Dems still own Obamacare. Good for midterms

[Rustic]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The trouble is that Obamacare is more popular than Trumpcare. It is not going to work. Republicans own it and if they undermine it as they have, they will be held accountable.

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

I'll say one thing for the Dems! They stick together, march in lockstep, and all speak the same talking points. The Republicans have too many rhinos.

Republicans should have brought in moderate Democrats like Manchin and Heitkamp. A repeal would hurt people in West Virginia who receive subsidies and rural areas like the one Heitkamp represents.

It's called Obamacare for reason, it's a fuck up.

The only way begin to fix the fuckup, is make obamacare an "opt in"...
forcing socialist entitlement programs on people is an evil act. Fact

 

[Rustic]

Obamacare = let someone else pay for your shit.

 

[WillowTree]

As I said, they were forced into Bronze Plans that carried with (at the time) a $6600 ded. That didn't help them. Now that ded is $7150. Coverage that simply says "you're covered" doesn't help anyone. The argument then becomes "well it's better than nothing", no, because in actuality it IS nothing. They can't afford that either.

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

Is that like a carbon offset? Nevermind the fact that it has harmed millions of others?

 

[Cellblock2429]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The trouble is that Obamacare is more popular than Trumpcare. It is not going to work. Republicans own it and if they undermine it as they have, they will be held accountable.

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

I'll say one thing for the Dems! They stick together, march in lockstep, and all speak the same talking points. The Republicans have too many rhinos.

Republicans should have brought in moderate Democrats like Manchin and Heitkamp. A repeal would hurt people in West Virginia who receive subsidies and rural areas like the one Heitkamp represents.

/----/ The DNC leadership would have crushed any moderate Dem who went along and you know it.

 

[Slade3200]

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

It is also destroying millions of people's lives, you do realize that It suits only progressives. The rest of America is forced to pay for something they cannot afford, they do not want and will never use… Fact

It has nothing to do with "progressives" it benefits, the sick, women, and the poor. It has raised prices for many as well. All of these factors need to be included in our discussions. If you can't acknowledge how it helps people then you can't really have a fair debate. Just like somebody who can't acknowledge who has been hurt by the ACA can't have an honest debate.

 

[WillowTree]

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

It is also destroying millions of people's lives, you do realize that It suits only progressives. The rest of America is forced to pay for something they cannot afford, they do not want and will never use… Fact

It has nothing to do with "progressives" it benefits, the sick, women, and the poor. It has raised prices for many as well. All of these factors need to be included in our discussions. If you can't acknowledge how it helps people then you can't really have a fair debate. Just like somebody who can't acknowledge who has been hurt by the ACA can't have an honest debate.

you cannot debate because you never answer questions or even acknowledge that one has been asked!

 

[Slade3200]

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

This is the first answer I gave you, it was direct, it was honest, and it remains spot on.

"It helped a select few who happened to benefit/qualify for both subsidies and cost sharing. THAT however was a very select few. Without that folks (most folks) were forced into a Bronze plan that didn't help them at all."

I stand corrected, you did give a straight answer, i read it too fast and thought you were only addressing the poor in your response. Apologies. I guess I disagree that it is a very select few... millions of people received Medicaid and coverage with PreCons. That's significant. And while I think it necessary to work on costs I also value lives more than money. Healthcare is not a commodity

 

[WillowTree]

run early and often on Obamacare!

The trouble is that Obamacare is more popular than Trumpcare. It is not going to work. Republicans own it and if they undermine it as they have, they will be held accountable.

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

I'll say one thing for the Dems! They stick together, march in lockstep, and all speak the same talking points. The Republicans have too many rhinos.

Republicans should have brought in moderate Democrats like Manchin and Heitkamp. A repeal would hurt people in West Virginia who receive subsidies and rural areas like the one Heitkamp represents.

It hurts people who have to pay $16,000.00 deductibles too right?

 

[007]

The GOP just demonstrated they can't govern. They had all the power they needed.

And this was AFTER they LIED to us for eight (8) years.

They probably should try to change the subject.
.

As much as I hate to, I agree with you. These fuckers are about as worthless a sack of dog shit.

One tidbit that should be noted though is, republicans/conservatives will openly ridicule and point out jackasses in their party, where as democrats/liberals won't. They circle the wagons and defend even the biggest pieces of shit on the planet as long as they're a dem.

 

[Slade3200]

What freedom did people with pre-existing conditions have to get healthcare when they were getting dropped and denied? What were their options before the ACA that were taken away?

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

In other words, YES i'm wasting my time explaining this to you. Your mind is closed and you are just fine staying ignorant. FACT

Health insurance, any insurance is a joke, always has been. The whole concept of paying into pool is fraud to begin with.
There is no reason to force people to pay for something they do not want and will never use… Fact

Yet it is the system that we have and medical cost are way too high for the vast majority of people to afford. I'm all for a system that can work without the uses of a middleman, but it would need to be implemented in a responsible way. You don't just cut the cord

 

[Slade3200]

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

/----/ Yes I do and I also admit Hitler got the trains to run on time. Now consider the entire picture on Obzocare...........

All things considered, both sides need to stop the partisan posturing and work together to fix the areas of the ACA that are inflating costs. The protections the ACA provides should stay, it appears most people would agree

 

[007]

Why didn't the fuck ups In Washington make Obama care An "opt in"? Anyone can see Obama care/single payer only works for progressives it's not in the best interest of the rest of the country.
You can keep your cancer that is socialism to yourselves…

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

In other words, YES i'm wasting my time explaining this to you. Your mind is closed and you are just fine staying ignorant. FACT

Health insurance, any insurance is a joke, always has been. The whole concept of paying into pool is fraud to begin with.
There is no reason to force people to pay for something they do not want and will never use… Fact

Yet it is the system that we have and medical cost are way too high for the vast majority of people to afford. I'm all for a system that can work without the uses of a middleman, but it would need to be implemented in a responsible way. You don't just cut the cord

The repeal was supposed to be implemented over a 2 year period so that wouldn't happen, but the RINO's owned by big insurance money couldn't even to that.

That's the most perfect example of "THE DEEP STATE" I can point to.

 

[Slade3200]

The average deductible is no where near $7150. You are quoting the amount for individual insurance which only 14% of Americans have. The average deductible is $1,478 annually for covered workers. At small firms, the average deductibles now tops $2,000.

LOL, I never claimed otherwise, did I? The people MOST affected by the ACA were the folks on individual plans.

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

Is that like a carbon offset? Nevermind the fact that it has harmed millions of others?

You still avoiding answering questions by bringing up random shit? It's called kicking the can. It's obnoxious

 

[Slade3200]

You are not making a complete argument. You've been skirting away from acknowledging that the bill has helped many with Pre-existing conditions get coverage. I'll assume that you agree with that unless you state otherwise. I acknowledge that premiums and deductibles have gone up for many people as well making it much harder to pay for their care. If we are going to have a fair discussion about it we need to understand the numbers and choose the best approach. If covering those with PreCons is driving up costs then do we want to drop them so prices can come back down? Can we find a way to offset those costs so they still get coverage and affordable plans can be available for the healthy? These items are what we should be discussing.

I'm not skirting anything, you just aren't getting the answers you want so you think that by discounting them out of hand helps you "win". You're wrong. Again, the ultimate goal was/is/ always has been Single Payer and that's what the ACA was designed to do, collapse the system and force the Nation into it. THAT'S what's working.

I'm not trying to win anything, just trying to have an honest discussion. So let me just ask very simply, do you recognize that Obamacare has provided some provisions that have helped many millions of people? Direct answer please

It is also destroying millions of people's lives, you do realize that It suits only progressives. The rest of America is forced to pay for something they cannot afford, they do not want and will never use… Fact

It has nothing to do with "progressives" it benefits, the sick, women, and the poor. It has raised prices for many as well. All of these factors need to be included in our discussions. If you can't acknowledge how it helps people then you can't really have a fair debate. Just like somebody who can't acknowledge who has been hurt by the ACA can't have an honest debate.

you cannot debate because you never answer questions or even acknowledge that one has been asked!

Are you high? Get a mirror. I directly addressed both of his points on progressives and costs. Reread the discussion. Now go back to our discussion when I asked you to answer a very direct question and you completely avoided it to bring up new subjects that better suited your narratives.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Dems still own Obamacare. Good for midterms

You're delusional. The Republicans have demonstrated they are completely useless.

 

[debbiedowner]

Do you think they've learned anything here? Like a little compromise is better than looking foolish and incompetent?.

What kind of compromise?

Anything that averts the party from looking foolish and incompetent. Anything that is some kind of win instead of a principled loss. Which is worthless.
.

You got to keep obamacare. A win for takers a major loss for the makers. It's unaffordable but you got it. Hooray!

How does it feel to know your party had 8 years to come up with a valid HC bill and they failed miserably?
God knows you'd never be honest enough to admit THAT!!!!!!

have you admitted the ACA is a failure, yet?

It wouldn't have been if the republicans hadn't cut the risk corridors and fucked the health insurance companies. This is why insurance companies are pulling out. Rates were stabilizing for 2018 but without funding this will be dead. Don't come screaming oh my taxes pay for this, did anyone's taxes go up unless they made more money? NO, they didn't.

Did you lose your doctor's because of Obama, NO, you lost them because of network changes that happen all the gd time.

 

[Slade3200]

Before the ACA there was a "Market system" for the most part. The business model for insurance companies benefits when they are covering as many healthy people as possible and minimize the sick people they have to pay for. As a result people with pre-existing conditions were getting dropped, priced out, or denied coverage. Can we agree that was happening?

The ACA forced health insurers to cover people with PreCons, in doing so they were forced to add many more "sick" people to their programs which drove up costs. The only way to offset these costs is to add more healthy people to the program, which is why the mandate was put in place. In addition to the mandate the government also added subsidies to help people pay for the care. This system was successful in some areas and not in other areas. It had and still has many flaws that need to be improved.

Am I wasting my time explaining all this to you? Do you have an open mind at all to acknowledge the complexities of what is going on and have a rational discussion about it?

Anything that's forced on people that don't want it and will never use it is a failure… Fact

In other words, YES i'm wasting my time explaining this to you. Your mind is closed and you are just fine staying ignorant. FACT

Health insurance, any insurance is a joke, always has been. The whole concept of paying into pool is fraud to begin with.
There is no reason to force people to pay for something they do not want and will never use… Fact

Yet it is the system that we have and medical cost are way too high for the vast majority of people to afford. I'm all for a system that can work without the uses of a middleman, but it would need to be implemented in a responsible way. You don't just cut the cord

The repeal was supposed to be implemented over a 2 year period so that wouldn't happen, but the RINO's owned by big insurance money couldn't even to that.

That's the most perfect example of "THE DEEP STATE" I can point to.

Rustic was talking about no insurance at all. That's what I meant by pull the chord. As for the repeal... it is just a cheap way to buy more time for a group of people who just proved to be incompetent of developing a replacement that will be better for the American people. It is an underserved and irresponsible proposition

 

[debbiedowner]

Do you think they've learned anything here? Like a little compromise is better than looking foolish and incompetent?.

What kind of compromise?

Anything that averts the party from looking foolish and incompetent. Anything that is some kind of win instead of a principled loss. Which is worthless.
.

You got to keep obamacare. A win for takers a major loss for the makers. It's unaffordable but you got it. Hooray!

How does it feel to know your party had 8 years to come up with a valid HC bill and they failed miserably?
God knows you'd never be honest enough to admit THAT!!!!!!

It feels disappointing! How does it feel to have produced the most fucked up healthcare bill ever aka Obamacare?

Life is what you make of it. If repub voters hadn't followed like lemmings and sat in front of fox news this could have been great.

 

[debbiedowner]

Repeal and rates go up close to 100% for 2018

 

[bendog]

What kind of compromise?

Anything that averts the party from looking foolish and incompetent. Anything that is some kind of win instead of a principled loss. Which is worthless.
.

You got to keep obamacare. A win for takers a major loss for the makers. It's unaffordable but you got it. Hooray!

How does it feel to know your party had 8 years to come up with a valid HC bill and they failed miserably?
God knows you'd never be honest enough to admit THAT!!!!!!

have you admitted the ACA is a failure, yet?

It wouldn't have been if the republicans hadn't cut the risk corridors and fucked the health insurance companies. This is why insurance companies are pulling out. Rates were stabilizing for 2018 but without funding this will be dead. Don't come screaming oh my taxes pay for this, did anyone's taxes go up unless they made more money? NO, they didn't.

Did you lose your doctor's because of Obama, NO, you lost them because of network changes that happen all the gd time.

The dems do need to put forth a plan before the 18 elections ...
If they weren’t obsessed with the white whale they’ve created, here’s how the Republicans who control Congress could be improving the health care system for millions of Americans: Find ways to make health costs more transparent and consumer decisions more rational. Reduce exorbitant costs for end-of-life care. Extend coverage to the 28 million adult Americans who remain uninsured and often seek treatment in emergency rooms. And give Medicare the right to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical firms.

But don’t expect any of that. Obamacare’s not dead yet.

How the GOP doomed itself on Obamacare