too. Not all rednecks are conservative, but you can have the conservative ones.

#10. As a Christian, I find it very offensive that you think Conservatives somehow "own" God. I'll keep my savior and my Bible. You can have your "Supply-side Jesus". I suppose that the conservative actors will be upset that they will have to live in Liberal USA in order to work. I guess you can have the corpses of Reagan and Heston. You can also have Fox news.

#11. We'll maintain good relations with the rest of the world whenever possible. We reserve the right to defend our territories and interests. We'll keep the Nukes. Sounds like you guys can't be trusted with them. Bunch of trigger happy cowboys shooting first and asking questions later.

#12. Liberals believe in the 1st amendment right to freedom of religion. We can believe in whatever we want, whatever the concept of God is - from hairy thunderer to cosmic muffin, or no God at all. I suppose the Conservastan concept of freedom of religion is that you have the freedom to belong to an approved Christian denomination. Oh, do you guys get the Mormons? The Jehovah's witnesses? I imagine a lot of them are conservative, but their religions are not very orthodox.

#13. You get the Judeo-Christian values? Which ones are those? A lot of them seem counter to the things you espouse. Capitalism seems to be based a great deal upon coveting. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but you espouse attacking other countries. The Bible says to pray in private, but you want public prayer in schools. The Bible says not to put any other gods before God. Your god is money.

#14. Conservatives are all about conspicuous consumption, aren't they? Liberals will drive whatever makes sense for themselves and their families. Odd that conservatives don't want to conserve gas (or any other natural resource).

#15. What you think doesn't seem to be very factual. Our so called free market system of healthcare leaves millions without healthcare. Well, I suppose that without all the repub obstruction, we can finally pass single payer healthcare and join the rest of the industrial world. I suppose there will be some opportunistic doctors that will want to cater to the rich in Conservastan. The rich will need their facelifts, boob enhancements, liposuctions, and prescriptions for viagra.

#16. We'll keep "This Land is Your Land", "America the Beautiful", and the National anthem.

#17. I imagine we'll get the bulk of music. You can keep Ted Nugent and Lynyrd Skynyrd ( although I really like Skynyrd) and some of the redneck country stuff. We'll keep the rest.

#18. You can get rich people to piss down your backs and then tell you it's raining. You'll believe it and like it.

#19. Seems you're the ones all offended and wanting to leave. We'll keep our history, warts and all. You can have the whitewashed version. You can't break up the UNITED STATES and then call the fractured remains by that name. You can call yours Conservastan or Teabaggertopia or Jeezusland or some such. Same with the flag. Once the country is split up, the flag becomes meaningless. If you want a pledge of alliegence to Teabaggerstan, you'll have to redact the words "United", "One Nation", and "indivisible" since you want to throw that all away. And the Constitution? Why do you want that? To conservatives like George Bush, the Constitution is "just a fucking piece of paper".

Conservatives are all about the founders and their "original intent". The constitution was arrived at by debate and lots of compromise. Well, if conservatives want to take the country back to the way it was at its founding, I think we are going to gain a great deal of people coming to the liberal states. After all, the founder's version of America included slavery, women as little more than chattel, and only wealthy, white landowners with the right to vote. Conservastan can have that. We on the liberal side will take the Constitution as it exists now, with all the liberal amendments. We might even make a couple more amendments - Pass the ERA, and define money as property - not speech, and define corporations as property - not people. Now that I think about it, about the only parts of the constitution that conservatives like are the second half of the 2nd amendment (always ignore the well regulated militia part), and the 10th amendment reserving State's rights or to the individual (except they don't want women to have privacy rights).

So, if you want to pack up your bags and leave, fine. Go in peace and God bless. Don't expect much agreement in what you proposed though.

 

[Foxfyre]

To Lone Laugher: I wrote the intro to the divorce agreement and did some heavy editing on several of the points listed. The concept did not originate with me, and I did use some of the phrases as was from another e-mail because I couldn't improve on them, but quite a bit is my own work and definitely is not a cut and paste.

To Borrillar, good try, but you're going to have to do better than that. We cannot negotiate until you are able to make a good argument for why the liberals should have something that the Conservatives are asking for. For instance, I posted the data on how many liberals and conservatives there are. Dividing via red state and blue state won't cut it by the numbers. So you'll have to refine your argument to really make a case assuming that we will have an impartial judge who will make his/her decision based on the quality of the aguments.

Another for instance, I have made our case for why we should get the hiistory, Constitution, flag, Pledge of Allegiance, and National Anthem.

You can make your case by showing how much modern day liberals articulate and defend American Exceptionalism upon which all of those are based.

 

[Pheonixops]

(Disclaimer: This is an adaptation of a divorce agreement that has been circulating around the internet for awhile.)

To All My Dearest Beloved Liberal, Leftist, Social Progressive, Regressive, Marxist, and Liberation Theologist Friends:

Since we are not going to get gasoline back to $1.50 per gallon and coffee to $2.00 per pound, it is time to divide up our common property and split the sheets so to speak. To wit I propose the following:

DIVORCE AGREEMENT​

WHEREAS, we have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids and for sake of future generations, but the whole of this latest election process has revealed that our relationship has clearly run its course, and

WHEREAS, our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all,

THEREFORE let's end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is the suggested model separation agreement:

1. Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass apportioned according to numerical representation. You can have California, Oregon, and Washington State. We'll take all the rest.

2. We don't like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them.

3. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

4. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military.

5. We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with all the wind, solar, and bio-diesel.

6. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.

7. We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street.

8. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless homeboys, hippies, druggies, illegal aliens, unions, peaceniks, war protesters, and the OSW groups.

9. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.

10. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood

11. You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us or hit back when we are threatened or attacked.

14. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness, and Shirley McLain. You can also have the U.N., but we will no longer be paying the bill.

13. We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.

14. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Chevy Volt you can find.

15. You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any doctors to deliver it. We'll continue to believe that healthcare is more affordable and more excellent in a free market system.

16. We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", "God Bless America", and "The National Anthem."

17. You get "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya," or "We Are the World".

18. We'll practice trickledown economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

19. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our constitution and our flag.

Please sign and pass it on if you will agree to this equitable distribution of property, values, and practices.

In the spirit of friendly parting, we will arrange for a community picnic in about 10 years to compare notes and see how each other are doing.

Sincerely,

Your Conservative Friends


P.S.: Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, and Jane Fonda with you.

P.S.S..: And you won't have to "Press 1 for English" when you call our country.

That's so fucking corny and stupid, thanks for the insight into the so-called "conservative dullard mindset"! What a joke!

 

[occupied]

Dear conservatives, we will see your lying, unfaithful, non-supportive, abusive asses in court.

 

[Borillar]

To Lone Laugher: I wrote the intro to the divorce agreement and did some heavy editing on several of the points listed. The concept did not originate with me, and I did use some of the phrases as was from another e-mail because I couldn't improve on them, but quite a bit is my own work and definitely is not a cut and paste.

To Borrillar, good try, but you're going to have to do better than that. We cannot negotiate until you are able to make a good argument for why the liberals should have something that the Conservatives are asking for. For instance, I posted the data on how many liberals and conservatives there are. Dividing via red state and blue state won't cut it by the numbers. So you'll have to refine your argument to really make a case assuming that we will have an impartial judge who will make his/her decision based on the quality of the aguments.

Another for instance, I have made our case for why we should get the hiistory, Constitution, flag, Pledge of Allegiance, and National Anthem.

You can make your case by showing how much modern day liberals articulate and defend American Exceptionalism upon which all of those are based.

Hello. Hope you and Mr Foxfyre are having a good time in your foray into the wilderness. Mrs Borillar (she would hit me if she knew I referred to her that way) and I are waiting for our pool chemicals to stabilize so we can go swimming. Anyway, back to your post...

You showed a poll where there are more people that identify as conservative than liberal. Well, there are probably other polls that show otherwise. The fact that the presidency and senate are in Dem control shows that there are a large percentage of people who disagree with conservative notions. I would say that non-conservatives outnumber conservatives around 60/40. If Conservastan is limited to only conservatives - that should net you around 20 states, leaving the rest of us non-conservatives the other 30.

History is just a chronological record of events. I don't see how that can belong to any one group any more than the sun or the air we breathe.

The Constitution provides a framework for our government to work. Liberals want an effective government that can provide for a common defense and promote the general welfare. Let's take a closer look at the constitution. I think we'll see that it closer resembles liberal ideals than conservative ones.

1st Protects the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press, as well as the right to assemble and petition the government. Let's see... freedom of speech is a very liberal concept. Conservatives are for conservative speech only. Non conservatives are put into "free speech" zones. Conservatives believe that money is speech. Liberals believe that money is property. Freedom of religion is also a very liberal concept. Liberals believe that you can hold to any faith or no faith at all. Conservatives seem to think that freedom of religion means you can belong to an approved of Christian denomination. Right to assemble - Conservatives are OK with conservative groups assembling like Tea party, KKK, etc. But not so much for employee unions, civil rights demonstrations, etc. Liberals actually supported the right for ultra right wing neo nazis to march in Skokie, Ill, because they support the first amendment even for extremists. You won't hear that kind of support from the right. They oppose the ACLU. So, the first amendment is clearly Liberal.

2nd Protects an individual's right to bear arms. The founders were opposed to standing armies and relied upon state and local militias. Able bodied men were expected to serve in these militias and so the necessity to keep and bear arms. Nowadays, we have a very large standing Military in addition to National Guard and Reserve forces. I doubt the framers would have wanted ordinary citizens to have nukes and cruise missiles, but you can try and make that case. In any case, self defense is not for conservatives only. Everyone is entitled to that. I'll keep my guns, thank you very much.

3rd Prohibits the forced quartering of soldiers out of war time. Has this been a problem since colonial times? I don't think so.

4th Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause. Do you really want to go there? Conservatives love warrantless wiretaps and searches. Clearly a liberal amendment.

5th Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy. Repubs don't give a damn about "due process". Think Guantanamo, Abu Graib, and extraordinary rendition. I'm surprised that conservatives haven't started a movement to repeal the 4th and 5th amendments. 5th amendment - clearly liberal.

6th Protects the right to a fair and speedy public trial by jury, including the rights to be notified of the accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel. Again clearly liberal.

7th Provides for the right to trial by jury in certain civil cases, according to common law. Believe this to be right to jury trial in civil case over $20. Conservatives are against civil trials and are always pushing for tort reform. 7th - liberal.

8th Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment. This one is kind of a mixed bag. Conservatives like cruel and unusual punishment, but are opposed to excessive fines at least when corporations are forced to pay them. I suppose that would depend on what you consider excessive. Liberals are generally opposed to cruel and unusual punishment, the death penalty and torture. Another amendment for the good guys (liberals).

9th Protects rights not enumerated in the constitution. Conservatives always say where is this or that right listed in the constitution? Right here, buddy. Right to privacy, right to self defense, etc. Very liberal.

10th Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution. Conservatives like this amendment because they think it gives States the right to do practically anything they want - like Slavery. Guess the conservatives have this one.

Well, that's the bill of rights as laid out by the founders and enacted in 1791. The numerous amendments since then have been mostly liberal, except for alchohol prohibition, which was repealed. The vast majority of the constitution is very liberal and therefore should be kept by the non-conservative side.

The flag represents 50 United States. I guess you can go back to a point in time when there was only 20 stars and adopt that. Or maybe that snake flag the teabaggers like. I've already pointed out that the pledge would have to be modified with words "united", "one nation", and "indivisible" removed. The national anthem would likewise be meaningless, since the country it represents no longer would be in existence. I suppose you could adopt "dixieland" or change the words of some patriotic song to more accurately reflect your values - like "My country tis of thee, sweet land of slavery. Of thee I sing..."

"American exceptionalism"... I've heard that in a few different contexts. The goal of creating America as an example for the world to follow - the "Shining City upon a hill". I think most liberals would support that vision. Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Sadly, today most of the world reviles the USA. We meddle in places we should not. We support oppressive dictatorships and regimes where it may benefit corporations. We start wars of choice against countries that pose no threat to us. I don't see how conservatives have contributed much to setting an example for others to follow. More the opposite.

Another context I've heard American exceptionalism in is the notion that because we are born here in the USA, we are somehow superior to other peoples and should not be held accountable for our actions. I suspect this is what conservatives are talking about, and I disagree. I don't think we are any better than anyone else by virtue of being American. Just more fortunate...

 

[Pheonixops]

(Disclaimer: This is an adaptation of a divorce agreement that has been circulating around the internet for awhile.)

To All My Dearest Beloved Liberal, Leftist, Social Progressive, Regressive, Marxist, and Liberation Theologist Friends:

Since we are not going to get gasoline back to $1.50 per gallon and coffee to $2.00 per pound, it is time to divide up our common property and split the sheets so to speak. To wit I propose the following:

DIVORCE AGREEMENT​

WHEREAS, we have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids and for sake of future generations, but the whole of this latest election process has revealed that our relationship has clearly run its course, and

WHEREAS, our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all,

THEREFORE let's end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.

Here is the suggested model separation agreement:

1. Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass apportioned according to numerical representation. You can have California, Oregon, and Washington State. We'll take all the rest.

2. We don't like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them.

3. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

4. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military.

5. We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with all the wind, solar, and bio-diesel.

6. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.

7. We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street.

8. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless homeboys, hippies, druggies, illegal aliens, unions, peaceniks, war protesters, and the OSW groups.

9. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.

10. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood

11. You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us or hit back when we are threatened or attacked.

14. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness, and Shirley McLain. You can also have the U.N., but we will no longer be paying the bill.

13. We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.

14. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Chevy Volt you can find.

15. You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any doctors to deliver it. We'll continue to believe that healthcare is more affordable and more excellent in a free market system.

16. We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", "God Bless America", and "The National Anthem."

17. You get "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya," or "We Are the World".

18. We'll practice trickledown economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.

19. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our constitution and our flag.

Please sign and pass it on if you will agree to this equitable distribution of property, values, and practices.

In the spirit of friendly parting, we will arrange for a community picnic in about 10 years to compare notes and see how each other are doing.

Sincerely,

Your Conservative Friends


P.S.: Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, Alec Baldwin, and Jane Fonda with you.

P.S.S..: And you won't have to "Press 1 for English" when you call our country.

I voted for no divorce a few days ago. I still feel that way. You claim over and over that nobody has answered your points, so I thought I'd revisit your first post and respond to them.

#1. By numerical distribution, we would get a lot more than just the West coastal states. Even in so called "red" states there are sizable liberal populations. Really, there are no red and blue states - just shades of purple. But since this is just a "friendly" thought exercize, Conservastan can have the Red states and the liberals, moderates and independents will take the Blue states.

#2. Just about all taxes redistribute money. Got to pay for the infrastructure, Military, and social programs somehow. How are things going to be paid for in Conservastan? Bake sales? Donations?

#3. I'll gladly take the liberal judges and ACLU. Got to have someone advocating for our civil liberties. You can take Roberts, Alito, and the other conservative activist rubber stamps.

#4. Don't know where you get the idea that all liberals hate guns. I own quite a few myself. Enjoy shooting sports and hunting. I'll keep my guns, thank you very much. War is something nobody loves or wants, except maybe for conservative or neocon chickenhawks who are always advocating invading countries. "Bomb bomb bomb Iran". However, liberals love their country and will defend it, so we'll keep the military as well. Liberals don't advocate lawlessness, so we'll keep our police too.

#5. Hard to believe that after the recent unpleasantness in the gulf that you are still pushing to drill, drill, drill without any safeguards. Guess you can have the oil slicks and contaminated fisheries. Not all liberals fall into the environmentalist camp either. I would say that most of us would accept more drilling with proper safeguards and good stewardship rather than just letting the oil companies do whatever they please. I would like to make much greater use of natural gas too.

#6. Sure. You can have all the conservative blowhards like Rush, Hannity, Savage, Beck, etc. Bet you'll need a pretty damn big bus to move them too.

#7. You can have the laissez-faire capitalism you dream of, free of any regulation or safeguard. We will keep our mixed, regulated economy that has been the economic powerhouse of the world for decades. You can have Walmart, we'll keep the local small businesses. You can keep the vulture capitalists, we'll keep the venture capitalists. As far as corporations go, I think they will probably want to stay where patent laws will be enforced. I suppose that there will be a lot of quick buck hucksters and schemers that will want the no regulation paradise of Conservastan though.

#8. OK, I get it. You love America. You just hate Americans. You don't want to give anyone a hand up. You would tell a person without legs to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Anyone down on their luck must be a liberal. Anyone who is unemployed, put down, picked on, or disadvantaged must be a liberal and therefore outcast.

#9. If you are referring to Sarah Palin, you can have her. Please! And the greedy CEO's who can run their companies into the ground and get away with their golden parachutes... Yeah, you can have those too. Not all rednecks are conservative, but you can have the conservative ones.

#10. As a Christian, I find it very offensive that you think Conservatives somehow "own" God. I'll keep my savior and my Bible. You can have your "Supply-side Jesus". I suppose that the conservative actors will be upset that they will have to live in Liberal USA in order to work. I guess you can have the corpses of Reagan and Heston. You can also have Fox news.

#11. We'll maintain good relations with the rest of the world whenever possible. We reserve the right to defend our territories and interests. We'll keep the Nukes. Sounds like you guys can't be trusted with them. Bunch of trigger happy cowboys shooting first and asking questions later.

#12. Liberals believe in the 1st amendment right to freedom of religion. We can believe in whatever we want, whatever the concept of God is - from hairy thunderer to cosmic muffin, or no God at all. I suppose the Conservastan concept of freedom of religion is that you have the freedom to belong to an approved Christian denomination. Oh, do you guys get the Mormons? The Jehovah's witnesses? I imagine a lot of them are conservative, but their religions are not very orthodox.

#13. You get the Judeo-Christian values? Which ones are those? A lot of them seem counter to the things you espouse. Capitalism seems to be based a great deal upon coveting. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but you espouse attacking other countries. The Bible says to pray in private, but you want public prayer in schools. The Bible says not to put any other gods before God. Your god is money.

#14. Conservatives are all about conspicuous consumption, aren't they? Liberals will drive whatever makes sense for themselves and their families. Odd that conservatives don't want to conserve gas (or any other natural resource).

#15. What you think doesn't seem to be very factual. Our so called free market system of healthcare leaves millions without healthcare. Well, I suppose that without all the repub obstruction, we can finally pass single payer healthcare and join the rest of the industrial world. I suppose there will be some opportunistic doctors that will want to cater to the rich in Conservastan. The rich will need their facelifts, boob enhancements, liposuctions, and prescriptions for viagra.

#16. We'll keep "This Land is Your Land", "America the Beautiful", and the National anthem.

#17. I imagine we'll get the bulk of music. You can keep Ted Nugent and Lynyrd Skynyrd ( although I really like Skynyrd) and some of the redneck country stuff. We'll keep the rest.

#18. You can get rich people to piss down your backs and then tell you it's raining. You'll believe it and like it.

#19. Seems you're the ones all offended and wanting to leave. We'll keep our history, warts and all. You can have the whitewashed version. You can't break up the UNITED STATES and then call the fractured remains by that name. You can call yours Conservastan or Teabaggertopia or Jeezusland or some such. Same with the flag. Once the country is split up, the flag becomes meaningless. If you want a pledge of alliegence to Teabaggerstan, you'll have to redact the words "United", "One Nation", and "indivisible" since you want to throw that all away. And the Constitution? Why do you want that? To conservatives like George Bush, the Constitution is "just a fucking piece of paper".

Conservatives are all about the founders and their "original intent". The constitution was arrived at by debate and lots of compromise. Well, if conservatives want to take the country back to the way it was at its founding, I think we are going to gain a great deal of people coming to the liberal states. After all, the founder's version of America included slavery, women as little more than chattel, and only wealthy, white landowners with the right to vote. Conservastan can have that. We on the liberal side will take the Constitution as it exists now, with all the liberal amendments. We might even make a couple more amendments - Pass the ERA, and define money as property - not speech, and define corporations as property - not people. Now that I think about it, about the only parts of the constitution that conservatives like are the second half of the 2nd amendment (always ignore the well regulated militia part), and the 10th amendment reserving State's rights or to the individual (except they don't want women to have privacy rights).

So, if you want to pack up your bags and leave, fine. Go in peace and God bless. Don't expect much agreement in what you proposed though.

Excellent points, very well said!!!!

 

[ConservaDerrps]

They tried splitting the states in half. It didn't work too well. But then, I'm not surprised a Republican would float this idea again.

And as for Liberal Comedians vs. Conservative Comedians...One George Carlin would destroy a million Dennis "9/11 Turned Me From Flaming Liberal to Tea-Bagger" Miller.

And besides that, who exactly IS a Conservative Comedian? I thought you had to be fucking funny to be a comedian?

 

[occupied]

They tried splitting the states in half. It didn't work too well. But then, I'm not surprised a Republican would float this idea again.

And as for Liberal Comedians vs. Conservative Comedians...One George Carlin would destroy a million Dennis "9/11 Turned Me From Flaming Liberal to Tea-Bagger" Miller.

And besides that, who exactly IS a Conservative Comedian? I thought you had to be fucking funny to be a comedian?

They love Jeff Dunham, nuff said.

 

[Borillar]

They tried splitting the states in half. It didn't work too well. But then, I'm not surprised a Republican would float this idea again.

And as for Liberal Comedians vs. Conservative Comedians...One George Carlin would destroy a million Dennis "9/11 Turned Me From Flaming Liberal to Tea-Bagger" Miller.

And besides that, who exactly IS a Conservative Comedian? I thought you had to be fucking funny to be a comedian?

They love Jeff Dunham, nuff said.

Hey, I like Jeff-fa-fa too! Not sure if he is conservative like his alter ego Walter. But he has some funny shit no matter what your political stripes are.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

They tried splitting the states in half. It didn't work too well. But then, I'm not surprised a Republican would float this idea again.

And as for Liberal Comedians vs. Conservative Comedians...One George Carlin would destroy a million Dennis "9/11 Turned Me From Flaming Liberal to Tea-Bagger" Miller.

And besides that, who exactly IS a Conservative Comedian? I thought you had to be fucking funny to be a comedian?

They love Jeff Dunham, nuff said.

Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. Ventriloquists.