Dissecting John Stossel's Anti-Communist Lies

[scruffy]

In the not-too-distant future, it's the communists who will be free and fully empowered, while the rest of humanity will be enslaved under their techno-feudal lords.

Ri-i-ight. Good luck with that.

 

[Red Front]

Thanks for admitting that you're the moron.

Actually, I'm not a moron because unlike you, when I'm wrong I admit it. I will admit I'm wrong even when the person who calls me out and corrects me is insulting me. All atoms aren't the same, you're correct about atomic precision manufacturing machines (i.e. APMMs), not being able to turn water into shoes or a pizza. The following video shows an APMM being fed "raw materials", but that doesn't imply that we can just pour water into it and it will generate anything we want, like a block of gold.etc. I don't have enough knowledge about physics to know exactly what Drexler is saying with respect to the manipulation of atoms, so I retract my statement. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[scruffy]

Actually, I'm not a moron because unlike you, when I'm wrong I admit it. I will admit I'm wrong even when the person who calls me out and corrects me is insulting me. All atoms aren't the same, you're correct about atomic precision manufacturing machines (i.e. APMMs), not being able to turn water into shoes or a pizza. The following video shows an APMM being fed "raw materials", but that doesn't imply that we can just pour water into it and it will generate anything we want, like a block of gold.etc. I don't have enough knowledge about physics to know exactly what Drexler is saying with respect to the manipulation of atoms, so I retract my statement. Thanks for correcting me.

I know physics, at least a little.

Do you know how much energy it takes to get a proton to sit next to another proton?

Lots. About the same amount of energy as there is in the sun. That's what happens in the sun, there's so much energy the protons are freed from their ordinary constraints and they can travel around in a sort of liquidy plasma

We're talking about nuclear fusion. If you want to turn hydrogen into something else, you have to "add protons". And maybe neutrons. And other things too.

 

[westwall]

I know physics, at least a little.

Do you know how much energy it takes to get a proton to sit next to another proton?

Lots. About the same amount of energy as there is in the sun. That's what happens in the sun, there's so much energy the protons are freed from their ordinary constraints and they can travel around in a sort of liquidy plasma

We're talking about nuclear fusion. If you want to turn hydrogen into something else, you have to "add protons". And maybe neutrons. And other things too.

It's cool, commie front is a super dooper nucular phizicalist! He can make magic happen!

 

[Red Front]

Ri-i-ight. Good luck with that.

This is easy. The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit. If we organize production without capitalists, hence the problem is solved. We don't have to become serfs or slaves living off of a government check. The state doesn't have to bail out the capitalists on a monthly basis with a UBI, keeping capitalism on life support. The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

We work 20 hours weekly, supervising the robots and in return, we get to keep our property (homes, vehicles, personal items, shotguns, and ammo, we can accommodate the rednecks in this new modern society, no problem), we also have a right to be housed if we lack housing, we have a right to one laptop computer, one desktop computer, every three years, and of course, a right to three gallons of milk weekly..etc. If we can work and we meet our obligations to society, by "supervising the robots" 20 hours weekly, we can go to a store and withdraw whatever we have a right to.

If I have a right to two pairs of shoes every two weeks, does that imply that I'm going to get two pairs of shoes every two weeks, for the next two years? No. I personally have about ten pairs of shoes now, and that's enough for me. There are people in society who hoard stuff and they will get two pairs of shoes, every two weeks, even when they have over 150 pairs of shoes. Thankfully, most people aren't like that, but yes there will be hoarders who will fill their closets and their bedrooms, with hundreds of shoes.

Maybe there can be a mechanism in the system that will identify these types of hoarders and will require them to justify to an AI manager or an actual human manager, why they need 100s of pairs of shoes? Any hoarder can get away with it for a while but eventually the system will stop them from hoarding. Will set reasonable limits. Even most wealthy people now don't have hundreds of pairs of shoes (I know a lot of rich people). They might have twenty, thirty pairs, but 100s? No. So in a resource based economy where society produces everything to meet human needs using the latest technology, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living.

There's no need for capitalism in the future, when technology allows us to automate the production, storage and delivery of the products we consume. The logistics and accounting of production can be adequately handled by technology (computers, AI..etc). The central planning department will be run mostly by AI and super-computers, so we will know exactly how to meet all of our consumption needs. Again, no need for capitalism or markets, hence the so-called "unemployment crisis" is a "no-burger". It's not working-class people who are in trouble, it's the capitalists, the billionairs who will mostly need to readjust.

We see these billionaires in interviews saying how the public is in trouble due to a supposed "tech apocalypse" in the future that will render most people completely useless, if not worthless. But no, that's only if we measure human value from the point of view of a billionaire capitalist who sees most people as commodities to be purchased for eight or twelve hours plus daily for their labor power. It's actually the capitalist who needs to fear the "tech apocalypse", not the working-class or 95% of the population. These rich people think they're going to continue living comfortably in full control of the resources and means of production, while 95% of the population is suffering. Life doesn't work that way. It's not that easy.

It's better for those who are currently in power to start socializing and democratizing production now, before the so-called "tech apocalypse". That will avoid the pitchforks from coming out, a.k.a. a violent revolution.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually, I'm not a moron because unlike you, when I'm wrong I admit it. I will admit I'm wrong even when the person who calls me out and corrects me is insulting me. All atoms aren't the same, you're correct about atomic precision manufacturing machines (i.e. APMMs), not being able to turn water into shoes or a pizza. The following video shows an APMM being fed "raw materials", but that doesn't imply that we can just pour water into it and it will generate anything we want, like a block of gold.etc. I don't have enough knowledge about physics to know exactly what Drexler is saying with respect to the manipulation of atoms, so I retract my statement. Thanks for correcting me.

You're welcome.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This is easy. The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit. If we organize production without capitalists, hence the problem is solved. We don't have to become serfs or slaves living off of a government check. The state doesn't have to bail out the capitalists on a monthly basis with a UBI, keeping capitalism on life support. The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

We work 20 hours weekly, supervising the robots and in return, we get to keep our property (homes, vehicles, personal items, shotguns, and ammo, we can accommodate the rednecks in this new modern society, no problem), we also have a right to be housed if we lack housing, we have a right to one laptop computer, one desktop computer, every three years, and of course, a right to three gallons of milk weekly..etc. If we can work and we meet our obligations to society, by "supervising the robots" 20 hours weekly, we can go to a store and withdraw whatever we have a right to.

If I have a right to two pairs of shoes every two weeks, does that imply that I'm going to get two pairs of shoes every two weeks, for the next two years? No. I personally have about ten pairs of shoes now, and that's enough for me. There are people in society who hoard stuff and they will get two pairs of shoes, every two weeks, even when they have over 150 pairs of shoes. Thankfully, most people aren't like that, but yes there will be hoarders who will fill their closets and their bedrooms, with hundreds of shoes.

Maybe there can be a mechanism in the system that will identify these types of hoarders and will require them to justify to an AI manager or an actual human manager, why they need 100s of pairs of shoes? Any hoarder can get away with it for a while but eventually the system will stop them from hoarding. Will set reasonable limits. Even most wealthy people now don't have hundreds of pairs of shoes (I know a lot of rich people). They might have twenty, thirty pairs, but 100s? No. So in a resource based economy where society produces everything to meet human needs using the latest technology, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living.

There's no need for capitalism in the future, when technology allows us to automate the production, storage and delivery of the products we consume. The logistics and accounting of production can be adequately handled by technology (computers, AI..etc). The central planning department will be run mostly by AI and super-computers, so we will know exactly how to meet all of our consumption needs. Again, no need for capitalism or markets, hence the so-called "unemployment crisis" is a "no-burger". It's not working-class people who are in trouble, it's the capitalists, the billionairs who will mostly need to readjust.

We see these billionaires in interviews saying how the public is in trouble due to a supposed "tech apocalypse" in the future that will render most people completely useless, if not worthless. But no, that's only if we measure value from the point of view of a billionaire capitalist. It's actually the capitalist who need to fear the "tech apocalypse", not the working-class or 95% of the population.

The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

Does this central planning work better than the Russian-gulag-shithole kind of central planning?

 

[bripat9643]

This is easy. The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit. If we organize production without capitalists, hence the problem is solved. We don't have to become serfs or slaves living off of a government check. The state doesn't have to bail out the capitalists on a monthly basis with a UBI, keeping capitalism on life support. The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

We work 20 hours weekly, supervising the robots and in return, we get to keep our property (homes, vehicles, personal items, shotguns, and ammo, we can accommodate the rednecks in this new modern society, no problem), we also have a right to be housed if we lack housing, we have a right to one laptop computer, one desktop computer, every three years, and of course, a right to three gallons of milk weekly..etc. If we can work and we meet our obligations to society, by "supervising the robots" 20 hours weekly, we can go to a store and withdraw whatever we have a right to.

If I have a right to two pairs of shoes every two weeks, does that imply that I'm going to get two pairs of shoes every two weeks, for the next two years? No. I personally have about ten pairs of shoes now, and that's enough for me. There are people in society who hoard stuff and they will get two pairs of shoes, every two weeks, even when they have over 150 pairs of shoes. Thankfully, most people aren't like that, but yes there will be hoarders who will fill their closets and their bedrooms, with hundreds of shoes.

Maybe there can be a mechanism in the system that will identify these types of hoarders and will require them to justify to an AI manager or an actual human manager, why they need 100s of pairs of shoes? Any hoarder can get away with it for a while but eventually the system will stop them from hoarding. Will set reasonable limits. Even most wealthy people now don't have hundreds of pairs of shoes (I know a lot of rich people). They might have twenty, thirty pairs, but 100s? No. So in a resource based economy where society produces everything to meet human needs using the latest technology, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living.

There's no need for capitalism in the future, when technology allows us to automate the production, storage and delivery of the products we consume. The logistics and accounting of production can be adequately handled by technology (computers, AI..etc). The central planning department will be run mostly by AI and super-computers, so we will know exactly how to meet all of our consumption needs. Again, no need for capitalism or markets, hence the so-called "unemployment crisis" is a "no-burger". It's not working-class people who are in trouble, it's the capitalists, the billionairs who will mostly need to readjust.

We see these billionaires in interviews saying how the public is in trouble due to a supposed "tech apocalypse" in the future that will render most people completely useless, if not worthless. But no, that's only if we measure human value from the point of view of a billionaire capitalist who sees most people as commodities to be purchased for eight or twelve hours plus daily for their labor power. It's actually the capitalist who needs to fear the "tech apocalypse", not the working-class or 95% of the population. These rich people think they're going to continue living comfortably in full control of the resources and means of production, while 95% of the population is suffering. Life doesn't work that way. It's not that easy.

View attachment 724264​

It's better for those who are currently in power to start socializing and democratizing production now, before the so-called "tech apocalypse". That will avoid the pitchforks from coming out, a.k.a. a violent revolution.

You can't do that without imposing a totalitarian dictatorship.

Why didn't your scheme work in China or the Soviet Union?

 

[bripat9643]

The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

Does this central planning work better than the Russian-gulag-shithole kind of central planning?

It is the same kind. There is no other kind were the workers supposedly control production.

 

[Red Front]

The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

Does this central planning work better than the Russian-gulag-shithole kind of central planning?

That's just rhetoric Todd, and you're smarter than that. What's the alternative to a resource-based economy, when technology automates production to an extent that it significantly reduces or completely eliminates the capitalist's need for wage labor?

​

It's not scary, it's great. It's not the working class who should fear advanced technology, it's the capitalists who rely on wage labor/paying consumers who are in trouble. We can organize production by employing robots, AI, and automated systems, without the need for money or profits. The value is in human labor and if that human labor is replaced with robots, then that provides human beings with less labor to produce everything they consume. We can all meet our needs without capitalism or capitalists. They want us to believe that we are the ones who should be anxious and worried, but no technology will free humanity, provided we socialize and democratize production.

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's just rhetoric Todd, and you're smarter than that. What's the alternative to a resource-based economy, when technology automates production to an extent that it significantly reduces or completely eliminates the capitalist's need for wage labor?

The Russian-gulag-shithole was real, not rhetoric.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

 

[bripat9643]

That's just rhetoric Todd, and you're smarter than that. What's the alternative to a resource-based economy, when technology automates production to an extent that it significantly reduces or completely eliminates the capitalist's need for wage labor?

Commies have been predicting that for 160 years now.

 

[gipper]

The working class or 95% of the population, takes full control over the means of production, producing everything that we consume to meet our needs rather than for profit.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

The working class takes control of the state and using the latest technology, centrally plans all production, providing everyone with everything they need to live.

Does this central planning work better than the Russian-gulag-shithole kind of central planning?

Big Pharma fucks up all the time. Sometimes their fuck ups kill thousands. Yet they continue to make enormous profits.

Isn’t crony capitalism GREAT!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Big Pharma fucks up all the time. Sometimes their fuck ups kill thousands. Yet they continue to make enormous profits.

Isn’t crony capitalism GREAT!

Big Pharma fucks up all the time. Sometimes their fuck ups kill thousands.

For instance?

 

[gipper]

Big Pharma fucks up all the time. Sometimes their fuck ups kill thousands.

For instance?

Hahahahahaha. Really? You don’t know?

Look up Merck and Vioxx.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hahahahahaha. Really? You don’t know?

Look up Merck and Vioxx.

So without profit, how would we know that a government created Vioxx was fucked up?

 

[Red Front]

The Russian-gulag-shithole was real, not rhetoric.

When you eliminate profit, how do you know you've fucked up?

What does the Russian gulag have to do with what I'm saying about the present state of our economy and how to solve it in the near future? You're resorting to a smoke screen, and gas lighting. Do you believe everything that the US government told you about the USSR? Do you believe every single claim made against the USSR by capitalist-run Western media and academia? I believe you're smarter than that. Listen to what these former CIA agents are admitting to about Western-published "information" (a.k.a propaganda) against communists:

​

There's bullshit in both camps. Everything that you've heard of the USSR, isn't true. Some of it is, and some of it isn't. But this is completely irrelevant, and the only reason you continue to mention the USSR is to avoid discussing economics and how we can best resolve the inevitable crisis that we are facing with the replacement of human wage labor with modern 21st century technology. Your continual appeal to the past supposed crimes of communism assumes that capitalism is..what? Peaceful? Saintly? Doesn't have its own mountain of rotting, stinking corpses?

The gulag was bad, but was it as bad as it has been portrayed by dissidents of the USSR and Western anti-communist polemicists? No. We have inmates here in the US that are serving 1200-year sentences in maximum security prisons that are filled with gangs, drugs, under the most violent and hellish conditions. We have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and we're only about 4.5% of the world's population. There are lobbyists right now bribing politicians to pass more laws making more things illegal, in order to increase our prison population. We have privately run, for profit corporations that make money off of the government when people go to prison. They get paid well, for every inmate that is incarcerated.

Again, what should the American people do when the capitalists (3% of the population) don't need to hire human wage labor due to advanced 21st century technology? What's your solution to the massive unemployment and destitution that's going to create? How are you going to solve the problem of tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of unemployed Americans and their children going to bed hungry?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What does the Russian gulag have to do with what I'm saying about the present state of our economy and how to solve it in the near future? You're resorting to a smoke screen, and gas lighting. Do you believe everything that the US government told you about the USSR? Do you believe every single claim made against the USSR by capitalist-run Western media and academia? I believe you're smarter than that. Listen to what these former CIA agents are admitting to about Western-published "information" (a.k.a propaganda) against communists:

​

There's bullshit in both camps. Everything that you've heard of the USSR, isn't true. Some of it is, and some of it isn't. But this is completely irrelevant, and the only reason you continue to mention the USSR is to avoid discussing economics and how we can best resolve the inevitable crisis that we are facing with the replacement of human wage labor with modern 21st century technology. Your continual appeal to the past supposed crimes of communism assumes that capitalism is..what? Peaceful? Saintly? Doesn't have its own mountain of rotting, stinking corpses?

The gulag was bad, but was it as bad as it has been portrayed by dissidents of the USSR and Western anti-communist polemicists? No. We have inmates here in the US that are serving 1200-year sentences in maximum security prisons that are filled with gangs, drugs, under the most violent and hellish conditions. We have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and we're only about 4.5% of the world's population. There are lobbyists right now bribing politicians to pass more laws making more things illegal, in order to increase our prison population. We have privately run, for profit corporations that make money off of the government when people go to prison. They get paid well, for every inmate that is incarcerated.

Again, what should the American people do when the capitalists (3% of the population) don't need to hire human wage labor due to advanced 21st century technology? What's your solution?

What does the Russian gulag have to do with what I'm saying about the present state of our economy and how to solve it in the near future?

You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs, eh comrade?

Everything that you've heard of the USSR, isn't true.

Did they enslave half of Europe for over 40 years?

the only reason you continue to mention the USSR is to avoid discussing economics

How can I discuss your love of communist economics without discussing the failure of
the commie shitholes that implemented communist economics?

The gulag was bad, but was it as bad as it has been portrayed by dissidents of the USSR and Western anti-communist polemicists? No.

You have any books written by people who survived the gulag who explained it wasn't so bad?

We have inmates here in the US that are serving 1200-year sentences in maximum security prisons that are filled with gangs, drugs, under the most violent and hellish conditions.

They aren't serving 1200 year sentences for criticizing Stalin?
Are they dying of exposure or starvation?

What's your solution?

It's not asking communist idiots for their input, that's for sure.

 

[Red Front]

What does the Russian gulag have to do with what I'm saying about the present state of our economy and how to solve it in the near future?

You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs, eh comrade?

Everything that you've heard of the USSR, isn't true.

Did they enslave half of Europe for over 40 years?

the only reason you continue to mention the USSR is to avoid discussing economics

How can I discuss your love of communist economics without discussing the failure of
the commie shitholes that implemented communist economics?

The gulag was bad, but was it as bad as it has been portrayed by dissidents of the USSR and Western anti-communist polemicists? No.

You have any books written by people who survived the gulag who explained it wasn't so bad?

We have inmates here in the US that are serving 1200-year sentences in maximum security prisons that are filled with gangs, drugs, under the most violent and hellish conditions.

They aren't serving 1200 year sentences for criticizing Stalin?
Are they dying of exposure or starvation?

What's your solution?

It's not asking communist idiots for their input, that's for sure.

You're the idiot for believing all of the Western propaganda bullshit against the USSR and flippantly dismissing the question with "Oh I'm not answering your question because you're a commie".

Again, how do you resolve the inevitable crises of advanced 21st century technology replacing wage labor? Give us your capitalist analysis and "solution".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're the idiot for believing all of the Western propaganda bullshit against the USSR and flippantly dismissing the question with "Oh I'm not answering your question because you're a commie".

Again, how do you resolve the inevitable crises of advanced 21st century technology replacing wage labor? Give us your capitalist analysis and "solution".

You're the idiot for believing all of the Western propaganda bullshit against the USSR

Did they enslave half of Europe for over 40 years?

Again, how do you resolve the inevitable crises of advanced 21st century technology replacing wage labor?

Ask me again when it actually happens.