Soggy in NOLA
Diamond Member
- Jul 31, 2009
- 40,565
- 5,359
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EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all
So, you're now willing to pay like, $1 in taxes and leave the ranks of the 50 per-centers?
I doubt it.
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Like it
EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all
I don't agree. If the money is loaned out of SS to the general fund, then SS has bought treasuries,
they loan the money, they collect interest, the full faith and credit of the US is behind paying the money back.
Whatever the differences between that and, say, you or me buying a treasury bond are, are not differences that make a difference,
and if a difference doesn't make any difference, it's not a difference. I think I heard that last night![]()
I could be completely wrong, but that's not my understanding of how the trusts work. I thought that all assets in the trusts were nonmarketable liabilities, i.e. no Treasury bonds.
The reason why people say that the trust fund doesn't really exist, or that it is all IOUs, or an accounting gimmick, is because, in the true tangible sense, that is correct. The trusts don't buy and sell US Treasury bonds. Instead, the government debits and credits the accounts within the trusts as if they really were buying and selling bonds, with the cash flowing through the government in the same manner as it would have had the bonds really existed. If there is a surge in SS receipts, the government debits the SS trust accounts and credits the Treasury, which has the exact same affect as the Treasury issuing a bond to the trusts for that amount of funds. The economics are exactly the same as issuing a bond to the trust, but they don't and instead just skip the middleman and issue nonmarketable government bonds to the trust, which don't "really" exist in the tangible sense.
Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds
Well, if you had 100,000 in your IRA and it was all in US treasuries, it would essentially all be in IOU's, i.e., the government would have your money but they would owe you interest over time as well as your principal.
I'm not sure what the meaningful difference between that SS is.
The relevant point is that the payroll tax is real money and it belongs to Social Security. The surplus is invested in US govt. obligations by mandate. If the US government NOW wants to make drastic cuts in Social Security, whose fault is that?
Wrong... taxes are high enough already, and have been for years. More taxes will only crush the delicate state of the economy further into the toilet.
What part about that are you liberals incapable of understanding?
Okay we preserved the Bush tax cuts for the foreseeable future...shouldn't the economy be booming about right now then?
This is where the Conservative argument falls flat. The tax cuts that happened while we're fighting 2 wars (unprecedented in history worldwide) should have, according to the Conservatives, set off runaway growth prosperity and cute puppies for all citizens.
Obama preserved them...don't lie and say he didn't.
What happened?
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
Like it
EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all
So, you're now willing to pay like, $1 in taxes and leave the ranks of the 50 per-centers?
I doubt it.
SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.[/B]
Like it
EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all
So, you're now willing to pay like, $1 in taxes and leave the ranks of the 50 per-centers?
I doubt it.
Count me in
I currently pay more in taxes than you make
Like it
EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all
So, you're now willing to pay like, $1 in taxes and leave the ranks of the 50 per-centers?
I doubt it.
Count me in
I currently pay more in taxes than you make
Okay we preserved the Bush tax cuts for the foreseeable future...shouldn't the economy be booming about right now then?
This is where the Conservative argument falls flat. The tax cuts that happened while we're fighting 2 wars (unprecedented in history worldwide) should have, according to the Conservatives, set off runaway growth prosperity and cute puppies for all citizens.
Obama preserved them...don't lie and say he didn't.
What happened?
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA&feature=fvwrel]YouTube - ‪President Bush Addresses Nation on Economic Crisis‬‏[/ame]
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
Okay we preserved the Bush tax cuts for the foreseeable future...shouldn't the economy be booming about right now then?
This is where the Conservative argument falls flat. The tax cuts that happened while we're fighting 2 wars (unprecedented in history worldwide) should have, according to the Conservatives, set off runaway growth prosperity and cute puppies for all citizens.
Obama preserved them...don't lie and say he didn't.
What happened?
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA&feature=fvwrel]YouTube - ‪President Bush Addresses Nation on Economic Crisis‬‏[/ame]
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA&feature=fvwrel]YouTube - ‪President Bush Addresses Nation on Economic Crisis‬‏[/ame]
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
I assume You are talking about TARP. Which of course was not a Stimulus Bill. It was a Bail out LOAN. And is being paid back.
And Bush Hardly Rammed it through. Unlike the Obama Stimulus which was passed on Nearly all Democrat Votes. Tarp Enjoyed Bi-Partisan Support. Rammed through? Really.
Do you ever get any facts right?
Is the nearly 1 Trillion dollar Obama Stimulus, or the .5 Trillion Omnibus bill going to be Paid back?
Fucking idiots.
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
I assume You are talking about TARP. Which of course was not a Stimulus Bill. It was a Bail out LOAN. And is being paid back.
And Bush Hardly Rammed it through. Unlike the Obama Stimulus which was passed on Nearly all Democrat Votes. Tarp Enjoyed Bi-Partisan Support. Rammed through? Really.
Do you ever get any facts right?
Is the nearly 1 Trillion dollar Obama Stimulus, or the .5 Trillion Omnibus bill going to be Paid back?
Fucking idiots.
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
I assume You are talking about TARP. Which of course was not a Stimulus Bill. It was a Bail out LOAN. And is being paid back.
And Bush Hardly Rammed it through. Unlike the Obama Stimulus which was passed on Nearly all Democrat Votes. Tarp Enjoyed Bi-Partisan Support. Rammed through? Really.
Do you ever get any facts right?
Is the nearly 1 Trillion dollar Obama Stimulus, or the .5 Trillion Omnibus bill going to be Paid back?
Fucking idiots.
Papa Obama voted for the !st TARP so it must have been good and he agreed with Bush
If fact Papa Obama liked it so much, his administration extended it to keep the Bush policy going
Obama Administration Extending TARP Until 2010
Come to think of it
Papa Obama has kept a lot of Bush polices going
Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
![]()
hmm, what could it be now,,,,
Papa Obama and the Left overspent
They wasted money on a Pork Bill that did no good
(why were they kicked out of office?)
When Bush tax cuts were first passed they worked pretty good for Bush
Actually, they worked faster. cost less and brought employment down
quicker. It is not the Bush tax cuts fault that they could not keep up
with the Lefts spending and bad economic decision making
Remember the "bad Bush days" of 5.3 percent unemployment?
I bet Papa Obama wishes he had those numbers
What if something does not work forever, it does not work?
If they worked, why did Bush ram through a $700B stimulus package in the waning days of his administration....are you going to blame that on Obama too?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA&feature=fvwrel]YouTube - ‪President Bush Addresses Nation on Economic Crisis‬‏[/ame]
Well?
I know, when the liberal spends billions, it's pork.
When the allegedly conservative spends billions, it's a wise investment.
I assume You are talking about TARP. Which of course was not a Stimulus Bill. It was a Bail out LOAN. And is being paid back.
And Bush Hardly Rammed it through. Unlike the Obama Stimulus which was passed on Nearly all Democrat Votes. Tarp Enjoyed Bi-Partisan Support. Rammed through? Really.
Do you ever get any facts right?
Is the nearly 1 Trillion dollar Obama Stimulus, or the .5 Trillion Omnibus bill going to be Paid back?
Fucking idiots.
I assume You are talking about TARP. Which of course was not a Stimulus Bill. It was a Bail out LOAN. And is being paid back.
And Bush Hardly Rammed it through. Unlike the Obama Stimulus which was passed on Nearly all Democrat Votes. Tarp Enjoyed Bi-Partisan Support. Rammed through? Really.
Do you ever get any facts right?
Is the nearly 1 Trillion dollar Obama Stimulus, or the .5 Trillion Omnibus bill going to be Paid back?
Fucking idiots.
Papa Obama voted for the !st TARP so it must have been good and he agreed with Bush
If fact Papa Obama liked it so much, his administration extended it to keep the Bush policy going
Obama Administration Extending TARP Until 2010
Come to think of it
Papa Obama has kept a lot of Bush polices going
Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
![]()
Way to run and hide.
Now you're changing your argument....earlier you said it was because Obama overspent that we are NOW having problems; you fail to respond to WHY Bush had to take $700B of our money if his tax cuts were working and it was so efficient.
C'mon, explain why Bush's spending was so good and Obama's was so bad. I'm guessing for someone with your level of intelligence is as simple as black and white.
Wow...way to confess the obvious.Papa Obama voted for the !st TARP so it must have been good and he agreed with Bush
If fact Papa Obama liked it so much, his administration extended it to keep the Bush policy going
Obama Administration Extending TARP Until 2010
Come to think of it
Papa Obama has kept a lot of Bush polices going
Well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
![]()
Way to run and hide.
Now you're changing your argument....earlier you said it was because Obama overspent that we are NOW having problems; you fail to respond to WHY Bush had to take $700B of our money if his tax cuts were working and it was so efficient.
C'mon, explain why Bush's spending was so good and Obama's was so bad. I'm guessing for someone with your level of intelligence is as simple as black and white.
I am not changing anything, you brought up Bush
But, if it makes you happy, Bush overspent-sure
But, Papa Obama has way out spent him and all other Presidents.
In fact
Barack Obama increased the national debt by over $3 trillion in just over 2 years.
Obama tripled the deficit in one year with his Pork stimulus plan.
Whatever Bush spent was "chump change" compared to Papa Obama.
In fact, Papa Obama Obama Will Spend More on Welfare Than Bush Spent on Entire Iraq War
Wow...way to confess the obvious.Way to run and hide.
Now you're changing your argument....earlier you said it was because Obama overspent that we are NOW having problems; you fail to respond to WHY Bush had to take $700B of our money if his tax cuts were working and it was so efficient.
C'mon, explain why Bush's spending was so good and Obama's was so bad. I'm guessing for someone with your level of intelligence is as simple as black and white.
I am not changing anything, you brought up Bush
But, if it makes you happy, Bush overspent-sure
But, Papa Obama has way out spent him and all other Presidents.
In fact
Barack Obama increased the national debt by over $3 trillion in just over 2 years.
Obama tripled the deficit in one year with his Pork stimulus plan.
Whatever Bush spent was "chump change" compared to Papa Obama.
In fact, Papa Obama Obama Will Spend More on Welfare Than Bush Spent on Entire Iraq War
Wow...way to go to an impartial source for the "real" story. LOL...
So why did Bush have to go to the $700B well if his tax cuts were working so wonderfully--to get back to the original question you're trying to tap dance around.
Tell us why. Will you please?
Wow...way to confess the obvious.I am not changing anything, you brought up Bush
But, if it makes you happy, Bush overspent-sure
But, Papa Obama has way out spent him and all other Presidents.
In fact
Barack Obama increased the national debt by over $3 trillion in just over 2 years.
Obama tripled the deficit in one year with his Pork stimulus plan.
Whatever Bush spent was "chump change" compared to Papa Obama.
In fact, Papa Obama Obama Will Spend More on Welfare Than Bush Spent on Entire Iraq War
Wow...way to go to an impartial source for the "real" story. LOL...
So why did Bush have to go to the $700B well if his tax cuts were working so wonderfully--to get back to the original question you're trying to tap dance around.
Tell us why. Will you please?
I hope you know that an Ad hominem argument does NOT prove one's point.
Facts are facts
Truth is hard for the Left, in fact, it is their worst enemy
The TARP money that was paid back?
Sure, Bush had to go to it because of the failed liberal policies of Freddie mac and Fannie mae that created a housing bubble
Gee, everybody knows that.....
I thought they proposed $4T in spending cuts.Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama
Wow...way to confess the obvious.
Wow...way to go to an impartial source for the "real" story. LOL...
So why did Bush have to go to the $700B well if his tax cuts were working so wonderfully--to get back to the original question you're trying to tap dance around.
Tell us why. Will you please?
I hope you know that an Ad hominem argument does NOT prove one's point.
Facts are facts
Truth is hard for the Left, in fact, it is their worst enemy
The TARP money that was paid back?
Sure, Bush had to go to it because of the failed liberal policies of Freddie mac and Fannie mae that created a housing bubble
Gee, everybody knows that.....
Liberal policies. Duck-dodge-dive--and dodge again...right Patches?
He had 8 years to fix the "liberal policies". He did nothing. I know...he was busy fighting Osama bin Hussein or right?
So here are the facts:
Bush passes Tax cuts. Spends $700B. And you're okay with that.
Obama preserves the Tax Cuts. Spends $1000B. And you're not okay with that.
Too fucking funny.