Did you Support War in Iraq??

[The Banker]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

 

[U2Edge]

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians.

You certainly did - If one civilian was killed you supported it. If you supported it for the reason you stated you are a self deluded Iraq killer. No invasion - No insurgency and eventually no ISIS. You supported killing every one. Its a fact.

Well, I guess I will be the first to inform you that there was opposition to SADDAM and fighting within Iraq BEFORE the United States removed SADDAM from power. Then of course there is SADDAM's invasions and attacks on countries like Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

YOU obviously want SADDAM back. I don't and see how its good thing that he is gone. Just as removing Hitler and the other Axis regimes from power was a good thing for the world, so was removing Saddam's regime.

You want to vote for SADDAM, fine. But I believe that the current Iraqi government is far better than Saddam's regime, and the world is safer and benefits as a result.

Just out of curiosity, do you support the removal of Adolf Hitler from power in Germany? Or do you believe like with SADDAM, that was wrong, and that every civilian that died was the fault not of Hitler by the United States and its Allies.

 

[surada]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Saddam was no threat to the Persian Gulf or any one else. Iraq was crippled by 2 decades of war and sanctions.. That's why all the Arabs including the Saudis and the Emirates opposed the invasion.. as did oilmen, expats, diplomats and historians.

Israel wanted Saddam gone.. See Clean Break Strategy.

All these neocon amateurs did was uptturn the Dual Containment Policy and make Iran ascendant.

Saddam invaded Iran, Invaded and Annexed Kuwait, invaded and attacked Saudi Arabia, and attacked Israel. SADDAM was the first leader in world history to INVADE and ANNEX an entire country since Adolf Hitler did it.

As for sanctions Saddam had wiggled out from under that. With massive natural resource wealth sitting just below the Surface, Saddam had Billion's of dollars worth of resources to finance the rebuilding of the Iraqi military. Saddam was already selling Billions of dollars of oil on the Black Market in the period from 2000 to 2002.

Most of the Arab's wanted Saddam gone which is why the continued to support and facilitate U.S. military operations in the region. Countries like Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Israel are actually much more on the same page in recent years when it comes to Foreign Policy and International Security than they had been in the past.

I don't know of any Oilman, expats, diplomats or historians that has written a book lamenting the removal SADDAM's regime from power. If you do know of one, please provide the link.

The containment policy for SADDAM collapsed long before the 2003 invasion. The Russians, Chinese, and French all committed violations of the Sanctions and Embargo. Containment was never an effective long term strategy in this case which is why removing Saddam became a necessity after he successfully survived the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War and actually started to grow in strength, and less likely to be removed internally.

Now Iraq and its people are free of SADDAM, free of sanctions, free of the embargo and are able to trade freely with the rest of the world. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are SAFER with SADDAM out of power because the current Iraqi government as a much more modest military and no desire for aggressive military adventures and conquest as SADDAM proved during his time in power.

Cheney lied to King Abdullah about Iraq, they weren't massed on the Saudi border and they did NO damage to KSA.

Kuwait was in the wrong in 1991.. and Kuwait had long been a province of Iraq. Saddam sort of got sucker punched into that. KSA forgave the Iraqi OPEC quota debt Saddam incurred when he was fighting our proxy war against Iran.. Kuwait didn't and then kept stealing oil from the oilfield they shared.

US foreign policy in Iraq was the dumbest, most dishonest, keystone cops routine ever... and look what it cost our young soldiers and the taxpayers. Disgusting.

Its something we should be ashamed of.

Israel wanted Saddam taken out and Syria isolated and destabilized.. Read Clean Break Strategy.

 

[U2Edge]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates did not experience any problems from Saddam's removal, nor were they effected by the Arab Spring in 2011

 

[surada]

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians.

You certainly did - If one civilian was killed you supported it. If you supported it for the reason you stated you are a self deluded Iraq killer. No invasion - No insurgency and eventually no ISIS. You supported killing every one. Its a fact.

Well, I guess I will be the first to inform you that there was opposition to SADDAM and fighting within Iraq BEFORE the United States removed SADDAM from power. Then of course there is SADDAM's invasions and attacks on countries like Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

YOU obviously want SADDAM back. I don't and see how its good thing that he is gone. Just as removing Hitler and the other Axis regimes from power was a good thing for the world, so was removing Saddam's regime.

You want to vote for SADDAM, fine. But I believe that the current Iraqi government is far better than Saddam's regime, and the world is safer and benefits as a result.

Just out of curiosity, do you support the removal of Adolf Hitler from power in Germany? Or do you believe like with SADDAM, that was wrong, and that every civilian that died was the fault not of Hitler by the United States and its Allies.

Do you know anything at all about the Middle East or the oil business or the history of Iraq and the Gulf States? Neither did Dubya.

 

[surada]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates did not experience any problems from Saddam's removal, nor were they effected by the Arab Spring in 2011

You have never set foot in Iraq or any of the countries you listed..

ISIS was born in Camp Brucca Prison in Iraq in 2004. It was touted as the finishing school for Jihadis. The Gulf States saw it coming, but YOU know better. Right?

 

[Likkmee]

 

[The Banker]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates did not experience any problems from Saddam's removal, nor were they effected by the Arab Spring in 2011

yup the mid east was a beacon of stability in 2005, with terrorists from the entire mid east running wild in Iraq and the surrounding countries.

Trumpers have a hard time accepting reality, basically you people will fabricate any lie or excuse in order to ignore reality.

But hey, the war in Iraq was worth the insaney massive costs and it wazs great policy. We should have a war in Iraq every year, America will only get stronger from more wars in Iraq.

Sometime common sense isn't so common
-Voltaire

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq.

Not confused. W’s invasion and the removal of SH left a void and Jihadist terrorist filled it and the Sunni Shia conflict destabilized region big time.

As far as the Arab Spring it had nothing to Do with US initiating the policy. It was an entirely different story with the removal of SH by blitzkrieg shock and awe in March 2003. If you support that blitzkrieg shock and awe that killed half a million Iraqis because you wanted SH removed and put a democracy in the Middle East then you need to ask yourself why in the hell W started it in March 2003 when the US military and the state department we’re not ready to set up a government in Iraq that would prevent an insurgency and the mess that Iactually happened. You need to take responsibility for the actions that involve killing people when you choose to support wars if aggression in such willy-nilly fashion. Always thought Independents had more brains and morality than Republicans but I guess not all of them.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Just out of curiosity, do you support the removal of Adolf Hitler from power in Germany?

F.U. You are not developed intellectually enough to respond to such garbage. Read my posts in this thread.

GWB put the United States more in the role the same as Germany with blitzkrieg shock and awe into Iraq in March 2003. Germany was the most powerful country on earth in 1939 when Hitler invaded weak defenseless Poland. Do you see the similarities of the most powerful country on earth in 2003 invading weak defenseless Iraq and Germany invading weak defenseless Poland.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Most of the Arab's wanted Saddam gone which is why the continued to support and facilitate U.S. military operations in the region.

That is a lie. The region and and his neighbors wanted inspections to continue. He would be no threat if disarmed of WMD. Were you born before 1993?

I think a ten year old in 2003 would understand what went on?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors.

Iraq was not a threat when W invaded. No reason to invade and kill all those Iraqis and waste (Trump says) $7 trillion on a disaster. Even a dumb ass like trump could figure it out, what’s wrong with you?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The anti-Christian bigotry from lefties like you

I’m not much of a lefty or anti-Christian. I have been praising your Christian Republican Trump for seeking and finding the truth about the lies W told and the lies you swallowed regarding Iraq.,

 

[Correll]

I've been addressing the topic constantly.

You are a liar. You avoid addressing the specific issue of white evangelicals strong support for the invasion of Iraq and their later strong support for DJT who told them their support for the invasion was a disaster as compared to black evangelicals opposition to the war whose opposition to the war according to DJT was correct.

Since Iraq was not on the ballot why are you bringing up that white evangelicals were voting on border and class issues.

I understand that all Republican voters loved racist Trump ....

Alright, that is as much of that nonsense as I can stomach.

1. Trump is not wacist. Only wace baiting assholes claim he is or was.

2. There is no issue of "white evangelical support" for the war AND their later support for DJT. Only you seem to think that means anything, and you are not clear what you think it means.

3. I brought up what the issues were, because you seem confused about that.

4. The Republican party was supporting racial equality back when you people were still electing klansmen to Congress.

 

[Correll]

Changing opinion or support of the war? That is a new concept to be introduced in this late date? What are you talking about?

I thought you said you have addressed it. Its not changing opinion - its addressing the changed knowable facts and what DJT says about knowable facts.

You're not making much sense here.


What is your point? State is clearly, and without the fucking partisan filler.

 

[Correll]

Who cares about Trump's opinion on the matter?

There are huge personal differences between W and DJT but studying the Iraq invasion in historic detail in the context of their claimed religion and their white evangelical Iraq war supporters reveals a certain continuity between the two FORMER presidents. Both were disasters in different ways. But both disasters were fully endorsed without question by white evangelical Christians - the largest loosely organized voting block in the GOP. its worth study.

That is nonsense. Based on nothing but, your utter inability to respect opposing points of view.

 

[U2Edge]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Saddam was no threat to the Persian Gulf or any one else. Iraq was crippled by 2 decades of war and sanctions.. That's why all the Arabs including the Saudis and the Emirates opposed the invasion.. as did oilmen, expats, diplomats and historians.

Israel wanted Saddam gone.. See Clean Break Strategy.

All these neocon amateurs did was uptturn the Dual Containment Policy and make Iran ascendant.

Saddam invaded Iran, Invaded and Annexed Kuwait, invaded and attacked Saudi Arabia, and attacked Israel. SADDAM was the first leader in world history to INVADE and ANNEX an entire country since Adolf Hitler did it.

As for sanctions Saddam had wiggled out from under that. With massive natural resource wealth sitting just below the Surface, Saddam had Billion's of dollars worth of resources to finance the rebuilding of the Iraqi military. Saddam was already selling Billions of dollars of oil on the Black Market in the period from 2000 to 2002.

Most of the Arab's wanted Saddam gone which is why the continued to support and facilitate U.S. military operations in the region. Countries like Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Israel are actually much more on the same page in recent years when it comes to Foreign Policy and International Security than they had been in the past.

I don't know of any Oilman, expats, diplomats or historians that has written a book lamenting the removal SADDAM's regime from power. If you do know of one, please provide the link.

The containment policy for SADDAM collapsed long before the 2003 invasion. The Russians, Chinese, and French all committed violations of the Sanctions and Embargo. Containment was never an effective long term strategy in this case which is why removing Saddam became a necessity after he successfully survived the aftermath of the 1991 Gulf War and actually started to grow in strength, and less likely to be removed internally.

Now Iraq and its people are free of SADDAM, free of sanctions, free of the embargo and are able to trade freely with the rest of the world. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are SAFER with SADDAM out of power because the current Iraqi government as a much more modest military and no desire for aggressive military adventures and conquest as SADDAM proved during his time in power.

Cheney lied to King Abdullah about Iraq, they weren't massed on the Saudi border and they did NO damage to KSA.

Kuwait was in the wrong in 1991.. and Kuwait had long been a province of Iraq. Saddam sort of got sucker punched into that. KSA forgave the Iraqi OPEC quota debt Saddam incurred when he was fighting our proxy war against Iran.. Kuwait didn't and then kept stealing oil from the oilfield they shared.

US foreign policy in Iraq was the dumbest, most dishonest, keystone cops routine ever... and look what it cost our young soldiers and the taxpayers. Disgusting.

Its something we should be ashamed of.

Israel wanted Saddam taken out and Syria isolated and destabilized.. Read Clean Break Strategy.

I didn't know we had a SADDAM apologist in the forum. None of that BULLSHIT excuses what SADDAM did in August of 1990. SADDAM had no right to invade Kuwait. He also had no right to ANNEX Kuwait.

The United States has done the right with respect to protecting Persian Gulf Natural resources and ensuring stability. The current Iraqi government is far better than SADDAM's government. Its not a threat to its neighbors and is far more civilized towards the Iraqi people. Kuwait today is safer with respect to Iraq and so is Saudi Arabia.

The only people that should be ashamed is SADDAM and SADDAM's supporters and defenders.

 

[U2Edge]

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians.

You certainly did - If one civilian was killed you supported it. If you supported it for the reason you stated you are a self deluded Iraq killer. No invasion - No insurgency and eventually no ISIS. You supported killing every one. Its a fact.

Well, I guess I will be the first to inform you that there was opposition to SADDAM and fighting within Iraq BEFORE the United States removed SADDAM from power. Then of course there is SADDAM's invasions and attacks on countries like Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

YOU obviously want SADDAM back. I don't and see how its good thing that he is gone. Just as removing Hitler and the other Axis regimes from power was a good thing for the world, so was removing Saddam's regime.

You want to vote for SADDAM, fine. But I believe that the current Iraqi government is far better than Saddam's regime, and the world is safer and benefits as a result.

Just out of curiosity, do you support the removal of Adolf Hitler from power in Germany? Or do you believe like with SADDAM, that was wrong, and that every civilian that died was the fault not of Hitler by the United States and its Allies.

Do you know anything at all about the Middle East or the oil business or the history of Iraq and the Gulf States? Neither did Dubya.

Far more than you it appears so far.

 

[U2Edge]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates did not experience any problems from Saddam's removal, nor were they effected by the Arab Spring in 2011

You have never set foot in Iraq or any of the countries you listed..

ISIS was born in Camp Brucca Prison in Iraq in 2004. It was touted as the finishing school for Jihadis. The Gulf States saw it coming, but YOU know better. Right?

Some people link ISIS to certain groups from the past, but ISIS in its 2014 form would never have existed if the United States had not pre-maturely withdrawn from Iraq in 2011. Anyways, ISIS is largely defeated now.

 

[U2Edge]

Err, yes, it is overlapping groups of voters. The voters broke according to some groups in one election, ie conservatives, religious vs the way they broke the next one, which was more class and social economic status.

That those groups, are very much intertwined, means overlap.


The issues? I barely remember the issues that drove Bush's campaign. They were rendered mostly moot by 9-11.

Trump? He ran on very different issues, trade and immigration.

IRAQ was never on the ballot. This thread is about support for killing half a million Iraqis or opposing it. Bush of course decided to do it and Trump says Bush created a disaster in Iraq.,

if you can’t address the topic it’s ok. I understand why.

No one who supported the Iraq War supported killing any Iraqi civilians. They supported removing Saddam from power because it was in the interest of the United States and the rest of the world given Saddam's continued threat to Persian Gulf Energy Supply. This whole thing was started by Saddam when he illegally invaded and annexed Kuwait in August of 1990. The number of civilian deaths in Iraq, MIGHT be as high as 200,000, and most of them died as a result of insurgent bombings and insurgent attacks. A far smaller number died from U.S. and coalition military action and in nearly every case were accidents. The United States and coalition forces goal was to save lives, while the insurgents goal was to kill as many people as possible.

In any event, the United States and the coalition won, because the Iraqi government it helped put in to power is still in power. In addition, violence in Iraq has dropped to very low levels. Insurgent activity dropped off considerably. Iraq today has a government that is relatively stable and NOT A THREAT to its neighbors like Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, or Persian Gulf oil supply that is vital to the global economy. Last year, the rate of death in Iraq from violence was half the rate of death from violence in California. Its a good comparison because both California and Iraq have a population of 40 million people. 902 Iraqi civilians died from violence in 2020, while nearly 1,800 people died in California from violence in 2020.

So far in 2021, the number of people that have died in Chicago from violence, is greater than the number that have died from violence in Iraq.

While the future is unknown, at this point the United States and its coalition Allies helped create a government that is relatively stable and not a threat to its neighbors or Persian Gulf Energy supply, like SADDAM's regime was a threat to those entities. It helped to create a more peaceful country that is no longer sanctioned and embargoed because of the actions of its leader.

The deaths of any innocent civilians are the responsibility of SADDAM, Al Quada, and ISIS, just as the Axis powers were responsible for the tragic civilian death toll in World War II.

Brilliant, yup the War in Iraq was a huge success. We should do it again sometime. The $ trillions wasted, and all the US deaths, AND continued trama/healthcare cost for veterans was definitely worth it.

The reality remains that SADDAM's regime was successfully removed and a new Iraqi government was installed that is not a threat to its neighbors. Those are undeniable FACTS! Its not a waste of money or U.S. lives to do something that makes the region, world and United States safer!

Annual U.S. defense spending from 2001 through 2021 as a percentage of GDP has been lower than it was during the peacetime of the 1980s.

.
This right here is why republicans are a total joke, and a total failure. The War in Iraq was a terrible terrible decision that harmed America substantially more than it helped it.

Only retard Republicans think the war in Iraq was a success.

You dumb fucks are too stupid to recognize that the massive costs for the War in Iraq in no way justify the results.

This is why the GOP is the party of total failure, because of decisions like this. Waste all these American resources for minimal bennefit to America...

The GOP will always be the party of failure and failed results, this retard just reminded all of us of that fact.

Just saying that something was a failure and a mistake does not make it so. The United State objective of removing Saddam's regime and replacing it with a government that was more stable and at peace with its neighbors was achieved.

Oh, and the Republican Party of 2021 is NOT the Republican Party of 2000 or 2004. Joe Biden is closer to the Republican Party of 2004 than today's current Republican Party.

I'm more of an independent as my views do not neatly fit in with either of today's major political party's although I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and tend to support the current Democratic Party more than today's Republicans.

Wow that is stupid.

Would you buy a 2 bedroom house in the hood for $1 Mill???

Everything has a price.

This is the exact reason why the GOP is a total failure, you people lack 2nd level thinking. The money and lives and resources spent in the failed Bush War in Iraq, and the total destabilization of the Mid east that resulted from the war, were in no way worth the end result of removing Saddam.

If you don't have the intelligence to recognize that then this debate can go no further, due to you being retarded.

This is why the GOP has failed America and why all the major problems in our country are the result of failed GOP policy and logic.
The GOP has an inability to think logically about every single issue in our country.

The Middle East was not destabilized with Saddam's removal. Your confusing the Arab Spring that started in early 2011 and involved other countries with Iraq. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and United Arab Emirates did not experience any problems from Saddam's removal, nor were they effected by the Arab Spring in 2011

yup the mid east was a beacon of stability in 2005, with terrorists from the entire mid east running wild in Iraq and the surrounding countries.

Trumpers have a hard time accepting reality, basically you people will fabricate any lie or excuse in order to ignore reality.

But hey, the war in Iraq was worth the insaney massive costs and it wazs great policy. We should have a war in Iraq every year, America will only get stronger from more wars in Iraq.

Sometime common sense isn't so common
-Voltaire

I'm not a Trumper. As I said I voted for Biden in the last election and Hillary Clinton before that.


There was no significant instability in any country that bordered Iraq in 2005. Not in Syria, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia or Kuwait. In fact, all six of those countries remained stable through to today with the exception of Syria, BUT NOT until early 2011 with Syria!

Nobody wants war, but this was a necessity for the future stability and well being of the world. The world is better off with Saddam out of power.