Dems still own Obamacare. Good for midterms

[Rustic]

See that's the problem, people should not be forced to pay for other peoples shit...

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats what government is, thats what taxation is... It's fine if you want to live in Anarchy, but its not realistic in this country.

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

Um, the government is the last thing you want involved to help you achieve riches

-Geaux

Is that right? We only use the currency that is created and managed by our government. We are only protected from being robbed blind by our laws and police. We are only protected against dozens of vulnerabilities that our competitors could exploit to destroy our businesses... Yeah, you go to some Anarchic third world country and start a business and see how well you do. Man, you are not having a good day.

The federal government is the enemy of the country… Fact

 

[Slade3200]

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats what government is, thats what taxation is... It's fine if you want to live in Anarchy, but its not realistic in this country.

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

This is supposed to be a capitalist Republic, not a shit eating democracy.
Having the federal government in charge is like putting a fox in the hen house… Fact

So what, that has nothing to do with what I just said. Stop with the word games. Here i'll restate the last line for your dumb ass.

"You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic REPUBLIC. FACT"

We are not all in this together, it does not take a village. People need to pay for their own shit… LOL

Wonderful, thanks for sharing.

 

[Rustic]

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

This is supposed to be a capitalist Republic, not a shit eating democracy.
Having the federal government in charge is like putting a fox in the hen house… Fact

So what, that has nothing to do with what I just said. Stop with the word games. Here i'll restate the last line for your dumb ass.

"You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic REPUBLIC. FACT"

We are not all in this together, it does not take a village. People need to pay for their own shit… LOL

Wonderful, thanks for sharing.

The collective never works for the good of the individual... fact

 

[Slade3200]

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats what government is, thats what taxation is... It's fine if you want to live in Anarchy, but its not realistic in this country.

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

Um, the government is the last thing you want involved to help you achieve riches

-Geaux

Is that right? We only use the currency that is created and managed by our government. We are only protected from being robbed blind by our laws and police. We are only protected against dozens of vulnerabilities that our competitors could exploit to destroy our businesses... Yeah, you go to some Anarchic third world country and start a business and see how well you do. Man, you are not having a good day.

The federal government is the enemy of the country… Fact

the country exists because of the order, civility and protections created by our government. It like everything else in power has many areas of corruption that needs to be fix but your generalizations are laughable. Are you a child?

 

[sealybobo]

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

Make obamacare an "opt in"... because it only works for progressives it is not in the best interest of the rest of the country. fact

You don't like pre existing conditions? You are never going to get sick or old?

I want nothing to do with any insurance of any sort, I never have used it, I have never purchased it, I never plan on purchasing it. I don't live life that way… Scared of what might happen.

Ridiculous. When you die you'll be laid up in the hospital and it'll cost taxpayers a million. You need to pull your own weight. Every asshole says that then inevidably you get cancer or alzhimers and Medicaid has to take care of your sorry ass.

We're not worried about you we're covering our asses by making you buy your own healthcare.

You may not want to go to the Alzheimer's home but it won't be your choice by then.

Just shoot me in the head, before I depend on the fucking federal government. It does not suit me...

Unfortunately the religious nuts won't allow us to euthenize you. Would love for that to be an option for the people who opt out.

 

[Geaux4it]

See that's the problem, people should not be forced to pay for other peoples shit...

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats what government is, thats what taxation is... It's fine if you want to live in Anarchy, but its not realistic in this country.

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

Um, the government is the last thing you want involved to help you achieve riches

-Geaux

Is that right? We only use the currency that is created and managed by our government. We are only protected from being robbed blind by our laws and police. We are only protected against dozens of vulnerabilities that our competitors could exploit to destroy our businesses... Yeah, you go to some Anarchic third world country and start a business and see how well you do. Man, you are not having a good day.

Perhaps in your little dream world complete with unicorns

-Geaux

 

[Flopper]

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

/----- Pre existing could always get coverage but at a higher rate because they were more prone to illness. Your once size fits all is an epic failure.

Sure you get coverage. In my state, advanced cancers got coverage through a high risk pool. After the application process which took about 4 weeks, you got coverage with a 90 day waiting period, a $30K a year premium, a $25,000 deductible, a 20% copay, and both yearly and lifetime maximums. I doubt there were many customers.

 

[Slade3200]

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

This is supposed to be a capitalist Republic, not a shit eating democracy.
Having the federal government in charge is like putting a fox in the hen house… Fact

So what, that has nothing to do with what I just said. Stop with the word games. Here i'll restate the last line for your dumb ass.

"You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic REPUBLIC. FACT"

We are not all in this together, it does not take a village. People need to pay for their own shit… LOL

Wonderful, thanks for sharing.

The collective never works for the good of the individual... fact

Sure it does. For example, the fact that my neighborhood has an HOA that works as a collective effort to keep certain standards and fund amenities and events in our housing community has raised the property value of my house by a good 15% over the neighborhood next door that does not operate with an HOA. The same principles apply to governments that use the voice of the collective to benefit each individual. Of course there can be over reach and there will always be selfish people like yourself that think they are getting screwed... but for good hearted community minded individuals that value providing service for others, I'd say the function of the "collective" provides plenty of benefits.

 

[Slade3200]

Sorry to burst your bubble but thats what government is, thats what taxation is... It's fine if you want to live in Anarchy, but its not realistic in this country.

That's why socialism can never work, it feeds off of the prosperous and successful…
Fraud is encouraged in the collective.

Without any kind of wealth distribution the rich simply swallow everything up and grow too powerful to compete with. This is the flaw of a completely capitalistic society. We need a check and balance, something in place to look out for the "little guy" something that allows our citizens the opportunity to go from rags to riches if they work hard enough. You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic democracy. FACT

Um, the government is the last thing you want involved to help you achieve riches

-Geaux

Is that right? We only use the currency that is created and managed by our government. We are only protected from being robbed blind by our laws and police. We are only protected against dozens of vulnerabilities that our competitors could exploit to destroy our businesses... Yeah, you go to some Anarchic third world country and start a business and see how well you do. Man, you are not having a good day.

Perhaps in your little dream world complete with unicorns

-Geaux

You think using the US dollar, being protected by the police, and business regulations are a fantasy land? Are you just out of rational responses?

 

[sealybobo]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

/----- Pre existing could always get coverage but at a higher rate because they were more prone to illness. Your once size fits all is an epic failure.

Sure you get coverage. In my state, advanced cancers got coverage through a high risk pool. After the application process which took about 4 weeks, you got coverage with a 90 day waiting period, a $30K a year premium, a $25,000 deductible, a 20% copay, and both yearly and lifetime maximums. I doubt there were many customers.

Reminds me of cobra. What a joke. Who's going to pay $1500 a month when they are unemployed.

We all know healthcare is a joke. The insurance Giants and the big pharma needs to be more heavily regulated not less. CEO pay reigned in. The profit motive should be cut in half. Give bonus's for lowering the costs.

They say throw away medication that's so old but they test it ten years later and the stuff is still good. Enough

 

[WillowTree]

You did not answer mine either! What compromise do you wish to make with democrats? Remember them? They fucked up the entire medical care in this country!

I wasn't talking about compromise with the Democrats.

I was talking about compromise with OTHER REPUBLICANS.

They couldn't even do THAT.

If you don't have an answer, that's okay.
.

So I misunderstood your question. So what compromise would you make with the dissenting Republicans? Like Collins who wants to fund PP? Or the ones who wanted to keep the mandates and taxes? Which of those are acceptable to you? Funding murder? Mandates? Or taxing the shit out of the middle class?

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

 

[sealybobo]

I wasn't talking about compromise with the Democrats.

I was talking about compromise with OTHER REPUBLICANS.

They couldn't even do THAT.

If you don't have an answer, that's okay.
.

So I misunderstood your question. So what compromise would you make with the dissenting Republicans? Like Collins who wants to fund PP? Or the ones who wanted to keep the mandates and taxes? Which of those are acceptable to you? Funding murder? Mandates? Or taxing the shit out of the middle class?

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

Because Republicans are signaling to insurance companies.

And is it? Or is that just a right wing talking point? I know that's what you say but you guys like a lot

 

[WillowTree]

So I misunderstood your question. So what compromise would you make with the dissenting Republicans? Like Collins who wants to fund PP? Or the ones who wanted to keep the mandates and taxes? Which of those are acceptable to you? Funding murder? Mandates? Or taxing the shit out of the middle class?

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

Because Republicans are signaling to insurance companies.

And is it? Or is that just a right wing talking point? I know that's what you say but you guys like a lot

Smoke signals?

 

[peach174]

So I misunderstood your question. So what compromise would you make with the dissenting Republicans? Like Collins who wants to fund PP? Or the ones who wanted to keep the mandates and taxes? Which of those are acceptable to you? Funding murder? Mandates? Or taxing the shit out of the middle class?

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

Because Republicans are signaling to insurance companies.

And is it? Or is that just a right wing talking point? I know that's what you say but you guys like a lot

Where were you when we all told everyone before Obama care passed that it would not work and can't work.
We said it wasn't fiscally sustainable and that it would implode on it's self.
Quit the blame game.

 

[Toro]

Orange Jesus's worshipers will never cast blame on the incompetence of their messiah.

With the latest collapse of the Obamacare repeal, the president has wasted political capital, squandered a reputation for dealmaking, and shown himself to be a poor strategist and tactician.​

It's (Still) Never Trump's Fault

 

[Slade3200]

I wasn't talking about compromise with the Democrats.

I was talking about compromise with OTHER REPUBLICANS.

They couldn't even do THAT.

If you don't have an answer, that's okay.
.

So I misunderstood your question. So what compromise would you make with the dissenting Republicans? Like Collins who wants to fund PP? Or the ones who wanted to keep the mandates and taxes? Which of those are acceptable to you? Funding murder? Mandates? Or taxing the shit out of the middle class?

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

Because we have a GOP congress that spent the past few years trying to repeal the law and now a new president that spent the past year talking about how bad it is and how he is going to repeal it. That creates instability in the market when it should have been supported for growth.

 

[sealybobo]

Collins was the one who could read that taking 22 million people off Health Insurance so that Billionaires could get a tax break doesn't make sense...

You are not here to discuss.. You are already indoctrinated into the group think... Well done to those Republicans who got past the cloud and put Americans ahead of Team Red. That new health bill would have sent US well down the international health rankings...

You are an idiot! No one is taking 22 million off of Health Insurance. Damn how did you get so stupid? What the bill does is slow the expansion of Medicaid. It also does away with the fucking mandate. People have a CHOICE to stay or go!

It won't work or fix what's wrong. Why can't you guys ever solve a problem?

What is the last problem a Republican solved?

Obama got us out of Bush's recession and got rid of pre existing conditions.

What's the last problem Republicans fixed?

Then why is obamacare imploding?

Because Republicans are signaling to insurance companies.

And is it? Or is that just a right wing talking point? I know that's what you say but you guys like a lot

Where were you when we all told everyone before Obama care passed that it would not work and can't work.
We said it wasn't fiscally sustainable and that it would implode on it's self.
Quit the blame game.

So single payer?

How does every other country do it?

 

[sartre play]

This is not a game, the worst thing that happened to the affordable care act was calling it Obama care, it should have been judged on its own merits then worked on by all congress people not just liked because you are from the party that put it forward, or hated because it's not from your party. thats school yard stuff.

 

[Rustic]

This is supposed to be a capitalist Republic, not a shit eating democracy.
Having the federal government in charge is like putting a fox in the hen house… Fact

So what, that has nothing to do with what I just said. Stop with the word games. Here i'll restate the last line for your dumb ass.

"You distort the role our government plays by calling it socialism. It is dishonest and a cheap way to critique social programs that exists in our capitalistic REPUBLIC. FACT"

We are not all in this together, it does not take a village. People need to pay for their own shit… LOL

Wonderful, thanks for sharing.

The collective never works for the good of the individual... fact

Sure it does. For example, the fact that my neighborhood has an HOA that works as a collective effort to keep certain standards and fund amenities and events in our housing community has raised the property value of my house by a good 15% over the neighborhood next door that does not operate with an HOA. The same principles apply to governments that use the voice of the collective to benefit each individual. Of course there can be over reach and there will always be selfish people like yourself that think they are getting screwed... but for good hearted community minded individuals that value providing service for others, I'd say the function of the "collective" provides plenty of benefits.

A forced collective is evil in every way… fact

 

[ColonelAngus]

Dems still own Obamacare. Good for midterms

You're delusional. The Republicans have demonstrated they are completely useless.

Dems have lost 1000 legislative seats since Obama took office.

Delusional is looking back at you from the mirror.