Dems still own Obamacare. Good for midterms

[Geaux4it]

 

[Rustic]

run early and often on Obamacare!

It seems to me that Republicans in Congress have proved that they are totally incapable of fixing the problem without help. Democrats have admitted changes are needed and are willing to work with Republicans to that end, yet republicans have no interest in doing so.

I don't see voters in the midterm elections continuing to support republican failures. They have repealed Obamacare in the House nearly 60 times and have made no progress enacting a replacement even thou they control both congress and the white house.

The only reason Obamacare is unsustainable is the Trump administration is sabotaging the law administratively by refusing to guarantee the payment of cost-sharing subsidies to insurers and by sending mixed signals about whether it would enforce the mandate that people buy insurance or pay a tax penalty. No wonder insurers are backing out of individual marketplace. The Trump administration is intent on collapsing the individual marketplace and insurers don't want to be caught in it.

That's not to say that changes aren't needed. However, it should be pretty clear to everyone that those changes are not going to come from Republicans.

It cannot be fixed, it's far too fucked up. Let the motherfucker collapse.
Obamacare only suits progressives it is not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
Millions just like me are not obligated to pay the mandate, as the way it should.

You do realize that neither the House or Senate bills replaces Obamacare. Both bills strike out and amend a few sections of the ACA. The essential benefits, the healthcare exchanges, the insurance company requirements, government subsidies and most of the rest of the law remains intact.

That's why they are not being passed, they shouldn't be passed.
Health insurance/single payer is not healthcare. It's just another way to suck the blood out of Americans that want nothing to do with such socialist entitlement programs, and will never use them.

 

[Cellblock2429]

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

/----/ The RINOs don't want to repeal it and the DemocRATS don't want to repeal it. Now do you understand why Trump won to drain the swamp?

 

[Slade3200]

Can you acknowledge any successes of the ACA? Let's see if you can be objective... what say you?

The problem folks like you have is that you assume that because you don't have any integrity nobody else does either. It helped a select few who happened to benefit/qualify for both subsidies and cost sharing. THAT however was a very select few. Without that folks (most folks) were forced into a Bronze plan that didn't help them at all.

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

 

[BluesLegend]

Obama's gift to the Democratic party, Obamacare

 

[Cellblock2429]

The problem folks like you have is that you assume that because you don't have any integrity nobody else does either. It helped a select few who happened to benefit/qualify for both subsidies and cost sharing. THAT however was a very select few. Without that folks (most folks) were forced into a Bronze plan that didn't help them at all.

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

/----- Pre existing could always get coverage but at a higher rate because they were more prone to illness. Your once size fits all is an epic failure.

 

[Rustic]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The people are supporting Obamacare more and more as the GOP butchers their Repeal/Replace plan. Throwing in the towel for repeal only isn't going to help things. Just displays that they don't know what to do.

You can't honestly be implying the Republicans should run with an anti Obamacare message during the midterms after haveing two years with a majority to fix or replace!!! That makes no sense

I know it is supported by those getting the freebies! Those paying for the freebies? Not so much.

There's much more in there than freebies. The people who were most impacted by Obamacare are those who had preexisting conditions. That's the heart of the ACA. It was formed to prevent insurance companies from weeding out the sick so they can cover as many "healthy" people as possible to increase profits. They did also expand Medicaid, you may think it a better idea to let those in poverty to not have health insurance. They end up going to the ER anyways where hospitals eat the costs and then care costs rise. Either way, I'm not hearing any good solutions coming from the GOP. All they are doing is spiking insecurity with all the demonization of Ocare and no unity on productive solutions. The result is increasing the popularity of Obamacare

Obamacare is destroying millions of people's lives, because it only suits progressives. It is not in the best interest of the rest of the country. Fact

The ACA has made life tougher for some and better for others, i'm not going to argue that it is a perfect plan. It has failed on an affordability level and needs many tweaks. But it has shown success and saved lifes for those who are the most vulnerable... those with pre-existing conditions and those in poverty. So do I type "Fact" now to prove this is a true statement? Is that how it works?

The problem is Obamacare only works for progressives, it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country. It would've been so easy to make it an "opt in"...
why force people into something they will never use and do not want?

 

[Slade3200]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The people are supporting Obamacare more and more as the GOP butchers their Repeal/Replace plan. Throwing in the towel for repeal only isn't going to help things. Just displays that they don't know what to do.

You can't honestly be implying the Republicans should run with an anti Obamacare message during the midterms after haveing two years with a majority to fix or replace!!! That makes no sense

Actually people are not, just let the fucker fall apart.
Legislation means less freedoms for people… fact

What freedom did people with pre-existing conditions have to get healthcare when they were getting dropped and denied? What were their options before the ACA that were taken away?

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

 

[Slade3200]

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

/----- Pre existing could always get coverage but at a higher rate because they were more prone to illness. Your once size fits all is an epic failure.

Thats not true... There were many many stories of people who could not get coverage or were dropped... I personally know people who went through this. It was up to the insurance companies to determine who they covered and they could deny people based on their medical history

 

[Doc1]

The problem folks like you have is that you assume that because you don't have any integrity nobody else does either. It helped a select few who happened to benefit/qualify for both subsidies and cost sharing. THAT however was a very select few. Without that folks (most folks) were forced into a Bronze plan that didn't help them at all.

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

 

[Rustic]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The people are supporting Obamacare more and more as the GOP butchers their Repeal/Replace plan. Throwing in the towel for repeal only isn't going to help things. Just displays that they don't know what to do.

You can't honestly be implying the Republicans should run with an anti Obamacare message during the midterms after haveing two years with a majority to fix or replace!!! That makes no sense

Actually people are not, just let the fucker fall apart.
Legislation means less freedoms for people… fact

What freedom did people with pre-existing conditions have to get healthcare when they were getting dropped and denied? What were their options before the ACA that were taken away?

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

 

[Doc1]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

/----- Pre existing could always get coverage but at a higher rate because they were more prone to illness. Your once size fits all is an epic failure.

Thats not true... There were many many stories of people who could not get coverage or were dropped... I personally know people who went through this. It was up to the insurance companies to determine who they covered and they could deny people based on their medical history

You are correct.

 

[Slade3200]

It also helped middle class people with pre existing conditions who didn't need subsidies but just needed coverage. Right?

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

 

[Slade3200]

The people are supporting Obamacare more and more as the GOP butchers their Repeal/Replace plan. Throwing in the towel for repeal only isn't going to help things. Just displays that they don't know what to do.

You can't honestly be implying the Republicans should run with an anti Obamacare message during the midterms after haveing two years with a majority to fix or replace!!! That makes no sense

Actually people are not, just let the fucker fall apart.
Legislation means less freedoms for people… fact

What freedom did people with pre-existing conditions have to get healthcare when they were getting dropped and denied? What were their options before the ACA that were taken away?

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

In other words, YES i'm wasting my time explaining this to you. Your mind is closed and you are just fine staying ignorant. FACT

 

[Rustic]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

It is also destroying millions of people's lives, you do realize that It suits only progressives. The rest of America is forced to pay for something they cannot afford, they do not want and will never use… Fact

 

[Doc1]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

This is the first answer I gave you, it was direct, it was honest, and it remains spot on.

"It helped a select few who happened to benefit/qualify for both subsidies and cost sharing. THAT however was a very select few. Without that folks (most folks) were forced into a Bronze plan that didn't help them at all."

 

[Rustic]

Actually people are not, just let the fucker fall apart.
Legislation means less freedoms for people… fact

What freedom did people with pre-existing conditions have to get healthcare when they were getting dropped and denied? What were their options before the ACA that were taken away?

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

In other words, YES i'm wasting my time explaining this to you. Your mind is closed and you are just fine staying ignorant. FACT

Health insurance, any insurance is a joke, always has been. The whole concept of paying into pool is fraud to begin with.
There is no reason to force people to pay for something they do not want and will never use… Fact

 

[Cellblock2429]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

/----/ Yes I do and I also admit Hitler got the trains to run on time. Now consider the entire picture on Obzocare...........

 

[busybee01]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The trouble is that Obamacare is more popular than Trumpcare. It is not going to work. Republicans own it and if they undermine it as they have, they will be held accountable.

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

I'll say one thing for the Dems! They stick together, march in lockstep, and all speak the same talking points. The Republicans have too many rhinos.

Republicans should have brought in moderate Democrats like Manchin and Heitkamp. A repeal would hurt people in West Virginia who receive subsidies and rural areas like the one Heitkamp represents.

 

[Rustic]

Has Trump's HHS ALREADY stopped enforcing the individual mandate?

Major Blow to Obamacare Mandate: IRS Won't Reject Tax Returns That Don't Answer Health Insurance Question