Did The Great Flood Really Happen?

[Stryder50]

A reminder from my post, #17 of this thread;

• 1 Africa
• 2 Americas
  • 2.1 North America
  • 2.2 Mesoamerica
  • 2.3 South America
    • 2.3.1 Canari
    • 2.3.2 Inca
    • 2.3.3 Mapuche
    • 2.3.4 Muisca
    • 2.3.5 Tupi
• 3 Asia
  • 3.1 Ancient Near East
    • 3.1.1 Sumerian
    • 3.1.2 Mesopotamia
    • 3.1.3 Abrahamic religions
  • 3.2 China
  • 3.3 India
  • 3.4 Korea
  • 3.5 Malaysia
  • 3.6 Philippines
  • 3.7 Thailand
  • 3.8 Taiwan's Saisiat Tribe
• 4 Europe
  • 4.1 Classical Antiquity
  • 4.2 Medieval Europe
    • 4.2.1 Irish
    • 4.2.2 Welsh
    • 4.2.3 Norse
    • 4.2.4 Bashkir
  • 4.3 Modern era folklore
    • 4.3.1 Finnish
• 5 Oceania
  • 5.1 Polynesia
• 6 References

...

List of flood myths - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I hope you read some of them. Best evidence for no global flood.

I think you may have misunderstood my intention~purpose.
I didn't present to establish that all relate to the same event, rather to show that "flood legends/myths" are common to many cultures around the globe, through timeline of human experience. Some recorded orally, others in ancient text references.

Some may connect to same events, some may be for different times and places. Many have a common structure or "plot"~tale.

Considering humans~homo sapiens have been around for about 100-150,000+ years, it's likely many such would exist. Some hint towards events related to the end of the Ice Age of about 13-15,000 years ago, others might precede that Ice Age.

 

[mudwhistle]

"It was this event that Pitman and Ryan believe could be the flood recorded in the Book of Genesis. The salt water poured through the deepening channel, creating a waterfall 200 times the volume of Niagara Falls (anyone who has ever traveled to the base of the falls on the Maid of the Mist will have a sense of the power involved). In a single day enough water came through the channel to cover Manhattan to a depth at least two times the height of the World Trade Center, and the roar of the cascading water would have been audible at least 100 miles away. Anyone living in the fertile farmlands on the northern rim of the sea would have had the harrowing experience of seeing the boundary of the ocean move inland at the rate of a mile a day."

Evidence for a Flood

Sediment layers suggest that 7,500 years ago Mediterranean water roared into the Black Sea

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[surada]

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OverviewBlack Sea deluge hypothesisBlack Sea gradual inundation hypothesisLate Pleistocene Great Flood hypothesisControversySee alsoReferences and sourcesFurther reading
In 1997, William Ryan, Walter Pitman and their colleagues first published the Black Sea deluge hypothesis. They proposed that a catastrophic inflow of Mediterranean seawater into the Black Sea freshwater lake occurred at 7150 C years BP (possibly around 7550 calendar years BP). Before that date, glacial meltwater had turned the Black and Caspian Seas into vast freshwater lakes draining into the Aegean Sea. As glaciers retreated, some of the rivers emptying into the Black Sea declined in volume and changed course to drai…

 

[Stryder50]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

I don't have any position on the theology of the Flood but, unless it was a supernatural event unlike any before or since, historically there was no global flood. There is no geological evidence for it and no natural forces that could cause such a global flood.

The burckle crater on the bottom of the indian ocean under 11,000 feet of water dated to the approximate time of gilgamesh is 25 times larger than meteor crater in arizona. The impact would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere causing a worldwide deluge that lasted for weeks, sweeping away every village,town or city built near rivers and streams and washes, worldwide, not to mention the immediate tsunamis that would have swept away all coastal civilizations.

According to scripture the next time the earth, including the atmosphere, will be destroyed is by fire, which would be the result of a similar impact on land or a larger one on the ocean again.

This, or some other similar impact events have been presented as probable cause.
If an impact event and the object detected while still "far out there", that would explain the advance notice and construction of an "ark" to survive. Warning and blueprints provide by the "gawds" ~ ???

Most humans are born with a capacity to anticipate future events that may present as dreams.

Any more highly advanced beings visiting the earth would have been perceived as gawds by our ancestors and any sufficiently highly developed technology would have seemed to them, as well as many today, like magic.

humans have the capacity to drop nuclear weapons anywhere on earth and to warn the people in advance.

Hell, people now have the technology and means to deliberately nudge an asteroid and calculate exactly when and where it will hit on earth.

more advanced living beings from another sphere of intelligent life could have been doing this to the earth for millions of years.

Thanks!

Much of this is what I was implying, but leaving unsaid. So thanks for grabbing the ball and running with it.

There is much that appears to happen before human records recorded. Surviving records that is. And the geological "record" is also far from complete and subject to much subjective interpretation.

My collective impression from many sources is that there is some fantastic stuff ~ events from the time humans~homo sapiens appeared up to the present, and much may be lost in the haze of accounts from before about 6-7,000 years ago when the last round of civilizations and records first appears.

"Evidence" is a dicey item since some will see such and others deny such, and this applies to past events and remains~evidence as much as it does more recent and current events.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

I don't have any position on the theology of the Flood but, unless it was a supernatural event unlike any before or since, historically there was no global flood. There is no geological evidence for it and no natural forces that could cause such a global flood.

The burckle crater on the bottom of the indian ocean under 11,000 feet of water dated to the approximate time of gilgamesh is 25 times larger than meteor crater in arizona. The impact would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere causing a worldwide deluge that lasted for weeks, sweeping away every village,town or city built near rivers and streams and washes, worldwide, not to mention the immediate tsunamis that would have swept away all coastal civilizations.

According to scripture the next time the earth, including the atmosphere, will be destroyed is by fire, which would be the result of a similar impact on land or a larger one on the ocean again.

This, or some other similar impact events have been presented as probable cause.
If an impact event and the object detected while still "far out there", that would explain the advance notice and construction of an "ark" to survive. Warning and blueprints provide by the "gawds" ~ ???

Most humans are born with a capacity to anticipate future events that may present as dreams.

Any more highly advanced beings visiting the earth would have been perceived as gawds by our ancestors and any sufficiently highly developed technology would have seemed to them, as well as many today, like magic.

humans have the capacity to drop nuclear weapons anywhere on earth and to warn the people in advance.

Hell, people now have the technology and means to deliberately nudge an asteroid and calculate exactly when and where it will hit on earth.

more advanced living beings from another sphere of intelligent life could have been doing this to the earth for millions of years.

Thanks!

Much of this is what I was implying, but leaving unsaid. So thanks for grabbing the ball and running with it.

There is much that appears to happen before human records recorded. Surviving records that is. And the geological "record" is also far from complete and subject to much subjective interpretation.

My collective impression from many sources is that there is some fantastic stuff ~ events from the time humans~homo sapiens appeared up to the present, and much may be lost in the haze of accounts from before about 6-7,000 years ago when the last round of civilizations and records first appears.

"Evidence" is a dicey item since some will see such and others deny such, and this applies to past events and remains~evidence as much as it does more recent and current events.

You do understand, i hope, that casting a blanket of irrational doubt on all evidence does not in ANY way lend evidence or credence to anything you say or imply....right? In fact, it does precisely the opposite, just as it does to any other idea. You guys pull the rug out from under yourselves without even realizing it.

 

[Stryder50]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

I don't have any position on the theology of the Flood but, unless it was a supernatural event unlike any before or since, historically there was no global flood. There is no geological evidence for it and no natural forces that could cause such a global flood.

The burckle crater on the bottom of the indian ocean under 11,000 feet of water dated to the approximate time of gilgamesh is 25 times larger than meteor crater in arizona. The impact would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere causing a worldwide deluge that lasted for weeks, sweeping away every village,town or city built near rivers and streams and washes, worldwide, not to mention the immediate tsunamis that would have swept away all coastal civilizations.

According to scripture the next time the earth, including the atmosphere, will be destroyed is by fire, which would be the result of a similar impact on land or a larger one on the ocean again.

This, or some other similar impact events have been presented as probable cause.
If an impact event and the object detected while still "far out there", that would explain the advance notice and construction of an "ark" to survive. Warning and blueprints provide by the "gawds" ~ ???

Most humans are born with a capacity to anticipate future events that may present as dreams.

Any more highly advanced beings visiting the earth would have been perceived as gawds by our ancestors and any sufficiently highly developed technology would have seemed to them, as well as many today, like magic.

humans have the capacity to drop nuclear weapons anywhere on earth and to warn the people in advance.

Hell, people now have the technology and means to deliberately nudge an asteroid and calculate exactly when and where it will hit on earth.

more advanced living beings from another sphere of intelligent life could have been doing this to the earth for millions of years.

Thanks!

Much of this is what I was implying, but leaving unsaid. So thanks for grabbing the ball and running with it.

There is much that appears to happen before human records recorded. Surviving records that is. And the geological "record" is also far from complete and subject to much subjective interpretation.

My collective impression from many sources is that there is some fantastic stuff ~ events from the time humans~homo sapiens appeared up to the present, and much may be lost in the haze of accounts from before about 6-7,000 years ago when the last round of civilizations and records first appears.

"Evidence" is a dicey item since some will see such and others deny such, and this applies to past events and remains~evidence as much as it does more recent and current events.

You do understand, i hope, that casting a blanket of irrational doubt on all evidence does not in ANY way lend evidence or credence to anything you say or imply....right? In fact, it does precisely the opposite, just as it does to any other idea. You guys pull the rug out from under yourselves without even realizing it.

I think you may misunderstand.

Not a "casting a blanket of irrational doubt on all evidence" so much as stating how one side's "evidence" can be seen by another side as "fable". Often these reflect subjective bias. For example the case of those whom want to take the words in the Bible/OT as verbatim versus those whom see such as more allegorical, or distorted, or exaggerated.

Earth is a relatively new world/planet based on what we think we know about the formation and age of the universe. And humans a very new and recent species on this planet. Yet still, been here long enough to wonder if anything was accomplished before the last Ice Age and "Noah's Flood". ??? !!!

Consider that most timelines suggest that "The Flood" may have been within the past 13-15,000 years matching up with the end of the last Ice Age; when those mile thick glaciers rapidly melted away and flood many areas of the globe. Yet within a few to several thousand years afterward there are enough humans present to start the seeds of "first" civilizations about 6-7,000 years or so, ago, and in many parts/regions of our planet.

Or, if we take the theological texts/dogmas like the OT of the Bible literally, just those @ 8 humans surviving on the Ark and within the past 15,000 (or less) years; YET we have the sum of our historical records, rise and fall of scores of civilizations, and pushing about 8 billion people on this planet. Rather fantastic results some might say.

Or, to use other accounts from around the global and timelines, scattered survivors in many other global locations of what might be seen as a global disaster, or chain of disasters. ??? !!!

This is a jigsaw sort of puzzle with many pieces, some can fit in many ways with each other, but collectively they could present a picture beyond what most of us have been taught to see, or expect/accept.

Either way and collectively, we could be seeing what the late Charles Fort observed, to paraphrase;
"That we humans, and our world(planet=Earth), are the property of "Others"!

Or put another way, we 'humans' are but " livestock that come with the 'farm' "!!!

With that in mind, Genesis Chapter 6, verses 1-4/8, take on a new and underlain subtext of many and varied meanings....

(Continued in another post)

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Consider that most timelines suggest that "The Flood" may have been within the past 13-15,000 years

The Flood occurred about 2,000 BC

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

so much as stating how one side's "evidence" can be seen by another side as "fable"

Then yes, casting a blanket of irrational doubt on evidence is precisely what you are doing. That is why you are being obtuse and providing no examples.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Flood occurred about 2,000 BC

False. We can rule that out.

 

[Stryder50]

Consider that most timelines suggest that "The Flood" may have been within the past 13-15,000 years

The Flood occurred about 2,000 BC

Please document this claim of yours.
Which "flood"?
Where ?
Etc. ... ???

 

[Stryder50]

so much as stating how one side's "evidence" can be seen by another side as "fable"

Then yes, casting a blanket of irrational doubt on evidence is precisely what you are doing. That is why you are being obtuse and providing no examples.

Start by stating which "evidence" you are referring to.
Then we can proceed to whether there is any "blanket of irrational doubt " or just a lack of your ability to grasp and comprehend the subject.

As I mentioned, some examples will be forthcoming ... patience ... (unless your check paying me to post is already in transit/deposit).

 

[Stryder50]

For reference sake, an excerpt/quote of the Biblical OT and Genesis;
...

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
...

Genesis chapter 6 KJV (King James Version)

Genesis chapter 6 KJV (King James Version)

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[mudwhistle]

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OverviewBlack Sea deluge hypothesisBlack Sea gradual inundation hypothesisLate Pleistocene Great Flood hypothesisControversySee alsoReferences and sourcesFurther reading
In 1997, William Ryan, Walter Pitman and their colleagues first published the Black Sea deluge hypothesis. They proposed that a catastrophic inflow of Mediterranean seawater into the Black Sea freshwater lake occurred at 7150 C years BP (possibly around 7550 calendar years BP). Before that date, glacial meltwater had turned the Black and Caspian Seas into vast freshwater lakes draining into the Aegean Sea. As glaciers retreated, some of the rivers emptying into the Black Sea declined in volume and changed course to drai…

Here's the rub.....if we take Hollywood's version, or the literal translation of the Bible as fact,....then we're going to be disappointed. I think Cecil B. Demille took alot of artistic license when he made religious movies back in the early days of Hollywood. And the Bible is filled with Parables. Even Jesus said his stories weren't to be taken as actual events. The fact that they embellished on the storyline doesn't mean the Bible is total rubbish....and it doesn't mean the lessons that are taught in it are hogwash.

When it comes to a flood...a ten foot tsunami wave has enough force to wipe out an entire town in Indonesia. I'm sure they all were tipped off to it, right? Imagine if one hit them in one day that was 50 or 100 feet if you're close to the breech. Never mind the fact that some farmers couldn't find it so easy to just move their animals miles and miles out of harms way....long-term floods are a huge problem even today. (Just ask New Orleans) Especially if you're surrounded by tribes that fought over every water hole in the region. I think there has to be some explanation for what happened.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Start by stating which "evidence" you are referring to.

That's your job. Instead of being vague and saying "some", be a little more specific. We can, of course, both give examples wherein, if someone callls the evidence "fable", they are just objectively wrong. So what we need are examples of what you are saying. If you don't delineate which evidence in some manner, then you are referring to all evidence.

 

[Stryder50]

The Flood occurred about 2,000 BC

False. We can rule that out.

How?
Document please.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Flood occurred about 2,000 BC

False. We can rule that out.

How?
Document please.

Because we know there isn't enough water on the planet to do what the bible suggests, for one. We could just stop here.

Second, we can definitively rule out such a population bottleneck in our DNA and mRNA. We could stop here as well.

Third, such a flood would leave evidence in the ground strata. No such evidence exists. This absence of evidence is indeed definitive evidence of absence, no matter what a cute quote says.

 

[Stryder50]

Start by stating which "evidence" you are referring to.

That's your job. Instead of being vague and saying "some", be a little more specific. We can, of course, both give examples wherein, if someone callls the evidence "fable", they are just objectively wrong. So what we need are examples of what you are saying. If you don't delineate which evidence in some manner, then you are referring to all evidence.

No!

I haven't a clue where or what you are inferring to so the request you provide some specifics of what you are talking about.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Start by stating which "evidence" you are referring to.

That's your job. Instead of being vague and saying "some", be a little more specific. We can, of course, both give examples wherein, if someone callls the evidence "fable", they are just objectively wrong. So what we need are examples of what you are saying. If you don't delineate which evidence in some manner, then you are referring to all evidence.

No!

I haven't a clue where or what you are inferring to so the request you provide some specifics of what you are talking about.

I am far too bored by this to rehash the discussion. Nothing personal. But anytime you want to give me an example where proper evidence can rightly be called "fable", i am all ears.

 

[Dadoalex]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

The "Great Flood" is what it is. An explanation for the finding of bones than belonged to no living animal.

 

[surada]

Did the Great Flood really happen? - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online

Many Christians today argue the flood story is only a myth. It is a cautionary tale, not intended for literal interpretation. What's important, they say, is that we accept the lessons in the story rather than the story itself. There is merit to this approach. The story has no value if we ignore the lessons it teaches.

Well....we always found sea shells in Montana when I was a kid....so there may be something to it.

Of course 30 million years ago there was an inland sea. Nothing todo with Noah.

REally.....were you here then?

Archaeologist claims evidence of Noah’s biblical flood

Robert Ballard, the underwater archaeologist famed for discovering the wreck of the Titanic in 1985, claims to have found evidence of the floodwaters that carried Noah and his ark.

www.foxnews.com

Robert Ballard is a con man.. He's been debunked.